Immigration proposes much harsher penalties for failing to report foreigners staying in Thailand

[cryo]

6 hours ago, Lee4Life said:

Laos, Vietnam, China.....and what do you suppose those countries all have in common?

Add the UK to that list and many other countries round the world. It is an offence to rent property to a foreigner in the UK without first checking their immigration status.

 

Ken.

 

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, Benmart said:

Ridiculous or not, I am a guest and obey the law. Compliance is up to the individual and the consequence for non-compliance is at the pleasure of the Thai goverment.

It's not a law that affects foreigners (unless you own your own condo).

Compliance is up to the Thais that own the properties, and I don't give a stuff about the laws they choose to obey (or not).

[Number 6]

5 hours ago, marcusb said:

My province is extremely strict about the TM30s.  Go out of town one night have to come back and report. Change of visa, come back and report.  Twice they have scared the hell out of the poor lady renting me my house,  She will not rent to a foreigner again. 

 My friend moved into a townhouse owned by a nice old army general. Later another farang friend rented another unit. The general asked my friends if they knew anymore foreigners for another unit as he was quite happy renting to foreigners, rent on time, no parties, no hassle. Then immi started getting strict about the TM30s, he had to go down to immi a few times to straighten things out. He has now said he will never rent to farang again. 

 This fear of renting to foreigners will increase with increased fines and rules. Soon it will be like Burma or China where we will only be able to stay in certified places. 

  Sidenote: I went to immi on a Monday morning told them I have been to Laos and came back with a new NonB. They said the landlord MUST come in and redo the TM30 as I had a change of status. At 1:00 pm I had frantic calls from the landlord to meet at immi. I go there straighten things out. They are going to fine her 1600 Baht. Then immigration looks at me and says, its not really her fault it is my fault so I should pay. I disagreed and also told them I was back in the city 5:00PM on Sunday, I reported on Monday so there should be no fine. It was dropped. The fine is supposed to be for the homeowner but I can see in many cases it will be farang who pays.  Its a pretty messed up system. 

You should state the province.

 

Why in the world would you live there? Even that your wife is from there imo is hardly reason.

 

There is no way I would life under that stress and regime.

[Yeahbutwhytho]

Just now, BritManToo said:

It's not a law that affects foreigners (unless you own your own condo).

Compliance is up to the Thais that own the properties, and I don't give a stuff about the laws they choose to obey (or not).

 

They have already fined foreigners for this very law when they went in for extensions.. I'd say it does affect foreigners

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, Yeahbutwhytho said:

They have already fined foreigners for this very law when they went in for extensions.. I'd say it does affect foreigners

Refuse to pay.

I'm betting those foreigners didn't get receipts!

[cryo]

Ever wondered how Thailand will get control of property's running AIRBnB short term lets, you are seeing how to do it with this law.

 

Ken.

 

[Odysseus123]

1 minute ago, Yeahbutwhytho said:

 

They have already fined foreigners for this very law when they went in for extensions.. I'd say it does affect foreigners

"I'd say it does effect foreigners."

 

Of course it does-and has.

[johnc925]

1 minute ago, cryo said:

Ever wondered how Thailand will get control of property's running AIRBnB short term lets, you are seeing how to do it with this law.

 

Ken.

 

I am already witnessing how they are getting around it (AirBNB's) .. it's a crafty game and some clever little ways they are working around changes... 

 

[cryo]

8 minutes ago, Teacherduck said:

I went to Ayutthaya Immigration today to inquire what documents I needed for extension of my Non O marriage visa, I had the list but was written in Thai, was told to go home and ask my wife. So simply no one at that office can speak English, or my question was too hard.  And we get hauled over the coals if we overstay. Fair go Big Joke, get some staff who can help eliminate the problems, instead of infuriating them. Seeing as you are dealing with farangs, teach them English?

I understand your frustration but how many UK/American/Australian immigration officials speak Thai, I suspect very few if any and there will defiantly be more Thais can converse in English in their immigration centres.

[Arkady]

While hotels are or should be set up to do this reporting, it can pose a serious problem to landlords renting out apartments to foreigners, if they really have to report to Immigrant every time their tenant returns to Thailand from an overseas trip.

 

If you own your own condo, do you have to report yourself?

 

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, cryo said:

I understand your frustration but how many UK/American/Australian immigration officials speak Thai, I suspect very few if any and there will defiantly be more Thais can converse in English in their immigration centres.

Thai isn't the official second language of America, and they don't teach Thai to all students from age 6 in American schools.

[myshem]

Never reported myself anywhere and will never, they like it or not, I do not respect and follow rules made by idiots for idiots.

 

[cryo]

1 minute ago, Arkady said:

While hotels are or should be set up to do this reporting, it can pose a serious problem to landlords renting out apartments to foreigners, if they really have to report to Immigrant every time their tenant returns to Thailand from an overseas trip.

 

If you own your own condo, do you have to report yourself.

Yes, I have discussed this with the local immigration office and I register myself and my UK wife twice a year when I come to stay in my condo. Once you have done it the first time its very quick on repeat referrals. I use Jontien Immigration office.

 

Ken.

 

[cryo]

7 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Thai isn't the official second language of America, and they don't teach Thai from age 6 in American schools.

They teach very little in Thai schools and the majority of the language is picked up off the TV using subtitles. If you live in Thailand don''t be surprised if everything is written/conversed in Thai and the TM30 is written in Thai/English and it is easy to get Google to translate. Google do an app for android that will let you easily communicate with a Thai and visa versa. 

 

Ken.

 

[marcusarelus]

3 minutes ago, cryo said:

They teach very little in Thai schools and the majority of the language is picked up off the TV using subtitles.

 

Ken.

 

So how long did you attend Thai schools to pick up those gems of wisdom?

[ttrd]

9 minutes ago, myshem said:

Never reported myself anywhere and will never, they like it or not, I do not respect and follow rules made by idiots for idiots.

 

RE - Never reported myself anywhere

 

Same for me until I needed a proof of address when I bought a motorbike in my name and the immigration found out that the address registration where missing. They issued a fee of 1000thb for lack of registration from the landlord which the landlord paid and they said as well they could issue me a fee from 1600thb up to 4000thb, but they didn't this time so yes - it can be expensive to not follow their rules ...

[GAZZPA]

6 hours ago, Kasset Tak said:

So, EU should impose the same on Thai nationals... when Thais's have a Schengen visa, then they are free to travel and stay where ever they want all over the Schengen area without even go to immigration... as long as they have a valid visa!
The countries they are sighting to have these rules are countries like China, North Korea and other highly controlled countries!

Completely agree. Confirmed place of stay for all Thais at arrival of they cannot enter whatever EU country it is.

[Jumbo1968]

6 hours ago, Briggsy said:

Here is what will happen.

 

Foreigner : I would like to extend my tourist / non-imm visa.

Immigration : You go TM30 desk first.

Foreigner : (at TM 30 desk) I would like to extend my tourist / non-imm visa.

TM30 desk : Where is owner condo? (angrily).

Foreigner : He lives in Bangkok / abroad / 400 kms away / He is at work.

TM30 desk : He must come. Give me phone number. (phones landlord in Bangkok)

TM30 desk : (To foreigner) You pay 10,000 Baht.

Foreigner : Nothing to do with me.

TM30 desk : No pay, no extension. Up to you.

 

Similar position, my owner lives permanently in Germany, very little or no contact with her only if any major repairs are needed. 

 

[akampa]

Here is a thought just returned to Chiang Mai from Cha-Am and the next day did my 90 day report the question is do I have to send my Thai wife to do the TM 30 report ?

[bristolgeoff]

If u have to have the landlord when you report it seems.crazy what if he owns the place in cm but he lives in bkk.does he want to travel to cm for renting out the place there and tell them what they know all ready.seems a crazy idea

[cryo]

3 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

So how long did you attend Thai schools to pick up those gems of wisdom?

Pointed out to me two weeks ago by my Thai Hairdresser who can converse in English but never learnt it in a Thai school.

[kekalot]

6 hours ago, Briggsy said:

Here is what will happen.

 

Foreigner : I would like to extend my tourist / non-imm visa.

Immigration : You go TM30 desk first.

Foreigner : (at TM 30 desk) I would like to extend my tourist / non-imm visa.

TM30 desk : Where is owner condo? (angrily).

Foreigner : He lives in Bangkok / abroad / 400 kms away / He is at work.

TM30 desk : He must come. Give me phone number. (phones landlord in Bangkok)

TM30 desk : (To foreigner) You pay 10,000 Baht.

Foreigner : Nothing to do with me.

TM30 desk : No pay, no extension. Up to you.

 

I don't think that is very far off the truth

 

I live in a room that is subrent from an owner who lives in Bangkok (so I was told)

few years back when I was trying to apply to get an education visa, they asked for a copy of the house book with my name in there

asked the landlady, nothing she could do to get the copy from the owner (bothered her several times)

school wouldn't apply without that, ended up asking motorbike taxi guy to come with me to school and copy his ID and say i was living with him.. which was a total lie but my only way to do it.

 

since then, there were a few times they have asked me to provide that book from the owner, usually for Residence Certificates but most of the time I was able to get out of that requirement by showing them my TM30 and the back of my drivers license.

 

one time they gave me a hard time for not having the book and that I should know better because i have been there many times.. however they had just printed off a residence certificate (needed a second one to buy a diff bike) and I said how did I get this one then without access to the book? .. they didn't like that much but accepted my first certificate of residence as proof to make a 2nd one.

 

chances are even after almost 6 years here I am likely still not reported on the landlord side to be living there but I did it on my end every single time. and on the TM6 and all paperworks.

 

[johnarth]

this is way out, do you think he thinks this will impress China? and get more Chinese turos

[Ulic]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

Pol Col Pongnakhorn Nakornsantiphap who heads a committee recommending changes said that Lt-Gen Surachate wanted to bring Thailand in line with other countries' regulations.

Great, bring it in line with Canada's regulations. Reporting not needed. 

[Formaleins]

7 hours ago, KittenKong said:

I have no problem with this as long as they only fine the owners/operators of the properties, and not the hapless tourist who probably doesnt even know that someone was supposed to register him.

Totally agree, but I suspect all of those on a marriage extension will be the ones that end up with the fine. They already make it "convenient" for the house owner to transfer responsibility by giving out an authorisation of proxy. The 24 hour rule is ridiculous as well, if they actually managed to set up a working website where we can report then that would be fair enough, but their garbage attempt at the 90 day report site shows just how much interest they have in making things easier. Most Thai websites are garbage anyway, most never work, most are never updated and were probably written for counterfeit Windows 98.

 

And just on a final note, that Saudi girl who fled to Thailand HAD an onward ticket to Australia, It was the Thais that prevented her leaving after some Saudi HiSo opened his mouth. Obviously a major embarrassment to them, they hated the media scrutiny, that girl would have been thrown back on the first flight to the dark ages if the media hadn't picked this up.

[sambum]

26 minutes ago, cryo said:

I understand your frustration but how many UK/American/Australian immigration officials speak Thai, I suspect very few if any and there will defiantly be more Thais can converse in English in their immigration centres.

"defiantly"? At first I thought you'd (definitely?) spelt it wrong, but when you mention "Thais" and "Immigration" in the same sentence, you got it right!

[Fex Bluse]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

Welcome-

. Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Resistance is futile.

Thai Borg 

[manhood]

Thailand is daily turning away from anything that democracy has and means. After election now the junta takes full control morever and guve a shit on the voters!

 

They compare themselves more with China and Nort Korea but not with any democrate country, so that's their way to go!

[55Jay]

I got caught up in this snare last week doing my extension (retirement). 

 

We'd gone to the US last year for holiday, returned Swampy 6 March 2018 and drove home.  Did my annual extension (marriage) 10 days later.  This TM30/28 issue had been swirling on TVF around that time so I asked our usual, awesome I/O if I needed to report my return home.  She grimaced, shook her head dismissively and said don't worry about it, then carried on processing my marriage extension.

 

Sadly, the entire staff at my Immi office was changed out late last year, including our friendly, sensible I/O we'd dealt with for 7 years. 

 

New I/O lady we pulled last week barely looked at me, never spoke to me directly, only to my wife.  Fine, whatever.  She went through everything with a fine tooth comb, it was like watching worms copulate.  Spent about 10 minutes off and on fiddling around with my bank book, copied all the way back to 2015, obviously trying to work out the seasoning. 

 

But everything was in order, no problems noted, and she finally collected everything up, signaling she was about to walk it back for approval.  Man, I was loving this retirement process vs. marriage!  Horray!

 

Out of nowhere, she opened my passport again and pointed to the Swampy return stamp from last year - 6 March 2018 - and said I failed to report my return within 24 hours. 

 

After a bunch of BS, she sent us out to the Investigations Division office building to be interviewed and clear the matter.  Wife completed a Housemaster Report Form.  Guy there didn't lay a big fine on me, just 8 Baht for Xeroxing some pages from my passport and the wife's ID.  

 

We walked back to the main office and they finalised the retirement extension.

 

[itzmeacire]

Actually the 90 days online report is working fine however, it only works on browser (Internet Explorer browser i.e. ver. 8-10) so just go the click this website https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn90online/online/tm47/TM47Action.do?cmd=acceptTerm and file your information correctly, if you have been going to goverment complex every 90 days might as well do it online to save some money and time. Also there are rules that submission of report must be done atleast 15days before your current due date in order for an immigration officer to approved it, you will be receiving an email about the status, if information you have put it didnt match the info that they have in their system, that's the only time that you will be required to visit chaengwattana personally.