Private hospitals overcharging ‘unreasonably’

[Pilotman]

1 hour ago, Peterphuket said:

Thanks for this advice, I'll give it a try next time, when I need an hospital.

Just don't take your kids there 

[scorecard]

1 minute ago, Pilotman said:

because the same crap doctors work in both.  It may be cheaper, but it is rarely any better medical treatment.  

I have one example of doctors working in both;  a 5 star place in CM, specific specialist one short consultation was 3,500Baht (about 4 years back).

 

A few days later my son took me to a very close by good reputation government hospital. Saw the same doctor, same conversation, bill 100Baht.

 

 

[sambum]

"He warned that directors of any entity deliberately ignoring the order risked a jail term of up to three months and/or a maximum fine of Bt5,000. "

 

Bet they're quaking in their shoes now - 5.000 baht - WOW! Get the family silver polished!

[Pilotman]

8 minutes ago, ebean001 said:

the price at RAM in chiang mai has gone up significantly. the last time my daughter was there for 2 nights with a cough. When we left, they had 11 drugs in a basket for her to buy. Each one said...take before breakfast. I asked the 4 nurses...would you give all of these drugs to your daughter before breakfast.

The response...NONE of course. then a nurse said...that is what the doctor ordered. Hummmm. Not much of a nurse. No push back. Just plain greedy for money people. I bought 0 drugs from them. I am upset I did not keep the bill for proof.

2 nights was 51,000b with a cough.

why Take your child to hospital with a cough?  Unless there is an underlying condition that you do not want to tell TV about, (fair enough if that is the case) , I don't see the need. Kids get coughs and colds all the time as their immune system develops, with sometimes wild fluctuations in their body temperature.  Go to a pharmacy and talk to the pharmacist. A lot cheaper and probably a lot more effective. 

[scorecard]

1 minute ago, Pilotman said:

why Take your child to hospital with a cough?  Unless there is an underlying condition that you do not want to tell TV about, (fair enough if that is the case) , I don't see the need. Kids get coughs and colds all the time as their immune system develops, with sometimes wild fluctuations in their body temperature.  Go to a pharmacy and talk to the pharmacist. A lot cheaper and probably a lot more effective. 

And if it is clearly a simple cough or runny nose the doctors (private of government hospital) will prescribe the exact same medication everytime.

[sambum]

9 hours ago, ezzra said:

A 10 minute consultation with a GP at Bumrungrad gone from 800 to 1600 baht in two years, i have noticed that the aim of most specialist is to get you to do as many tests as possible, some useless and costly, and when you come to see them on a follow up visit, they send you again to the same tests... this is what happen when the cats are asleep and the rats having a field day...

Bangkok Hospitals chain - total rip off! About 8 years ago a friend of mine was charged 4,000 baht for a doctor to introduce himself before he even made an examination!

[MiNombreEsFicticious]

8 hours ago, MadMuhammad said:

6 days in non-critical care, on an IV with obs done twice a day, 191000thb. Around $1000usd a day. Ouch

 

US$ 1,000 per day? I went to a hospital in Los Angeles 20 years ago on a Sunday, felt like I had tonsillitis, saw the doctor for 90 seconds, got a prescription for Tylenol. I was in and out in 15 minutes. The bill was US$ 1,100... not including the Tylenol. Correction: it was 24 years ago. 

[sambum]

3 hours ago, Captain 776 said:

I got prescription at one of the major private hospitals.........next time I was in Pharma Choice I asked if they had it and how much for 30 pills.

The hospital was 4 times the price of Pharma Choice

 

The Dermatoligist charges 1150 BHAT for office visit but my excellent Cardiologist only charges me 150 BHAT.

They are all over the board some 600 some 800 and the others as I quoted, but for these O V ....I am not complaining because in USA, it is75-150 or more and the ones that are under 100 USD you can count on one hand.

 

Overall its still better across the board.

 

Medical system is totally __________ in America.

 

If I need a Ventolin 8nhaler in Thailand, its around 250 bhat over the counter, in USA, 100-150 for the office visit just to get the prescription, then go to pharmacy and pay your 15-35 dollar co-pay depending on your insurance and wait 1-4 hrs for it to be filled or ya just come back later.

 

so compared to here.......I aint complaining

Might be better if you put all your figures in baht OR dollars - I "ain't got no idea" how many baht there are to the dollar!

Edited April 8, 2019 by sambum

[Mason45]

I've been married to a Thai lady for the past 20 years. Just recently I gave my Thai health insurance a big miss. The prices of medications at Thai hospitals is scandalous. Don't blame the doctors, check your bill they get jack shit. It's a big time scam between health insurance providers and the medication suppliers to hospitals, maybe the same mob. Give Fascino pharmacies a try, at least they have realistic prices.

[Pilotman]

1 minute ago, Mason45 said:

I've been married to a Thai lady for the past 20 years. Just recently I gave my Thai health insurance a big miss. The prices of medications at Thai hospitals is scandalous. Don't blame the doctors, check your bill they get jack shit. It's a big time scam between health insurance providers and the medication suppliers to hospitals, maybe the same mob. Give Fascino pharmacies a try, at least they have realistic prices.

Not at all, I do blame the doctors,  they are the ones who are over prescribing, drugs that are not necessary, maybe harmful and could be dangerous. That's against the oath they take to do no harm. Clearly, they don't understand what that actually means. 

[Bigstef]

This is so true i've been in one hospital in Sri racha and for the same medecine i have at the corner pharmacy for 140b i paid 350b 

[Sydebolle]

I - for one - always ask for prescriptions. Reason is, that Bangkok Pattaya hospital, charged me more than THB 12'000 for medicine which cost less than half at Fascino, literally at the entrance into the hospital compound. Reason given to me by the doctor and the medicine distribution manager on duty at that time was, that "we have to stock everything". 

 

Fascino itself is a country-wide operating chain of pharmacies, has absolutely everything in stock as well, is air-conditioned and properly staffed.

 

If I would be operating a hospital with inflated pricing, I would look forward to the fine of THB 5'000 which is ridiculous compared to the hours of work I would have to put in to complete their request. 

This country, including the Ministry of Public Health, is nothing but a big silly joke! 

[rumak]

8 hours ago, toenail said:

-sounds like the private hospitals have been following the USA health care method of “ultimate price gauging”  

should make all the people yelling " why can't they do things like they do it in Arizona" very happy.

[rumak]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

I have one example of doctors working in both;  a 5 star place in CM, specific specialist one short consultation was 3,500Baht (about 4 years back).

 

A few days later my son took me to a very close by good reputation government hospital. Saw the same doctor, same conversation, bill 100Baht.

 

 

shhhhhhhh !    do you really want these people going there and screwing it up for others ?

Edited April 8, 2019 by rumak

[fisherd3]

Bangkok Hospital Rayong charged 34,000 thb for the first shot in a Rabies course.

Forget Insurance anyone can afford x????

Edited April 8, 2019 by fisherd3
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[fisherd3]

And the reason the Private specialist doctor or dentist is always late is because the cheapo public hospital comes first.

Edited April 8, 2019 by fisherd3
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[roquefort]

9 hours ago, Oxx said:

 

 

Private hospitals are, over all, not overcharging.  If one looks at Bumrungrad shares, their dividend yield is 1.63% - about the same as cash.  They're barely making a profit.

 

Bangkok Dusit Medical Services, yields 1.28%.  Samitivej, 3.35%.  Rajthani, 3.14%.  Ramkhamhaeng, 2.04%.  BCH, 1.34%.  

 

In other words, people are getting what they're paying for.  If prices of, say, drugs were lower, then charges for something else would have to be higher to cover costs.

Dividend yield does not equate to profitability. Companies can reinvest profits in the business or choose to accumulate reserves without distributing profits as dividends. The hospitals you quote could be highly profitable, it really has nothing to do with the dividend yield.

[Destiny1990]

How about dual pricing is that his concern too?

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, ThaiBunny said:

I'm aware of one private hospital where they perform an MRI for almost every admission except in-grown toenail - a great money-spinner for the hospital

 Another one, In many hospitals in CM now seems to almost the first words out of the doctors mouth 'we'll have to admit you'.

 

On one occasion my Thai son had taken his 3 yo daughter to the hospital for a quite heavy cold. Within maybe 10 seconds of sitting down 'We'll have to admit her'.

 

My son is a senior person at a university, normally he's very polite. On this occasion (second time within about 10 days, first time his older daughter, same problem as younger one) and son lost his cool quick smart, and said strongly but politely 'who haven't looked at my daughter or asked any questions yet, so how do you know she must be admitted'. 

 

The nurse asked my son to be quiet and be polite, she got a mouthful too. They walked out but asked for the bill, 800Baht, mostly for extra consultation time.

 

Son now takes his kids to a private practice which was highly recommended. 

 

But that's since stopped, the Thai doctor retired to Japan to live.

 

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, Pilotman said:

Not at all, I do blame the doctors,  they are the ones who are over prescribing, drugs that are not necessary, maybe harmful and could be dangerous. That's against the oath they take to do no harm. Clearly, they don't understand what that actually means. 

 Overprescribing yes, but could be at the instruction of the hospital owner.

 

I cut my leg, about cm long not deep, not serious, but within 48 hours quite some inflamation around the cut, I went to the hospital, 5 minute visit, dr. instructed to wash the cut 3 times per day with the disinefctant in the little yellow bottle, can't think of the name.

 

And he asked me if I had any pain. I said none.

At the cashier I discover:

 

- 600Baht for the 5 minute visit

- 2 bottles of the disinfectant (which I already indicated we have at home).

- 24 tabs each of 2 different antibiotics

- 14 tabs each of 2 different serious pain killers (1 tab each per day of the 2 painkillers - 'you'll need to take the 2 pain killers for 14 days' - I had already said I had no pain whatever)

- 1 box of Tylenol tabs just in case needed on top of the 2 serious pain killers above.

 

Total bill 2,800Baht. 

 

 

 

 

[Pilotman]

3 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 Overprescribing yes, but could be at the instruction of the hospital owner.

 

I cut my leg, about cm long not deep, not serious, but within 48 hours quite some inflamation around the cut, I went to the hospital, 5 minute visit, dr. instructed to wash the cut 3 times per day with the disinefctant in the little yellow bottle, can't think of the name.

 

And he asked me if I had any pain. I said none.

At the cashier I discover:

 

- 600Baht for the 5 minute visit

- 2 bottles of the disinfectant (which I already indicated we have at home).

- 24 tabs each of 2 different antibiotics

- 14 tabs each of 2 different serious pain killers (1 tab each per day of the 2 painkillers - 'you'll need to take the 2 pain killers for 14 days' - I had already said I had no pain whatever)

- 1 box of Tylenol tabs just in case needed on top of the 2 serious pain killers above.

 

Total bill 2,800Baht. 

 

 

 

 

The doctor takes the oath, not the hospital administrator.

 

Why did you take and pay for medication you didn't need? They tried that on me a few years ago, I told them to keep it. 

[scorecard]

1 minute ago, Pilotman said:

The doctor takes the oath, not the hospital administrator.

 

Why did you take and pay for medication you didn't need? They tried that on me a few years ago, I told them to keep it. 

I didn't, I refused to buy the medicine at the hospital, several senior hospital staff tried hard to insist that patients cannot buy medicines outside, eventually I put 1155 (tourist police) on my smartphone screen and showed them and said 'If you insist I have to buy the medicines here I will call the police and then immediately call Thai Rath newspaper.'

 

They backed away quickly with one of the senior staff saying 'farng ruu mark' (farang know too much).

 

I then attacked about the doctors fee, and quickly got again to 'I'll call the police and Thai Rath. The bill was cancelled. As I was walking away about 6 or 7 people were waiting to pay their bill, they all clapped (they understood, most of this was in Thai language), and very quickly most of them had fronted the cashier's window saying "I will buy the yaa outside."

 

[DaRoadrunner]

Thanks to the OP for posting. This subject really got me fired up.

 

Good, about time something was done. Money and medicine are a bad mix. Many private hospitals are registered on the stock market, they are a business first and a hospital last. The only part of  a Thai hospital you can guarantee to be efficient is the cashier. Open wallet surgery. It wouldn’t be so bad but some of the Thai doctors don’t know what they’re doing, malpractice is common. No wonder it's a restricted occupation for Thais only, they could not compete with a foreign doctor.

 

As an example of prices, they charge 1500 B for a liter of saline drip that comes out of a factory for 100 B. It’s just salt water!

 

There is also two tier pricing, with Farang paying up to double what the Thais pay.

All this just drives up the insurance premiums too.

 

Lets name and shame here….. Overcharging and malpractice has been experienced by me at Bumrungrad and Bangkok Pattaya and Vibhavadi General.

 

As for Khun Wichai Pochanakit of the Commerce Ministry’s Internal Trade Department….. Thanks brother but be careful someone influential does not get you transferred to an inactive post!

For anyone wishing to complain about hospital pricing, here is the link to the Dept of Internal Trade

https://www.dit.go.th/en/

 

And why is hospital food lousy? My thanks to Pizza Hut who saved Da Roadrunner from starvation and delivered to my room! If only the hospital was half as efficient as Pizza Hut.

 

Edited April 8, 2019 by DaRoadrunner

[scorecard]

11 hours ago, Oxx said:

 

 

Private hospitals are, over all, not overcharging.  If one looks at Bumrungrad shares, their dividend yield is 1.63% - about the same as cash.  They're barely making a profit.

 

Bangkok Dusit Medical Services, yields 1.28%.  Samitivej, 3.35%.  Rajthani, 3.14%.  Ramkhamhaeng, 2.04%.  BCH, 1.34%.  

 

In other words, people are getting what they're paying for.  If prices of, say, drugs were lower, then charges for something else would have to be higher to cover costs.

 

Not as simple as that.

 

- Do you have any data on their operating efficiency?

- Do you have any data on whether they borrowed funds to establish the hospital etc., and the interest is too high or they simply borrowed too much, beyond any sensible balance?

- Do you know whether luxury cars for hospital managers were bought with company money and drivers are paid on the hospital payroll, or similar?

- Do you know what other business ventures are under the same ownership and  not performing and/or the operating costs of the other ventures is hidden in hospital operating costs?

- Do you know ...

Edited April 8, 2019 by scorecard

[Oxx]

5 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

Not as simple as that.

 

- Do you have any data on their operating efficiency?

- Do you have any data on whether they borrowed funds to establish the hospital etc., and the interest is too high or they simply borrowed too much, beyond any sensible balance?

- Do you know whether luxury cars for hospital managers were bought with company money and drivers are paid on the hospital payroll, or similar?

- Do you know what other business ventures are under the same ownership and  not performing and/or the operating costs of the other ventures is hidden in hospital operating costs?

- Do you know ...

 

Do you? I've actually looked at the financial reports of some of these hospitals.  I'm guessing you haven't.

[Brigand]

Bangkok Hospital has been conspicuous by their absence from being mentioned in this thread and I bet they are one of the worst offenders.

Edited April 8, 2019 by Brigand

[scorecard]

10 minutes ago, Oxx said:

 

Do you? I've actually looked at the financial reports of some of these hospitals.  I'm guessing you haven't.

So you believe that financial reports (which could mean many things) provide specific answers about operational efficiencies especially in terms of aligned costs? I doubt that?

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Oxx said:

 

Do you? I've actually looked at the financial reports of some of these hospitals.  I'm guessing you haven't.

Why would you guess I haven't?

 

I have plenty of business and management consulting and personal business experience to make the points I raised.

 

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Brigand said:

Bangkok Hospital has been conspicuous by their absence from being mentioned in this thread and I bet they are one of the worst offenders.

 Never been there and never will. Just 3 months back an old buddy of mine went there feeling unwell, a nurse went right ahead and installed him into the ICU and hooked him up to lots of machines. He had called friends who came uickly, thay aaksed the nurse what's wrong? Her reply 'heart attack'. In the next 24 hours it was revealed a doctor didn't see this guy until the next day, and the doctor's diagnosis was not heart attack but vague about what might be wrong. in fact the next day he felt 100% fine and wanted to go home, took another 5 days to get him out of ICU and discharged.  Cost an arm and a leg.

[wreckingcountry]

Same for generic flu tabs! RIP off at big private hospitals


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