Israel's Netanyahu says plans to annex settlements in West Bank if reelected

[notmyself]

6 hours ago, Jingthing said:

That post is all over the place but since you referred to me, I will reply to that. The point about the election being decisive about the two state solution is that if Bibi wins, he has promised to officially annex the current west bank settlements. If he does that, any hope (which of course has been very dim for along time) of a negotiated two state solution probably would be totally finished. I agree of course that the west bank settlements are illegal but I think in a potential negotiated peace deal some of the settlements close to Jerusalem could be retained by Israel and Israel would never agree to anything that wouldn't involve ironclad security guarantees and protections that no doubt would diminish any purist Palestinian state independence but arguably better than nothing. I would argue that it would be. 

As far as the opposition to Bibi, no there is no policy position to abandon the current settlements but there isn't a promise to annex them either.

Surely you get the difference?
Bibi if he wins and fulfills his promise -- two state solution game over.

Opposition -- still a faint hope.

Again, faint hope better than no hope, eh? 

 

Assigning probability to that degree would force me to say that it's possible the world is indeed flat. It's all by the by really because Israel are never going to give the land back anyway.

[observer90210]

24 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Huh!?!

This is getting bizarre. You didn't say anything anti-Semitic so why the over defensiveness? 

I totally agree. Bibi should be defeated. He's clearly a criminal just like his good buddy in Washington. 

But he'll probably win anyway.

Yes his chances are very strong...as he is a crafty networker and has both ???????? +  ???????? in his pocket.

Edited April 9, 2019 by observer90210

[Jingthing]

No.
 
I react to the thread, you react to one post. And then my reaction is 'splitting hairs'. You just have to accept that some people are able to see things in a broad perspective.

It wasn't just one post as I've already explained. Give it a rest. This is just a forum thread. We're not in Oslo making history here.

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[Jingthing]

Yes his chances are very strong...as he is a crafty networker and has both [emoji631] +  [emoji635] in his pocket.

He does and he should finally be losing by now. It sucks that he'll probably win due to outside finagling.

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[symiotic]

4 hours ago, candide said:

It's not clear for me either. I don't know of any bar mitzvah ever occurred in the Altai mountains. ????

It is the difference between Zionism and Judaism.  The Neanderthal thing relates to the former, back to old days of Nordic (& Norman) racism, basing intelligence on the length of the forehead i.e. bigger head is bigger intelligence.  It is very easy to discern in Worldwide politics where political families have overarching connections: where Political Revolutions moved from Europe then to Russia then to China & finally to South East Asia (from Revolution to 'Republic of ...').  Look at the number of politicians who have larger than average cranium...  one might correlate this to Prayut or Xi Jinping or Hun Sen & Netanyahu where it is easily recognisable (compared to the average citizen).  If you do this with enough countries you will find it significantly significant.  Don't shoot the messenger.

Edited April 9, 2019 by symiotic

[Jingthing]

The messenger of crackpot racial theories about cranium sizes you mean? Clearly ridiculous poppycock.

 

I do certainly agree that Zionism and Judaism are not the same thing. The former is a political ideology that is about Jewish people having self determination in a national homeland and the latter is a religion.

 

 

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[symiotic]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

The messenger of crackpot racial theories about cranium sizes you mean? Clearly ridiculous poppycock.

Really so these 'Cranium Sizes' reflect a normal citizen (as it would if there were Democracy)?
Clearly they are well above average.  If this is the case across the spectrum, you have to ask why, or you do, I know why, like I've already said.

[Jingthing]

Really so these 'Cranium Sizes' reflect a normal citizen (as it would if there were Democracy)?
Clearly they are well above average.  If this is the case across the spectrum, you have to ask why, or you do, I know why, like I've already said.

Absurd.

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[Jingthing]

Well, I'm very sorry to report that it appears my prediction appears to have been accurate.

 

Bibi prevails. (Ugh.)

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/after-election-all-eyes-on-trump-to-respond-to-pms-annexation-gambit/

 

<<Headline plus two sentence subheadline plus first sentence included>>

 

Quote

 

After election, all eyes on Trump to respond to PM’s annexation gambit

 

Netanyahu vowed to extend Israeli sovereignty over parts of the West Bank. Now that he’s clinched victory, will the White House peace team push back?

 

WASHINGTON — With Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s election victory Tuesday night all but assured, US President Donald Trump faces a moment of truth.

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

24 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Well, I'm very sorry to report that it appears my prediction appears to have been accurate.

 

Bibi prevails. (Ugh.)

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/after-election-all-eyes-on-trump-to-respond-to-pms-annexation-gambit/

 

<<Headline plus two sentence subheadline plus first sentence included>>

 

 

A reason to dislike the Israelis for voting him into office again?

 

It's depressing that this saga is obviously going to last for decades, if not centuries.

[Jingthing]

A reason to dislike the Israelis for voting him into office again?
 
It's depressing that this saga is obviously going to last for decades, if not centuries.

No it's not a reason to dislike all Israelis any more than 45 being elected sort of is a reason to dislike all Americans. But since when did people need a good reason to dislike Israelis?

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[bristolboy]

32 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

No it's not a reason to dislike all Israelis any more than 45 being elected sort of is a reason to dislike all Americans. But since when did people need a good reason to dislike Israelis?

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edited

Edited April 10, 2019 by bristolboy

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

No it's not a reason to dislike all Israelis any more than 45 being elected sort of is a reason to dislike all Americans. But since when did people need a good reason to dislike Israelis?

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Netanyahu Isn't the Problem. The Israeli People Are

"The apartheid did not start with him and will not end with his departure"

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-netanyahu-isn-t-the-problem-the-israeli-people-are-1.7020051

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

Netanyahu Isn't the Problem. The Israeli People Are

"The apartheid did not start with him and will not end with his departure"

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-netanyahu-isn-t-the-problem-the-israeli-people-are-1.7020051

Cheap hit. Mr. Levy is not saying everyone should dislike all Israeli people in that article. You posted that, presumably, to assert that. That's just wrong. People shouldn't dislike all people of a nation based on their government. I detest Russian dictator Putin and know he is very popular there, but that doesn't justify in any rational way disliking all Russian people. Do you think Mr. Levy in writing a leftist article directed at leftist Israelis was saying all non-Israelis should dislike all Israelis because of the messed up politics there? Do you reckon he was saying people should dislike him too because after all he's an Israeli? How about his kids? Israeli Arabs too? How about Netta? 

 

There really is enough hate going around all over the place concerning the Israeli Palestinian conflict without disingenuously misusing an article by an Israeli dissenter to either directly or indirectly try to justify disliking ALL Israeli people.

Oh, the humanity. 

Edited April 10, 2019 by Jingthing

[bristolboy]

28 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Cheap hit. Mr. Levy is not saying everyone should dislike all Israeli people in that article. You posted that, presumably, to assert that. That's just wrong. People shouldn't dislike all people of a nation based on their government. I detest Russian dictator Putin and know he is very popular there, but that doesn't justify in any rational way disliking all Russian people. Do you think Mr. Levy in writing a leftist article directed at leftist Israelis was saying all non-Israelis should dislike all Israelis because of the messed up politics there? Do you reckon he was saying people should dislike him too because after all he's an Israeli? How about his kids? Israeli Arabs too? How about Netta? 

 

There really is enough hate going around all over the place concerning the Israeli Palestinian conflict without disingenuously misusing an article by an Israeli dissenter to either directly or indirectly try to justify disliking ALL Israeli people.

Oh, the humanity. 

I agree that not all the Israeli people are the problem. But it's clear that as far as repression and the advance of apartheid goes, the majority are. And that goes for many of the so-called centrists or leftists like Gantz. In a country where there is one set of laws for one group of people, and another for the rest, th growth of this kind of attitude is inevitable. It's hard to believe now but there was a lot of pushback when Golda Meir decided to colonize the West Bank.

[Jingthing]

I agree that not all the Israeli people are the problem. But it's clear that as far as repression and the advance of apartheid goes, the majority are. And that goes for many of the so-called centrists or leftists like Gantz. In a country where there is one set of laws for one group of people, and another for the rest, th growth of this kind of attitude is inevitable. It's hard to believe now but there was a lot of pushback when Golda Meir decided to colonize the West Bank.

Ambiguous language. I think you need to distinguish between Israel Arab citizens and Arabs under the Palestinian authority. In any case obviously things are very messed up and keeping Netanyahu is disheartening. I have no answers except that if they go ahead and annex the west bank I don't think there will be any credible pushback for calling Israel an apartheid state. Assuming they won't grant the Arabs there Israeli citizenship which of course they won't do.

 

A big problem though with labeling Israel an apartheid state is that in people's minds that suggests the same situation as apartheid south Africa. But they really aren't the same thing. Israel has a very specific historical context.

 

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[Prissana Pescud]

On 4/9/2019 at 2:31 PM, Jingthing said:

Aha. That makes some sense. But what's with the bizarre connection of Neanderthals to Jews? 

 

OK, here is a clue.

Like I said I detected a connection in his bizarre rant to the DEBUNKED Khazarian Jewish conversion theory for European Jews. 

This (dated) article links the Khazar thing to Neanderthals.

So it seems he posted a flavor of that sort of thing that I just haven't seen before.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/1997/08/so-are-the-neanderthals-still-jews.html

 

This is a race/hate issue and should be deleted by moderators.

If you ever engage in modern non conspiracy science,

you would probably assume that early modern man absorbed neanterthals.

Some modern peoples still show some neanderthal facial and structural similarities.

Who cares, we are both products of becoming human. And we have not got there yet. lol

[Prissana Pescud]

On 4/9/2019 at 4:13 AM, notmyself said:

 

The same is true of many and especially Iran who have a huge young and well educated population. 

There are many countries that repress the views of the "new" young people .

My own country is one of them.

Only the young can save the world. Because we old farts are not interested in anything except ourselves

[Prissana Pescud]

On 4/9/2019 at 3:47 AM, notmyself said:

 

Plenty of atheist Jews but the power is held by the geriatric extreme right wing old guard. Same in most of the middle east.

 

Same in all the "big" countries in the west. They all suck on the same nipple dummy.

1. Create hate.

2. Create intolerance.

3. Spread the rumour of fear.

4. Spread the story of racial superiority

5. Make the colour of your eyes, hair and skin an issue.

I think you do not have to build a physical wall, we already build walls already

[Prissana Pescud]

On 4/9/2019 at 2:38 PM, Jingthing said:

 

I was replying to YOUR post that said --

 

 

If Israel backed up to 1948 borders they couldn't exist. So I take that demand as snarky code of not really supporting the right of Israel to exist. Now the 1948 borders might have been fine IF most of the Arab world hadn't immediately invaded 1948 Israel explicitly trying to wipe them off the map. Miraculously, Israel beat those aggressors. But if that works for you, advocating for borders that you know full well Israel could NEVER agree to now and could never continue to exit with such borders, enjoy that position. Back in the real world, holding to a demand like that is a waste of time for anyone at all serious about seeking a peaceful solution. 

I think the world would feel safer if Israel did not exist.

Not for Jews to exist. No one demands that right

Remove Israel from the equation and most middle east problems disappear.

 It is interesting to follow right wing extremists in Israel and US. 

They both appear to follow a similar aggressive, intolerant agenda. And then appear to be confused at the backlash..

Oh well, new ignorant societies trying to find their own world in a world that is more intellectual than they are.

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, Prissana Pescud said:

I think the world would feel safer if Israel did not exist.

Not for Jews to exist. No one demands that right

Remove Israel from the equation and most middle east problems disappear.
…

Muddled wording.

No one demands what right?

[Prissana Pescud]

8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Muddled wording.

No one demands what right?

In simple terms, the"state" of Israel ceased to exist more than 2000 years ago. (and in history, it existed for a very short time, a pathetic short time)

I wonder if we should resurrect countries like Moab, Hittites and the like and restore land to them as we did with some "jews".

Not talking about the many Jewish cults,  Not talking about your religious views. It is not true history that some land belongs to anyone.

Meanwhile, please feel free to kill each other. That is true intelligence by Israeli standards. While you kill each other, you don't bother us

 

 

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, Prissana Pescud said:

In simple terms, the"state" of Israel ceased to exist more than 2000 years ago. (and in history, it existed for a very short time, a pathetic short time)

I wonder if we should resurrect countries like Moab, Hittites and the like and restore land to them as we did with some "jews".

Not talking about the many Jewish cults,  Not talking about your religious views. It is not true history that some land belongs to anyone.

Meanwhile, please feel free to kill each other. That is true intelligence by Israeli standards. While you kill each other, you don't bother us

 

 

It sounds like you don't respect the right of the state of Israel to exist within any borders. Join the crowd. That is DEMONIZATION. So sorry, you won't win that.

[bristolboy]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Ambiguous language. I think you need to distinguish between Israel Arab citizens and Arabs under the Palestinian authority. In any case obviously things are very messed up and keeping Netanyahu is disheartening. I have no answers except that if they go ahead and annex the west bank I don't think there will be any credible pushback for calling Israel an apartheid state. Assuming they won't grant the Arabs there Israeli citizenship which of course they won't do.

 

A big problem though with labeling Israel an apartheid state is that in people's minds that suggests the same situation as apartheid south Africa. But they really aren't the same thing. Israel has a very specific historical context.

 

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Palestinians are under the dubious authority of the Palestinian government. A government without much in the way of teeth and unequal to an occupying power. Really a convenient way for the Israeli government to evade responsibility for their welfare.

As for how Israel got to where it is now. Is it really so different from South Africa? Remember that lying Zionist slogan? "A land without people for a people without land." Just as the Africans didn't matter to the Boers and the English, the Palestinians didn't matter to the Zionists.

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Palestinians are under the dubious authority of the Palestinian government. A government without much in the way of teeth and unequal to an occupying power. Really a convenient way for the Israeli government to evade responsibility for their welfare.

As for how Israel got to where it is now. Is it really so different from South Africa? Remember that lying Zionist slogan? "A land without people for a people without land." Just as the Africans didn't matter to the Boers and the English, the Palestinians didn't matter to the Zionists.

Israel and South Africa simply don't share the same history and they won't share the same future either.

I'm resigned to people calling Israel an apartheid state at this point.

I think that is reasonably acceptable and reasonably accurate. 

Very sadly.

But Israel is not South Africa. That's just wrong. 
There can be different flavors of apartheid and in this case, these two are different flavors.

North Korea has an authoritarian leader.

Russia has an authoritarian leader.

Venezuela has an authoritarian leader.

North Korea is not Russia is not Venezuela, etc.

They are specific situations. 

You can share the same general words but rarely the same situations.

 

Edited April 10, 2019 by Jingthing

[bristolboy]

18 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Israel and South Africa simply don't share the same history and they won't share the same future either.

I'm resigned to people calling Israel an apartheid state at this point.

I think that is reasonably acceptable and reasonably accurate. 

Very sadly.

But Israel is not South Africa. That's just wrong. 
There can be different flavors of apartheid and in this case, these two are different flavors.

North Korea has an authoritarian leader.

Russia has an authoritarian leader.

Venezuela has an authoritarian leader.

North Korea is not Russia is not Venezuela, etc.

They are specific situations. 

You can share the same general words but rarely the same situations.

 

But it is getting worse. And I can't see any reason why it won't continue to do so. As that Haaretz writer pointed out, Netanyahu is not the problem. What is considered a moderate position in Israel now, would have been considered extremism 50 years ago.

[Jingthing]

Just now, bristolboy said:

But it is getting worse. And I can't see any reason why it won't continue to do so. As that Haaretz writer pointed out, Netanyahu is not the problem. What is considered a moderate position in Israel now, would have been considered extremism 50 years ago.

I certainly don't have the answer. Haven't read any on this forum either that are anything close to realistic. 

[symiotic]

27 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I certainly don't have the answer. Haven't read any on this forum either that are anything close to realistic. 

Here's the answer get the UN to reinstate Resolution 3379: 'Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination.'  Clearly flaunting International Law shows the continuation of this discrimination.

[bristolboy]

25 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I certainly don't have the answer. Haven't read any on this forum either that are anything close to realistic. 

That's because there is no answer. It's just going to keep on getting worse and worse. This is the inevitable result of unequal treatment under the law. The one thing that has kept Israel from turning into an absolute nightmare is its independent judiciary and police. According to the NY Times, they are now under threat too.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/10/world/middleeast/benjamin-netanyahu-israel-election.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

 

[Jingthing]

14 minutes ago, symiotic said:

Here's the answer get the UN to reinstate Resolution 3379: 'Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination.'  Clearly flaunting International Law shows the continuation of this discrimination.

Yeah, that kind of inflammatory action by the U.N. is going to motivate Israel to change. Wanna buy a nice bridge?