Sold My House - No Money?

[JusMe]

Thanks for that link, KittenKong.  I followed and investigated through it, and at least got to an email address which I can write to, perhaps in futility but also with at least the hope of some possible followup.

[spidermike007]

On 3/27/2019 at 11:25 AM, JusMe said:

Total amount is a bit under 1.2 million baht, so the hassle and expense isn't enough compensation to go through the flight and accommodation and time and all the rest.

 

I had the house up for sale for quite a long time, and the agent sent me papers for signing for its sale, but didn't actually tell me when the sale went through, and hasn't contacted me since.  I only discovered the fact of the sale by finding it on his website as SOLD.

 

Commission?  Sure - manage to send me a bank transfer, and you can have 50,000 baht.  PM if you want to pursue the matter.

100,000 baht and you have a deal. I would do it just for fun.

[GinBoy2]

Obviously none of us can really give much advice on this, other than you getting on  plane!

 

What I would suggest is that for anyone who is thinking of buying or selling is to use an international real estate agent.

After we moved back to the US we used CBRE in Bangkok to sell our last rental condo.

 

I gave them power of attorney to transact the sale, and the money showed up in my US bank account two days later

 

One other thing to think about, did you give then the original FET so they can transfer the  funds?

[JusMe]

12 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

What I would suggest is that for anyone who is thinking of buying or selling is to use an international real estate agent.

 

One other thing to think about, did you give then the original FET so they can transfer the  funds?

I bought while actually there and knowing the people involved, so an international real estate agent wasn't a viable option.  Then I left it in the hands of the selling agent, who'd been a friend of mine for about 20 years.

 

I have given him the documents from my initial transfer of funds from my Canadian bank to the agent when I purchased the house about nine years ago.

[GinBoy2]

24 minutes ago, JusMe said:

I bought while actually there and knowing the people involved, so an international real estate agent wasn't a viable option.  Then I left it in the hands of the selling agent, who'd been a friend of mine for about 20 years.

 

I have given him the documents from my initial transfer of funds from my Canadian bank to the agent when I purchased the house about nine years ago.

You're in a bit of a tough spot there buddy.

 

I'm assuming that you handed over the chanote and the FET to your 'friend'.

 

Who knows what's actually going on, but certainly on the surface it doesn't sound good.

[JusMe]

I don't have any original copies of anything, but loads and loads of pdf files of the documents.  I have no idea what happened to originals.  Maybe the original FET of my transfer to purchase was left with the company my friend was working with at that time, before he had a year's non-competition agreement in which he set up a company servicing places before being able to get involved as an estate agent.

 

No, doesn't sound good, I'll admit.  Right now the silence is disconcerting.  At least I'm not desperate for the money, and have suffered greater losses (and profits) on other investments over the years.  Still, be good to get a chunk of the money that I did put into that house.

[GinBoy2]

1 hour ago, JusMe said:

I don't have any original copies of anything, but loads and loads of pdf files of the documents.  I have no idea what happened to originals.  Maybe the original FET of my transfer to purchase was left with the company my friend was working with at that time, before he had a year's non-competition agreement in which he set up a company servicing places before being able to get involved as an estate agent.

 

No, doesn't sound good, I'll admit.  Right now the silence is disconcerting.  At least I'm not desperate for the money, and have suffered greater losses (and profits) on other investments over the years.  Still, be good to get a chunk of the money that I did put into that house.

I know when I sold my last condo, I signed a power of attorney with CBRE so they could deal with the sale and the money transfer.

If you didn't do that, essentially the sale at the Land Office is fraudulent, and someone has forged your signature!

 

Edited March 28, 2019 by GinBoy2

[JusMe]

Yes, I did sign a PoA and had it witnessed here.  Sent both the hardcopy and pdf of it to the agent who sold the house, and who now hasn't forwarded the money from that sale to me.  As I recall without digging through my digital files, it was in Thai so I couldn't read the details.

[SteveK]

Can you not find someone in Canada who speaks fluent Thai to make a long distance phone call to the agency for you? When I've emailed companies in Thailand, it's very, very rare that I get a response (recent exceptions have been farang-run businesses). I had an issue with a gym in Bangkok charging my bank account after I had cancelled my membership and left the country, sent loads of emails with no response - luckily I had a friend in Thailand who called them up for me and the charges stopped.

 

It's easy for them to just press delete on your email. Not quite as simple with a phone call from someone speaking perfect Thai.

Edited March 28, 2019 by pr9spk

[JusMe]

I don't know anyone here who speaks Thai, fluently or otherwise.  And not much necessity to phone speaking Thai, as the agent speaks English and Swedish, and his partner (business & personal) speaks Thai and some English. 

 

So speaking to someone in their office in any language is unlikely to make any difference to emails which go unanswered.

 

Having left Thailand a number of years back now, I don't have any friends there other than the occasional farang passing through as a tourist, which is why I'm hoping someone on or connected to ThaiVisa can help out.

[SteveK]

Thais living abroad often live in quite close-knit communities. In the UK, I once struggled with translating a passage in Thai (this was many years ago), and went to a local Thai supermarket and asked - I had the translation the next day after the lady gave it to one of her friends, she wouldn't accept any money for it, even though I never bought anything in the shop because it was so expensive.

 

If you ask around, I'm sure you could find someone willing to earn $50 for a 5 minute phone call. Failing that there are bilingual Thai/English people on freelancing websites like upwork and Fiverr.com who would be willing to make a phone call on your behalf. If you've given up with emailing and phoning, you will either have to go in or give up.

 

Knowing how I have been treated on many occasions, I suspect that a Thai person calling might be able to get a bit further than someone speaking English.

Edited March 28, 2019 by pr9spk

[bojo]

You've been shafted big time.... thank goodness you have the wherewithal to carry on, many wouldn't have had.

Because you have no real interest in actually sorting out the missing funds...why is this thread still alive?

[SteveK]

Wish I was in a position to give up on 1.2 million baht! It might be a simple case of them wanting you to sign something, or they can't make an international transfer. In any case, they won't have much interest in getting hold of you because they will be earning interest on that money, or even secretly hoping that you don't claim it.

 

I'm sure you could find an excellent Thai lawyer to help you out, but if as others have suggested, that you have indeed been shafted, it's very likely that you won't get the money back. Personally, I don't think I would have left the country without getting the money first, but then it sounds like you earn a lot of money so it wasn't in your interests to hang around in Thailand.

[JusMe]

Wouldn't say I'm not interested in sorting out the missing funds, but I do have the wherewithal to manage without them.  Be quite a different matter if I was in any way desperate.

 

It could be that they just don't want to bother with the transfer, particularly as they do have the cash presumable in their own bank account (if it hasn't been used to cover other debts or costs) and would be earning some interest in BKBK.

 

I did contact Siam Legal, as their name came up first on an internet search, but who knows if they'd manage to actually retrieve anything, and they want cash up front, which kicks in my instinct to refuse sending good money after bad.  Spent enough in Thailand now and don't want to send anymore.

 

I left the country quite a long time before the money was there, and the house was up for sale for more than a year, so I wasn't in a position to hang about just waiting and hoping.  Left it all in the hands of my friend of twenty years.  See where that got me, eh?  ????

[KittenKong]

5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

100,000 baht and you have a deal. I would do it just for fun.

I will pay 101,000B not to have to do it. There is no fun in dealing with crooked and incompetent business people in Thailand. Even less fun in dealing with Thai lawyers.

[JusMe]

I was given a URL to follow which eventually led me to The Office of the Consumer Protection Board.  Meandering around there and looking at registering and getting a password, I found their conditions, one of which is:

The Office of Consumer Protection does not consider the protection of consumers or to cease to be considered in the following cases.

1. Complaints that consumers have the right to self litigation.

which means that if I can get a lawyer and do it myself, they're not interested.  Somehow that doesn't really surprise me.

[lust]

Forward me the information and I’ll get in contact with him. 

 

100,000baht if I get you your money. You can transfer to my RBC account. I’m also from Edmonton, ex P.P.C.L.I.

[Delight]

Just to clarify my mind. Can anyone -with direct experience -detail the process when buying a house on leased land.

In particular the legal documents involved.

Thanks in advance

[Destiny1990]

I think u have found some guys who will check up with that agent kindly let us know here what the outcome was. If ur house was sold and the buyer can prove that he paid ur agent then either u get all ur money or the farang agent will go to jail.

its a simple case in court if u have all the evidence.

[scubascuba3]

He had a neck/spine  surgery not too long ago, things kind of went down hill from there. 

When did this happen? sightings of him in the last few days so not sure how he can be in Oz? your source reliable?

[spidermike007]

12 hours ago, KittenKong said:

I will pay 101,000B not to have to do it. There is no fun in dealing with crooked and incompetent business people in Thailand. Even less fun in dealing with Thai lawyers.

Who said anything about lawyers? They are the last people in the world I would consult or use. These days, there are many ways to get a Thai person, especially one with a business, to pay up. Face is so important to many, and it can be used as tremendous leverage. My guess is, I would be able to get that money back within 30 days. He would simply do a Ponzi on another sucker, to get me my money, as the pressure would be too great. I have done this before. The last guy eventually told me that he needed to pay me back my money, so he could get his life back, as I had become so annoying, so persevering, so overwhelming, he could not function! That is the key. You never, ever leave them alone. The biggest mistake this poster made, was not acting right away. 

[BestB]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

On 3/28/2019 at 12:53 PM, BestB said:

He had a neck/spine  surgery not too long ago, things kind of went down hill from there. 

When did this happen? sightings of him in the last few days so not sure how he can be in Oz? your source reliable?

Sightings.so you do not personally know the guy but “sightings “ 

 

on your next “sighting” why do not you ask him yourself where and when he has neck surgery 

[scubascuba3]

Sightings.so you do not personally know the guy but “sightings “ 
 
on your next “sighting” why do not you ask him yourself where and when he has neck surgery 

so you don't know, ok

[KittenKong]

10 hours ago, JusMe said:

I was given a URL to follow which eventually led me to The Office of the Consumer Protection Board.  Meandering around there and looking at registering and getting a password, I found their conditions, one of which is:

The Office of Consumer Protection does not consider the protection of consumers or to cease to be considered in the following cases.

1. Complaints that consumers have the right to self litigation.

which means that if I can get a lawyer and do it myself, they're not interested.  Somehow that doesn't really surprise me.

I have some first hand experience of the OCPB. Whatever that phrase means (and it is not at all clear to me what it does mean) I know that they will get involved in this sort of issue if you approach them the right way.

 

You will surely need to go there, in person, preferably with someone who speaks both Thai and English.

Edited March 29, 2019 by KittenKong

[scorecard]

13 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

I have some first hand experience of the OCPB. Whatever that phrase means (and it is not at all clear to me what it does mean) I know that they will get involved in this sort of issue if you approach them the right way.

 

You will surely need to go there, in person, preferably with someone who speaks both Thai and English.

Agree, they have a good reputation and give the same attention to both Thai and non-Thai folks.

[JusMe]

I will most definitely keep the forum updated on any developments.

 

As for the OCPB, there is clearly no way that I could visit their office as I'm not in the country and have no intention of getting back there.  I don't know if they'll do anything if I try to make any kind of "complaint" by email.

[Delight]

If I were you I would not waste your time or money

In my view you are a victim of fraud.

Your signature has been copied

If I was organizing this fraud I would ensure that a lawyer with notarial status witnessed the crime. He /she  would verify that it was you who signed.

You would require very deep pockets to take a lawyer with such credentials to court.

Suspect if you visited Thailand –the agents would simply deny all knowledge of you.

  I can only offer sympathy.

[cardinalblue]

Time to kick the tires....sonewhat surprised you didn’t have a game plan with your agent in advance of your departure of what you wanted to have transpired.... 

 

Sounds like you let your guard down and this agent had possibly taken you to the cleaners....

 

it’s all gets down to whether this money is important to you or not...whether you want to fight for what is legally yours vs hoping for a good end with minimal inconvenience and effort....

[xylophone]

On 3/28/2019 at 9:57 AM, balo said:

Can you give us his name ? I have friends in the Scandinavian community that could look into this. If it's really a scam and he's a part of it, the police and Big Joke should be very interested in this case. 

 

On 3/28/2019 at 11:50 AM, JusMe said:

I would name him here, but I think there's a policy about naming-and-shaming that would delete my posts, so if someone can make personal contact, PM me and I'll let you know.

Jeez man, balo has said he can investigate on your behalf..........so why don't YOU PM balo with the info and he can follow up for you. Not too hard is it!

[murraynz]

On 3/28/2019 at 5:52 AM, sanemax said:

Get in touch with Sharky in Pattaya

idont think he is in pattaya anymore--havent seen him for a cple of years ???