Health Insurance - AXA or LUMA or AIA or Cigna Global

[dugrasu]

Hi wise friends on ThaiVisa forum,

 

I've been working Bangkok for 3 years.  I've been using Cigna Global silver plan (China -> Thailand) for 5 years but it seems like many of the international hospitals don't accept direct billing with them so the few times I went to Bumgrungrad, I had to pay out of pocket. 

 

My partner (41) and I (36) are shopping for new health insurance in Thailand. After doing some research, it seems like many insurance policies have quite low coverage/high premium for outpatient, so I'm mostly looking for health insurance with good inpatient coverage (critical illness, cancer (full coverage as my family has history of various cancers), accidents (outpatient/inpatient), global emergencies), direct billing with international hospitals and competitive premium (25-40k THB/year).  So far I have narrowed it down to these 4 companies but leaning towards the first two.   (I will also share with you all, what I learned from my research so others can also benefit from this post)

 

AXA  (SmarCare Optimum Classic/Deluxe) 2.5-5M annual limit, emergency out-patient 50-70k cover, outpatient cancer 300-500k, emergency oversea limit 1.5-2.5M, accident dental up to 25-50k, premium 33-44k/year

 

LUMA (Asia Care Plus / Asia Care First)  (very responsive and easy to understand plans, 32M annual limit, cancer treatment (both inpatient and outpatient), emergency dental, premium 35-55k/year for plan 1, zone C), relatively young company as I couldn't find many company info nor reviews.   

 

AIA  (too many options and add-ons to life insurance, quite confusing, relatively low coverage 500k-2M but reputable company and fixed premium)  My understanding is that AIA focuses more on life insurance than health insurance

 

Cigna Global Gold (high coverage, relatively low premium, full cancer coverage, not as widely accepted in international hospitals in Bangkok (no direct billing?), at least in my case, Cigma Global Silver, not as simple to use here)

 

Has anyone used any of the above 4 companies,  how is it?   

Please share with us your experience, pros & cons. 

 

Thank you very much!

TJ-

 

[Sheryl]

I do not understand the problem re Cigna Global. They most definitely DO have direct billing arrangements with Bumrungrad and pretty much all other private hospitals in Thailand. Many people, myself included, can attest to this.

 

Are you perhaps referring to outpatient care? For that, you do pay upfront and get reimbursed and this is true of most plans, not just Cigna. Though having outpatient cover for Thailand is usually a waste of money.

 

For inpatient care the hospital has to communicate with Cigna and obtain a Guarantee of Payment (GoP) from them. With this, they will nto bill you but rather the insurance company directly. Same process for all other insurers I know of.

 

Re the options you mention  I would personally advise against a Thai-issued policy  (which all of these except Cigna seem to be) and stick with international companies. 

 

Aside from Cigna, good options are April (April International based in France, not April Thailand) and David Shield. the latter is not so good for older people but has attractive premiums for younger people like yourself.

 

I suggest you contact AA brokers  [email protected] for more detailed information and franker discussions of pros and cons on some of the policies you list than I can do online. Buying through a broker does nto cost more and has the added benefit that they will help out after wards if there are any problems with claims.

 

The main problems with Cigna is that one has to call the UK for everything (or the hospital does), they do nto always respond to emails. And their customer service people are, to be charitable, a bit disorganized, Nothing sinister, just inefficient biordering n ditzy, So it can take a lot of follow up.  April has an office in Thailand and even when the policy is issued out of France their Thai office will handle pre-approvals etc so communication much easier.

 

That said, Cigna does come through in the end and many TV members have had huge claims (3-4 million baht) paid by them with no trouble,

 

Cigna, April and David Shield will nto raise premiums on an individual basis due to claims history or change in health status and they are governed by UK or French insurance regulations with clear avenues for complaints and disputes.

 

Most Thai issued oplicys WILL increase premiums based on claim history and so can effectively pricey ou out despite a guarantee of lifetime cover, this is a very big concern. Some also engage in dodgy efforts to deny claims on pretty flimsy grounds, The health insurance market in Thailand is small (since Thais have no need of it)  and  in general not as experienced/professional as longstanding international firms.

 

 

 

[scubascuba3]

The main problems with Cigna is that one has to call the UK for everything (or the hospital does), they do nto always respond to emails. And their customer service people are, to be charitable, a bit disorganized, Nothing sinister, just inefficient biordering n ditzy, So it can take a lot of follow up. 

Ironic really that they don't stop calling and emailing once you ask for a quote. I must have 10+ emails from them coming from some rep in UK/UAE. Puts me off signing up when they are so desperate to sign you up

[Sheryl]

13 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

 

 

Ironic really that they don't stop calling and emailing once you ask for a quote. I must have 10+ emails from them coming from some rep in UK/UAE. Puts me off signing up when they are so desperate to sign you up

 

 

The sales people are an entirely different group from those who manage policies.

 

Aggressive calling is typical of not just Cigna but most insurance companies. I always advise people not to give their phone number when requesting an insurance quote online. If the phone number field is mandatory enter a string of zeros or nines.

[offset]

Pacific Cross pay out patient direct to the hospital, you have to wait a few minutes while the contact them, I have never had to pay upfront for any hospital visit with them

[HampiK]

Just now, offset said:

Pacific Cross pay out patient direct to the hospital, you have to wait a few minutes while the contact them, I have never had to pay upfront for any hospital visit with them

How much are your yearly bills? I asked, because I am interested in the individual increase after claims?

I read in the contract, when you use more than 200% of the yearly insurance premium, then they "can" increase.

[offset]

My bills have never been that high but my son had a claim of 3 times his premium and there was not increase New Years premium but his premium is only 16000  baht a year

 

I cannot see anything about the increase of 200% in my contract but to be honest I only read it quickly, so maybe you can show me where it states that

 

[dugrasu]

Thank you all for your inputs!  and thank you especially to Sheryl for very detailed reply.  And maybe contrast to what I thought, I was only covered for inpatient with Cigna and that's why I couldn't use it.  (silly me) However, like you said, it seems like adding on outpatient coverage for such high premium in Thailand, does seem like waste of money.  

 

 I will look into April International as it sounds like it has more presence in Thailand and the rest of the world, thus easier to communicate than Cigna.  

 

Thank you!  

[BestB]

9 minutes ago, dugrasu said:

Thank you all for your inputs!  and thank you especially to Sheryl for very detailed reply.  And maybe contrast to what I thought, I was only covered for inpatient with Cigna and that's why I couldn't use it.  (silly me) However, like you said, it seems like adding on outpatient coverage for such high premium in Thailand, does seem like waste of money.  

 

 I will look into April International as it sounds like it has more presence in Thailand and the rest of the world, thus easier to communicate than Cigna.  

 

Thank you!  

I am with April , they have office in Bkk. Premiums are not the cheapest but really high coverage. Had a surgery , they paid directly with the hospital. Called to confirm and called to follow up after the surgery .

cover per year from memory 5 million euro. Can pay yearly or quarterly 

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, dugrasu said:

Thank you all for your inputs!  and thank you especially to Sheryl for very detailed reply.  And maybe contrast to what I thought, I was only covered for inpatient with Cigna and that's why I couldn't use it.  (silly me) However, like you said, it seems like adding on outpatient coverage for such high premium in Thailand, does seem like waste of money.  

 

 I will look into April International as it sounds like it has more presence in Thailand and the rest of the world, thus easier to communicate than Cigna.  

 

Thank you!  

 

Yes, I changed from Cigna to April for exactly this reason.

 

Make sure you get the international policy from  April global and  not the My Health Thailand policy.

 

You can get through AA brokers.

[Jingthing]

What's wrong with the April my Thailand if it's for living in Thailand?

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[pontious]

Be advised, if you go with April International ' Essential' policy which I suspect most will the hospitalisation is based on a twin room.

For accidents and emergencies they will cover the cost of  a private room in the absence of a twin room. For 'scheduled hospitalisation' they will NOT cover a private room. At all.

[pontious]

2 hours ago, BestB said:

I am with April , they have office in Bkk. Premiums are not the cheapest but really high coverage. Had a surgery , they paid directly with the hospital. Called to confirm and called to follow up after the surgery .

cover per year from memory 5 million euro. Can pay yearly or quarterly 

May I ask when you joined April [ was that April International ] and if so was it the 'Essential' policy.?

[scubascuba3]

HCI looks relatively cheap until 70. Anyone got experience of those? $2,000 deductible

[BestB]

2 hours ago, pontious said:

May I ask when you joined April [ was that April International ] and if so was it the 'Essential' policy.?

My policy is called Ambassade

Type of cover: from the 1st euro
Level of cover: Medium
Option: Hospitalisation only at 100% of actual costs

Zone of cover: 3

 

i believe from memory , zone 3 is south east Asia 

[BestB]

8 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

HCI looks relatively cheap until 70. Anyone got experience of those? $2,000 deductible

HCI looks very cheap. I suspect low yearly payouts, limited cover and possibly may require blood works and xrays prior to acceptance.

 

april essential appears to have 3 million baht per year max payout, in my opinion not only not enough for serious condition but also rather expansive premium.

 

my policy , ambassade is only 2000 baht more in premium for my age bracket but my cover is 3 or 5 million euro.not baht, ie 30 times higher 

[simon43]

I had the HCI Emergency+ policy for 2 years.  The cover is excellent (15 million baht per year), covering all the usual ailments/treatments, with emergency evacuation (I was living in Burma).  I never had to make a claim, so no experience of that.

 

I just changed my insurance cover from HCI to DavidShield, but on;y because HCI has a compulsory excess of $2,000.  Although that's fine for me right now, I considered an absolute worst-case scenario in the future when I might not have $2,000 at hand, or might need to make multiple claims with the need to pay $2,000 on each occasion.  The DavidShield policy has a higher annual cover ($1.2 million USD) and therefore the premiums are higher.  But there is no excess or copay.

 

For both HCI and Davidshield, no bloodworks or doctor's examination was needed.  I took out the HCI policy at age 57 and the DavidShield policy just yesterday at 59 years and 10 months of age.

 

 

[yuiop]

14 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

Yes, I changed from Cigna to April for exactly this reason.

 

Make sure you get the international policy from  April global and  not the My Health Thailand policy.

 

You can get through AA brokers.

Is April International ONLY for US citizens??

[Sheryl]

44 minutes ago, yuiop said:

Is April International ONLY for US citizens??

 

 

It is a French company headquartered in France. Nothing US specific.

 

But not limited to French people, either.

 

 Expats of any nationality can apply.

 

 

[DJ54]

Yesterday I sent a request to a health insurance provider that advertised on TV. I’m 65 with heart condition since 40. 

 

Received an email said 65 and older need a health check before 

neing approved for insurance. That impossibly could get coverage

 it it would exclude cardiac. 

 

Today they said....cut and pasted. 

 

I'm afraid to say we would be unable to offer cover.

 

Best of luck in finding another provider.

 

[Sheryl]

On 3/22/2019 at 11:12 PM, BestB said:

HCI looks very cheap. I suspect low yearly payouts, limited cover and possibly may require blood works and xrays prior to acceptance.

 

april essential appears to have 3 million baht per year max payout, in my opinion not only not enough for serious condition but also rather expansive premium.

 

my policy , ambassade is only 2000 baht more in premium for my age bracket but my cover is 3 or 5 million euro.not baht, ie 30 times higher 

 

You are looking at the April Thailand policy.

 

What you want is April international. US 1 million max annual payout.

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, DJ54 said:

Yesterday I sent a request to a health insurance provider that advertised on TV. I’m 65 with heart condition since 40. 

 

Received an email said 65 and older need a health check before 

neing approved for insurance. That impossibly could get coverage

 it it would exclude cardiac. 

 

Today they said....cut and pasted. 

 

I'm afraid to say we would be unable to offer cover.

 

Best of luck in finding another provider.

 

A heart condition is going to be a serious problem for getting insured. Though it does somewhat depend on what the condition is and how stable.

 

Try Cigna Global and April Global (Global, not April Thailand!).

 

They will ask for full details and medical records but not a special medical exam. I can't say what they will come back with but it will at least have gotten careful thoughful review.

[scubascuba3]

 
You are looking at the April Thailand policy.
 
What you want is April international. US 1 million max annual payout.

With April Thailand there is a 16m baht per year option. One reason i quite like this option over the April Global France is you can opt for deductibles up to 10,000 USD which reduces premiums 65%. Plus premiums are substantially lower than France anyway. Personally at my age 49 I'm ok with paying lower medical treatments but don't really want to get hit with a big one so this insurance just covers that, if i take it

[Sheryl]

You can also get deductible with the April Globsl policy

 

Check the MyHealth Thailand policy very carefully. I think it allows them to up your premiums on an individual basis if yoy develop a serious health condition or have large claims.

 

Won't happen with the international policy.

 

And there is little cost diffetence between the two.

 

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

 

 

[scubascuba3]

You can also get deductible with the April Globsl policy
 
Check the MyHealth Thailand policy very carefully. I think it allows them to up your premiums on an individual basis if yoy develop a serious health condition or have large claims.
 
Won't happen with the intetnational policy.
 
And thete is luttle cost diffetence between the two.
 
Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 
 
 
 

April Global max deductible was 5k euro, which for me 49 was 40k baht annually, where as April Thailand with $10k deductible was 15k baht annually.

i take your point about them upping the premiums which is what I expect. The agent said

"With April Thailand your Premium will not go up after a claim as the plan is community rated. You will always pay the same as anybody else with the same plan and the same age, regardless if there were claims or not"


I'm not sure i believe that

[Sheryl]

On 3/26/2019 at 5:19 PM, scubascuba3 said:

April Global max deductible was 5k euro, which for me 49 was 40k baht annually, where as April Thailand with $10k deductible was 15k baht annually.

i take your point about them upping the premiums which is what I expect. The agent said

"With April Thailand your Premium will not go up after a claim as the plan is community rated. You will always pay the same as anybody else with the same plan and the same age, regardless if there were claims or not"


I'm not sure i believe that

 

Ask to see the policy document and read it.

[expatvietnam]

Hi,
I have been using Luma for a few month now (about 11 months) ????

If you live in SEA (Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia), that's a pretty good insurance that expats recommend (personally I am in Ho Chi Minh) !

The coverage is great ???? (again mainly for SEA, not for Europe ????) and the price pretty good when you compare to others (I tried before MSH International and April).

⚠️ Check specifically what's the insurance policy if you drive a motorbike (or even as a passenger) ????, some of the popular insurance don't cover you if you are on a back of a 150cc bike (most of the Grab drivers in Vietnam ...)

Cheers

Will

[wgdanson]

On 3/22/2019 at 6:11 PM, BestB said:

thus easier to communicate than Cigna.  

I called Cigna this morning via Skype, no problems at all, and very knowlegeable operator.

[Sheryl]

I had immense frustration in communications with Cigna and after 3 years gave up and changed insurers.

 

I found their staff to be often unable to communicate in English, poor at following through, and  unable to give coherent explanations.  Also found delays in responding to requests for pre-approval to be excessive (actually more than delays...the requests seem to vanish into a black hole altogether ).

 

To be fair, all my dealings with them involved day surgeries which the policy covered but which they appeared not to have any definition of nor procedures in place for.  People who have had inpatient admissions seem to have faired OK from all I hear.

 

Their rates are very competitive compared to others but I get the impression they achieve that by keeping admin costs low by paying low wages and hirng inexperienced people, with predictable results.

[pinshanghai]

On 8/26/2019 at 6:40 PM, Sheryl said:

I had immense frustration in communications with Cigna and after 3 years gave up and changed insurers.

 

I found their staff to be often unable to communicate in English, poor at following through, and  unable to give coherent explanations.  Also found delays in responding to requests for pre-approval to be excessive (actually more than delays...the requests seem to vanish into a black hole altogether ).

 

To be fair, all my dealings with them involved day surgeries which the policy covered but which they appeared not to have any definition of nor procedures in place for.  People who have had inpatient admissions seem to have faired OK from all I hear.

 

Their rates are very competitive compared to others but I get the impression they achieve that by keeping admin costs low by paying low wages and hirng inexperienced people, with predictable results.

Sheryl - Can you recommend a good broker in Thailand? I tried the address from your earlier post and it didn't go through. Also, what insurer are you using now?