Do you believe in God and why

[AsianAtHeart]

On 1/3/2020 at 11:22 PM, Sunmaster said:

Who are his children?

Quote

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:  Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.  (John 1:12-13)

 

Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. (Matthew 5:9)

 

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.  (Galatians 3:26)

 

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. (1 John 3:10)

According to the Bible, while God certainly is the Creator of all life on this planet, He counts as His children those who have accepted Him by faith and who show His righteous spirit in their lives.

 

On 1/3/2020 at 11:22 PM, Sunmaster said:

So, any saintly person living right now....let's take the Dalai Lama as an example, is probably Satan disguised, right? 

Satan is not a human.  No human is Satan; but humans can be influenced by Satan to work against God's government.  When people live righteously, they live for God; but if they do righteous things for evil reasons, they live for themselves and take Satan's side.

[AsianAtHeart]

On 1/4/2020 at 9:50 AM, Sunmaster said:

I'm curious....a degree in religion or religions? Understanding of one religion or all religions?

I took courses in comparative religions in which we studied all of the world's major belief systems: Buddhism, Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, Taoism, Animism, and others.  We also studied some of the distinctions between Protestantism and Catholicism.  A couple that we did not study as "religions" that I now think should make that list are hedonism and atheism.  In fact, people can make a religion out of most anything: consider veganism, feminism, egalitarianism, the animal rights movement (animalism), climatism, etc.   For many today, science is their religion.  They have been (mis)led to believe that science hold all of the answers to life's most important questions, and that nothing generally agreed upon by scientists could ever be wrong.  That's a lot of faith, if you ask me.

 

I'm a scientist, but science is not my religion.

[Sunmaster]

43 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

According to the Bible, while God certainly is the Creator of all life on this planet, He counts as His children those who have accepted Him by faith and who show His righteous spirit in their lives.

 

Satan is not a human.  No human is Satan; but humans can be influenced by Satan to work against God's government.  When people live righteously, they live for God; but if they do righteous things for evil reasons, they live for themselves and take Satan's side.

Thanks for your not so clear answer.

You avoided my question again: has the Dalai Lama earned his way to paradise or not? 

 

So you're saying anyone who is not Christian, who is Christian but also happens to be gay or divorced, who is born into a Christian family but not baptized...is not His child and has no right to enter the kingdom of heaven. Your god basically loves his creation conditionally. How very human of him and sad for humanity....if it were true.

 

Which leads me to my next question: were you a spiritual bigot before you embraced Christianity or did the bible teach you that? 

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by Sunmaster

[Sunmaster]

26 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

I took courses in comparative religions in which we studied all of the world's major belief systems: Buddhism, Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, Taoism, Animism, and others.  We also studied some of the distinctions between Protestantism and Catholicism.  A couple that we did not study as "religions" that I now think should make that list are hedonism and atheism.  In fact, people can make a religion out of most anything: consider veganism, feminism, egalitarianism, the animal rights movement (animalism), climatism, etc.   For many today, science is their religion.  They have been (mis)led to believe that science hold all of the answers to life's most important questions, and that nothing generally agreed upon by scientists could ever be wrong.  That's a lot of faith, if you ask me.

 

I'm a scientist, but science is not my religion.

If after all that studying you can't see that the core of all religions is the same and that all of them hold a piece of the great puzzle, then I honestly think you've wasted your time. 
Maybe you took the courses at a Christian university?

Edited January 7, 2020 by Sunmaster

[AsianAtHeart]

On 1/5/2020 at 7:45 PM, yodsak said:

 

How do you prove, or even hypothesize, the amount of Uranium in your sample at the "start"?  How do you know there was zero lead there?  But that is the assumption that scientists make, isn't it?  They simply have no way of knowing.  But you haven't answered an even more important question: How does dating the rock date the formation it is in?  Do the dates of rocks get automatically reset to "zero" by the uplift from tectonic movements?  Does an earthquake automagically transform lead into uranium?

 

Scientists haven't thought through these things very thoroughly, that much is clear.

 

The fact is, I am a creationist who believes that earth's elements pre-existed the creation week.  The length of time that they have existed is unknown.  Could it have been 4.56 billion years?  Perhaps so.  Could it have been 100,000 years?  I have no way of knowing.  That is all speculation.  What I know is that during that creation week, God created "dry" land and named it earth from land which had, apparently, been submerged below the surface of the water until that point in time.  While I do not for a moment suppose that God was in any way dependent upon pre-existing matter, I believe He likes to use what He has available whenever possible.  It is my conviction that He had already created the matter that we find here before life existed.  Therefore, the age of the minerals may certainly be millions or billions of years--but none of us is able to know precisely the time.  As for life on this planet, the ancient record informs us that this began about 6000 years ago.  Again, there is no proof otherwise.

[yodsak]

34 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

As for life on this planet, the ancient record informs us that this began about 6000 years ago.  Again, there is no proof otherwise.

[AsianAtHeart]

47 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

If after all that studying you can't see that the core of all religions is the same and that all of them hold a piece of the great puzzle, then I honestly think you've wasted your time. 
Maybe you took the courses at a Christian university?

There are actually two common themes that run through every religion--but the one that is present in 90% of them is that people must be saved by their own deeds or righteousness.  Catholics do penance, Buddhists make merit, ascetics meditate, and so on.  The opposite extreme is that God will save everyone with absolutely no participation on their part--just a "Santa Claus" religion where people will go to Heaven simply for asking.  Neither of these is correct.  Taoism seems to sense this by trying to find a "middle way," a path between the extremes--but even this favors the works concept.

 

According to the Bible, the only text that uses the word "religion" says that "Pure religion, and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." (James 1:27)

[AsianAtHeart]

58 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

You avoided my question again: has the Dalai Lama earned his way to paradise or not? 

 

So you're saying anyone who is not Christian, who is Christian but also happens to be gay or divorced, who is born into a Christian family but not baptized...is not His child and has no right to enter the kingdom of heaven. Your god basically loves his creation conditionally. How very human of him and sad for humanity....if it were true.

God is the Judge, not me nor any other human.  I have neither right, nor ability, to determine who will be in Heaven.  I must, therefore, give no answer regarding the Dalai Lama, for it is not within the realm of my ability.  The Bible says that God does not see as man sees, for He looks at the heart whereas we look at the outward appearance.  I believe we will have surprises when we get to Heaven regarding who is there and who is not.  Some we thought would surely be there, won't be, and some we never expected to be there will be there. 

 

You read quite a bit more into what I am saying than I have said or even implied.  I sense that you have some past history with others who have given you their own interpretations, and you are ascribing their views to me.  My views are not based on the typical crowd-think, and I have developed them based on independent evidence and study.  You will likely enjoy the discussion with me more if you lay aside your prior biases.  If I have not been clear, I apologize, and it it your privilege to request clarity.  As I have time, I will try to answer.

 

I do not believe that only Christians will go to Heaven, but I believe that, once there, all will be Christian.  Some who go to Heaven will never have known about God, never have read a Bible, never knew what Jesus means to mankind.  They will learn quickly once there.  However, knowing the truth improves our opportunity dramatically.

[Sunmaster]

Just now, AsianAtHeart said:

The Bible says that God does not see as man sees, for He looks at the heart whereas we look at the outward appearance.

Exactly my point. Where then in the bible does it say gays and all the other unfortunates don't get to heaven? Or is it a matter of interpretation?

 

2 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

My views are not based on the typical crowd-think, and I have developed them based on independent evidence and study.  You will likely enjoy the discussion with me more if you lay aside your prior biases.  If I have not been clear, I apologize, and it it your privilege to request clarity.  As I have time, I will try to answer.

I will try, I promise.

 

3 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

I do not believe that only Christians will go to Heaven, but I believe that, once there, all will be Christian.  Some who go to Heaven will never have known about God, never have read a Bible, never knew what Jesus means to mankind.  They will learn quickly once there.  However, knowing the truth improves our opportunity dramatically.

This view is somehow less extreme than the official stance of the church, but still implies that Christianity is the only true way to reach God. 

[luckyluke]

47 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

I believe we will have surprises when we get to Heaven regarding who is there and who is not.  Some we thought would surely be there, won't be, and some we never expected to be there will be there. 

So I may be there, and you won't.

[Tagged]

15 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

I noticed that, thanks for your honest remark.

I'll have a look at your link too.

I think your argument is not quite right.

I try to be short and clear, and opinionated in my posts.

That's because i enjoy a discussion, it's easy to go over the top.

If you need some criticism, i have for you too ????

 

Im sure you can, and you have for sure done in past. 

 

@AsianAtHeart

Still did not get what you study, except you have said you study religion and biology. Can you be a bit more specific? Just curious what kind of diploma and how deep you hav dugg in to it. 

[Sunmaster]

21 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

There are actually two common themes that run through every religion--but the one that is present in 90% of them is that people must be saved by their own deeds or righteousness.  Catholics do penance, Buddhists make merit, ascetics meditate, and so on.  The opposite extreme is that God will save everyone with absolutely no participation on their part--just a "Santa Claus" religion where people will go to Heaven simply for asking.  Neither of these is correct.  Taoism seems to sense this by trying to find a "middle way," a path between the extremes--but even this favors the works concept.

 

According to the Bible, the only text that uses the word "religion" says that "Pure religion, and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." (James 1:27)

From what I've learned and experienced, I think what all religions and spiritual philosophies have in common is the acknowledgement of a subtle world that is beyond the material world. The word 'religion' comes from the latin word religio, to bind again (man and Divine). Every religion started with one person who had gained this bond with God, and tried to share it with others. 

 

The 'original sin' is forgetting that we always have this bond with God, even right now. Hence the re in religio. This 'sin' is perpetrated in our life with every choice, when we either walk a path towards the Divine or away from it. I believe that we will be our own judge once our consciousness is freed from the limits of the body. Many near death experiences talk about a review of one's own life, seeing certain important moments in our life simultaneously from different points of view, and ultimately understanding and accepting the role in the big universal dance of life. 

Highly spiritually evolved people (Paramahansa Yogananda, the Dalai Lama, Ramana Maharshi, Sri Aurobindo, Ramakrishna, Pierre Tailhard de Chardin,  just to name a few) would never claim that their way is the only way. Because it isn't! 

The concept of God, Brahman, Allah, or whatever you want to call the ultimate source of all being, is indescribable in words, even for the holiest of prophets or wisest of gurus.

What you get are approximations and descriptions that are not even close to the real thing. 

How one can claim to hold the only truth is beyond my understanding.

 

 

[AsianAtHeart]

12 minutes ago, Tagged said:

Im sure you can, and you have for sure done in past. 

 

@AsianAtHeart

Still did not get what you study, except you have said you study religion and biology. Can you be a bit more specific? Just curious what kind of diploma and how deep you hav dugg in to it. 

I'm a certified teacher of both (high school level).  I took an extra year of studies to complete my teaching certifications.  However, you might understand my perspective a little more to know that most of my family are in the medical profession, and I grew up in an education-rich environment in that respect.  I've always had interest in both biology and chemistry.  I was a regular bookworm starting in elementary school, and have an intense love of learning.  I know enough to understand how much I don't know--there's an immense field of knowledge out there, and the most knowledgeable of persons will have only scratched the surface.

[luckyluke]

2 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

How one can claim to hold the only truth is beyond my understanding.

 

I concur with you here.

 

[Tagged]

3 hours ago, AsianAtHeart said:

I'm a certified teacher of both (high school level).  I took an extra year of studies to complete my teaching certifications.  However, you might understand my perspective a little more to know that most of my family are in the medical profession, and I grew up in an education-rich environment in that respect.  I've always had interest in both biology and chemistry.  I was a regular bookworm starting in elementary school, and have an intense love of learning.  I know enough to understand how much I don't know--there's an immense field of knowledge out there, and the most knowledgeable of persons will have only scratched the surface.

 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” There is a condition and a consequence. Jesus is talking to those who believe what he says. ... They will hear clearly from the Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit who lives in them, and the truthhe brings will bring them freedom, or “make them free”.

 

Amen!

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, AsianAtHeart said:

I do not believe that only Christians will go to Heaven, but I believe that, once there, all will be Christian.  Some who go to Heaven will never have known about God, never have read a Bible, never knew what Jesus means to mankind.  They will learn quickly once there.  However, knowing the truth improves our opportunity dramatically.

You are welcome to your beliefs, but I fundamentally disagree with you.

All paths, one destination.

It matters not if one believes in the god of Christians, Jews or Muslims, every Hindu god ever invented, a three headed elephant or a juggler singing kumbaya, so long as one has faith in a greater being and lives their life as well as they can. One's conscience is one's guide to paradise.

[AsianAtHeart]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You are welcome to your beliefs, but I fundamentally disagree with you.

All paths, one destination.

It matters not if one believes in the god of Christians, Jews or Muslims, every Hindu god ever invented, a three headed elephant or a juggler singing kumbaya, so long as one has faith in a greater being and lives their life as well as they can. One's conscience is one's guide to paradise.

Either the Bible is God's Word, and presents the truth, or it is false.  If it is true, then your view is without foundation.  The Bible quotes Jesus as saying: "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:  Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." (Matthew 7:13-14)  According to Jesus, therefore, only the minority are in the correct path to Heaven.

[Sunmaster]

Just now, AsianAtHeart said:

Either the Bible is God's Word, and presents the truth, or it is false.  If it is true, then your view is without foundation.  The Bible quotes Jesus as saying: "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:  Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." (Matthew 7:13-14)  According to Jesus, therefore, only the minority are in the correct path to Heaven.

If you say it has to be either/or, then I will go with false.
But since I don't believe it's "all or nothing", I can see there are valid truths and there are blatant misinterpretations.

 

What you quote for example is true in a sense. Only a minority of people will be strong, resolute and dedicated enough to follow the path to the Source without straying in time-wasting detours. How many people truly put God in the center of their lives and live according to their convictions? How many practice meditation or pray every day, don't lie, don't harm, be always compassionate and selfless...?

Most of us don't lead a monastic life and are still involved very much in worldly matters, we get distracted, we lose direction sometimes. There are as many paths as there are people in the world. The Source is the Alpha and the Omega, the Ground of all Being and every path inevitably will lead to it, sooner or later. Some prefer it to be sooner and choose the narrow path, others have different priorities and choose the wide path. 

But does that mean that everyone else is damned? Hell no! ???? It's not all black and white.

And this fact refers to people of all faiths, not just Christians.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

47 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

Either the Bible is God's Word, and presents the truth, or it is false.  If it is true, then your view is without foundation.  The Bible quotes Jesus as saying: "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:  Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." (Matthew 7:13-14)  According to Jesus, therefore, only the minority are in the correct path to Heaven.

Old testament is history of the Jews, New is history of the early church of Christ.

Not false, but not, IMO the actual word of God because I don't think God speaks to us, as we are too insignificant to bother with.

[mauGR1]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Old testament is history of the Jews, New is history of the early church of Christ.

Not false, but not, IMO the actual word of God because I don't think God speaks to us, as we are too insignificant to bother with.

Yes, it's important to separate the New Testament, and word of Jesus, which is about 2000 years ago, and the other part of the narrative, parts of which are probably coming from Sumerian civilisation and possibly even before that.

The "my religion is better than yours" thing, looks a bit childish, like a young football supporter with a little flag, screaming "my football team is the best".

Which is true and which is false, who knows ? Everyone have to find out by themselves.

[mauGR1]

On 1/5/2020 at 7:49 AM, VincentRJ said:

In the past, it may have been more common for certain mental-health issues to be overlooked because they were difficult for doctors to comprehend and diagnosis.
Believe it or not, decades ago people thought kids are happy-go-lucky, they’re young, they don’t have any worries, so they don’t get depressed,” she said. “We know that’s not true now, and I think part of it is that we’re getting better at catching it.”
 

Well, we can conclude then, that's not a little prosperity and security that have a definite impact on happiness or the lack of it.

The society has become a tad too competitive.

The future is uncertain, it will be interesting to watch how, after 1000's of years of "brain-washing" by institutional religions, the masses will react to what it is imho, another kind of institutional, possibly subtler, "brain-washing".

 

It's no wonder that more and more people in the Western countries, after long shifts of boring jobs in the office, are beginning to look at the spiritual side of things.

[Tagged]

On 1/5/2020 at 3:56 PM, sirineou said:

Sorry I missed it, What was the point? 

Anyway, There is an entertaining new show on Netflix called "the Messiah"   not sure if it is available in Thailand but if one has a VPN and a US netflix account .... also I don't know if I mentioned it also but "the Two Popes" with Anthony Hopkins was a very well made and enjoyable show. 

Just finished Messiah. 

 

Not to many quotes I found interesting in this movie, but one stands out.

 

"Every moment is an oppertunity to make a choice. The choice to think a good thought, to think a bad thought, to act on it, to let it pass. Thats the gods blessing. That in every moment we can create ourselves again."

 

The messenger 

Messiah

[ivor bigun]

lads ,are you giving up ,nobody has said anything for days , ,ille never reach 6000 posts at this rate ????

[yodsak]

On 1/1/2020 at 8:29 AM, AsianAtHeart said:

Scientists have the privilege, as does anyone else, of interpreting the evidences they find however they wish--whether rightly or wrongly.  

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, ivor bigun said:

lads ,are you giving up ,nobody has said anything for days , ,ille never reach 6000 posts at this rate ????

To everything there is a season.

Everything ends, sooner or later, except perhaps the universe, which IMO is born, expands, falls into a black hole and is reborn.

I'm happy the thread existed, as I've changed from agnostic to believer. I guess I always was a believer, but lost my way.

It's also been interesting, observing different viewpoints, and seeing how many assume a being capable of creating life, the universe and everything is bound by primitive human emotions and laws of science, which is of course a nonsense. Humans are barely out of the cave in cosmic terms and to say that our primitive science is capable of defining God is such arrogance. When humans learn to use the rest of our brain we may have the ability to know God better.

 

I'm happy that I was given the ability to see beauty in nature- I never really looked before- but nature is so splendid, that I feel awe when I see something spectacular, awe in the creator that gave us nature and the ability to appreciate it. So, that's something to be grateful to this thread for.

 

I look forward to many more like it.

 

 

[mauGR1]

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm happy that I was given the ability to see beauty in nature- I never really looked before- but nature is so splendid, that I feel awe when I see something spectacular, awe in the creator that gave us nature and the ability to appreciate it. So, that's something to be grateful

When you look at the order of the universe with the eyes of the child it's really hard to imagine that all this happened "by chance".

The infinite in the nature and the repeating of patterns never cease to amaze.

Edited January 15, 2020 by mauGR1

[ivor bigun]

2 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

When you look at the order of the universe with the eyes of the child it's really hard to imagine that all this happened "by chance".

The infinite in the nature and the repeating of patterns never cease to amaze.

You are saying the one thing i have always wondered about ,how could it all happen by chance , but somehow i cannot see that an entity started it ,or that he sent his son down to earth ,,unless we are the only beings in the whole universes .

[thaibeachlovers]

14 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

You are saying the one thing i have always wondered about ,how could it all happen by chance , but somehow i cannot see that an entity started it ,or that he sent his son down to earth ,,unless we are the only beings in the whole universes .

He didn't send his "son" anywhere. God doesn't have children. Had the people of that era been told that God was some sort of force unrecognisable to humans, how many would have believed that? The religious people had to use metaphors to explain things to a primitive people- hence virgin birth, son of god, talking bushes, stones with words God wrote on them, etc.

 

somehow i cannot see that an entity started it

NO HUMAN is capable of understanding what God is. When was the last time a human created a galaxy from scratch? We either believe or we don't- up to us. The inquisition ended centuries ago.

[mauGR1]

17 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

You are saying the one thing i have always wondered about ,how could it all happen by chance , but somehow i cannot see that an entity started it ,or that he sent his son down to earth ,,unless we are the only beings in the whole universes .

It would be foolish to think that we are the only beings in the universe.

Imagine a bunch of ants discussing the mechanics of a jet plane, so are we when we try to understand the intelligent design which is at the source of the creation of the universe.

[ivor bigun]

11 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

He didn't send his "son" anywhere. God doesn't have children. Had the people of that era been told that God was some sort of force unrecognisable to humans, how many would have believed that? The religious people had to use metaphors to explain things to a primitive people- hence virgin birth, son of god, talking bushes, stones with words God wrote on them, etc.

 

somehow i cannot see that an entity started it

NO HUMAN is capable of understanding what God is. When was the last time a human created a galaxy from scratch? We either believe or we don't- up to us. The inquisition ended centuries ago.

So there is something that started the universe ,lets call it God , but Jesus or MO or any of the others are just ordinary people ,made up by man to have been sent to " save us"