Do you believe in God and why

[VincentRJ]

8 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

 

On a merely materialistic view, you are right, yet the young generations in the Western countries don't seem to be as happy as a few decades ago.

 

Could it be that capitalism, like other ideologies and religions, is old and tired ?

I know that "Socialism" is a bad word for somebody, but if we really want a future for this planet, we should all try to be less selfish; capitalism is not a bad system at all, but it should be adapted to serve the planet and its population as a whole.

There seems to be a lot of conflicting views on this issue. It's very difficult to ascertain whether kids today, in general, are less happy than kids a few decades ago.

 

If it's true that they are less happy, it's probably, at least partly, because of the constant reporting in the media of bad news every day, and the instant access to such news through the iPhone and TV.

 

Bullying on Facebook would be another cause, as well as fake news on Climate Change which probably causes many kids to identify with Greta Thunberg's feelings on the issue.

 

There's also the issue of better or more comprehensive medical care which reveals cases of anxiety and stress which were overlooked in the past. Refer the following article.
https://www.businessinsider.sg/how-being-kid-is-different-now-than-it-was-20-years-ago/

 

"Vinson told Insider that “there seems to be an increase in depression and anxiety in kids today,” but is quick to point out that she thinks this is largely because it’s been increasingly more recognized.
In the past, it may have been more common for certain mental-health issues to be overlooked because they were difficult for doctors to comprehend and diagnosis.
Believe it or not, decades ago people thought kids are happy-go-lucky, they’re young, they don’t have any worries, so they don’t get depressed,” she said. “We know that’s not true now, and I think part of it is that we’re getting better at catching it.”
 

[sirineou]

9 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

It is so unfair to blame slavery on Christianity. Slavery was a worldwide phenomenon, that still exists in some non Christian nations. But it was the Christians that moved to have the practice ended. It is much more accurate to say that Christians were instrumental in ending slavery. It exists now only under cover and in secret.

 

Socialism has earned it reputation. Give control of the means of production over to the socialists and watch the anarchy unfold. Every time it results in murder and poverty. European democratic socialism has its merits, but realize they are free market economies. Marx would disapprove. And Europe has lost its identity and will be a dystopian horror within two decades.

I did not blame Christianity about Slavery at all, No Christian could ever hold slaves. A person can call themselves Christian but if they don't follow the teachings of Christ are they really Christians , they are Cinos

Christian In Name Only. which was the point of my post.

 Indeed Christians ended slavery, 

as in capitalism so in Socialism there are  extremes . two ends to the spectrum with plenty of room in between. I don't see any of the European socialist countries controlling the means of production.just a more equitable distribution of wealth. what could be more Christian?

 

[ThaiBunny]

34 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

It is so unfair to blame slavery on Christianity. Slavery was a worldwide phenomenon, that still exists in some non Christian nations. But it was the Christians that moved to have the practice ended. It is much more accurate to say that Christians were instrumental in ending slavery. It exists now only under cover and in secret.

The slaves imported to the Americas were sold by Muslim slave traders in Africa. Europeans did not say to themselves (and act on it) "I know, let's go kidnap some people in Africa and use them as slaves". They bought what was already available in the slave markets

Edited January 5, 2020 by ThaiBunny

[canuckamuck]

41 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

The slaves imported to the Americas were sold by Muslim slave traders in Africa. Europeans did not say to themselves (and act on it) "I know, let's go kidnap some people in Africa and use them as slaves". They bought what was already available in the slave markets

 There were slaves a long time before there were any Muslims or an America. It was a fact of life that didn't get a lot of ethical consideration until the 1800s

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, canuckamuck said:

 There were slaves a long time before there were any Muslims or an America. It was a fact of life that didn't get a lot of ethical consideration until the 1800s

I think it got some consideration year 0001 AD

[canuckamuck]

13 minutes ago, sirineou said:

I think it got some consideration year 0001 AD

Sure it got some, The Bible gives guidelines for the ethical treatment of slaves. At that time though it was also a right to become a slave in exchange for food and protection, or for the payment of debt.

[geronimo]

We, a tiny little ball suspended on the outer reaches of the Milky Way, are insignificant in the scheme of things. Scientists already know that there are more stars in the universe than grains of sand on our entire planet, with each star having at least one planet in orbit.

 

For humanity, it is now a race to get off this planet before we destroy it (50-100 years from now), otherwise us, and everything else on the planet will be no more.

 

Whilst I'm not ruling out a higher power, it most certainly is NOT any of the deities we have created in our history.

 

Huge congrats to Ivor for this thread ...... it must have exceeded even his highest expectations, and he has started other mind boggling threads, such as "are we becoming our parents?". This will surely make Ivor a very real POTY contender in 2020.

 

Back to god, or rather lack of him ........  All religions (exception of Buddhism, which is a philosophy) were created to put fear into the masses, and TBH I find it astounding that, in this day and age, a person can believe that a man called Jesus who was born of a virgin was nothing other that a carpenter.

 

In the past 2,000 years, not a single shred of evidence has been found for the existence of a deity, so it is my considered opinion that all of them are fictitious characters created by humans to achieve their ends.

 

I sincerely hope that ends the topic of god ......

Edited January 5, 2020 by geronimo

[AsianAtHeart]

I Trust in God

 

Because He gives me peace,
I know that He is real;
God's love will never cease--
A love which I can feel.
But God has blessed so much,
I fear I cannot tell
How oft' I've felt His touch,
Nor could I tell it well.
Each day His mercies, new,
Bring life and happiness.
The sun, the rain, the dew
Come not from fickleness.
So is the joy He brings--
A constant, steady sense
That as the new day rings
His mercies are immense.
Though I've been close to death,
His promises to me
Speak hope and give me breath
In praise eternally.
For those who trust in God
Forever they may live--
God's children stand as awed
That He should so forgive!
For all of us know how
Our lives are marred with sin;
Yet God, in mercy, now,
Will pardon, cleanse within.
His invitation wings
To every sin-sick soul--
"Do come to me!" it rings,
"And I will make you whole."

 

[ThaiBunny]

2 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

I Trust in God ...

I felt the same way until I realised it was the LSD I'd been given

[Sunmaster]

46 minutes ago, geronimo said:

Huge congrats to Ivor for this thread ...... it must have exceeded even his highest expectations, and he has started other mind boggling threads, such as "are we becoming our parents?". This will surely make Ivor a very real POTY contender in 2020.

Yes, congrats to Ivor for starting the thread, but the real credit should go to the posters who have contributed to growing it and taking it from the initial aggressive accusations to a more mature exchange of opinions. 

 

50 minutes ago, geronimo said:

Back to god, or rather lack of him ........  All religions (exception of Buddhism, which is a philosophy) were created to put fear into the masses, and TBH I find it astounding that, in this day and age, a person can believe that a man called Jesus who was born of a virgin was nothing other that a carpenter.

If Buddhism is a religion or not is debatable, but ok.
All religions were created to put fear into the masses

I don't know where you got this idea, but it wasn't quite like that. Maybe on some level it evolved into a power structure out to control the masses, but the beginnings were very different. In the beginning, there was always one person/prophet who had the ability to be in union with the Source or communicate with God. This person's greatest wish was for others to be able to find happiness too and they described the path they took in order for others to follow them. 
Once such a prophet dies, what happens with his teachings takes on a whole new dynamic. Teachings get distorted, books written by non-enlightened followers are elevated to absolute truth, the essence of truth gets diluted over time. Meaning, the initial intentions behind the teachings were very different from the later interpretations/distortions.

 

1 hour ago, geronimo said:

In the past 2,000 years, not a single shred of evidence has been found for the existence of a deity, so it is my considered opinion that all of them are fictitious characters created by humans to achieve their ends.

What kind of evidence are you looking for? 

 

1 hour ago, geronimo said:

I sincerely hope that ends the topic of god ......

Erm, why should it end? 

[Sunmaster]

47 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

I Trust in God

 

Yes, me too.

 

Are you not going to answer my question?

[mauGR1]

3 hours ago, sirineou said:

as in capitalism so in Socialism there are  extremes . two ends to the spectrum with plenty of room in between. I don't see any of the European socialist countries controlling the means of production.just a more equitable distribution of wealth. what could be more Christian?

 

Hopefully more and more people in the future will understand that we are part of the whole living world, and that we are all connected one way or another, and we have to find a balance between a healthy individualism and the compassion for the less fortunate.

 

[yodsak]

On 12/30/2019 at 8:18 AM, soalbundy said:

Many regard Plato's Atlantis to be a story that he wrote and not a reality that he saw with his own eyes.

[Sunmaster]

Incidentally, I was watching a documentary about a Nepalese boy yesterday.

At the age of 15 he decided he would meditate until final liberation and then allegedly sat under a tree for months, without food or water, only rarely moving or coming out of meditation.

I know very little about him and I'm not claiming it to be true or otherwise. You can make up your mind one way or another by watching the documentary below.

 

 I just find it interesting to see the dynamics of what happens around him. He speaks or does very little other than meditating, but you can easily see how his followers start to organize committees, security and even businesses around him. The documentary often questions the motives behind it all and wonders if it's all an elaborate scam. They go as far as pointing a camera on him for over 75 hours straight, during which time he barely moves his body. They didn't see him eating or drinking anything. 
Watch all 5 parts, it's not long....about 45mins.
 

 

This is how I imagine the start of a new religion and how the arrival of a new Messiah would look like. A situation where truth would mix with fake news, where one couldn't distinguish anymore what is real and what is illusion.

 

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4479240.stm#sa-link_location=more-story-5&intlink_from_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2Fworld-south-asia-10776957&intlink_ts=1578203504931&story_slot=1-sa

Edited January 5, 2020 by Sunmaster

[sirineou]

2 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Hopefully more and more people in the future will understand that we are part of the whole living world, and that we are all connected one way or another, and we have to find a balance between a healthy individualism and the compassion for the less fortunate.

 

If we are to survive as a species there is no other way IMO.

 

[Tagged]

 @Sunmaster

An reincarnated Jim Morrisson

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

Incidentally, I was watching a documentary about a Nepalese boy yesterday.

At the age of 15 he decided he would meditate until final liberation and then allegedly sat under a tree for months, without food or water, only rarely moving or coming out of meditation.

I know very little about him and I'm not claiming it to be true or otherwise. You can make up your mind one way or another by watching the documentary below.

 

 I just find it interesting to see the dynamics of what happens around him. He speaks or does very little other than meditating, but you can easily see how his followers start to organize committees, security and even businesses around him. The documentary often questions the motives behind it all and wonders if it's all an elaborate scam. They go as far as pointing a camera on him for over 75 hours straight, during which time he barely moves his body. They didn't see him eating or drinking anything. 
Watch all 5 parts, it's not long....about 45mins.
 

 

This is how I imagine the start of a new religion and how the arrival of a new Messiah would look like. A situation where truth would mix with fake news, where one couldn't distinguish anymore what is real and what is illusion.

 

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4479240.stm#sa-link_location=more-story-5&intlink_from_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.com%2Fnews%2Fworld-south-asia-10776957&intlink_ts=1578203504931&story_slot=1-sa

He looks well fed to me. 

"Claims by Bomjon's followers of his meditating for months without eating or sleeping have been disputed by reporters "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_Bahadur_Bomjon

 

"at the age of 15, he retreated into the jungle to pray for 10 months, local media reported at the time. According to his followers, he did so without food, sleep or water.

Those claims were never independently verified,"

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/10/asia/buddha-boy-ashram-intl/index.html

A simple Google search of his name brings pages of reports from respected sources not one verifies the claims. It is also significant that he is not recognised by the Dalai Lama who I am sure must have looked in to this miraculous event that would be significant to his faith. 

 

 

 

[Tagged]

7 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

Believe it or not, decades ago people thought kids are happy-go-lucky, they’re young, they don’t have any worries, so they don’t get depressed,” she said. “We know that’s not true now, and I think part of it is that we’re getting better at catching it.”
 

You do not think kids where more happy before tv, internet and social media? 

 

We did not know anything better when I grow up, and where happy for used skies, a sunny trip to the beach in summer, and a coca cola or dish of spagetti or slice of pizza. 

 

Today kids see and learn about the world from young age, and I do not think that is good for them to have grown up worries before their brain is fully developed. 

[sirineou]

11 minutes ago, Tagged said:

You do not think kids where more happy before tv, internet and social media? 

 

We did not know anything better when I grow up, and where happy for used skies, a sunny trip to the beach in summer, and a coca cola or dish of spagetti or slice of pizza. 

 

Today kids see and learn about the world from young age, and I do not think that is good for them to have grown up worries before their brain is fully developed. 

I understand your point,

but even though ignorance might be bliss there are inherent dangers contained therein, the least of it being stress from knowing the truth. I sealed and protected my daughter from it all until a certain age , as any good parent would do. but there comes a point where the truth is more important than comfort.

IMO  

[Tagged]

4 minutes ago, sirineou said:

I understand your point,

but even though ignorance might be bliss there are inherent dangers contained therein, the least of it being stress from knowing the truth. I sealed and protected my daughter from it all until a certain age , as any good parent would do. but there comes a point where the truth is more important than comfort.

IMO  

I completely aggree 100%, I felt betrayed when I really found out how the world was, and how people, religions, cooperations etc worked. Anyway, there is a middleway between everything, and to little is to little and to much can be to much of it. 

[Sunmaster]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

He looks well fed to me. 

"Claims by Bomjon's followers of his meditating for months without eating or sleeping have been disputed by reporters "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_Bahadur_Bomjon

 

"at the age of 15, he retreated into the jungle to pray for 10 months, local media reported at the time. According to his followers, he did so without food, sleep or water.

Those claims were never independently verified,"

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/10/asia/buddha-boy-ashram-intl/index.html

A simple Google search of his name brings pages of reports from respected sources not one verifies the claims. It is also significant that he is not recognised by the Dalai Lama who I am sure must have looked in to this miraculous event that would be significant to his faith. 

 

 

 

That's why I said, I don't claim it to be true or not. It's inevitable that controversy would erupt when such extraordinary claims are presented. 

The documentary by Discovry Channel shows a camera recording him for over 75hours straight, during which he barely shifted his body.

It's well known that certain yogis have a higher control of their bodies, so you never know. 

 

In any case, that was not the point of the post.

[Tagged]

14 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

That's why I said, I don't claim it to be true or not. It's inevitable that controversy would erupt when such extraordinary claims are presented. 

The documentary by Discovry Channel shows a camera recording him for over 75hours straight, during which he barely shifted his body.

It's well known that certain yogis have a higher control of their bodies, so you never know. 

 

In any case, that was not the point of the post.

Discovery have a bad reputation when it comes to buying relieable documentaries " has garnered criticism, especially from the scientific community, for being scientifically inaccurate" is a common coment on the channel seen often. 

[VincentRJ]

3 hours ago, Tagged said:

You do not think kids where more happy before tv, internet and social media? 

 

Some kids might have been. I wasn't. I thought life was <deleted> when I was a teenager in the U.K. At the age of 19, in 1961, I left the U.K. for an exciting adventure, hitch hiking around the world. My first stop was Iran where I worked in a few different jobs for 10 months, such as Proof Reader for an English newspaper, a Warehouse supervisor, and a private English teacher.

 

When I left to continue on my travels, I got no further east than Thailand, where I taught English for 14 months, even getting a work permit eventually, despite having no teaching qualifications.

 

I was extremely impressed by the 'apparent' happiness of the Thai people and their friendliness. Despite being much poorer than the average person in the U.K., they seemed much more content and happy. I had a great time, and couldn't resist returning to Thailand on a few occasions many years later to see how things have changed.

 

What I now see, whenever I travel on the BTS in Bangkok, are crowds of Thais sitting next to each other, all glumly staring at their iPhones. ????

Edited January 5, 2020 by VincentRJ

[Skeptic7]

9 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

Sure it got some, The Bible gives guidelines for the ethical treatment of slaves. At that time though it was also a right to become a slave in exchange for food and protection, or for the payment of debt.

555 yeah ethical like...

it's OK to beat your slaves as long as they don't die within a day or 2. (Exodus 21:20-21) 

 

They are your property and may be passed on to your children. (Leviticus 25:44-46) 

 

Slaves obey your earthly masters with respect and fear. (Ephesians 6:5-9) 

 

[canuckamuck]

21 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

555 yeah ethical like...

it's OK to beat your slaves as long as they don't die within a day or 2. (Exodus 21:20-21) 

 

They are your property and may be passed on to your children. (Leviticus 25:44-46) 

 

Slaves obey your earthly masters with respect and fear. (Ephesians 6:5-9) 

 

Those are the words of the good guys, can you imagine what it was like for the slaves of the unbelievers?

[yodsak]

On 12/31/2019 at 10:28 AM, AsianAtHeart said:

Many skeptics deride the idea of a world-wide flood that covered the tops of all the mountains based on the height of Mount Everest at over 29,000 feet.  If Everest had existed at the time of the Flood, they would indeed have a case.  However, they have not stopped to consider the manner and timing of Everest's origins.

 

[Skeptic7]

1 hour ago, canuckamuck said:

Those are the words of the good guys, can you imagine what it was like for the slaves of the unbelievers?

"good guys"?!? 

 

Another typical sad and sorry non answer by a Christian defending atrocities in their book. ????

[canuckamuck]

51 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

"good guys"?!? 

 

Another typical sad and sorry non answer by a Christian defending atrocities in their book. ????

You will have to define non-answer.

Especially considering there was no question.

C'mon it will give you another chance to make frowny faces and stick out your tongue.

Edited January 5, 2020 by canuckamuck

[sirineou]

12 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

Sure it got some, The Bible gives guidelines for the ethical treatment of slaves. At that time though it was also a right to become a slave in exchange for food and protection, or for the payment of debt.

I understand what you are saying, and agree, The sovereign state is a recent development in human history. and slavery was an accepted part of how things ware. 

But Christianity was an attempt to change that . and as such it was a failure until recent times, and perhaps not even now depending on one's definition of slavery. 

   IMO one can not call him/herself a Christian if one does not follow the tenets of Christianity, In fact often times as an Atheist, I consider myself a much better Christian than most Christians. If one was to take the tenets of Christianity and apply a numerical score to their adherence,I think most Atheists would score much higher that most Christians not because atheists are better people but  simple because Atheism is a conscious attempt at a moral life , where many christians were simply  born in to it and simply drift through it with little effort on their part.. 

 People like you and MauGR1 (what's that his licence plate LOL) who make an effort, think about it and are willing to be challenged are few and far inbetween. And not all Atheists are sincere also, many are in it because they feel it gives them some sort of moral and intellectual superiority. 

The forgiveness concept was a clever attempt IMO to bolster the  ranks, with non performing "Christians" that are tolerated as long as they pay their dues.  

  The more I think about it the messier it sounds, which i guess is as it should be as we are imperfect beings.

 

 

Edited January 5, 2020 by sirineou

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, sirineou said:

The more I think about it the messier it sounds, which i guess is as it should be as we are imperfect beings.

That's because you are not sure if you're a believer or an atheist ????

It's amazingly clear for me, but maybe that's because at the moment i have not a woman pestering around.