Do you believe in God and why

[mauGR1]

24 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

C'mon now! Isn't it obvious that everyone without exception is 'metaphorically' standing on the shoulders of someone from a previous generation, whether giant or dwarf.

 

Glad to hear that is obvious for you now.

 

26 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

The lack of a written script in ancient civilizations, and/or the inability of modern scholars to decipher a script that might appear to be one, reduces the amount and the certainty of the historical knowledge we have of that civilization.

 

Thanks for stating the obvious, i would add that the lack of a script doesn't imply a lack of culture, knowledge and intelligence. The Aztecs knew the wheel, and used the wheel to make toys, but they never thought to use it for trade and war, they were ok without that.

 

27 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

The Indus Valley Civilization, which predates the Greek civilization, is a classic example. We haven't yet deciphered the script, so there's a lot about the lifestyle, religion and administrative processes that are uncertain.

If you have some spare time one day, i suggest you to read something which is not part of the mainstream narrative about ancient people, but it makes a lot of sense if you look at the bigger picture.

That's the history of the races and the lost continents, also R.Steiner has a word of 2 to say about that.

We have that wrong idea of the Neanderthals being ignorant brutes, but, despite having a daily fight for survival, those people were carrying all the good and bad qualities of the modern human.

 

[VincentRJ]

3 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Thanks for stating the obvious, i would add that the lack of a script doesn't imply a lack of culture, knowledge and intelligence. The Aztecs knew the wheel, and used the wheel to make toys, but they never thought to use it for trade and war, they were ok without that.

You seem to be contradicting yourself. You praise the Greeks for developing a script which helps to spread knowledge to unprecedented levels, then state that the lack of a script doesn't imply a lack of culture.

 

And why mention the Aztecs? These tribal people adopted the language and script of the Nahua people in central Mexico, after they had migrated from the northern part of Mexico. They engaged in a lot of warfare, and if they didn't use the wheel for either trade or war, it was probably because they lived in a very hilly environment without roads, so it wasn't practical.

 

I don't find the Aztec culture at all inspiring. http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/aztecs.htm

 

"Aztec society suffered under a tremendous burden of a religion which held that the god of the Sun needed to be fed human hearts in order to make the daily journey from east to west. This meant that the Aztecs needed to wage nearly constant war to capture sacrificial victims. Thus in their warfare the Aztecs tried not to kill their enemies in battle but to take them alive. This religious burden drained labor away from productive enterprises and required substantial effort and resources be devoted to supplying the army with weapons and sustenance."

 

We have that wrong idea of the Neanderthals being ignorant brutes, but, despite having a daily fight for survival, those people were carrying all the good and bad qualities of the modern human.

 

I don't have that wrong idea. They are sometime described as Homo Sapiens Neanderthalensis, as opposed to Homo Sapiens Sapiens, which is us. However, it's not true to claim they carry all of the good and bad qualities of modern humans. There's a slight genetic difference, but not as great as the difference between modern humans and Chimpanzees or Gorillas. You could describe Neanderthals as one of the 'missing links', or a sub-species of Homo Sapiens Sapiens.
 

[mauGR1]

25 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

You seem to be contradicting yourself. You praise the Greeks for developing a script which helps to spread knowledge to unprecedented levels, then state that the lack of a script doesn't imply a lack of culture.

No, i'm not contradicting myself. Culture can exist without any script. Before the script, erudites used to have amazing memory btw.

Did it look like i was praising the Greeks ? Not more than the Assyrian-Babylonians or the Egyptians.. Or the Romans. just about different stages of the evolution of the script. Of course i have a great admiration for all these cultures and many others !

31 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

And why mention the Aztecs?

I could have mentioned the Chinese, who invented gunpowder, but never thought of using it for killing enemies... My point was that creativity is not always put in practical use.

 

37 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

I don't have that wrong idea. They are sometime described as Homo Sapiens Neanderthalensis, as opposed to Homo Sapiens Sapiens, which is us.

Yes, but as you know very well, in common speech, at least in my country and i guess a few others, calling someone "neanderthal" is not exactly a compliment.

[VincentRJ]

11 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

No, i'm not contradicting myself. Culture can exist without any script. Before the script, erudites used to have amazing memory btw.

Of course culture can exist without any script. There seems to be some confusion about the definition of 'culture'. You seem to be using the term in an 'either/or' context. That is, a society either has a culture or it doesn't, and that the lack of a written script does not mean that the society has no culture. I would agree with the latter part, that lack of a script does not mean 'no culture'.

 

I've assumed that we both understand that all societies or tribes have some sort of 'culture', even the Neanderthals. My point was that a society that has developed a written script has increased the sophistication and strength of its culture, and that a society that hasn't developed a written script is lacking in that degree of cultural sophistication that a written script bestows, not that it is completely lacking a culture.

[luckyluke]

19 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

... read the Bible and research what it says.  

 

The good news is, you have until you take your last breath to figure this out.  The bad news is, after you take your last breath it is a done deal.  Choose wisely.  

 

Maybe you are right,

I am convinced you think you are. 

 

So far I am only convinced of :

"after you take your last breath,

it is done". 

 

But maybe I am wrong, at 71, I will soon (or later) find out, 

and will know about your god, or another "something", 

 

or than maybe not. 

 

Anyway, I will not change anything in my life in whatever perspective. 

 

I am not afraid of death,

I had/have basically a good life, I tried/try to do good and not intentionally bad,

but primordially respect every opinion. 

 

I hope for you, you feel and do the same;

However I doubt you respect another opinion than yours. 

 

We are all different. 

 

 

 

 

 

[mauGR1]

56 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

That is, a society either has a culture or it doesn't, and that the lack of a written script does not mean that the society has no culture. I would agree with the latter part, that lack of a script does not mean 'no culture'.

Of course we agree on that, i gave a quick look at my previous posts, and i didn't see anything wrong.

Well, no big deal, English is not my first language, and some lack of accuracy is quite likely on my part.

1 hour ago, VincentRJ said:

My point was that a society that has developed a written script has increased the sophistication and strength of its culture, and that a society that hasn't developed a written script is lacking in that degree of cultural sophistication that a written script bestows, not that it is completely lacking a culture.

Well, perhaps we could 'split hairs' and discuss the meaning of 'cultural sophistication' but i agree in general with what you say.

My point was that every culture owes a great deal to previous cultures, and , in modern times as in ancient times, we have to separate the useless from the useful, leave the useless behind and possibly develop the useful part.

Now, given that happiness and peace of mind are easily the goals of every rational sentient being, i have the impression that a lot of people seem to be not very rational.

[CMNightRider]

3 hours ago, luckyluke said:

 

Maybe you are right,

I am convinced you think you are. 

 

So far I am only convinced of :

"after you take your last breath,

it is done". 

 

But maybe I am wrong, at 71, I will soon (or later) find out, 

and will know about your god, or another "something", 

 

or than maybe not. 

 

Anyway, I will not change anything in my life in whatever perspective. 

 

I am not afraid of death,

I had/have basically a good life, I tried/try to do good and not intentionally bad,

but primordially respect every opinion. 

 

I hope for you, you feel and do the same;

However I doubt you respect another opinion than yours. 

 

We are all different. 

 

 

 

 

 

It may be a better idea to read the Bible and educate yourself, instead of being concerned with what I say or think.  This topic is far too serious than many of these posters seem to think.  Anyway, good luck to you, and I truly hope you make the right decision before you take your last breath.

[luckyluke]

1 hour ago, CMNightRider said:

It may be a better idea to read the Bible

When I was very young I read the classic fairy tales, I remember I was impressed by many of them, even now remember most of them.

 

Much later I started to read the Bible and the Koran, but

was not captivated, had an insipid feeling.

So I gave up. 

 

1 hour ago, CMNightRider said:

I truly hope you make the right decision before you take your last breath.

 

Nobody knows what the real right decision is, we all act differently, but all hope it is the correct way we handle.

 

Of course there are some who believe that their way is the only true/right one.

 

Well at least I tried to read the Bible and the Koran.

 

Now I am reading, sporadically,  Buddha and the Dalai Lama quotes, 

interesting and enjoyable,

in my opinion.

 

Just thinking at my quote :

 

Of course there are some who believe that their way is the only true/right one.

 

Who knows those will maybe eternally punished, after death, by a  " something " for being so bigot/zealot.

 

[CMNightRider]

Bible prophecy

 

Fulfilled prophecy shows that there is a God and He is the author of the Bible. There were so many prophecies of Jesus that were written hundreds of years before His time like Psalm 22; Isaiah 53:10; Isaiah 7:14; Zechariah 12:10; and more. There is no way that anyone can deny these passages that were written way before Jesus’ time. Also, there are prophecies that are being fulfilled before our eyes.

 

Micah 5:2 “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.”

 

Isaiah 7:14 “Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.”

 

Psalm 22:16-18 “Dogs surround me, a pack of villains encircles me; they pierce my hands and my feet. All my bones are on display; people stare and gloat over me. They divide my clothes among them and cast lots for my garment.”

 

2 Peter 3:3-4 “Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 10/16/2019 at 5:07 PM, VincentRJ said:

I have no objection to the idea or concept that there is some all-powerful being or entity that created the world and all its forms of life. What I object to is the expression of certainty that such an entity exists, and the completely unscientific, inhumane and unsympathetic manner of maintaining such certainty by torturing and killing those who disagree.
 

Those people are not actually religious. They are just monsters that want to control others and get wealthy by exploiting the religious.

No real Christian would kill anyone else, except in war or self defence, and certainly not indulge in cruelty.

The Christ said that the poor are always with us, but I wonder if he mentioned the monsters in human form and it got edited out from the Bible by the monsters.

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

Bible prophecy

 

Fulfilled prophecy shows that there is a God and He is the author of the Bible. There were so many prophecies of Jesus that were written hundreds of years before His time like Psalm 22; Isaiah 53:10; Isaiah 7:14; Zechariah 12:10; and more. There is no way that anyone can deny these passages that were written way before Jesus’ time. Also, there are prophecies that are being fulfilled before our eyes.

 

Micah 5:2 “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.”

 

Isaiah 7:14 “Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.”

 

Psalm 22:16-18 “Dogs surround me, a pack of villains encircles me; they pierce my hands and my feet. All my bones are on display; people stare and gloat over me. They divide my clothes among them and cast lots for my garment.”

 

2 Peter 3:3-4 “Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”

 

Although i am quite skeptical of the Bible being a reliable source of knowledge, i am sure that there is a lot of truth there, mixed with a few inaccuracies.

When i was a teen, having lost any faith and belief in the Catholic church, i went to India.

Talking with an Indian holy man, i discovered that Jesus is not only well known and respected there, but he's regarded as an "avatar" (manifestation) of Vishnu, which is part of the Hindu trinity.

So, sorry not to be a real Christian, nonetheless i have respect for your faith, and for your knowledge of the Bible.

[giddyup]

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Those people are not actually religious. They are just monsters that want to control others and get wealthy by exploiting the religious.

No real Christian would kill anyone else, except in war or self defence, and certainly not indulge in cruelty.

The Christ said that the poor are always with us, but I wonder if he mentioned the monsters in human form and it got edited out from the Bible by the monsters.

What about an unjustified war as started by GW Bush,is it OK to kill people then? BTW, the ten commandments say "Thou shall not kill" it doesn't mention any exceptions.

Edited October 18, 2019 by giddyup

[luckyluke]

4 minutes ago, giddyup said:

What about an unjustified war

What about, if God is supporting the invaders, as claimed by the Germans in World War II ?

 

[giddyup]

3 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

What about, if God is supporting the invaders, as claimed by the Germans in World War II ?

 

I would suggest every army since time began believed it had one god or another on it's side.

[luckyluke]

10 minutes ago, giddyup said:

I would suggest every army since time began believed it had one god or another on it's side.

Maybe they had,

the god of the winners being more powerful than the god of the defeated. 

[mauGR1]

13 minutes ago, giddyup said:

I would suggest every army since time began believed it had one god or another on it's side.

Exactly.

One could go on a killing rampage, and claim to have acted in the name of the spaghetti monster.

Would you believe him ?

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, luckyluke said:

Maybe they had,

the god of the winners being more powerful than the god of the defeated. 

What if it's the same god? The Germans and the British both worshipped a Christian god, WW1 and 2.

[canuckamuck]

The point is that Christians, following the Bible, should not be inclined to kill. However there are exceptions when killing might seem dutiful. Everyone has choices to make from the evidence available.

Edited October 18, 2019 by canuckamuck

[giddyup]

Just now, canuckamuck said:

The point is that Christians, following the Bible, should not be inclined to kill. However there are exceptions when killing might seem dutiful. Everyone has choices to make from the evidence available.

Problem is, people get brainwashed with nationalism, and conscientious objectors often get a rough deal, like the Vietnam war, but then those that served got a rough deal when they returned. Go figure.

[sirineou]

19 minutes ago, giddyup said:

What if it's the same god? The Germans and the British both worshipped a Christian god, WW1 and 2.

 Yes but because the other side was wrong,god was on the side of the one who thought that was right.

Unfortunately they were both wrong and god was and is on the side of the Americans. LOL

Edited October 18, 2019 by sirineou
typo

[luckyluke]

19 minutes ago, giddyup said:

What if it's the same god? The Germans and the British both worshipped a Christian god, WW1 and 2.

God moves in mysterious ways.

[ThaiBunny]

3 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

God moves in mysterious ways.

So do my bowels

[Tagged]

13 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

The point is that Christians, following the Bible, should not be inclined to kill. However there are exceptions when killing might seem dutiful. Everyone has choices to make from the evidence available.

So why do we still have the old bible? God is all in for a good genocide! No reason to hold back and wipe out your enemy if they ar not of the clean people? 
 

How do you think the Jews can comtinue steal land and kill people in their fully right and acceptance of their own and god maighty Usa?

 

go figure

[canuckamuck]

48 minutes ago, Tagged said:

So why do we still have the old bible? God is all in for a good genocide! No reason to hold back and wipe out your enemy if they ar not of the clean people? 
 

How do you think the Jews can comtinue steal land and kill people in their fully right and acceptance of their own and god maighty Usa?

 

go figure

That is a lot of territory to discuss. God did remove people from their land in various nasty ways. Fire from the sky, flood, Invading armies. He did always give some fair warming in advance though.

 

Currently the Jews are quite divided about what they should be doing. Perhaps if they remembered their roots they would find some better leaders.

[Skeptic7]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Those people are not actually religious. They are just monsters that want to control others and get wealthy by exploiting the religious.

No real Christian would kill anyone else, except in war or self defence, and certainly not indulge in cruelty.

The Christ said that the poor are always with us, but I wonder if he mentioned the monsters in human form and it got edited out from the Bible by the monsters.

555 Christians murder, rape and pillage every single day...no different than any other superstitious group. Christianity has a history of violence and murdering those whom disagree. 

 

"The most famous estimate is 56 million deaths, but a more critical examination would put Christianity's death toll at 9.064 to 28.734 million." 

 

Hardly none, but of course your argument will be The No True Scotsman Fallacy. ????

[Tagged]

3 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

555 Christians murder, rape and pillage every single day...no different than any other superstitious group. Christianity has a history of violence and murdering those whom disagree. 

 

"The most famous estimate is 56 million deaths, but a more critical examination would put Christianity's death toll at 9.064 to 28.734 million." 

 

Hardly none, but of course your argument will be The No True Scotsman Fallacy. ????

But they where not truly christians, even the popes who killed witches. Killing in Name of god, jesus or maria, doesnt ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

never mind, the true colours of people will always shine trough, no matter what they hiding behind. 
 

The worst people is, «The bible say ,,,,,,,» as a proof of the rightness in a discussion. No thinking or eleborating their arguments, just refer to the scripts on auto reply! 

[VincentRJ]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

No real Christian would kill anyone else, except in war or self defence, and certainly not indulge in cruelty.

This is a fundamental point about Christianity that needs clarifying. It's a normal human, or animal, reaction to defend oneself when attacked, but is it a true Christian reaction?

 

The 6th (or sometimes the 5th) of the Ten Commandments states, 'You shall not murder'.
Murder is a premeditated action to kill, for whatever reason. If the 5th or 6th Commandment stated, 'You shall not kill', then all Christians would have to be like Mahatma Gandhi or Buddha.

 

War maneuvers and procedures are usually premeditated, with the intention of killing one's enemy. Is this effectively 'murder'?

 

I'm not an expert on the Biblical texts. Is there any passage in the New Testament which clarifies this issue, and perhaps states in some way that it is okay to kill one's enemies to protect one's own life?

[mauGR1]

40 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

'I'm not an expert on the Biblical texts. Is there any passage in the New Testament which clarifies this issue, and perhaps states in some way that it is okay to kill one's enemies to protect one's own life?

I'm afraid it's a grey area.

I read a story about a Buddha's previous life, where he killed the captain of a boat after discovering that he (the captain) intended to kill all the passengers.

It's about choosing the lesser evil, imho.

[ben2talk]

One of the biggest issues with American politics right now is the Christian culture that pervades. It's made patently obvious by the vaping news of late... with edited/fake news and misinformation leading the charge.

Sounds like a Christian Army going to war... forget the facts, and I got a personal attack after answering one question on Quora. Turns out the writer is a Christian who belives that anything bad for your body is evil and to be avoided.

His point being that giving up smoking and taking up vaping is simply replacing evil with evil (albeit at least 95% less evil - or maybe you could say it's less evil enough that you could actually use it as a better replacement... after all, Christians DO drive cars and they are certainly not GOOD for the environment or health...).

 

I just hate Christians - and had enough experience to be fully bigoted without any worries about upsetting anyone subscribing to the religion. Any Christian who is fed to the lions goes straight to heaven, right? So let's do them all a favour.

Edited October 18, 2019 by ben2talk

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, VincentRJ said:

The 6th (or sometimes the 5th) of the Ten Commandments states, 'You shall not murder'.

 As far as I know you guys are not Biblians you are Christians , So never mind what the bible said, What did  Christ say?

Edited October 18, 2019 by sirineou
typo