How "bad" is the offseason for businesses ?

[BigBlueHH]

Considering open a food / eatery business in Hua Hin and trying to understand the impact of the off season in cities in Thailand other then Bangkok. Appreciate any input 

[NCC1701A]

i have lived in Hua Hin for five years. I have seen numerous all Thai owned business crash after about six months. restaurants and bars

 

the thing i hate the most is some of the best new farang owned places to eat close within months. 

 

when the snow birds leave and the farang tourist leave the place gets REALLY QUIET.

 

forget chinese they have a few of their favorite places and that is it.

 

i would spend at least one year here to get the idea for best locations and business cycle.

 

what kind of food are you doing?

 

and you need a really good cook even for a simple breakfast. many UK trained Thai ladies have their small restaurants around town. Married to farangs.

 

 

Edited March 20, 2019 by NCC1701A

[Lacessit]

Chiang Mai is definitely affected by off-season. The less palatable restaurants struggle. My caddie was saying her income has halved since two months ago.

I did a big loop through Issan in low season some years ago. I was parking my car at 500-room hotels which only had 2 - 3 rooms occupied. I doubt the Chinese are making up that kind of shortfall.

 

[BigBlueHH]

9 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

what kind of food are you doing?

Italian

 

[Albert Postlethwaite]

I Live in PKK 80 km south of Hua Hin from end of songkhran till late November town is more or less dead as snowbirds leave  a few Thai at weekend but thats it

Edited March 20, 2019 by Albert Postlethwaite

[NCC1701A]

1 minute ago, BigBlueHH said:

 

towards on the high end of the scale is Carlo Italian Restaurant. Then many much more casual pizza pasta places near the Hilton tourist area.

 

I know where to get a great Spaghetti carbonara out of a cart for 60 baht. 

 

I really think you should come here in June and look around in the evenings. it can be slow. 

[KMartinHandyman]

towards on the high end of the scale is Carlo Italian Restaurant. Then many much more casual pizza pasta places near the Hilton tourist area.
 
I know where to get a great Spaghetti carbonara out of a cart for 60 baht. 
 
I really think you should come here in June and look around in the evenings. it can be slow. 

Yup food here is a tough business. I can get this ฿60 carbonara topped with bacon sitting down as an appetizer before the salmon steak arrives.

[Nyezhov]

46 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Chiang Mai is definitely affected by off-season. The less palatable restaurants struggle. My caddie was saying her income has halved since two months ago.

I did a big loop through Issan in low season some years ago. I was parking my car at 500-room hotels which only had 2 - 3 rooms occupied. I doubt the Chinese are making up that kind of shortfall.

 

Funny, I stayed in a Resort in Lopburi that was huge, brand new, gorgeous, cheap...and empty. Sometime I wonder how these places make any money. Like the Indian Restraunts on Sukky...they are like morgues.

[NCC1701A]

14 minutes ago, KMartinHandyman said:

Yup food here is a tough business. I can get this ฿60 carbonara topped with bacon sitting down as an appetizer before the salmon steak arrives.

i had heart pains just looking at that. 

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, BigBlueHH said:

Considering open a food / eatery business in Hua Hin and trying to understand the impact of the off season in cities in Thailand

In our village the only restaurants that make any money are the ones that live there and have no rent to pay.

There are too many of them anyway IMO.

There doesn't seem to be a quiet season this year so far for us, bloody foreigners everywhere.  ????

[dabhand]

3 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Funny, I stayed in a Resort in Lopburi that was huge, brand new, gorgeous, cheap...and empty. Sometime I wonder how these places make any money. Like the Indian Restraunts on Sukky...they are like morgues.

Quite possible that the Indian Restos are used to convert black money (proceeds from money lending, etc) into the 'honest' variety. Easily done by reporting rather impressive income figures for tax purposes, pay the appropriate tax on these 'earnings' and, hey presto, the dosh becomes nice and clean.

Maybe same for other locations / enterprises. But don't dig too deep - certainly less than 6 feet!!

[NCC1701A]

1 hour ago, BigBlueHH said:

trying to understand the impact of the off season in cities in Thailand other then Bangkok.

if I had to quantify it I would say Hua Hin eateries experience a 60-70% decrease in business between May 1 until Oct 1.

[NCC1701A]

29 minutes ago, KMartinHandyman said:

I can get this ฿60 carbonara topped with bacon sitting down as an appetizer before the salmon steak arrives.

is that HH? where?

[Nyezhov]

31 minutes ago, KMartinHandyman said:

I can get this ฿60 carbonara topped with bacon sitting down as an appetizer before the salmon steak arrives.

The carbonara looks good, I wouldnt eat much of the Frankensalmon here

[from the home of CC]

One of things I love most about HH, the off season. Very quiet except on the weekends when people come from Bangkok. If it was me I'd be adding a Thai slant to the menu to capture some of off season crowd which could be adjusted as the tourists came back. Not an easy way to make a living in my opinion.

 

[KMartinHandyman]

is that HH? where?

Muang Phon, Khon Kaen. Young Thai guy runs a steak shop with American cowboy country music and theme. Craziest thing to see all Thai customers and he has very limited English.

[KMartinHandyman]

The carbonara looks good, I wouldnt eat much of the Frankensalmon here

I’ll take my chances with the grilled salmon versus everything else fried or deep fried the Thais eat. I’m not trying to live forever, Thailand’s become too expensive. [emoji3]

[Rc2702]

I think restaurants need to diversify from one location to survive.

 

Not all can do this but some can go mobile and cash in on the walking street type trade.

 

Italian food like lasagne and pastas are being sold at our sat market and they surprisingly do a roaring trade.

 

It's noticeable, surprising as it's not even that good but it's a 45baht 7x7x4cm piece of lasagne.

 

Burgers are killing it too on these markets as well as just chips with a cheesy sauce.

 

The above appear to be mainstays of the market now. 

 

All these types of businesses keep their range pretty focussed.

 

 

[champers]

I know of some restos that have just closed down in low season and re-opened in high season. You must make enough in high time to be able to do that. It seems a tough ask to me but it must be doable.

[BestB]

You said Italian , so you can count Thai out . Will you be targeting expats? If so that means top quality and cheap prices otherwise they will whinge and complain and not come .

 

expats for some reason expect top quality food at rock bottom prices.

 

if your target is tourists, then all you have is few months of trade followd by triple the months of emptiness, meaning you have to support the biz which also means you have to charge high enough prices and be busy enough in high season to survive in low. 

 

If you plan to target both and offer “cheapish” pricing and good quality then then you need to be steadily busy.

 

I can  tell you half of Pattaya long and well established restaurants are up for sale

[Brunolem]

19 hours ago, KMartinHandyman said:

Yup food here is a tough business. I can get this ฿60 carbonara topped with bacon sitting down as an appetizer before the salmon steak arrives.

I can't see the sour cream, which partly explains the low price. 

 

Yet, carbonara without sour cream, lots of it, ain't no carbonara... 

[Brunolem]

8 hours ago, Rc2702 said:

I think restaurants need to diversify from one location to survive.

 

Not all can do this but some can go mobile and cash in on the walking street type trade.

 

Italian food like lasagne and pastas are being sold at our sat market and they surprisingly do a roaring trade.

 

It's noticeable, surprising as it's not even that good but it's a 45baht 7x7x4cm piece of lasagne.

 

Burgers are killing it too on these markets as well as just chips with a cheesy sauce.

 

The above appear to be mainstays of the market now. 

 

All these types of businesses keep their range pretty focussed.

 

 

The problem is always the same: small Thai food vendors don't bother to calculate their production costs. 

 

They sell at a "feel good" price, generally below cost, and after a few months they go belly up. 

 

Yet, in the meantime, competitors have to follow suit, and also sell at too low prices, or risking to not sell at all. 

 

And since, as soon as a vendor disappear, another takes his place, with the same price policy, it is impossible to make money in this business! 

[lanng khao]

9 hours ago, Rc2702 said:

I think restaurants need to diversify from one location to survive.

 

Not all can do this but some can go mobile and cash in on the walking street type trade.

 

Italian food like lasagne and pastas are being sold at our sat market and they surprisingly do a roaring trade.

 

It's noticeable, surprising as it's not even that good but it's a 45baht 7x7x4cm piece of lasagne.

 

Burgers are killing it too on these markets as well as just chips with a cheesy sauce.

 

The above appear to be mainstays of the market now. 

 

All these types of businesses keep their range pretty focussed.

 

 

That's a good shout, you know a lot more about business than football, ????, well in fella. Utft .

[CLW]

I can't see the sour cream, which partly explains the low price. 
 
Yet, carbonara without sour cream, lots of it, ain't no carbonara... 

Off topic, but sorry you are wrong.
Real authentic carbonara has had never any cream or milk in it.
That rules out 95% percent of what they offer in Thailand as carbonara.

https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/1052/ultimate-spaghetti-carbonara

[golfpro47]

To survive in HH at all never mind the Low Season,you have to compete with the well established Italian Restaurants,the most popular are(or were) Enricos Place opposite the Hilton (I think the proper name is Lo Stavalle) and the 2 Italian Restaurants at the bottom of Soi Bintabaht opposite the Temple,these 3 have always been the most popular with Tourists and ex Pats,then you have the less popular but still have have a regular clientele plus you can get the basic Italian Food in many Thai Restaurants,then you have the real expensive one up just past Market Village if it’s still open,then you have a lot of the Farang places that have opened up down Soi 80 and other Sois in tha area,you are in a real competitive market, and another thought you have Pizza Hut which does a very good trade,I wish you well but do your Homework on this idea.

[Taco]

I own 2 restaurants here (not HH) and oldest is on its 14th year.  Slow season is brutally slow.  Heavy rain at 7pm can mean 0 sales.  On top of that business has been declining roughly 4 years straight and its not just me saying that.  Add to that the fact that now everything has to be totally legal which was not the case before.  Work permits for all Burmese, you, VAT on revenue, restaurant and alcohol licence, sign tax, land rental tax, your monthly work permit tax, social security tax for Thais and they even came in once and made me pay social security tax on Burmese staff.  They are collecting for everything now from farang business owners.  I had the tessaban come in and take a photo of my chalkboard menu wall and they said that is a sign with no Thai writing full sign tax 4000bt a year.  I said let me grab chalk and write Thai.  Nope next year can and will discount 50%.  Ridiculous can't even see it from the road.  You need one Thai minimum in the restaurant or its not legal to take cash from customers.

 

The only way I would open is if you have enough friends in the area year round that you think you can get them in at least once or twice a week to keep the bills slightly paid and to show passerby's people inside so more people might come in to try.  If you have a few staff expect to loose money May, June, September, October, November, first 20 days of December for sure and April, July maybe slight profit.  You do the math. 

 

If rent is cheap and location is good get a long lease so you might be able to sell the restaurant if it goes south.  Buy second had fridges or any other plug in equipment you can find. 

 

Your food better be damn good and nothing over 350 baht sells.  Oh and being Italian you have to have wine so have fun trying to make money on the overtaxed crap wine here.   Loads of Italian places selling the same dishes because pasta has a high profit but your on the water find the good local seafood and do Italian seafood grilled or some sort of different presentation (that is if you are busy enough to keep it fresh). 

 

sound fun to you?  Got a decent amount of money in the bank?  If so go for it and you got about a 20% chance of making money. 

 

 

 

[ChipButty]

How to make a small fortune in Thailand? Bring a Big one with you

[oznomad]

Friends of mine (Thai / American couple) are selling their bar / eatery in Hua Hin.

It's a good location on the waterfront and decked out very nicely. 

Let me know if you are interested and I will put you in touch with them.

[tlandtday]

29 minutes ago, Taco said:

I own 2 restaurants here (not HH) and oldest is on its 14th year.  Slow season is brutally slow.  Heavy rain at 7pm can mean 0 sales.  On top of that business has been declining roughly 4 years straight and its not just me saying that.  Add to that the fact that now everything has to be totally legal which was not the case before.  Work permits for all Burmese, you, VAT on revenue, restaurant and alcohol licence, sign tax, land rental tax, your monthly work permit tax, social security tax for Thais and they even came in once and made me pay social security tax on Burmese staff.  They are collecting for everything now from farang business owners.  I had the tessaban come in and take a photo of my chalkboard menu wall and they said that is a sign with no Thai writing full sign tax 4000bt a year.  I said let me grab chalk and write Thai.  Nope next year can and will discount 50%.  Ridiculous can't even see it from the road.  You need one Thai minimum in the restaurant or its not legal to take cash from customers.

 

The only way I would open is if you have enough friends in the area year round that you think you can get them in at least once or twice a week to keep the bills slightly paid and to show passerby's people inside so more people might come in to try.  If you have a few staff expect to loose money May, June, September, October, November, first 20 days of December for sure and April, July maybe slight profit.  You do the math. 

 

If rent is cheap and location is good get a long lease so you might be able to sell the restaurant if it goes south.  Buy second had fridges or any other plug in equipment you can find. 

 

Your food better be damn good and nothing over 350 baht sells.  Oh and being Italian you have to have wine so have fun trying to make money on the overtaxed crap wine here.   Loads of Italian places selling the same dishes because pasta has a high profit but your on the water find the good local seafood and do Italian seafood grilled or some sort of different presentation (that is if you are busy enough to keep it fresh). 

 

sound fun to you?  Got a decent amount of money in the bank?  If so go for it and you got about a 20% chance of making money. 

 

 

 

Very good advice and unless the current attitude toward farang tempers it will be increasingly difficult.  Look to the Chinese to open soon and take over the restaurant businesses and be welcomed. 

[PerkinsCuthbert]

Has the OP ever been to Savannakhet? The dogs are too bored to bark and the locals' idea of a rave is a stool on the sidewalk to watch the solitary car go by once an hour. But that place is hopping compared to Hua Hin in the low season.