ThaiBunny Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 12 minutes ago, mauGR1 said: If you don't like the world as it is, move your sorry ass and do something to make it better, instead of whining ! Surely that would be usurping God's work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 9 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said: Surely that would be usurping God's work? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeptic7 Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 6 hours ago, Sunmaster said: Materialists love the shortcuts of the mind. "The universe? Pfff, it's just a mix of mostly dark matter and dark energy." (plain speak = no <deleted> clue) "Subatomic particles? Pfff, they're just particles that can be waves and particles at the same time. Nothing to it" (plain speak = see above) The sad thing is that they look at the magnificent world/universe and its uncountable wonders, and all they need to do is explain it away with some over-simplistic explanation "It's just this...it's just that". As if that could make the amazing wonders less wondrous and easier to grasp with their limited imagination. Fact is, we have no bloody clue how the universe really works. Science has still no idea what dark matter is, what "junk" DNA is, what gravity is and how the universe started in the first place. I get it, explaining these things away with mind-bogglingly shallow explanations might give you some sort of peace of mind and a smug sense of superiority, but for those who can see through the illusion, it's plainly obvious that you're compensating for a lack of understanding and insecurity. So go on making fools of yourselves while the rest of us sit back and enjoy the spectacle. Once there's no room left in the world for wondering at God's creation– there'll be plenty of crude, contemptuous, wisecracking, fun-poking imitations of it. ------------- “The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existence. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery each day. (Einstein) “The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion that stands at the cradle of true art and true science.” (also Einstein) “The possession of knowledge does not kill the sense of wonder and mystery. There is always more mystery.”― Anais Nin “The Cosmos is all that is or was or ever will be. Our feeblest contemplations of the Cosmos stir us -- there is a tingling in the spine, a catch in the voice, a faint sensation, as if a distant memory, of falling from a height. We know we are approaching the greatest of mysteries.”― Carl Sagan, Cosmos “Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are a part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”― Max Planck, Where is Science Going? “One is never afraid of the unknown; one is afraid of the known coming to an end.”― Krishnamurti “Whenever we proceed from the known into the unknown we may hope to understand, but we may have to learn at the same time a new meaning of the word 'understanding.”― Werner Karl Heisenberg, Physics and Philosophy: The Revolution in Modern Science You know you've got it reversed. It's the believers and "woo-sters" that deny evidence and stick to their non-findings and insert "god" and "creator" or other silly nothingness into the equation as an answer. It's the believers and the science deniers that always take the easy way out with overly simplistic answers. Science isn't afraid of saying DON'T KNOW, but not giving up. There's alot we don't know, but it's SCIENCE and the scientific method that never stops questioning. Never stops looking. Never takes a shortcut. Corrects itself when a better answer with better evidence comes along. You KNOW this. Fact is we know infinitely more about how the universe works and "what makes the world go round" than we did last week...last month...last year...a decade ago...a century ago...millennia ago...THANKS only to science. This cannot be denied by any honest individual who is actually searching for the truth. Do you deny it? And using Carl Sagan in your anti-science campaign is hysterical! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunmaster Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 Just now, Skeptic7 said: Science isn't afraid of saying DON'T KNOW Science may not, but you are. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeptic7 Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, Sunmaster said: Science may not, but you are. As usual, crushed...so redirect with a silly diversion. You totally dissed science and it's method by stating a load of falsehoods...then when corrected...you go on a baseless attack to divert the very issues that you brought up. Why? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunmaster Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 (edited) Just now, Skeptic7 said: As usual, crushed...so redirect with a silly diversion. You totally dissed science and it's method by stating a load of falsehoods...then when corrected...you go on a baseless attack to divert the very issues that you brought up. Why? When did I ever dis science? At most I acknowledged its achievements and also its limitations. What are the "falsehoods" you feel so strongly about? What are you even talking about? Why are you even talking? Edited January 23, 2020 by Sunmaster 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bert bloggs Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 Wonder if God has sent this new virus to wipe out the Chinese as they do not believe in him? pity they travel the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirineou Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, Sunmaster said: When did I ever dis science? At most I acknowledged its achievements and also its limitations. people misunderstand what science is and mistake it for technology. Science is a process of validating a Theory so what are its limitations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, sirineou said: people misunderstand what science is and mistake it for technology. Science is a process of validating a Theory so what are its limitations? Once you admit that physical senses are limited, and human science is based on the physical perception of the physical world, there you have your answer. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirineou Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 6 minutes ago, mauGR1 said: Once you admit that physical senses are limited, and human science is based on the physical perception of the physical world, there you have your answer. That's not a limitation on science, it is a limitation on understanding what science is. Your argument is a cyclical argument chasing its tail. Your side makes an incredible claim , we say prove it. you say there is no proof , and we are back where we started . If no proof is possible , how is your claim any more credible than any other claim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, sirineou said: That's not a limitation on science, it is a limitation on understanding what science is. Your argument is a cyclical argument chasing its tail. Your side makes an incredible claim , we say prove it. you say there is no proof , and we are back where we started . If no proof is possible , how is your claim any more credible than any other claim? So how comes that your unlimited science cannot disprove intelligent design ? Yes, it's a cyclical argument, which humans have been debating since aeons. So, again, one can accept that science is unlimited, but human science is not there yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetCowboy Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 57 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said: You know you've got it reversed. It's the believers and "woo-sters" that deny evidence and stick to their non-findings and insert "god" and "creator" or other silly nothingness into the equation as an answer. It's the believers and the science deniers that always take the easy way out with overly simplistic answers. Science isn't afraid of saying DON'T KNOW, but not giving up. There's alot we don't know, but it's SCIENCE and the scientific method that never stops questioning. Never stops looking. Never takes a shortcut. Corrects itself when a better answer with better evidence comes along. You KNOW this. Fact is we know infinitely more about how the universe works and "what makes the world go round" than we did last week...last month...last year...a decade ago...a century ago...millennia ago...THANKS only to science. This cannot be denied by any honest individual who is actually searching for the truth. Do you deny it? And using Carl Sagan in your anti-science campaign is hysterical! I don’t think that the ignorance of the credulous is any basis for the denial of the existence of God. Many people labour with an ill-informed misunderstanding of quantum physics or relativity, but their ignorance does not contradict the principles they misunderstand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sirineou Posted January 23, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, mauGR1 said: So how comes that your unlimited science cannot disprove intelligent design ? Yes, it's a cyclical argument, which humans have been debating since aeons. So, again, one can accept that science is unlimited, but human science is not there yet. Because it is as impossible as disproving the existence of leprechauns You can't positively prove something does not exist , only that something exists. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 4 minutes ago, sirineou said: Because it is as impossible as disproving the existence of leprechauns You can't positively prove something does not exist , only that something exists. Well, you said that science is unlimited.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunmaster Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 38 minutes ago, sirineou said: people misunderstand what science is and mistake it for technology. Science is a process of validating a Theory so what are its limitations? Science explores the material world and it's great at that. When science bangs it's head against the spiritual realities and comes back with no answers, materialists take that as a validation for their belief system, when in fact it only means that it doesn't have the tools to explore that field. That's the limitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirineou Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 Just now, Sunmaster said: Science explores the material world and it's great at that. When science bangs it's head against the spiritual realities and comes back with no answers, materialists take that as a validation for their belief system, when in fact it only means that it doesn't have the tools to explore that field. That's the limitation. There are no "spiritual realities" this is something you guys made up but offer no proof because no proof exists. Materialism is not a belief system it is the opposite of a belief system, that is why it is called Materialism. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirineou Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 8 minutes ago, mauGR1 said: Well, you said that science is unlimited.. like everything else, it is limited ti what exists. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunmaster Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 22 minutes ago, sirineou said: That's not a limitation on science, it is a limitation on understanding what science is. Your argument is a cyclical argument chasing its tail. Your side makes an incredible claim , we say prove it. you say there is no proof , and we are back where we started . If no proof is possible , how is your claim any more credible than any other claim? STOP Not a cyclical argument at all! Our side makes a perfectly credible claim, you say prove it, we say sure, start meditating and you can find out by yourself, you say you don't believe in it and that's the end of it. So, what do you want? The tools are there for you. You just have to use them. Not using them and still crying about the "no proof" is just childish behavior. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirineou Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 1 minute ago, Sunmaster said: STOP Not a cyclical argument at all! Our side makes a perfectly credible claim, you say prove it, we say sure, start meditating and you can find out by yourself, you say you don't believe in it and that's the end of it. So, what do you want? The tools are there for you. You just have to use them. Not using them and still crying about the "no proof" is just childish behavior. And i tell you that you can fly. Proof, what proof, go jump of a cliff and you will find out 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirineou Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 14 minutes ago, Sunmaster said: Science explores the material world and it's great at that. When science bangs it's head against the spiritual realities and comes back with no answers, materialists take that as a validation for their belief system, when in fact it only means that it doesn't have the tools to explore that field. That's the limitation. Your laughter is no proof , the only thing it proves is that you have no answer , and no respect for my argument Later for you 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunmaster Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 6 minutes ago, sirineou said: There are no "spiritual realities" this is something you guys made up but offer no proof because no proof exists. Materialism is not a belief system it is the opposite of a belief system, that is why it is called Materialism. Until you try to sit down, meditate and directly experience what a spiritual reality is, you will never be able to be really certain. A belief system is made up of many parts. These parts can be religious, secular, political, cultural etc....materialism is one of them. A belief system is an ideology or set of principles that helps us to interpret our everyday reality. This could be in the form of religion, political affiliation, philosophy, or spirituality, among many other things. These beliefs are shaped and influenced by a number of different factors. Our knowledge on a certain topic, the way we were raised, and even peer pressure from others can help to create and even change our belief systems. The convictions that come from these systems are a way for us to make sense of the world around us and to define our role within it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunmaster Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, sirineou said: Your laughter is no proof , the only thing it proves is that you have no answer , and no respect for my argument Later for you Well, you expect respect after you so conveniently "disproved" my argument with "there are no spiritual realities". Should I say thank you very much for opening my eyes, thanks to your brilliant insight? 555 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetCowboy Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Sunmaster said: Science explores the material world and it's great at that. When science bangs it's head against the spiritual realities and comes back with no answers, materialists take that as a validation for their belief system, when in fact it only means that it doesn't have the tools to explore that field. That's the limitation. To what extent are spiritual realities real? Can they be perceived by second or third parties? Can you demonstrate the realities you have perceived through meditation to me without me meditating and separately experiencing the same, or possibly similar, realities? As I understand, science assumes that there is one reality of which we are all observers, as well as participants. The film The Matrix postulated that we were not experiencing such a reality Edited January 23, 2020 by StreetCowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunmaster Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 10 minutes ago, sirineou said: And i tell you that you can fly. Proof, what proof, go jump of a cliff and you will find out I expected more from you. Is meditation the same as killing yourself? Why don't you try? Are you scared to find something that won't fit in your belief system? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirineou Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, Sunmaster said: Well, you expect respect after you so conveniently "disproved" my argument with "there are no spiritual realities". Should I say thank you very much for opening my eyes, thanks to your brilliant insight? 555 Sorry , I did not realise that you were the only one allowed to make unsubstantiated claims. Best of luck in your journey. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunmaster Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said: To what extent are spiritual realities real? Can they be perceived by second or third parties? Can you demonstrate the realities you have perceived through meditation to me without me meditating and separately experiencing the same, or possibly similar, realities? As I understand, science assumes that there is one reality of which we are all observers, as well as participants. The film The Matrix postulated that we were not experiencing such a reality I can't show you my visions and experiences. Every person's path is unique and has to be taken individually. This though, doesn't mean that the experiences you have during meditation don't have similarities to mine and the roadblocks along the way are not similar to mine. That's why we can speak of the science of yoga. While I can not show or transmit my experiences to you directly, you can start meditating and experience them for yourself. Yoga means "union", it re-unites us with the divine, and it does so through meditation. These meditation techniques are clearly structured and organized and the steps to unity are limited. These steps can be taken by all, as long as they are willing to make the effort. If you're not willing to make the effort, no problem, move along, but don't tell me there are no spiritual realities because you have no idea what you're talking about. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunmaster Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 10 minutes ago, sirineou said: Sorry , I did not realise that you were the only one allowed to make unsubstantiated claims. Best of luck in your journey. Again, which of my claims is unsubstantiated? I offered you a way to find a clear answer once and for all. Is it my fault that you rather sit on your ass and whine? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metempsychotic Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Sunmaster said: the science of yoga Err yeah, ok. You just lost me completely. Science indeed. 5000 or so posts, one would have thought you guys would have come up with an answer by now. Edited January 23, 2020 by metempsychotic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunmaster Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 14 minutes ago, metempsychotic said: Err yeah, ok. You just lost me completely. Science indeed. 5000 or so posts, one would have thought you guys would have come up with an answer by now. sci·ence /ˈsīəns/ noun the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment. ------------------- The same principles are applied to the non-physical world. Is that really so difficult to understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 1 hour ago, sirineou said: like everything else, it is limited ti what exists. Don't you think opinion may differ on what exists and what doesn't ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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