Hundreds of thousands march in London to demand new Brexit referendum

[7by7]

8 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

<Snip>

If remain had won do you think the leavers would be crying out for another referendum!? Very doubtful.

Farage and his supporters would; he said as much in May 2016 when he said a 52% to 48% result in favour of Remain would be unfinished business.

 

Of course, he said that when he though Remain would win. When he found out that Leave had actually won by such a small margin, 'unfinished business' suddenly became a 'magnificent victory!'

 

9 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

<Snip>

Parliament HAS made up it's mind. It made up it's mind the day after the result and was going to obstruct the process in any way it could.

Not quite.

 

Corbyn made up his mind that he would obstruct any deal negotiated by May, and as far as I am aware, unlike May, he has not allowed his MPs a free vote on May's deal. If he had, it would probably have been passed first time around.

[7by7]

14 minutes ago, sanemax said:

People voted to leave last time and it wasnt delivered , what makes you think that Parliament will deliver it if it was voted for again >?

 

If the government made the referendum result binding, which it has the power to do, then Parliament would have to deliver it or face a massive constitutional crisis.

 

It is not facing such a crisis at the moment because the 2016 referendum was legally only advisory. The last legally binding referendum being the AV one in 2011.

 

I've explained this before; have you forgotten?

 

 

[7by7]

16 minutes ago, sanemax said:

They didnt 

 

https://fullfact.org/europe/what-was-promised-about-customs-union-referendum/

 Exactly.

 

No leave campaign, official or not, had any idea about how to proceed after they won!

 

Which explains a lot. They forgot the 7 P principle!

[Chelseafan]

10 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Farage and his supporters would; he said as much in May 2016 when he said a 52% to 48% result in favour of Remain would be unfinished business.

 

Of course, he said that when he though Remain would win. When he found out that Leave had actually won by such a small margin, 'unfinished business' suddenly became a 'magnificent victory!'

 

Not quite.

 

Corbyn made up his mind that he would obstruct any deal negotiated by May, and as far as I am aware, unlike May, he has not allowed his MPs a free vote on May's deal. If he had, it would probably have been passed first time around.

Farage is full of hot air. The reality is that there wouldn't of been another referendum, Cameron would still be PM and the Euro-Sceptics in the party would have suffered a major setback. There would be a little bluster from the leavers but over time that would of died down. Does anyone really talk about the Scottish referendum these days other than the ginger minger ?

 

Not just Corbyn around 75% of the MP don't want to leave...from all parties.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 30, 2019 by Chelseafan

[RickBradford]

Dr Richard North sums it up succinctly:

 

"As such, Brexit has turned out to be the touchstone of a decadent nation, bringing into sharp profile the deterioration of key systems and institutions. But, in illustrating how far the rot has gone, it has at least done the necessary job of exposing, in all its horror, the level to which we have sunk. "

[wilcopops]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 Then why are you Brexiteers so against of holding one?

 

Three questions in a STV ballot.

1. Leave  with May's deal,
2. Leave with no deal,
3. Cancel Article 50 and remain.

How about this deal?

 

[7by7]

31 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

Farage is full of hot air. The reality is that there wouldn't of been another referendum, Cameron would still be PM and the Euro-Sceptics in the party would have suffered a major setback. There would be a little bluster from the leavers but over time that would of died down. 

If Remain had won by such a slim majority, I doubt very much that Brexiteers would go away. I believe many of them would, like Farage, consider it unfinished business.

 

33 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

Does anyone really talk about the Scottish referendum these days other than the ginger minger ?

But the SNP lost that by a larger margin, just, with a larger turnout.

 

Even so, I think you'll find it's not just the SNP who are agitating for another independence referendum.

 

36 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

Not just Corbyn around 75% of the MP don't want to leave...from all parties

Most MPs were Remainers; but most, like May, are now trying to respect the referendum result. It's how we leave that they can't agree on.

 

May's deal would have been passed on the first vote if:

 

Labour had supported her instead of voting on party political grounds.

or

Rees-Mogg and his ERG had realised that her deal was better than the alternative; no deal. Something many of them are now saying.

and

The DUP had realised that the backstop is the only way to leave and keep Northern Ireland within the UK without breaking the Good Friday agreement and starting the Troubles again.

[wilcopops]

25 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

Dr Richard North sums it up succinctly:

 

"As such, Brexit has turned out to be the touchstone of a decadent nation, bringing into sharp profile the deterioration of key systems and institutions. But, in illustrating how far the rot has gone, it has at least done the necessary job of exposing, in all its horror, the level to which we have sunk. "

North the UKIP member, climate denier  and proven liar? Not a source id want to quote, but it does fit a pattern for Brexitism.

[sanemax]

9 minutes ago, wilcopops said:

North the UKIP member, climate denier  and proven liar? Not a source id want to quote, but it does fit a pattern for Brexitism.

The "proven liar" isnt a member of UKIP

[RickBradford]

26 minutes ago, wilcopops said:

North the UKIP member, climate denier  and proven liar? Not a source id want to quote, but it does fit a pattern for Brexitism.

Offering up your personal opinion of North in no way alters the truth of what he is saying.

 

Also, his remarks are neither pro- or anti-Brexit, just a denunciation of the terrible way the thing has been handled all round, something that is hard to deny.

[7by7]

14 minutes ago, sanemax said:

The "proven liar" isnt a member of UKIP

 Very close connections, though. From his Wikipedia entry

Quote

He then moved into trade politics and thence to the European Parliament as research director for the group of European Democracies and Diversities",^[4] a grouping of eurosceptic political groupings which existed from 1999 to 2004, in which the UK Independence Party (UKIP) participated. At the European Parliament in Strasbourg, North shared an office with UKIP's leader Nigel Farage.^[6]

 He and Nigel had a falling out, though.

 

Richard North beyond redemption

Quote

He campaigned for many years for the UK to leave the EU. He wanted a Brexit referendum, but hated UKIP and particularly Nigel Farage. When UKIP forced a worried Cameron to call a referendum, North did everything he could to attack UKIP and to sabotage the arguments of the Leave campaign, offering much succour to their opponents. There could only be one C.O. in the Brexit campaign and that had to be Richard North.

 

[BobBKK]

People change. It's two long years. Why be afraid of another vote?

[sanemax]

5 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

People change. It's two long years. Why be afraid of another vote?

No point in voting , The M.P's will not abide by it and over rule the vote and do what they want to do 

[BobBKK]

Just now, sanemax said:

No point in voting , The M.P's will not abide by it and over rule the vote and do what they want to do 

I don't think they would next time. If the new vote said 'leave' I think it would just be implemented. My suggestion is a vote on the Deal or Stay.

[Laughing Gravy]

8 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

I don't think they would next time. If the new vote said 'leave' I think it would just be implemented.

Why can't they do it the first time? Why would anyone trust them to do it the second time? Because they said so? A bit like David Cameron saying we respect the result and will implement it with a once in a generation vote. Total rollocks.

[dick dasterdly]

14 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Why is it most Brexiteers wont answer straight questions?

 

They are very good at sloganeering, but when asked to give a straight answer to a straight question go very quiet!

 

I know you sort of answered a question I asked about May's deal by saying you disliked the backstop; but when I tried to discuss that point further with you, you ignored me.

 

In a genuine democracy, people are allowed to change their minds. 

 

"I know you sort of answered a question I asked about May's deal by saying you disliked the backstop; but when I tried to discuss that point further with you, you ignored me."

 

I tend to ignore questions that only lead to us going round in circles....

 

IIRC the post to which you are referring, the problem is that I believe the eu/may deal is brino (and paying 39 bn for the privilege....) - whereas you believe it to be brexit.

Edited March 31, 2019 by dick dasterdly

[dick dasterdly]

3 hours ago, Chelseafan said:

Doesn't really change anything though, you're just replacing shit with turd.

 

True, but at least the new turd will be a bit more wary about taking the electorate into consideration than the current shit!

[dick dasterdly]

3 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

May's deal means we will:

Leave the customs union.

Leave the single market.

Leave the freedom of movement directive.

Leave the common agricultural policy.

Leave the common fisheries policy.

Leave the jurisdiction of the ECJ.

But still have a trade deal with our largest trading partner.

 

So instead of merely repeating Farage's nonsense about a so called surrender document and posting sloganeering about what a man thought when he was at university; how about thinking for yourself and telling us what it is you don't like about any of that?

Precisely WHEN will the uk leave all of the above as a result of the eu/may deal?

[wilcopops]

I think 2 years is enough,,,,,,Brexiteers clear cannot agree on or organize a Brexit, so isn't it about time to just cease and let the rest of us get on with it?

[billd766]

13 hours ago, geoffbezoz said:

Guess you just had to post something unrelated and non contributory to this Brexit thread to maintain your posting targets.

Another sly little dig from a sly person.

 

I don't have a posting target.

 

I have posted on many threads over the last 16 years. According to my profile since November 2003 I have made 17,495 posts. (I had to look that up as I had no idea what the score was).

 

You seem to be posting twice as many as I do in a similar time period.

 

 

[Forethat]

3 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Precisely WHEN will the uk leave all of the above as a result of the eu/may deal?

Exactly. And WHO decides when we leave? UK or EU?

[7by7]

6 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

6 hours ago, BobBKK said:

I don't think they would next time. If the new vote said 'leave' I think it would just be implemented.

Why can't they do it the first time? Why would anyone trust them to do it the second time? Because they said so? A bit like David Cameron saying we respect the result and will implement it with a once in a generation vote. Total rollocks.

 

Until the so called indicative votes last week, MPs have not been voting whether or not to leave, but how to leave. That is the nature of our relationship with the EU afterwards.

 

In the indicative vote there was one motion on cancelling Article 50. It was defeated by 293 to 184.

[7by7]

5 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

"I know you sort of answered a question I asked about May's deal by saying you disliked the backstop; but when I tried to discuss that point further with you, you ignored me."

 

I tend to ignore questions that only lead to us going round in circles....

 So you ignore questions asking you to expand upon and clarify your statements! 

 

5 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

IIRC the post to which you are referring, the problem is that I believe the eu/may deal is brino (and paying 39 bn for the privilege....) - whereas you believe it to be brexit.

 

5 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

8 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

May's deal means we will:

Leave the customs union.

Leave the single market.

Leave the freedom of movement directive.

Leave the common agricultural policy.

Leave the common fisheries policy.

Leave the jurisdiction of the ECJ.

But still have a trade deal with our largest trading partner.

 

So instead of merely repeating Farage's nonsense about a so called surrender document and posting sloganeering about what a man thought when he was at university; how about thinking for yourself and telling us what it is you don't like about any of that?

Precisely WHEN will the uk leave all of the above as a result of the eu/may deal?

How can you believe anything about the deal when it seems you know so little about it?

 

I appreciate it's a very long document; like any international agreement it has to cover every point from major to minor. But every UK national media outlet has provided a summery.

 

I'll let you choose which one to read so you can't accuse me of bias.

 

1 hour ago, Forethat said:

Exactly. And WHO decides when we leave? UK or EU?

 

The deal provides for a transition period of 21 months. This could be extended up to a maximum of two years, but only if both sides agree.

[AlexRich]

2 hours ago, Forethat said:

Exactly. And WHO decides when we leave? UK or EU?

 

I was wondering when you would show up. We are now past 11pm on 29 March 2019, and we are still in the EU?

 

You said you had skills, legal interpration skills, and silly old me just couldn’t get my head round why not leaving on that date was a legal impossibility? 

 

Seems that you have exaggerated and embellished your CV? Overconfidence seems to be a Brexiteer trait.

 

 

[nontabury]

9 hours ago, Chelseafan said:

Doesn't really change anything though, you're just replacing shit with turd.

 

 

Yes,but it will be our turd.

 

 

[nontabury]

9 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

May's deal means we will:

Leave the customs union.

Leave the single market.

Leave the freedom of movement directive.

Leave the common agricultural policy.

Leave the common fisheries policy.

Leave the jurisdiction of the ECJ.

But still have a trade deal with our largest trading partner.

 

So instead of merely repeating Farage's nonsense about a so called surrender document and posting sloganeering about what a man thought when he was at university; how about thinking for yourself and telling us what it is you don't like about any of that?

 

 

 To each and every one of those points you make.

 Can you just add:- WHEN

[Forethat]

21 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

I was wondering when you would show up. We are now past 11pm on 29 March 2019, and we are still in the EU?

 

You said you had skills, legal interpration skills, and silly old me just couldn’t get my head round why not leaving on that date was a legal impossibility? 

 

Seems that you have exaggerated and embellished your CV? Overconfidence seems to be a Brexiteer trait.

 

 

Reading comprehension is clearly not one of your skills.

If I'm correct - and I am - what I said was that UK would not be able to leave legally in a constitutional manner without the statutory instruments required to amend the law. 

So the question you should ask yourself is:

1. Did they get the instruments in place?

2. If they didn't, did we remain legally and in a constitutional manner

 

I'll try to explain again: Just because speeding is illegal doesn't mean it never happens. I appreciate that this is difficult for you to understand, but trust me on this.

 

On 3/24/2019 at 1:23 PM, Forethat said:

Interesting legal and constitutional situation indeed. In essence, seeing that the withdrawal act constitutes that UK leaves EU on March 29th - and does so by law -  there are no other options but a statutory instrument to amend the law and delay Brexit. Get that in place before March 29th and the 'remainers' still have a case. Otherwise, this is not a question of preventing Brexit, it's about promoting rejoining (Brentry?), because we leave on March 29th whether the 'remainers' like it or not.

2

[7by7]

30 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 

 

 To each and every one of those points you make.

 Can you just add:- WHEN

 

For the benefit of two others who like you obviously can't be bothered to read even the summaries of May's deal provided by every national media source in the UK I have already answered that question.

 

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

The deal provides for a transition period of 21 months. This could be extended up to a maximum of two years, but only if both sides agree.

 

[evadgib]

I cannot ever recall a mess of this magnitude being resolved peacefully. I don't know where it's going which is why I haven't bothered chipping in for a while.

 

During the winter of discounted tents (the only comparable ballsup) I had the good fortune(!) of being sent on active service. By the time I came back Maggie had taken over and the Sun was shining again. Who is going to fill those shoes this time?

 

The country desperately needs leadership & for the life of me I cannot see where it might come from.

Edited March 31, 2019 by evadgib

[7by7]

55 minutes ago, nontabury said:

10 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

May's deal means we will:

Leave the customs union.

Leave the single market.

Leave the freedom of movement directive.

Leave the common agricultural policy.

Leave the common fisheries policy.

Leave the jurisdiction of the ECJ.

But still have a trade deal with our largest trading partner.

 

So instead of merely repeating Farage's nonsense about a so called surrender document and posting sloganeering about what a man thought when he was at university; how about thinking for yourself and telling us what it is you don't like about any of that?

 

 

 To each and every one of those points you make.

 Can you just add:- WHEN

 

I've answered your question; so instead of merely clicking on yet another laughing smiley, how about you answering mine?

 

Edit:

I'd also, of course, more than welcome the answers of each and every other poster opposed to May's deal. Proper answers, not mere repeats of slogans, please.

 

Maybe proper, well thought out arguments will convince me where blindly repeating mindless slogans hasn't!

Edited March 31, 2019 by 7by7