Retirement visa refused in Chiang Mai

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, CMNightRider said:

I certainly appreciate your concern but I do have all my facts in order.  Did they let you know where your next duty assignment will be yet?  You will have some good stories to tell your co-workers about your time in Thailand.  Good luck to you ????  

You still can't quite grasp why the Brits had to quit the business, do you? Please make a little more effort to understand, so we can have an intelligent dialogue.

 

And, yeah, sticking up for our consular folks here in Thailand does seem out of character, what with being retired Air Force -- and we hated State Dept folks in Vietnam, as they had no real understanding of the efficacy of napalm.

 

But, I'm forced to take their side in this argument -- as long as the other side is represented by you. By the way -- do you have any tattoos?  Just trying to picture whom I'm talking with.

 

 

[Tanoshi]

2 minutes ago, molen02 said:

I don't think you understood what I've written because you state the complete opposite of what has happened to me and that's why started this discussion. They refused to renew my visa because I could not supply them with overseas documentation of where the money was coming from. The Bangkok bank letter and statements are not enough.

If your BKK statements provided proof of regular monthly overseas transfers, then they should have been accepted.

As I stated before, you can request a 'Confirmation letter of International Funds Transfer' for the previous 12 months from Bangkok Bank.

Why haven't you done that! 

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, CMNightRider said:

There were a very small percentage of retirees who were less than truthful about their monthly income, so there was no loophole.

If even one could lie about their income, it was because there was a loophole.

[CMNightRider]

11 minutes ago, JimGant said:

You still can't quite grasp why the Brits had to quit the business, do you? Please make a little more effort to understand, so we can have an intelligent dialogue.

 

And, yeah, sticking up for our consular folks here in Thailand does seem out of character, what with being retired Air Force -- and we hated State Dept folks in Vietnam, as they had no real understanding of the efficacy of napalm.

 

But, I'm forced to take their side in this argument -- as long as the other side is represented by you. By the way -- do you have any tattoos?  Just trying to picture whom I'm talking with.

 

 

I'm not concerned with what the Brits do or don't do.  I'm concerned with what the American Embassy could be doing and isn't.

[Tanoshi]

3 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

I'm concerned with what the American Embassy could be doing and isn't.

Well they can and will be having afternoon coffee in about 30 minutes.

[JimGant]

18 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

I'm not concerned with what the Brits do or don't do.  I'm concerned with what the American Embassy could be doing and isn't.

You're saying the US could be doing what the Brits had been doing, but can no longer do, because the Thais said that what the Brits were doing wasn't solid enough to confirm an applicant's stated income, but that the US could do exactly as the Brits had done, looking at Social Security statements (or equivalent), even tho', by Thai definition, this would not be solid enough to authenticate income, but you're saying the Thais will give the US special permission to verify income by means less strict than required of the Brits, because the Brits demanded reparations from the Thais after World War II, but the US didn't........?

 

I see.

[balo]

On 3/12/2019 at 5:41 PM, bkk6060 said:

Guys in Pattaya telling me 30 to 35,000 b now

20000 still

 

[ubonjoe]

Some baiting inflammatory posts and replies to them have been removed.

[Thailand]

On 3/13/2019 at 5:35 PM, Tanoshi said:

Ssssssh.

Damn, now you've spoiled it.

 

The farm is behind it I believe? ????

[EricTh]

6 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

.  Please get real about people from 100 different countries showing up at Thai Immigration with bank statements, and stop with the faked documents.

 

 

How many countries do you think Thai immigration have to deal with for retirees ?

100 is just a rough figure but it's certainly not 3 countries like USA, UK, Australia.

[EricTh]

10 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

 

 

Well that's the rule, 65K per month, for 12 months.

You don't have to agree or like it, but it is what it is.

 

Frankly there is still a loophole in the 65 k per month.

 

Unlike the 800k method where you have to keep a minimum of 800k for x month, 400k for x months, there is no minimum for the monthly transfer method.

 

That means you can transfer in on 1st every month, and a few days before 1st , transfer back to the home country, then transfer in the same money back.

 

It is recycling the money. Immigration hasn't closed this loophole yet.

Edited March 14, 2019 by EricTh

[CMNightRider]

7 minutes ago, EricTh said:

Frankly there is still a loophole in the 65 k per month.

 

Unlike the 800k method where you have to keep a minimum of 800k for x month, 400k for x months, there is no minimum for the monthly transfer method.

 

That means you can transfer in on 1st every month, and a few days before 1st , transfer back to the home country, then transfer in the same money back.

 

It is recycling the money. Immigration hasn't closed this loophole yet.

What a waste of time and money.  ????

[JohnnyBD]

1 hour ago, EricTh said:

Frankly there is still a loophole in the 65 k per month.

 

Unlike the 800k method where you have to keep a minimum of 800k for x month, 400k for x months, there is no minimum for the monthly transfer method.

 

That means you can transfer in on 1st every month, and a few days before 1st , transfer back to the home country, then transfer in the same money back.

 

It is recycling the money. Immigration hasn't closed this loophole yet.

I'm sure some people are already trying to figure out the cheapest way to recycle. There doesn't appear to be any wording in the new police order regarding recycling. So, if someone has no other way, then they will probably do it so they can continue living here. I find that very sad...

Edited March 14, 2019 by JohnnyBD

[JackThompson]

9 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

If your BKK statements provided proof of regular monthly overseas transfers, then they should have been accepted.

As I stated before, you can request a 'Confirmation letter of International Funds Transfer' for the previous 12 months from Bangkok Bank.

Why haven't you done that! 

Your a missing it.  Immigration are asking him to show source-documents of the funds-origin, In Addition To proof of international transfers from his Thai Bank (which he has).

 

At my local office, I had an embassy-letter plus proof of the money as international-xfers last year.  They wanted proof the income (which I could already demonstrate being transferred) was "from a govt pension."   This is often how they block marriage-based extensions.
 

2 hours ago, EricTh said:

That means you can transfer in on 1st every month, and a few days before 1st , transfer back to the home country, then transfer in the same money back.

You'd need to live on something - but, yes, the excess beyond what it actually costs to live here could be sent back and forth, wasting fees each way.

 

53 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

There doesn't appear to be any wording in the new police order regarding recycling

You are supposed to have the min-income.  As that is not "net after every expense" income, you could still pay passport-country bills out of what you send here.  But, if you don't have the total-income at the min-level, it's clear this is not acceptable. 

 

Some will claim this is why they are asking for further proof in the form of "pension letter" docs, and similar.  But, in reality, anyone faking the income would fake the docs, also.  And now that many don't need to swear under-oath to their passport-country officials to do it (scary and dangerous w/ a Felony-charge, loss of passport, etc), it could be more common - except for the PITA of all the transferring. 

[EricTh]

8 hours ago, JackThompson said:

 

You'd need to live on something - but, yes, the excess beyond what it actually costs to live here could be sent back and forth, wasting fees each way.

 

 

Anyway, it's a loophole that I know some retirees exploit. Big Jok might close this loophole, we never know.

Edited March 15, 2019 by EricTh

[phuketrichard]

17 hours ago, balo said:

20000 still

 

Agent confirmed:
23,000 Baht in Phuket

15,000 Baht in CM

BUT no idea how they will swing a bank book showing 8000,000 for3 months and 400,000 year round on ur next extension.

[zoza]

On ‎3‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 4:11 PM, Tanoshi said:

You need to get out and about more Jack.

Thousands of expats in rural areas of Thailand.

Every week there are more and more expats moving out of Phuket and Pattaya in particular.

I travel to rural areas a couple of times a year, for maybe 14 years always have been expats but while these numbers seem to be declining?

the agents are available everywhere and advertise by word of mouth

where as your city (pattaya ect) advertise online, for all to see...

''we deal with all I O in all areas '' FACEBOOK'' 3 days completion

For retirement visa. but must have an IO VISA and two photo's.   

[Thaidream]

On 3/14/2019 at 2:10 PM, JimGant said:

You still can't quite grasp why the Brits had to quit the business, do you? Please make a little more effort to understand, so we can have an intelligent dialogue.

 

And, yeah, sticking up for our consular folks here in Thailand does seem out of character, what with being retired Air Force -- and we hated State Dept folks in Vietnam, as they had no real understanding of the efficacy of napalm.

The Us/UK/AUS Embassies did not have to stop issuing Embassy Letters because the Thai Immigration informed them comply or stop. IMO  Never happened that way.

 

Thai Imm asked in a May meeting 2018 that all Embassies verify the income.  To my knowledge no one can or was verifying anything as to this as they  would have to go direct to the source and obtain written verification.  It cannot be done due to privacy laws.

 

Instead the 3 English speaking Embassies mentioned above saw this request as a way to stop issuing letters they simply did not  want to issue.  They could have very easily - issued a document  in which the applicant  wrote- I,  John Does, am self certifying my monthly income as   XXXX amount.  The applicant presented   letters from  - name of source- in the amount of XXX amount.   The applicant has sworn under penalty of perjury  that the information presented is true . 

 

The Embassy and applicant sign the document and it was and would still be accepted by Thai immigration.   They are being accepted now and in addition any citizen of the 78 outher Embassies can use  a letter and it will be accepted. 

 

The new Police Order lists the fact that Embassy Letters can be used to prove income.  Thai Immigration never said they will not accept the letters.  Reports coming in from various Thai Imm sites also prove this although in some cases Thai Imm wants to view pension letters or other to prove one has a sustainable income stream that matches what your Embassy letter states.

 

If you go back and pull up the  letters of announcement from the UK/US and AUS Embassies-  the letters of explanation are almost identical- meaning they undoubtedly collaborated on their justification for the  stopping the letters and in each explanation there is a statement giving the real reason- we just do not want to do it any longer.  Read between the lines and it will be evident

 

 

Edited March 16, 2019 by Thaidream

[malibukid]

On 3/14/2019 at 9:17 AM, EricTh said:

I've been reading  a lot of rejected cases lately. The safest way although painful is to leave 800k in a Thai bank.

 

I am still confused about the monthly income method on how to prove it to immigration.

 

I don't think immigration is going to look through and verify foreign bank statements written in 100 different languages. They already have trouble with English proficiency.

 

The exodus of expats have started.

if you have a pension why risk 25k USD.  you can submit a SS document and deposit the difference. your exposure is thus limited. EZPZ

[Ebumbu]

Have you considered temporarily "moving" to another, more relaxed province and extending there? Stay a month and move back? CM and Phuket have most arbitrary and capricious regulations, it seems. You could probably succeed in Bangkok or Sakon Nowhere. Or Jomtien.