thaibeachlovers Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 38 minutes ago, luckyluke said: ^ All a bit confusing for me. I maintain that "religion/believe..." is not within reach of everyone. But certainly not essential to be happy or/and in peace with oneself, while being in harmony and enjoying nature. It is not necessary to be religious or to believe in a creator to be a good and happy person, but believing in a creator does not preclude being good and happy. I don't care if someone doesn't believe in a creator, but seems to me that some care if I do. I wonder why................? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyluke Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 42 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: It is not necessary to be religious or to believe in a creator to be a good and happy person, but believing in a creator does not preclude being good and happy. I don't care if someone doesn't believe in a creator, but seems to me that some care if I do. I wonder why................? In my opinion most of "Believers" have the tendency to proclaim they have "something", which make them "special". Which come over as " I am better than you" - "More happy and other things non believers don't have" I try to be a good person and happy, as non-believer I will not proclaim that a believer is less or more than me, as I know how I feel, but don't know how another is feeling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 5 minutes ago, luckyluke said: In my opinion most of "Believers" have the tendency to proclaim they have "something", which make them "special". Only one poster has done that. Nevertheless, I think believing is special, even if it doesn't make "me" special. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyluke Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: I think believing is special You are, of course, entitled to this opinion. The reality being : 10 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: it doesn't make "me" special. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 1 hour ago, luckyluke said: ^ All a bit confusing for me. I maintain that "religion/believe..." is not within reach of everyone. But certainly not essential to be happy or/and in peace with oneself, while being in harmony and enjoying nature. Being happy and in harmony with nature can be enough for a dog, a pig or an elephant, but it will never be enough for you. The fact that you are here on this topic, proves it. You can scream "I am happy" a million times, but deep inside you know you are kidding yourself. The physical body of a human, should tell you that you are different from minerals, vegetables, and here comes the difficult part.. We are different from animals, because we have an individual soul. Make of it what you like, but spirituality will haunt you forever ???? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, mauGR1 said: Being happy and in harmony with nature can be enough for a dog, a pig or an elephant, but it will never be enough for you. The fact that you are here on this topic, proves it. You can scream "I am happy" a million times, but deep inside you know you are kidding yourself. The physical body of a human, should tell you that you are different from minerals, vegetables, and here comes the difficult part.. We are different from animals, because we have an individual soul. Make of it what you like, but spirituality will haunt you forever ???? That small voice in our heads that tells us when we are going to make a mistake is, IMO, from "God". Animals don't have a conscience. Only "God" makes us different from animals. Without "God" we'd still be living in caves and trying to kill things with a stick. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mauGR1 Posted January 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 20, 2020 7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: That small voice in our heads that tells us when we are going to make a mistake is, IMO, from "God". Animals don't have a conscience. Only "God" makes us different from animals. Without "God" we'd still be living in caves and trying to kill things with a stick. Animals have a sort of conscience, a "group conscience" . Humans have an individual conscience. Yet humans can have "group conscience" as animals have, when creating and harmonious family, or when going to war against another country, or tribe, or when belonging to the same political party etc. It's fair to say that humans have countless states of consciousness. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeptic7 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 11 minutes ago, mauGR1 said: Being happy and in harmony with nature can be enough for a dog, a pig or an elephant, but it will never be enough for you. The fact that you are here on this topic, proves it. You can scream "I am happy" a million times, but deep inside you know you are kidding yourself. The physical body of a human, should tell you that you are different from minerals, vegetables, and here comes the difficult part.. We are different from animals, because we have an individual soul. Make of it what you like, but spirituality will haunt you forever ???? Not an iota of evidence for having a "soul", nor afterlife. That's just you (again) proclaiming as fact, things which are not. Stating as certain, things about which even the claimant hasn't the slightest idea and doing so without a shred of proof. Shouting wildly subjective opinions from on high without a bit of substance. Make of it what you will, but reality will haunt you forever...and apparently already has. ???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunmaster Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 Does science have an explanation for the dynamics of flocks of birds as they fly in unison, thousands of birds at a time? They obviously don't give vocal orders (far too slow) and don't perform the same flight plan every time (not learned, not instinct). So, how do they do it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yodsak Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 19 minutes ago, Sunmaster said: Does science have an explanation for the dynamics of flocks of birds as they fly in unison, thousands of birds at a time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunmaster Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 Just now, yodsak said: Does that mean they look at each other, and when one moves they instantly all move at the same time? And who is the leader of that flock? Because with this hypothesis there can only be one leader and all others follow that one. You seriously believe that would work?? Lol....and then they make fun of people who believe in God. ???? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Skeptic7 said: Not an iota of evidence for having a "soul", nor afterlife. Perhaps you expect me to show you a soul, or an afterlife wrapped in silver paper, but it's not going to happen. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyluke Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 4 hours ago, mauGR1 said: Being happy and in harmony with nature can be enough for a dog, a pig or an elephant, but it will never be enough for you. The fact that you are here on this topic, proves it. You can scream "I am happy" a million times, but deep inside you know you are kidding yourself. The physical body of a human, should tell you that you are different from minerals, vegetables, and here comes the difficult part.. We are different from animals, because we have an individual soul. Make of it what you like, but spirituality will haunt you forever ???? You express an opinion, and entitled to have of course. But it is just that, an opinion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tagged Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said: That small voice in our heads that tells us when we are going to make a mistake is, IMO, from "God". Animals don't have a conscience. Only "God" makes us different from animals. Without "God" we'd still be living in caves and trying to kill things with a stick. Animals have very much consious and even great predators, they very unlikely kill each other like humans do. They have rules as well they have obey and very much family feeling. Nonsens that animals are so much different from humans. We are tribe animals. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 21 minutes ago, luckyluke said: You express an opinion, and entitled to have of course. But it is just that, an opinion. Ok, so your opinion is that i have an opinion 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 24 minutes ago, Tagged said: Nonsens that animals are so much different from humans. We are tribe animals. That's a very simplistic assumption, but, as i guess you're talking about yourself, i have no trouble believing you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunmaster Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 It's true that there are many people who don't seem much different to animals. Once they fulfill their basic needs of food and shelter, they only search for entertainment and other distractions (sex, material goods, power) that keep them from realizing that this world is an illusion and they will die soon enough. On the other hand, man is also capable of rising well beyond these basic animalistic urges. He can create beautiful pieces of art, scrutinize deep within nature in the micro and macro cosmos. He can actively go on a path of self realization. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Sunmaster said: It's true that there are many people who don't seem much different to animals. Once they fulfill their basic needs of food and shelter, they only search for entertainment and other distractions (sex, material goods, power) that keep them from realizing that this world is an illusion and they will die soon enough. On the other hand, man is also capable of rising well beyond these basic animalistic urges. He can create beautiful pieces of art, scrutinize deep within nature in the micro and macro cosmos. He can actively go on a path of self realization. Yep, i never heard of a dog, with all respect, writing symphonies or projecting airplanes, wonder how some people who consider themselves intelligent, are not able to grasp the difference. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tagged Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 24 minutes ago, mauGR1 said: That's a very simplistic assumption, but, as i guess you're talking about yourself, i have no trouble believing you. Well done sir, well done! How can I possible argue with You, looking back at what you have written in this topic now for so long. a very simplistic, naive and shallow comment, when you see how great nature is, and how great wild animals cope with the nature, understand it, understand each other, and survive living of what nature gives them right here right now. And thank you for single out two sentences of my post. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeptic7 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 5 hours ago, Sunmaster said: Does science have an explanation for the dynamics of flocks of birds as they fly in unison, thousands of birds at a time? They obviously don't give vocal orders (far too slow) and don't perform the same flight plan every time (not learned, not instinct). So, how do they do it? Surely you're not suggesting divine guidance...are you??? 555! ???? Hardly. First and foremost, (as an ornithologist ????), smaller species of birds have much faster reflexes and response times than the slow and not as graceful human animal. Also birds in general have superior vision. That's a starter for ya. Do some research to learn the rest of the story. There are perfectly natural explanations for this stunning and lovely phenomenon. FYI...even more incredible are the tiny first year hatchling neo-tropical migrant Blackpoll Warbler weighing all of 1 oz (approx 28 g) which most launch out over the Atlantic Ocean at night and fly nonstop for up to 4 days until landing in South America. It's an inate ability (aka natural instinct) which has been ancestraly passed down for thousands upon thousands of generations. The distance getting longer and longer over time due to food availability and climate changes. No divine guidance required, regardless how amazing it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tagged Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 1 minute ago, mauGR1 said: Yep, i never heard of a dog, with all respect, writing symphonies or projecting airplanes, wonder how some people who consider themselves intelligent, are not able to grasp the difference. You really show yourselves now, dont you? Again shallow attempt 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, Tagged said: Well done sir, well done! How can I possible argue with You, looking back at what you have written in this topic now for so long. a very simplistic, naive and shallow comment, when you see how great nature is, and how great wild animals cope with the nature, understand it, understand each other, and survive living of what nature gives them right here right now. And thank you for single out two sentences of my post. I suggest you refine your comprehension skills. Where did i diminished nature and all the creatures ? Yes they are great. On the other hand, you seem to think that humans are like animals. Which is obviously false. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tagged Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 1 minute ago, mauGR1 said: I suggest you refine your comprehension skills. Where did i diminished nature and all the creatures ? Yes they are great. On the other hand, you seem to think that humans are like animals. Which is obviously false. Every animal specie is different with different skills formed by time to survive on this planet. "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid." unknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, Tagged said: Every animal specie is different with different skills formed by time to survive on this planet. "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid." unknown We agree on that. My point is that mere survival is not a life goal for a human. You can give a human all the material riches in the world, but s/he will crave for more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunmaster Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 Just now, Skeptic7 said: Surely you're not suggesting divine guidance...are you??? 555! ???? Hardly. First and foremost, (as an ornithologist ????), smaller species of birds have much faster reflexes and response times than the slow and not as graceful human animal. Also birds in general have superior vision. That's a starter for ya. Do some research to learn the rest of the story. There are perfectly natural explanations for this stunning and lovely phenomenon. FYI...even more incredible are the tiny first year hatchling neo-tropical migrant Blackpoll Warbler weighing all of 1 oz (approx 28 g) which most launch out over the Atlantic Ocean at night and fly nonstop for up to 4 days until landing in South America. It's an inate ability (aka natural instinct) which has been ancestraly passed down for thousands upon thousands of generations. The distance getting longer and longer over time due to food availability and climate changes. No divine guidance required, regardless how amazing it seems. Of course I'm not suggesting divine guidance, but neither do I believe that their movements are guided by vision and reflexes alone. Come on....one bird would have to keep track of all the other birds and which one of them will decide where they go as a whole? You really have a high opinion of birds and their brain power. Many years ago I went to a lecture in London held by Rupert Sheldrake (Phd biochemistry) who proposed the theory of morphic fields. His explanation always made more sense to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tagged Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 6 minutes ago, mauGR1 said: On the other hand, you seem to think that humans are like animals. Which is obviously false. One single fish, of many, do all this to make sure his genes survives. What do you call this? Whales singing, have dialect and so on as underground fungus. What do we actually know really? No humans is not alike other species like dogs, but we do have family alike who have language, use tools, and live in tribes hierarki as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 10 minutes ago, Tagged said: One single fish, of many, do all this to make sure his genes survives. What do you call this? Whales singing, have dialect and so on as underground fungus. What do we actually know really? No humans is not alike other species like dogs, but we do have family alike who have language, use tools, and live in tribes hierarki as well. You have posted that already a couple of months ago. Can you ask your puffer fish friends to draw a square, or a triangle ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckamuck Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 33 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said: Surely you're not suggesting divine guidance...are you??? 555! ???? Hardly. First and foremost, (as an ornithologist ????), smaller species of birds have much faster reflexes and response times than the slow and not as graceful human animal. Also birds in general have superior vision. That's a starter for ya. Do some research to learn the rest of the story. There are perfectly natural explanations for this stunning and lovely phenomenon. FYI...even more incredible are the tiny first year hatchling neo-tropical migrant Blackpoll Warbler weighing all of 1 oz (approx 28 g) which most launch out over the Atlantic Ocean at night and fly nonstop for up to 4 days until landing in South America. It's an inate ability (aka natural instinct) which has been ancestraly passed down for thousands upon thousands of generations. The distance getting longer and longer over time due to food availability and climate changes. No divine guidance required, regardless how amazing it seems. Something as amazing as that and you take it to be proof of no God instead of the opposite. How exactly did they evolve the ability to know where South America is? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tagged Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 Just now, mauGR1 said: You have posted that already a couple of months ago. Can you ask your puffer fish friends to draw a square, or a triangle ? You really are something, arent you I have a plane to catch, so we have to chit chat another time more deeply, not on the run as now. Have a great afternoon sir. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Tagged said: You really are something, arent you I have a plane to catch, so we have to chit chat another time more deeply, not on the run as now. Have a great afternoon sir. Have a good trip, and welcome to chat anytime. I agree that what we are discussing is worth more than one or 2 lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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