Do you believe in God and why

[thaibeachlovers]

On 10/30/2019 at 12:34 PM, canuckamuck said:

You say repentance is more important than belief, the Bible would suggest that repentance and belief are intrinsically connected.

Belief without repentance is not belief at all. 

But I do agree that repentance without belief is possible. And, that it is better than belief without repentance because the repentance is a recognition of a moral absolute. 

Repentance alone does not save one. Only by repenting and changing one's life can one achieve salvation.

The Christ said that the sinner was forgiven but to sin no more.

Repentance is a one time offer.

[canuckamuck]

17 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Repentance alone does not save one. Only by repenting and changing one's life can one achieve salvation.

The Christ said that the sinner was forgiven but to sin no more.

Repentance is a one time offer.

 Personally I believe repentance is a long and perhaps, perpetual process.

Edited October 31, 2019 by canuckamuck

[UncleMhee]

16 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Repentance is a one time offer.

Repentance is an infinity offer until dead. 

[thaibeachlovers]

8 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

 Personally I believe repentance is a long and perhaps, perpetual process.

Disagree. One repents, and changes one's ways. I don't see how it can be drawn out.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 minutes ago, UncleMhee said:

Repentance is an infinity offer until dead. 

Only if no sin after repentance.

[canuckamuck]

55 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Disagree. One repents, and changes one's ways. I don't see how it can be drawn out.

Lots of thing to realize about yourself in the course of your life. You can't fix what you can't see.

[giddyup]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You read, but did not understand. The book only recorded what Jesus said. The answer is not in a book, it is in yourself.

The book was written over hundreds of years by many different people, they only wrote down what was passed down through the ages, which left a lot of room for embellishment and interpretation.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

Lots of thing to realize about yourself in the course of your life. You can't fix what you can't see.

That's not it. One repents of the sins that one has done, even if one does not know all of them, and does not sin again.

They thing that counts is not sinning again, regardless of what went before.

It's just like a druggie going cold turkey and never taking drugs again, or an alcoholic never drinking again.

Jesus said the sinner was forgiven of his sins UP TO THAT POINT, but not to sin again. If the sinner sinned again, the repentance was null and void.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, giddyup said:

The book was written over hundreds of years by many different people, they only wrote down what was passed down through the ages, which left a lot of room for embellishment and interpretation.

What's not to understand by "the answer is not in a book, it is in yourself"?

Salvation is not won in a book, it is won by walking on the right path. No sinner that has not repented shall gain salvation.

Seems simple enough to me.

Only psychopaths don't know the difference between right and wrong; we all have a conscience. Conscience doesn't come in a book.

Edited October 31, 2019 by thaibeachlovers

[canuckamuck]

20 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That's not it. One repents of the sins that one has done, even if one does not know all of them, and does not sin again.

They thing that counts is not sinning again, regardless of what went before.

It's just like a druggie going cold turkey and never taking drugs again, or an alcoholic never drinking again.

Jesus said the sinner was forgiven of his sins UP TO THAT POINT, but not to sin again. If the sinner sinned again, the repentance was null and void.

I have never met someone who did not stumble in some after repentance. If you disallow that repentance is a process, than perhaps you see it as something that needs repetition. I can see it both ways.

But it is very unlikely to see perfection in a human.

[giddyup]

19 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

What's not to understand by "the answer is not in a book, it is in yourself"?

Salvation is not won in a book, it is won by walking on the right path. No sinner that has not repented shall gain salvation.

Seems simple enough to me.

Only psychopaths don't know the difference between right and wrong; we all have a conscience. Conscience doesn't come in a book.

 In that case I don't see the relevance in either reading the bible or being a christian. You can "walk the right path" without doing either.

[thaibeachlovers]

27 minutes ago, giddyup said:

 In that case I don't see the relevance in either reading the bible or being a christian. You can "walk the right path" without doing either.

Have I not being saying exactly that for the past 213 pages?

Christianity is a religion. Religion is of man, not God.

God is what we find within ourselves.

The Bible does provide some history and some instructions for those that need them, but it isn't the answer in itself. For the answer, we have to look within ourselves.

[thaibeachlovers]

33 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

I have never met someone who did not stumble in some after repentance. If you disallow that repentance is a process, than perhaps you see it as something that needs repetition. I can see it both ways.

But it is very unlikely to see perfection in a human.

An alcoholic that stopped drinking, and then started again is still an alcoholic. A sinner that repents and continues sinning is still a sinner. No one said walking the path of righteousness was going to be easy. If it was easy it would have no significance.

Being a good person is hard. It's probably the hardest thing any person can do. I'm certainly not going to claim to be without sin. Bit difficult when Jesus said it is not what a man does that saves him, but what he is. Even bad thoughts are sin.

I guess that's why the Buddha said we have to return many times till we can achieve Nirvana.

I'm also not claiming to know what happens if we don't repent, and do still carry on sinning. I think the Catholics regard Purgatory as the place that sinners go before they move on, but obviously no one actually knows. Perhaps the atheists are right and there is nothing after death.

[Elad]

17 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Perhaps the atheists are right and there is nothing after death.

And that would imply a universe from nothing, which seems reasonable to me but I'm not sure you're happy with something from nothing. 

 

 

 

 

[soalbundy]

From 'The open secret by Tony Parsons ;-

 

There is no me or you, no seeker, no enlightenment, no disciple and no guru. There is no better or worse, no path, and nothing that has to be achieved. All appearance is source. All that apparently manifests—the world, the life story, the hypnotic dream of separation, the search for home, is the one appearing as two, the nothing appearing as everything, the absolute appearing as the particular.

 

There is no separate intelligence weaving a destiny, and no choice functioning at any level. Nothing is happening, but this, as it is, invites the apparent seeker to rediscover that which already is . . the abiding uncaused, unchanging, impersonal silence from which unconditional love overflows and celebrates. It is the wonderful mystery.. .                                                                                           Tony Parsons

[VincentRJ]

19 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Perhaps the atheists are right and there is nothing after death.

There is always something after death. Isn't that obvious? You've heard of the Law of Conservation of Energy, haven't you?

 

"In physics and chemistry, the Law of Conservation of Energy states that the total energy of an isolated system remains constant; it is said to be conserved over time. This law means that energy can neither be created nor destroyed; rather, it can only be transformed or transferred from one form to another."

 

Have you ever noticed the rich soil on a forest floor? The leaves take up CO2, Oxygen and Nitrogen from the atmosphere, and water and nutrients from the soil. After the trees' leaves and branches die, and fall to the ground, they gradually rot and return the nutrients to the soil which feeds the multitude of worms and micro-organisms in the soil, which in turn helps the roots of the trees take up more nutrients and flourish.

 

Likewise, when animals in the forest defecate and urinate, they are returning nutrients to the soil. When the animals die, their dead bodies provide food for other predators, such as hawks, or smaller creatures such as ants and microbes, and their bones return calcium to the soil as they gradually rot away.

 

Of course, Humans have gradually evolved away from this completely natural process, as a result of our capacity to think in the abstract, and our ability to imagine and communicate ideas about things that are not immediately in front of us. Our capacity for symbolic thought allows us to remember the past and visualize the future, and alter our environment in far more significant ways than any other creature does.
We perform ritual burials because we can remember the past and have the capacity for symbolic thought. We no longer return our faeces to the soil because of hygiene concerns, and prefer to use artificial fertilizers.

 

However, what we leave behind after we die is usually far greater than a decaying body which can fertilize the soil. We leave behind writings and/or research which benefits the future generations; and homes, infrastructure and wealth which helps the future generation flourish just as the forest flourishes due to a gradual increase in the richness of the humus soil.

[CMNightRider]

The fact there is a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven" says a lot about the anticipated traffic numbers.  

 

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

 

You have until your last breath to accept Jesus Christ as your savior and repent of your sins.  After that it is a done deal.  Are you saved?  If not, you should be.  Just something for you to think about.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/1/2019 at 1:31 PM, Elad said:

And that would imply a universe from nothing, which seems reasonable to me but I'm not sure you're happy with something from nothing. 

 

 

 

 

Please explain how the uncountable trillions of tonnes of matter that formed the universe could just appear? I don't believe it's possible all that came from zero. Nothing is after all the absence of something.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/1/2019 at 3:12 PM, VincentRJ said:

However, what we leave behind after we die is usually far greater than a decaying body which can fertilize the soil. We leave behind writings and/or research which benefits the future generations; and homes, infrastructure and wealth which helps the future generation flourish just as the forest flourishes due to a gradual increase in the richness of the humus soil.

Only till the sun expands and destroys everything. Everything in the universe is finite. Every single sun will die, and the universe will be a lifeless void full of dead planets. Then it'll all get sucked into a black hole and be reborn in a new "big bang".

I believe that we become energy on "the other side", which keeps coming back as another life form, and not necessarily on planet earth.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/1/2019 at 1:40 PM, soalbundy said:

From 'The open secret by Tony Parsons ;-

 

There is no me or you, no seeker, no enlightenment, no disciple and no guru. There is no better or worse, no path, and nothing that has to be achieved. All appearance is source. All that apparently manifests—the world, the life story, the hypnotic dream of separation, the search for home, is the one appearing as two, the nothing appearing as everything, the absolute appearing as the particular.

 

There is no separate intelligence weaving a destiny, and no choice functioning at any level. Nothing is happening, but this, as it is, invites the apparent seeker to rediscover that which already is . . the abiding uncaused, unchanging, impersonal silence from which unconditional love overflows and celebrates. It is the wonderful mystery.. .                                                                                           Tony Parsons

the abiding uncaused, unchanging, impersonal silence from which unconditional love overflows and celebrates.

 

I guess Hitler, Mao and Stalin didn't get the memo.

[sirineou]

3 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

The fact there is a "Highway to Hell" and only a "Stairway to Heaven" says a lot about the anticipated traffic numbers.

 Fact?

as discerned from toll revenues? 

[soalbundy]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Please explain how the uncountable trillions of tonnes of matter that formed the universe could just appear? I don't believe it's possible all that came from zero. Nothing is after all the absence of something.

quantum fluctuation. I have read that there is in fact nothing, if all negative energy (gravity) was deducted from positive energy in the universe the sum total would be zero energy.

[sirineou]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Please explain how the uncountable trillions of tonnes of matter that formed the universe could just appear? I don't believe it's possible all that came from zero. Nothing is after all the absence of something.

Same way your god appeared.

[yodsak]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Please explain how the uncountable trillions of tonnes of matter that formed the universe could just appear? I don't believe it's possible all that came from zero. Nothing is after all the absence of something.

 

 Science has the answers. Many books on the subject. S Hawking recommended reading.

  Or maybe a god invented 3000 years ago created it.

[sirineou]

 God is an Idiot !!

God craved companion and a relationship with man so me endeavoured to create one

but instead of using his omnipotent powers to create Earth and man in it 

He just created an explosion of primary particles and set them in motion . randomly bumping into each other , combining and recombining for about 8 billion years 

 because God is not only omnipotent. but he is also very patient. Most of what he created was hostile for his creation , but after a universe of tries, SUCCESS!! 

Finally after 8 billion years, in an unremarkable galaxy, near an unremarkable for his type sun , he created Earth!!     

Though upon closer examination that was also a hostile environment for his beloved man, So back to the drawing board .

Never occurred to him to simply , make earth hospitable  create man and have a party, He engaged in chemistry experiments for about 3 billion years. 

 And finally Life!! but much to his disappointment, It just sat there bubbling, Not singing praise to his glory, commiting  sins to be punished for, or killing his enemies. 

Just sat there bubbling, so sad,????

So God set mutations upon his creation, he probed and picked at it and Finally Success !!

Complex life !!   .It was Beautiful.

 Shiny green scaly skin , sharp teeth, and long tails. Upon approaching it he happened to look at his reflection in a pool of water.  

C R U P !!!  his creation looked  looked nothing like him,  so he send a comet to exterminate the abomination. Boom!!!

   And back to the drawing board, Very exhausting this, creating man business.

 But a God gots to do what a God gots to do. 

Back to work for another 300 million years , mutating and mutating, and mutating, and Finally MAN!!

He looked at him , looked in a pool of water, Looked at him again and checked in a mirror just to be sure.

An rejoice Finally success!!  

 But by now he was exhausted and took a nap for a couple of hundred years.

What a Idiot!! Al he had to do was say 

abra cadabra alakazam. 

what a schmuck.

 

 

 

Edited November 2, 2019 by sirineou

[Elad]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Please explain how the uncountable trillions of tonnes of matter that formed the universe could just appear? I don't believe it's possible all that came from zero. Nothing is after all the absence of something.

Experiments have shown that in a vacuum where the energy density of that vacuum is zero, particles and their antiparticles appear from nothing for a very short period of time, and then annihilate each other. The particle antiparticle pairs borrow energy from the vacuum where the energy density of the vacuum becomes negative, when the particles annihilate, the energy is payed back to the vacuum and thus bringing the energy density back to zero. 

 

One example of this is the 'Casimir Effect', the negative energy in the vacuum gives an attractive force between two plates.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect

 

[VincentRJ]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Only till the sun expands and destroys everything. Everything in the universe is finite. Every single sun will die, and the universe will be a lifeless void full of dead planets. Then it'll all get sucked into a black hole and be reborn in a new "big bang".

 

The time scales involved in this process are so huge it will be irrelevant to the Homo Sapiens species because we will either have become extinct or will have evolved into another species by the time the sun expands into a Red Giant.

 

It's taken a mere 6 million years or so for humans to evolve from an ape-like creature that first began to walk on two legs. Imagine how different we would as be a species if we continued to exist (which means evolve) for another billion years or more.

 

I believe that we become energy on "the other side", which keeps coming back as another life form, and not necessarily on planet earth.

 

Sound like a religion to me. ????
 

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

The time scales involved in this process are so huge it will be irrelevant to the Homo Sapiens species because we will either have become extinct or will have evolved into another species by the time the sun expands into a Red Giant.

 

It's taken a mere 6 million years or so for humans to evolve from an ape-like creature that first began to walk on two legs. Imagine how different we would as be a species if we continued to exist (which means evolve) for another billion years or more.

 

 

 

 

Sound like a religion to me. ????
 

Religion requires men in funny hats to explain it. I came to my conclusions without the benefit of any men in funny hats. Ergo- not religion.

Anyway, no holy book says we become pure energy after death.

 

If mankind doesn't become extinct through our incompetence or a comet striking the planet, IMO we evolve to become pure energy, just in time for the end of the universe.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, Elad said:

Experiments have shown that in a vacuum where the energy density of that vacuum is zero, particles and their antiparticles appear from nothing for a very short period of time, and then annihilate each other. The particle antiparticle pairs borrow energy from the vacuum where the energy density of the vacuum becomes negative, when the particles annihilate, the energy is payed back to the vacuum and thus bringing the energy density back to zero. 

 

One example of this is the 'Casimir Effect', the negative energy in the vacuum gives an attractive force between two plates.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_effect

 

particles and their antiparticles appear from nothing for a very short period of time, and then annihilate each other.

 

The universe is made up of matter. Particles that annihilate themselves are not going to make much of anything.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, yodsak said:

Science has the answers. Many books on the subject. S Hawking recommended reading.

LOL. Science can't even cure cancer, yet you claim that it has the answer on life the universe and everything.

5555555555555555555

We know nothing, Jon Snow.

If Hawking was so clever, why didn't he heal himself? Jesus could have.