Retirement visa refused in Chiang Mai

[JustAnotherHun]

6 minutes ago, crazykopite said:

 

Why not get a 90 day visa as you need to have the 800,000 in for 3 months before then 3 months after which then reduces to 400,000

It is 2 months before and 3 after

[zoza]

4 hours ago, roobaa01 said:

the amounts out of jomtien as of yesterday 18k, 23k plus 500 baht after 90 days.

wbr

roobaa01

Thai visa Centre

they advertise online now my face book page,

I have had ten messages in the last month

via Lite. 22.000 baht one year retirement visa.

they deal with all IO in Thailand anywhere.

after four messages it went up to 24.000 baht 

three days to complete but you have to have

an I-O Visa and two pictures.

some crack down. as people say, crackdown on the honest retirees.

[holy cow cm]

39 minutes ago, molen02 said:

Yes mate I know that. It would be interesting in about 3 months when apply for 90 day non O if they going to make my live difficult? I will make sure that I will have for 2 months 800.000 baht in the account before I apply so they won't have any excuse and that my TM 30 is okay. But for now I'm flying to Sydney on Friday getting away from this horrible air, going to Sydney for fresh air is a contradiction in terms, and for 1 month I can forget about CM immigration.

Good luck. 

[Thaidream]

19 hours ago, Sheryl said:

They will nto accept 1099s. annual statements from foreign financial institutions etc etc.  Only and solely, proof of transfer of funds from abroad to a Thai bank account as evidenced by Thai bank statement. Don't waste your time getting any other documentation together.

I am well aware of what the  New Police report says.  My point being that  TI has veered away from  actually having a verifiable income to a system in which income is secondary.   Sending 65K per month into a Thai bank account does not prove income- it simply states an applicant has 65 K from any source to send  into a bank account.

 

The only thing I can do is comply and at the same time send a long letter to my Embassy reminding them of the chaos they have created by their actions which were totally unwarranted.

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Sending 65K per month into a Thai bank account does not prove income- it simply states an applicant has 65 K from any source to send  into a bank account.

It doesn't prove anything at all, you could just send the 65k back and forth every month.

But that isn't what immigration really want, they want you to pay an agent.

Then you don't need any money at all apart from the fees.

[JackThompson]

58 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

There's only about 4/5 offices served by an agent.

That's hardly all foreigners.

Phuket, Pattaya/Jomtien, Chiang Mai, Udon Thanni, Phuket, Bangkok.  That list probably covers 90% of foreigners here, but there may be more agents in other areas I've missed - perhaps Samui? (don't recall a quote/report, though).  Reports indicate some others operate with brown-envelopes direct.

[NancyL]

22 hours ago, NancyL said:

This inspired me to check the website of my private pension provider.  They just send an annual 1099 tax document.  Fortunately, I can logon to the pension provider's website and printout what looks like a paystub for each month, complete with a color logo of the company.  I guess that's what I'll do before my next  retirement extension for each month to provide something that looks like "proof of monthly pension income".  Fortunately, it's in English.  I can't believe that CM Imm. are so childish as to want something that looks like this as proof.

Let me clarify that my pension is indeed deposited into a Thai bank.  Based on the OP's post, it seemed he also had his pensions deposited into a Thai bank but CM Imm wanted to see evidence of the source and his annual statement from the pension provider, in Dutch wasn't acceptable.  Like him, I simply get an annual 1099 and not a monthly statement, which is why I went fishing online to see what my pension provider could produce.  It's a really nifty pay stub, complete with a nice company logo.  Looks like a non-negotiable check.  That should impress them at CM Imm.

 

Thanks for the tip about having the pension deposited into a "clean" account that isn't used for any other activity.  When I did my previous retirement extension (before March 1st), I hadn't started the pension and one of the accounts I used for the 800,000 baht was a fairly active account and it obviously gave the I/O heartburn to figure out the low balance for the previous three months.

[Tanoshi]

59 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I'm not so poor that I have to worry about 10bht.

I guess that's why you're on the farm in Issan.

 

Nothing wrong with my Isaan farmhouse.

 

 

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

p, you got it.

'Verification' is authenticating a document and it's contents as genuine.

'Certification' is merely witnessing and signing a statement or document.

 

When you submit copies of your documents to TI for an extension, your required to sign those documents.

You are 'self certifying' by your signature they are a copy of the original document.

 

Other Embassies continue to issue Income letters for TI, by certifying (signing) a statement they have viewed documents of xxxxxx showing an income of xxxxxx.

If TI had remained consistent with their demand of 'verification', ever Embassy would have now ceased the service

A perfect explanation .  IMO it completely repudiates the idea that the  4 Embassies cannot do it.  They simply refuse to do it for reason or reasons within their own  structure but if I had to guess it centers around  getting rid of a task they do not like.   A real business audit- would  point to a large loss of income which makes no sense  for a business unit that is supposed to be recovering their costs of operation.

 

Had their really been a huge push back from Thai Imm indicating verification - no Embassy would be doing it. Even the new police order uses the term certification.

 

 

[Tanoshi]

14 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Phuket, Pattaya/Jomtien, Chiang Mai, Udon Thanni, Phuket, Bangkok.  That list probably covers 90% of foreigners here,

You need to get out and about more Jack.

Thousands of expats in rural areas of Thailand.

Every week there are more and more expats moving out of Phuket and Pattaya in particular.

[Tanoshi]

3 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

A perfect explanation .  IMO it completely repudiates the idea that the  4 Embassies cannot do it. 

No Embassy can verify income documents ….. end of, due to Data Protection laws.

[johnmcc6]

My Australian pension is (for some reason  known only to them ), sent first to city Bank Bangkok then forwarded to B K Bank in Chiangmai. As the bank statements ( for one year)showed money from Thailand not from oversees The bank  here said they could not give me letter saying money was from pension . Immigration would not accept letter from Center link with government letterhead showing amount of pension. Fortunately I had time to post a bank check to city bank in Bangkok   1000 baht to supply a statement showing all twelve deposits came from Australia as pension payments from Oz. I had to post a bank check and when the letter arrived attach  it to the 12 months bank statements from B K B. City bank does not accept money transfers so it must be by post. If your deposit book shows letter BTN next to  the deosit the money was transferred by a receiving bank then sent to you after conversion to Thai  Baht.Check it out in time for your visa renewal. It may add at least a week or more .

[Rambo]

22 hours ago, WalkingOrders said:

I recently renewed using income method . The thai bank provided 12 bankstatements, signed, and a letter showing all foreign incoming deposits also signed, I also brought my bankbook updated that day. This was completed ay main office Bangkok, my bank is Bangkok bank.

Did the Bangkok Main Office provide statements, letter and bankbook updates on the same day or did they require advance notice. 

[Thaidream]

2 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

No Embassy can verify income documents ….. end of, due to Data Protection laws.

I completely agree- maybe my wording was unclear-  Thai Imm at one point may have been using the term 'Verification'- and now uses the term 'Certification' in the new Police Order.

 

IMO Thai Imm has backed off from what allegedly set off the 4 Embassies to eliminate the letter.  Since everyone agrees no one can verify but  Embassies still certify  it would make sense for the  4 Embassies to again  start the letters again but with altered wording.  As I mentioned in another post- I will keep reminding the US Embassy of their folly .

[malibukid]

21 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

Retirement visa extensions are being rejected everyday in any number of Thai Immigration offices over some of the most idiotic reasons.  As for the American retirees, the American Embassy and Consulate are pretending it is business as usual.  Of course for us retirees who have to deal with the new anti-Western Thai Immigration staff we know better.

 

The ring leader of the American Embassy circus could put an immediate stop to all this unnecessary nonsense by just issuing "Income Verification Letters."  Apparently, this is too much to ask.  After all, it would require their clerks busy warming seats until their next duty assignment to actually do something.

 

I am so disappointed with how the American Embassy has abandoned American retirees who call Thailand their home.

 

Actually, this is common amid federal employees to do nothing when presented with decision making.  If you don't do anything you can't be blamed for making a wrong decision.  This will be interesting to watch as this visa problem worsens during the year. ????

 

 

  

diplomatic relations with Thailand have soured.  whatever happened to the "special relationship" between Thailand and the U.S.  i think Thailands interest has shifted to China.

[Thaidream]

3 minutes ago, malibukid said:

iplomatic relations with Thailand have soured.  whatever happened to the "special relationship" between Thailand and the U.S.  i think Thailands interest has shifted to China.

Yes- and also with the EU; and UK as well as Australia.   Rather interesting that the majority of expats affected by the Immigration  circus are from-  yep- you guess it  the UK; USA; and Australia although I firmly believe if they were still issuing the letters they would still be accepted.  

[malibukid]

5 hours ago, SammyJ said:

Unfortunately not, CM immigration, regardless of whether you were one of those that got an income affidavit, still want you to provide the supporting bank documents--letter from bank, bank statements showing international transfers, and your bank book.

 

I just applied and received my retirement extension last month---I had made one of the last appts late December 2018 at US Consulate to obtain an income affidavit (as I had done the last time) as I was told that they would be accepted as usual for six months.  Well, i discovered, much to my disappointment, that it appears in Bkk and other places, they are accepting the affidavits if you have one, just as they had before, but in us lucky CM folks, NO SUCH LUCK!

 

I was able to get my bank to provide the bank statements showing international transfers of at least 65,000 baht for the last 12 months, plus had a letter from the bank and my bank book--so, the expense and time of getting the affidavit proved unnecessary, and I was advised to go elsewhere, then, to get my extension, but as I had the documents, it was unnecessary and it also was uncertain if other immigration offices outside CM would accept an affidavit from the US Consulate in Chiang Mai.

 

Also, Nancy L--i may have misunderstood and you did not mean to demonstrate the monthly deposits into a US Bank??  I have been told that the monthly deposits must be into a Thai bank and shown as an international transfer---further, I have been told, that CM immigration now, or soon, will want from you bank statements that only list the international transfers, no other transactions---my monthly statements submitted, and provided to me by bkk bank listed ALL transactions for the month.  I had to argue with my branch of the bkk bank to get even that--usually, my branch had been very friendly and helpful, but that day, i was unlucky enough to get a rep that i had never seen before and was very abrupt, rude, and unhelpful and insisted she could NOT provide me any statements, even for a fee--ultimately, i had to ask for the manager and it got sorted, but really irritated me.

same thing at BK Bank.  in the States they are happy to see me and it's hello how are you doing.  personal service.  what's up with the banking staff here anyway?  we are doing them a big favor.

[fforest1]

18 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I completely agree- maybe my wording was unclear-  Thai Imm at one point may have been using the term 'Verification'- and now uses the term 'Certification' in the new Police Order.

 

IMO Thai Imm has backed off from what allegedly set off the 4 Embassies to eliminate the letter.  Since everyone agrees no one can verify but  Embassies still certify  it would make sense for the  4 Embassies to again  start the letters again but with altered wording.  As I mentioned in another post- I will keep reminding the US Embassy of their folly .

The gears at the embassy level turn very slowly...But the 50 dollars they were making for 2 or 3 minutes work times XXXXX times every year must be leaving some one in a uncomfortable position of having to explain budget shortfalls.....So maybe there is hope...

Edited March 13, 2019 by fforest1

[marcusarelus]

5 minutes ago, malibukid said:

same thing at BK Bank.  in the States they are happy to see me and it's hello how are you doing.  personal service.  what's up with the banking staff here anyway?  we are doing them a big favor.

I think its been mentioned 20 or 30 times go to Bangkok Bank @Kad Suan Kaew

[Liverpudlian]

23 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The problem is with the office you are dealing with. 

I lived there and a discreet envelope with joint smile STILL RULES.

[CMNightRider]

19 minutes ago, malibukid said:

diplomatic relations with Thailand have soured.  whatever happened to the "special relationship" between Thailand and the U.S.  i think Thailands interest has shifted to China.

I believe you are 100% correct. ????

[hargri]

On 3/12/2019 at 4:01 PM, ubonjoe said:

Are your transfers shown as coming from abroad?

You can use a proof for you annual pension to prove the source of you income.

Do you have an affidavit from the the Dutch embassy to prove your income?

Hi Joe 

I changed my pension transfer destination from SCB to Bangkok bank on hearing that they would be listed as foreign transactions (FTT). I have made four transfers to Bangkok bank since December. Unfortunately only two show as foreign transfers. The others show as 'Interbank transfer via SMART'. I don't have an affidavit from the embassy. Are you saying that showing immigration my UK pension documents will suffice to prove the source of funds?

[Tanoshi]

30 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I completely agree- maybe my wording was unclear-  Thai Imm at one point may have been using the term 'Verification'- and now uses the term 'Certification' in the new Police Order.

 

IMO Thai Imm has backed off from what allegedly set off the 4 Embassies to eliminate the letter.  Since everyone agrees no one can verify but  Embassies still certify  it would make sense for the  4 Embassies to again  start the letters again but with altered wording.  As I mentioned in another post- I will keep reminding the US Embassy of their folly .

Rather than the Embassies reinstate some form of letter for Immigration, I believe the opposite could happen and TI stop accepting Embassy letters.

1. It's clear that certain expats were making false claims on their affidavits/ statutory declarations.

2. It's now becoming clear that many using the Embassy letter are not in fact transferring the amounts as specified under the Police Orders.

 

From 2020, we could see only Thai bank statements (which TI can verify) being the only acceptable form of proof of income.

[CMNightRider]

9 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

The gears at the embassy level turn very slowly...But the 50 dollars they were making for 2 or 3 minutes work times XXXXX times every year must be leaving some one in a uncomfortable position of having to explain budget shortfalls.....So maybe there is hope...

It appears to be a void in leadership at the embassy.  I'm not sure what part they don't understand, the easy $50 a letter or some sort of duty to assist American retirees living in Thailand.  

 

Whatever their malfunction, these people are a great disappointment to me.  Personally, I would not want to be a member of their team.  They display little to no regard for American retirees. ???? 

[jesimps]

23 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Argue it/complicate it all you want.

 

I plan on just keeping the 800 k in an account no need to fool with the time or 400 k.

Cannot think of a simpler way to do things here so easy peasy.

 

And yes, in my mid 60's I have no problem letting the 800 k sit in an account. Unlike some,  I actually planned my financial life for many years so absolutely no worries.

 

 

 

 

Aren't you a good boy!!!

Others too planned their financial life using the income method, but through no fault of their own find it difficult to prove to TI that the money's coming from abroad.

[Tanoshi]

7 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

It appears to be a void in leadership at the embassy.  I'm not sure what part they don't understand, the easy $50 a letter or some sort of duty to assist American retirees living in Thailand.  

 

Whatever their malfunction, these people are a great disappointment to me.  Personally, I would not want to be a member of their team.  They display little to no regard for American retirees. ???? 

If the Ambassador of an Embassy could verify my private Pension with my Pension provider, confirming the date of letter, the annual and monthly payment amounts due, I'd be suing my Pension provider for breach of sharing my personal information which is protected under the Data Protection Act.

[fforest1]

4 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

If the Ambassador of an Embassy could verify my private Pension with my Pension provider, confirming the date of letter, the annual and monthly payment amounts due, I'd be suing my Pension provider for breach of sharing my personal information which is protected under the Data Protection Act.

I guess you would have to sue yourself for asking the embassy to verify your pension...

Edited March 13, 2019 by fforest1

[parryhandy]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

Nothing wrong with my Isaan farmhouse.

 

 

ermm this house is in Mexico

https://www.elegantmexico.com/blog-travel-tips-villa-stay/

Edited March 13, 2019 by parryhandy

[mikecha]

Hi  you can mail or phone the zvb bank  social verzekering bank 

also u can go th there site it is in all languages  

www.svb .nl    gives all the info about overseas payments and what u need also contact info tel nr might be worth trying i have every month a statment on the bank from them saying pension 

[Tanoshi]

7 minutes ago, parryhandy said:

ermm this house is in Mexico

https://www.elegantmexico.com/blog-travel-tips-villa-stay/

Ssssssh.

Damn, now you've spoiled it.