Condo SOLD price

[masterpasser]

I am acting as Executor for a deceased friends estate.

A condo is part of the estate and the beneficiary wants an unrealistic sale price based on what other condos are being offered for sale.

The true value is historical (recent) sell prices.

Unfortunately I cannot access any database that would give me this information.

If I google condos sold  , google defaults to condos for sale!

any ideas ?  

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, masterpasser said:

f I google condos sold  , google defaults to condos for sale!

any ideas ?  

Tell beneficiary to sell it themselves.

[moonseeker]

Hipflat shows numbers for some well know places. Regards. M. 

[newnative]

   Good advice to check Hipflat to get some idea on pricing.  I would list the condo with as many agencies as you can--starting with the biggest.  You might also check with some agents regarding pricing.  Good luck.

[thaitero]

Not easy.
On the internet you find ads with unrealistic high pricing and there is also too low ( fake/old) pricing ads which are only there to collect contact info from potential buyers..When you contact you are offered something else

[Skallywag]

There are web sites and real estate agents that will give you the average baht per square meter of condos for sale.  Depends on age of condo, city, area within city, amenities on property etc...

[beautifulthailand99]

If you stick it on here I'm sure quite a lot of folk will chip in with their opinions. 

[Basil B]

Have you approached the JP, short of the land registry he will best know what units are changing hands for.

If he is a honest guy he will be looking for you to get the best price, he has no interest in cheapening his condominium. 

When I was selling my unit I had to go to my JP's office to get a free of debt letter, I was asked by the woman I was talking to how much, when I said how much I had shouts from the office of too low, 4 women in the office on their phones shouting wait me get you a better price, unfortunately I was leaving in a few days and had a buyer lined up, (you may say "Sold Subject to Contract").

Really depends on how long the beneficiaries are prepared to wait, you can always find a buyer but the quicker they want to sell the less they will get for it.

[thaitero]

34 minutes ago, Basil B said:

I was talking to how much, when I said how much I had shouts from the office of too low, 4 women in the office on their phones shouting wait me get you a better price, unfortunately I was leaving in a few days and had a buyer lined up, (you may say "Sold Subject to Contract").

Really depends on how long the beneficiaries are prepared to wait, you can always find a buyer but the quicker they want to sell the less they will get for it.

People at condo office are many times just not helping like you thought without their own agenda. If they find you a buyer, it is not free but many times their % is lower than official realestateagents so of cource worth of asking..

[KittenKong]

Asking prices are often way over the top here and everyone and his dog will try and muscle in to get some commission if they possibly can, and that usually involves asking prices going up.

 

Nowhere are the real prices listed as even at the Land Office there is massive obfuscation.

 

Lies, lies and more lies.

 

[moonseeker]

What condo are we talking? 

[KittenKong]

42 minutes ago, Basil B said:

Have you approached the JP, short of the land registry he will best know what units are changing hands for. 

If he is a honest guy......

 ...... have him stuffed and mounted and put on display because he is unique.

 

I would never trust anyone in any way connected with real estate here. To do so would be utter insanity.

[david555]

2 hours ago, moonseeker said:

Hipflat shows numbers for some well know places. Regards. M. 

HIPFLAT prices are  Based on asking prices.... , the sold prices for condos is a very kept secret thing by real estate …. just saw once in a while the real sold price published on their own  adverts...."white rhino's" 

[brokenbone]

he doesnt understand asking/wishing price is completely

uncorrelated to value.

dont piss away time on him, tell him to cover your expenses

if any and sell it himself

[bkk6060]

Probably the largest purchase anyone will make here with absolutely no transparency.  No multiple listing service, no readily availability  sales history.

Another thing is the terms.  Agents I have spoken to say many who are lucky enough to sell, are carrying back paper.

Maybe you put 25 percent down and they carry the rest for up to 10 years of payments in some cases interest free.

But who knows much of anything the real estate industry here generally is kind of a joke.

[bkk6060]

3 hours ago, KittenKong said:

 ...... have him stuffed and mounted and put on display because he is unique.

 

I would never trust anyone in any way connected with real estate here. To do so would be utter insanity.

I have a friend I play golf with and his wife is an agent I would trust.

But generally, I agree with you it seems like the wild west of real estate.

[newnative]

    It seems any time the topic is real estate, agents come in for a bashing.   It's certainly true that there are some bad agents out there.  But, in my experience, there have been more good ones.   And, it's not the easiest job.  There's no MLS, so it's a struggle for agents to know all that's for sale for a client to see.  With no door lockboxes, agents have to arrange in advance to get into each property they show, a sometimes not so easy task with owners often hard to locate.  And, buyers can be difficult and fickle to work with, as well--I would never have the patience to be an agent.

     Good or bad, here's what I know for sure.  In 9 years here my partner and I have sold 16 condos in Thailand, 2 in Rayong and 14 in Pattaya, all at a profit.  3 were sold on our own; the rest were sold with the help of agents.  We've never lost a deposit or really had any bad experiences. We had one buyer back out of a sale but we kept the deposit per the contract and soon found another buyer--with an agent's help.

     Without agents, it's doubtful we would have found buyers for all those condos.  It's highly likely that our next condo sale will also happen with an agent's involvement.  We always try to treat agents with respect and mostly that respect is returned.

     

[KittenKong]

11 hours ago, newnative said:

Good or bad, here's what I know for sure.  In 9 years here my partner and I have sold 16 condos in Thailand, 2 in Rayong and 14 in Pattaya, all at a profit.  3 were sold on our own; the rest were sold with the help of agents.

I dont think that is likely unless you buy off-plan, or you buy fire sales, or you add value in some way. I know no one here who has shown a profit after costs when buying a normal condo on the open market and selling it on again in similar condition on the open market within 5 years. And I dare say that some people in Bangkok bought condos in areas where after a few years a new BTS station was built, and that would surely have done them some good. In Pattaya I will have to wait for the monorail or the casinos.

I do know some people who bought decades ago and who have sold at a profit, but that seems to be more to do with land values rising than anything else.
I also know people who bought shells or wrecks and renovated them and sold at a profit.
I also know people who bought from the dead or dying, or the desperate to leave, and so paid well under the usual advertised prices. In some cases as little as 30% of the usual asking price.
I also know people who bought condos at knock-down prices in rigged auctions as a result of insider knowledge, and the ones who got away with it are not complaining.
I also know people who bought when the Baht was cheap (for them) and who can now show a big increase in value when converting back into the currency they bought with, but that is down to currency movements not property value movements.
I also know people who bought at condo launch parties and flipped the purchase before completion, but at the same time I know people who bought off-plan and who lost everything or are still sitting on completed units that they can neither sell nor rent at any price that makes sense in relation to what they paid.

And of course I know of people who bought into the Waterfront, or Ocean1Tower, or any of a hundred other white elephants. They dont even have a chanote to wipe their backsides with.

 

I wont even start on the highly tedious and unpleasant experience of dealing with Thai contractors and suppliers and agents and the Land Office, and generally getting services turned on and working. This is something I would like to avoid completely if at all possible, just as I would like to avoid contracting syphilis or getting haemorrhoids.

 

Thai property looks like an appalling investment to me, unless perhaps you buy land somewhere and hold it for 10 years or more. That said, I did buy my condo and over the years it has saved me a lot of money on rent and even if I sell at a loss I will show a profit. But it is certainly not an investment in the way that other property I owned in the UK and Europe was. Not even close.

 

[newnative]

35 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

I dont think that is likely unless you buy off-plan, or you buy fire sales, or you add value in some way. I know no one here who has shown a profit after costs when buying a normal condo on the open market and selling it on again in similar condition on the open market within 5 years. And I dare say that some people in Bangkok bought condos in areas where after a few years a new BTS station was built, and that would surely have done them some good. In Pattaya I will have to wait for the monorail or the casinos.

I do know some people who bought decades ago and who have sold at a profit, but that seems to be more to do with land values rising than anything else.
I also know people who bought shells or wrecks and renovated them and sold at a profit.
I also know people who bought from the dead or dying, or the desperate to leave, and so paid well under the usual advertised prices. In some cases as little as 30% of the usual asking price.
I also know people who bought condos at knock-down prices in rigged auctions as a result of insider knowledge, and the ones who got away with it are not complaining.
I also know people who bought when the Baht was cheap (for them) and who can now show a big increase in value when converting back into the currency they bought with, but that is down to currency movements not property value movements.
I also know people who bought at condo launch parties and flipped the purchase before completion, but at the same time I know people who bought off-plan and who lost everything or are still sitting on completed units that they can neither sell nor rent at any price that makes sense in relation to what they paid.

And of course I know of people who bought into the Waterfront, or Ocean1Tower, or any of a hundred other white elephants. They dont even have a chanote to wipe their backsides with.

 

I wont even start on the highly tedious and unpleasant experience of dealing with Thai contractors and suppliers and agents and the Land Office, and generally getting services turned on and working. This is something I would like to avoid completely if at all possible, just as I would like to avoid contracting syphilis or getting haemorrhoids.

 

Thai property looks like an appalling investment to me, unless perhaps you buy land somewhere and hold it for 10 years or more. That said, I did buy my condo and over the years it has saved me a lot of money on rent and even if I sell at a loss I will show a profit. But it is certainly not an investment in the way that other property I owned in the UK and Europe was. Not even close.

 

     Interesting post, as always.  Your post could serve as a roadmap as to how we were able to profit on each of our condo sales.  You mention you don't know anyone who has sold a condo for a profit after having it for 5 years and not making any improvements.  That's the first thing--we don't keep a condo for 5 years.  Selling 16 condos in 9 years means we have not been holding them long.  Everything we sell is new and fresh, not worn out and tired.

     Next, your post mentions some possible ways that one could buy a condo and maybe make a profit.  First, buying off-plan.  5 of our condos were bought off-plan or near project completion.  All projects were completed, either on time or early, with no Waterfront-type problems. To minimize risk, we only buy off-plan from well-known, large developers.  3 of our off-plan condos were at Centric Sea and The Base--pretty difficult to not make money on either of them.

     Second, buying a shell.  We did this 7 times.  One of the Rayong condos was a shell and we did 7 View Talay condo shells, hopping from VT3 to VT5C to VT5D and, finally, VT7.  We lucked out with our timing and did most of these our first few years here when there was not so much condo competition and View Talay was one of the first places people looked for a condo--including my partner and me.

    Third, adding value in some way.  I think this applies to all the condos we have done. When we have finished, a condo is much better than what we started with or we have failed.

    So far, we have not bought a condo at auction or from someone who has died.  Although, we came close to buying the latter but the timing wasn't right; different timing and we probably would have as it was a good buy.  In today's market with so much competition, you need to give yourself a head start by getting a great price to begin with. 

    One our latest condos could be classified as a combination fire sale/wreck and the other is our off-plan condo in Bangkok, which we just finished renovating yesterday.  One may ask, why are you renovating a brand new condo?   Answer, to fix the developer's mistakes in design--such as changing the bathroom door to a sliding door so the bathroom functions much better, re-doing the very awkward, poor quality, and badly designed bedroom armoire, adding more storage with a refrigerator cabinet, hiding the kitchen clothes washer behind new cabinet doors, adding shelves, wallpaper, lighting, and so on.  

     You are right that dealing with contractors and all the other involved in doing a renovation can involve some headaches.  It's definitely not for everyone--but that works for us, too.  We just need to find one buyer who likes what we have done and buys our condo because he or she doesn't want to do the work.

    

[watcharacters]

21 hours ago, Basil B said:

Really depends on how long the beneficiaries are prepared to wait,

 

 

Do beneficiaries actually have a legal say in the time frame of selling a property in Thailand?

 

 

[watcharacters]

13 hours ago, newnative said:

  It seems any time the topic is real estate, agents come in for a bashing. 

 

 

I wouldn't say the bashing is limited to just agents.

 

The whole real estate industry in Thailand is based on a slippery premise.

 

 

[NCC1701A]

13 hours ago, newnative said:

In 9 years here my partner and I

are you or partner Thai? speak Thai? what country are you from originally?

[Basil B]

1 hour ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

Do beneficiaries actually have a legal say in the time frame of selling a property in Thailand?

 

 

Suppose the executors have a legal obligation to get the right price. 

Acting as executor under whose law? Thai or other?

Often executors are known to beneficiaries, may even be an beneficiary themselves (permissible under England and Welsh law), suppose you can not ignore the opinions of beneficiaries particularly if you are family or friends, but the law of the land(s) have to be the overriding consideration.

Personally look for someone who is professional enough to give you a unbiased valuation, who has indemnity that you can sue for malpractice if they get it wrong.

Get it in writing from the beneficiaries if they wish you to get get the best price or "fire salvage"?

But beneficiaries may not be the only people with an interest in the estate there may be creditors too and if the estate happens to be technically bankrupt they may hold you responsible for any losses if you start selling off the estate to cheaply.  

 

One thing for sure I would never agree to be named as an executor, warning to all.

[newnative]

6 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

are you or partner Thai? speak Thai? what country are you from originally?

Partner is Thai and I am American. We lived in the US before moving to Thailand.  I don't speak Thai--partner does most of the communication with contractors.  

[newnative]

4 hours ago, Basil B said:

Suppose the executors have a legal obligation to get the right price. 

Acting as executor under whose law? Thai or other?

Often executors are known to beneficiaries, may even be an beneficiary themselves (permissible under England and Welsh law), suppose you can not ignore the opinions of beneficiaries particularly if you are family or friends, but the law of the land(s) have to be the overriding consideration.

Personally look for someone who is professional enough to give you a unbiased valuation, who has indemnity that you can sue for malpractice if they get it wrong.

Get it in writing from the beneficiaries if they wish you to get get the best price or "fire salvage"?

But beneficiaries may not be the only people with an interest in the estate there may be creditors too and if the estate happens to be technically bankrupt they may hold you responsible for any losses if you start selling off the estate to cheaply.  

 

One thing for sure I would never agree to be named as an executor, warning to all.

  I think most people have no idea the amount of work involved in being an Executor.  It's not something to agree to do without some thought, in my opinion.

[Basil B]

Just out of interests are there property auctions in Thai?

 

Could just put it into an auction and be done with it.

[Spaniel]

29 minutes ago, newnative said:

  I think most people have no idea the amount of work involved in being an Executor.  It's not something to agree to do without some thought, in my opinion.

 

29 minutes ago, newnative said:

  I think most people have no idea the amount of work involved in being an Executor.  It's not something to agree to do without some thought, in my opinion.

An old friend recently asked me to be the Executor of his estate here in Thailand, which consists entirely of his condo in Pattaya which he is leaving to his sister in the USA.     I am one of those people that have no idea of the amount of work involved in being a Executor.    Maybe you can expand a bit on the amount of work involved?

[david555]

1 hour ago, Basil B said:

Just out of interests are there property auctions in Thai?

 

Could just put it into an auction and be done with it.

Contact your bank , as  some has lists for repossessed condos because defaulting mortgage payments , also Kasikorn delivers escrow service when buying a condo for a fee

[newnative]

1 hour ago, Spaniel said:

 

An old friend recently asked me to be the Executor of his estate here in Thailand, which consists entirely of his condo in Pattaya which he is leaving to his sister in the USA.     I am one of those people that have no idea of the amount of work involved in being a Executor.    Maybe you can expand a bit on the amount of work involved?

  When my father died 2 of my sisters were executors and there was a lot to do--going through probate, notifications of his death to agencies, financial institutions, organizations, and so on.  His US government pension had to be re-worked and transferred to my mother--which was surprisingly time-consuming and took 3 or 4 months to finally get straightened out.  They had to pull together all his financials to do a final joint tax return--not an easy task--and, dispose of his autos, sell the house, etc.  He owned a lot of stocks and they had to all be changed from his name to a family trust that had to be set up--and probably a lot of other stuff I am forgetting.  Of course, in your case they'll be less work but still things that need to be done--Thai Visa probably has a thread on what's involved in Thailand.  

    

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, Spaniel said:

An old friend recently asked me to be the Executor of his estate here in Thailand, which consists entirely of his condo in Pattaya which he is leaving to his sister in the USA.   .....   Maybe you can expand a bit on the amount of work involved?

If it is only one Pattaya condo and nothing else then very little work. It would be unusual however for people to have only one condo and nothing else at all. Most people might also have a car, a pension, savings, bank accounts, other investments .......