Do you believe in God and why

[mauGR1]

30 minutes ago, sirineou said:

 If by creator you mean some creative force, ofcourse , How else?

Is that creative force god, and aware of as? I guess as much as we are gods to a cell in our body  and aware of it.  

So, in the end you are a believer ????

[canuckamuck]

26 minutes ago, sirineou said:

It all depends what you mean by "Creator"

If by creator you mean a biblical creator who created as in his own image , and created the universe for as , it would be staggering to believe that he created something so big , most of it hostile to as and out of reach, for something as small as as.

We Live on a small planet in an insignificant solar system in a small galaxy that contains about 50 billion suns, in a universe that contains  about one hundred billion galaxies. And god made all these for as. 

   If by creator you mean some creative force, ofcourse , How else?

Is that creative force god, and aware of as? I guess as much as we are gods to a cell in our body  and aware of it.  

Creative force is one step below intelligent creative force, but one step above everything came from nothing all by itself. But it is at least a rational observation.

If we are the only inhabited solar system, then ours is not insignificant though. If there are other cultures somewhere else, we still wouldn't know if we were the most significant or not. The next most advanced extraterrestrials might not be more than simple worms. Who's to say?

[sirineou]

Just now, mauGR1 said:

So, in the end you are a believer ????

a believer of what? 

 

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, sirineou said:

a believer of what? 

 

A creative force (your words)

[Skeptic7]

1 minute ago, sirineou said:

a believer of what? 

 

And there's the million dollar question to which the answer is always...nothing, crickets, mumbo jumbo, diversion and misdirection. They claim to believe so strongly in this thing/whatever but offer up zilch as to what it is, how they know it, why it's relevant. Somehow they know all about it, INSIST it's the ALL EVERYTHING...yet can offer up nothing of meaningful substance when queried. ????

[sirineou]

4 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Creative force is one step below intelligent creative force

I know what an intelligent being is but I don't know what an

 

7 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

If we are the only inhabited solar system, then ours is not insignificant though. If there are other cultures somewhere else, we still wouldn't know if we were the most significant or not. 

or least significant . unless we overcome that pesky speed of light thing. 

[sirineou]

5 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

A creative force (your words)

of  course there is a creative force , just not a god.

Look this is getting boring.

Provide what your definition of god is, otherwise we are talking past each other.

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, sirineou said:

of  course there is a creative force , just not a god.

Look this is getting boring.

Provide what your definition of god is, otherwise we are talking past each other.

Well, if it's boring, all i can say is "good bye" ????

[Skeptic7]

9 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Well, if it's boring, all i can say is "good bye" ????

AND there's the nothing burger answer I predicted just a few posts prior! Post #3914.

Maybe I M God! ????

Edited November 28, 2019 by Skeptic7

[Tagged]

All we end up with, will be the number 42 as the answer! 
 

what a movie, 

[Sunmaster]

3 hours ago, Elad said:

No source (science, meditation or whatever you do) will provide any answers as to whether an intelligent design to the universe exists or not. That's because ultimately, religion/faith/spiritual experiences provide zero evidence to support an intelligent design,  and conversely, science provides zero evidence that intelligent design is non-existent.

 

So basically with no evidence either way for the existence or non-existence of intelligent design we can say that the two statements below each have a probability of 0.5 (50%) and one of them must be correct.

 

1.  A universe with intelligent design   
2.  A universe without intelligent design 

Only one of the above can be true, both can't be true and non of them can't be true because we exist and are part of a universe, it either has intelligent design or it doesn't. 

Although I will always back No 2, I also accept that based on the evidence (no evidence) that No 1 is still a possibility.

This is due to the fact that science only tries to describe around 5% of the universe (baryonic matter/energy) and 95% of the universe (dark matter/energy) we know nothing about, and of the 5% we know about, we still don't fully understand it.

 

I would like to question the believers on here such as Sunmaster, mauGR1, TBL, canuckamuck and others;

Since there's no evidence either way, do you accept that there's a 50% probability that No 2 is correct, a universe without a creator? 

No.

I don't endorse the concept of a Creator because I have "faith" or "believe" (aka hope) it to be true. I endorse it because that's the undeniable truth I've been confronted with, and there's no better or greater evidence than that. For me at least. 
When you dream, you are certain that everything is real, the emotions you feel seem real, the thoughts you think (however irrational) seem rational and plausible to you in the dream state. Yet, when you wake up from the dream, you have no doubts as to which reality was the dream state and which one is the wake state. In the same manner, when you "awaken" to a higher consciousness, you have no doubt about which reality is "more real" and no matter what other dreamers try to tell, you will always know.

There's no need for faith, like you don't need faith to know you're not asleep right now.
I don't expect others to believe me, but encourage anyone with an honest thirst for truth to find out by themselves.

"That's because ultimately, religion/faith/spiritual experiences provide zero evidence to support an intelligent design". 

This statement is correct only if you take science to be your framework to provide evidence. As previously discussed, science is but one of the methods to make sense of reality and albeit a good one, it only describes 5% of the universe (I take your word for it). There is however evidence that very well supports the concept of a Creative Source, you just have to widen your perspective.

[CMNightRider]

3 hours ago, Elad said:

No source (science, meditation or whatever you do) will provide any answers as to whether an intelligent design to the universe exists or not. That's because ultimately, religion/faith/spiritual experiences provide zero evidence to support an intelligent design,  and conversely, science provides zero evidence that intelligent design is non-existent.

 

So basically with no evidence either way for the existence or non-existence of intelligent design we can say that the two statements below each have a probability of 0.5 (50%) and one of them must be correct.

 

1.  A universe with intelligent design   
2.  A universe without intelligent design 

Only one of the above can be true, both can't be true and non of them can't be true because we exist and are part of a universe, it either has intelligent design or it doesn't. 

Although I will always back No 2, I also accept that based on the evidence (no evidence) that No 1 is still a possibility.

This is due to the fact that science only tries to describe around 5% of the universe (baryonic matter/energy) and 95% of the universe (dark matter/energy) we know nothing about, and of the 5% we know about, we still don't fully understand it.

 

I would like to question the believers on here such as Sunmaster, mauGR1, TBL, canuckamuck and others;

Since there's no evidence either way, do you accept that there's a 50% probability that No 2 is correct, a universe without a creator? 

One has to just leave their computer, walk outside and observe nature, along with all the animals, sea life, and humans to see evidence of intelligent design (God).  God not only sent Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins but provided an instructional manual (Bible) as well.  I can't believe how so many people can overlook this, and think we evolved from some sort of matter in a mud puddle billions of years ago.

 

You have until your take your last breath on this planet to figure this mystery out.  This is not rocket science people.  It's just common sense.    

[Sunmaster]

1 hour ago, VincentRJ said:

That's a very relevant point. Why does anyone put so much faith in science? I think I can answer this for you.

 

First we should distinguish between the 'Methodology of Science', and the media-reported, so-called, 'consensus of opinion' on any scientific issue.

 

The Methodology of Science requires repeated experimentation under controlled conditions which have consistent results,  before we can understand certain processes, have confidence in the theory, and make accurate predictions.

 

A scientist will tend to have a faith in that 'methodology of science', which should also include attempts to falsify a particular theory. To the extent that scientists are honest and unbiased, they will admit to any uncertainties. Any competent scientist knows that science is full of uncertainties because there are so many situations where the full rigor of the 'Methodology of Science' cannot be applied, for various reasons, such as the time-scales involved being too long, or the complexity of interacting forces being too great, and so on.

 

However, most of the general public do not seem to understand this 'Methodology of Science' and/or appreciate its vital importance in the development of the technological products of science they benefit from, such as motor cars, TV sets, computers, airplanes, disease-curing drugs, and so on, which are often very reliable and successful, eventually, after many mistakes in their development.

 

The most glaring example of a 'faith in science', as opposed to a faith in the Methodology of Science, is the current belief among many, that human emissions of CO2 are the main cause or driver of the current change in climate, and that such changes in climate are bad, or will be bad. This belief is of the nature of a religion.

Interesting point. 

I'm very interested in science and aware that it is a great tool for our development as a species. However, one has to be aware of its limitations also and like you say, be able to discern between faith in science and the methodology of science. 
Unlike you, some loudmouth atheists don't have this ability, though.

[VincentRJ]

50 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

When you dream, you are certain that everything is real, the emotions you feel seem real, the thoughts you think (however irrational) seem rational and plausible to you in the dream state. Yet, when you wake up from the dream, you have no doubts as to which reality was the dream state and which one is the wake state. In the same manner, when you "awaken" to a higher consciousness, you have no doubt about which reality is "more real" and no matter what other dreamers try to tell, you will always know.

Not if you are an ancient Chinese philosopher with the name Zhuangzi.

 

One night, Zhuangzi dreamed of being a butterfly — a happy butterfly, showing off and doing things as he pleased, unaware of being Zhuangzi. Suddenly he awoke, drowsily, as Zhuangzi again, but he was not sure whether he was now Zhuangzi who had recently dreamed he was a butterfly, or whether he was now a butterfly dreaming he was Zhuangzi.  ????

[Sunmaster]

Just now, VincentRJ said:

Not if you are an ancient Chinese philosopher with the name Zhuangzi.

 

One night, Zhuangzi dreamed of being a butterfly — a happy butterfly, showing off and doing things as he pleased, unaware of being Zhuangzi. Suddenly he awoke, drowsily, as Zhuangzi again, but he was not sure whether he was now Zhuangzi who had recently dreamed he was a butterfly, or whether he was now a butterfly dreaming he was Zhuangzi.  ????

Absolutely. We are all butterflies dreaming to be X or Y. It either takes years of practice or a moment of deep clarity to realize that. Once that happens, there is no doubt left as to which one is the dream.

[CMNightRider]

20 hours ago, Tagged said:

I cant believe bible qoutes is legal, so many of them is pure misleading and hate speaches of those who do not belie. Great toolbox by the way to catch people with lack of self estem

According to the Bible, we are living in the end times.  We can see evidence of it daily in the world news.  I think your wish about sharing Bible quotes becoming illegal will probably come true in the not to distant future.  It is just a matter of time before Jesus returns to make things right.  Personally, I think it is much better to believe in Him, than be in the group who don't believe.  

 

Believing in God, Jesus Christ, and the Bible, has nothing to do with a "lack of self esteem."  What comes to mind is common sense.  Unfortunately, as can be seen in many of the comments on this site, not everyone is blessed with common sense.  Hopefully, you and other non-believers will wake up before you take your last breath.  After that it is a done deal.   

[Skeptic7]

1 hour ago, CMNightRider said:

One has to just leave their computer, walk outside and observe nature, along with all the animals, sea life, and humans to see evidence of intelligent design (God).  God not only sent Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins but provided an instructional manual (Bible) as well.  I can't believe how so many people can overlook this, and think we evolved from some sort of matter in a mud puddle billions of years ago.

 

You have until your take your last breath on this planet to figure this mystery out.  This is not rocket science people.  It's just common sense.    

And on which day did your god create childhood leukemia and all the other cancers, polio, HIV, earthquakes, tsunamis, tornadoes, etc. All that is part of the beauty and order of your god's creation too. 

 

I've spent my entire life observing, studying and photographing nature It's my passion, but see only a fascinating and beautiful world of danger, threats and thrilling adventure of nature out to kill us. One wrong step, one false move, one wrong insect, reptile or predator encounter and DEATH or disease is lying in wait. Eat the wrong plant or fungi or animal and DEATH awaits. 

 

It's beautiful and amazing, I agree...but even more so, perilous and unpredictable. 

Edited November 28, 2019 by Skeptic7

[CMNightRider]

1 hour ago, Skeptic7 said:

And on which day did your god create childhood leukemia and all the other cancers, polio, HIV, earthquakes, tsunamis, tornadoes, etc. All that is part of the beauty and order of your god's creation too. 

 

I've spent my entire life observing, studying and photographing nature It's my passion, but see only a fascinating and beautiful world of danger, threats and thrilling adventure of nature out to kill us. One wrong step, one false move, one wrong insect, reptile or predator encounter and DEATH or disease is lying in wait. Eat the wrong plant or fungi or animal and DEATH awaits. 

 

It's beautiful and amazing, I agree...but even more so, perilous and unpredictable. 

"It’s sometimes hard to imagine our loving and merciful God displaying such wrath and anger toward His people. But God’s punishments always have the goal of repentance and restoration.

 

In 2 Chronicles 7:13-14, God said to Solomon: “When I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or command locusts to devour the land or send a plague among my people, if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.”

 

Here we see God using disaster to draw us to Himself, to cause us to repent of sin and come to Him as children to their heavenly Father."
 

[yodsak]

[CMNightRider]

32 minutes ago, yodsak said:

"In the New Testament, Jesus healed “every disease and every sickness,” as well as plagues in the areas He visited (Matthew 9:35; 10:1; Mark 3:10). Just as God chose to use plagues and disease to show His power to the Israelites, Jesus healed as an exhibition of the same power to verify that He was truly the Son of God. He gave the same healing power to the disciples to verify their ministry (Luke 9:1).

 

God still allows sickness for His own purposes, but sometimes disease, even worldwide pandemics, are simply the result of living in a fallen world. There is no way to determine which, although we do know that God has sovereign control over all things (Romans 11:36), and He will work all things together for the good of those who know and love Him (Romans 8:28)."
 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/28/2019 at 1:38 AM, VincentRJ said:

Interesting! I never read the book, and came across a reference to this study on the internet just recently. I've always been fascinated, and puzzled, how people can continue to believe in God in this modern age of scientific inquiry and amazing discoveries.

You seem to think we humans actually know everything, when we know nothing. We just think we know everything because we ain't clever enough to know that we don't know much at all.

How's the cure for cancer coming along?

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/28/2019 at 2:50 PM, sirineou said:

of  course there is a creative force , just not a god.

Look this is getting boring.

Provide what your definition of god is, otherwise we are talking past each other.

I said I wouldn't respond to you, so breaking my promise, but honestly, if you believe in a "creative force" you believe in "God"

God isn't an old man sitting on a throne in the sky, it's the force that made life the universe and everything.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/28/2019 at 1:21 AM, VincentRJ said:

If you also take into consideration that there might be a trillion planets in the universe with similar conditions to planet Earth, then the chances of life forming on at least one of those planets is considerably increased.
This is not a belief, but a rational deduction.

We agree there, but where we differ is where the universe that allows the conditions to create life originated. You apparently believe that it just appeared out of nothing, I though, believe life the universe and everything were created so that the chances of intelligent life occuring is possible.

If you believe that the universe just appeared out of nothing, you must believe in magic, and that is as fanciful to me as "God" is to you.

[Skeptic7]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You seem to think we humans actually know everything, when we know nothing. We just think we know everything because we ain't clever enough to know that we don't know much at all.

How's the cure for cancer coming along?

 

NO scientist (or any sensible person, if ya get my drift 555) thinks they know everything. WE humans...at least some of us anyway...know a lot more than we did 1 year ago...10 years ago...100 years ago...1000 years ago. 

 

What the $&#!! are you constantly on about?!? The cure for cancer is coming along SLOWLY (but there have been advances) as there are so many variables and mutations...many probably new and human caused, such as bad (or worse) diets, chemical additives, hormones, pollution, insecticides/herbicides, etc.

 

How are the cures/vaccinations/treatments coming along for polio, smallpox, malaria, HIV and other STDs, measles, rabies, mumps, tetanus, Hepatitis A-B-C, Diphtheria, Whooping Cough, Chickenpox and dozens of others you've never heard of??? How are they coming along Mr. We-Know-Nothing?

 

Here's another FACT, to which you seem immune...global life expectancy has INCREASED by 5.5 years just since the year 2000. This info from The World Health Organization. The reasons are better health care including vaccinations and treatment, increased sanitation, and EDUCATION. 

 

See...we do know a little something. 

Edited November 29, 2019 by Skeptic7

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I said I wouldn't respond to you, so breaking my promise, but honestly, if you believe in a "creative force" you believe in "God"

God isn't an old man sitting on a throne in the sky, it's the force that made life the universe and everything.

 Ok . so god =ma

[mauGR1]

54 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

We agree there, but where we differ is where the universe that allows the conditions to create life originated. You apparently believe that it just appeared out of nothing, I though, believe life the universe and everything were created so that the chances of intelligent life occuring is possible.

If you believe that the universe just appeared out of nothing, you must believe in magic, and that is as fanciful to me as "God" is to you.

The funny thing about the staunch atheists, they ridicule the believers, yet their explanations for the existence of intelligent life are not less laughable than any prehistoric cult.

When challenged, those atheists will hide behind "facts" which are subjective, or "settled science" which doesn't exist by definition, and end up looking as stubborn and unreasonable like medieval bigots.

[Sunmaster]

And funnily enough, those who bark the loudest are those who have the least to say.

[xylophone]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

God isn't an old man sitting on a throne in the sky, it's the force that made life the universe and everything.

The answer is 42...........so now we know!!

[thaibeachlovers]

30 minutes ago, xylophone said:

The answer is 42...........so now we know!!

Douglas was a great writer. I especially liked his solution to bureaucrats.

[VincentRJ]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You seem to think we humans actually know everything, when we know nothing. We just think we know everything because we ain't clever enough to know that we don't know much at all.

How's the cure for cancer coming along?

 

Not quite. The cleverness is knowing that we don't know. Believing that you know something, and acting on that belief, when in reality you are wrong, is the cause of most of the trouble in the world.

 

Scientific investigation and research is based on an initial acceptance that we don't know. The Methodology of Science is the best method we have for knowing 'provisionally' that something is true, but there is always more to learn. Science is never 'settled'. Also, the more we know, as a result of scientific research, the more aware we become that there is yet more to be understood about ourselves and our surrounding environment.