Do you believe in God and why

[mauGR1]

“Everything in this book may be wrong.”
― Richard Bach, Messiah's Handbook: Reminders for the Advanced Soul ????

[Tippaporn]

Just now, mauGR1 said:

Funny that i was reading many of his books many years ago, and i greatly admired his writing style.

Yet i was missing something, perhaps i should re-read some of his works.

Illusions was a masterpiece.  Learning while laughing all the way.  Bach always claimed that he did not write it.  It came to him.  Excellent book as it removes the dour seriousness of the subject matter.

 

Another book, or rather series since it ended up as a trilogy, is Jane Roberts' The Education Of Oversoul Seven.  Extremely humourous while simultaneously exceedingly instructive.

[Tippaporn]

9 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

“Everything in this book may be wrong.”
― Richard Bach, Messiah's Handbook: Reminders for the Advanced Soul ????

By the way, if you don't have a physical copy the book is available as a free PDF on-line.

[Tippaporn]

Bach knew Jane Roberts as well.

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Illusions was a masterpiece.  Learning while laughing all the way.  Bach always claimed that he did not write it.  It came to him.  Excellent book as it removes the dour seriousness of the subject matter.

 

Another book, or rather series since it ended up as a trilogy, is Jane Roberts' The Education Of Oversoul Seven.  Extremely humourous while simultaneously exceedingly instructive.

I think i read "Illusions", not sure though, but surely i didn't know about "Messiah Handbook", just reading some quotes from internet.

I'll take note of the other suggestion of yours.

 

Btw, curious to hear what you think about these ruins, and other rather mysterious ruins around the world.

 

 

[Tippaporn]

9 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I think i read "Illusions", not sure though, but surely i didn't know about "Messiah Handbook", just reading some quotes from internet.

I'll take note of the other suggestion of yours.

 

Btw, curious to hear what you think about these ruins, and other rather mysterious ruins around the world.

 

 

As I said, Illusions can be had as a free PDF download.  Not so The Education Of Oversoul Seven trilogy.  But can be purchased for about $18 as a PDF or eBook download.  I love to read.

 

Not sure about the ruins pictured.  The image is too small.  I never got into any mysteries surrounding ruins or pyramids and such.  I've heard that there's a feature of one of the pyramids which has the exact calculation of the distance between the earth and sun down to a number of decimal places.  Or perhaps it was the speed of light.  I can't recall now.  Also, from the Oversoul books I mention it is revealed that they pyramids were built with the use of sound.  Intriguing.

 

I find it humourous that most every generation feels that they have an understanding of this world down pretty pat.  Maybe similar to the scientist I mentioned who claimed that science is at the point where all that is left is to cross some Tees and dot some Eyes.  All I can say is, my gawd!, how naive.  They are so totally clueless as to what's out there.

[sirineou]

10 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

No human can ever have the complete picture. There is so much information out there that no individual could ever acquire it all even in a century.

We all get by on what we can acquire, however much that may be.

When solving an algebraic expression graphically, the more points you plot the closer you come to the answer. So I guess it all depends  on whether one is satisfied with a vague idea or one desires HD. 

On the other hand Icarus flew too close to the sun ..... Certainly a tough decision. 

 

[couchpotato]

463 pages of mostly philosophical ramblings. 

Maybe just a 'yes or no' would suffice, to answer the original question.

[Tippaporn]

17 minutes ago, sirineou said:

When solving an algebraic expression graphically, the more points you plot the closer you come to the answer. So I guess it all depends  on whether one is satisfied with a vague idea or one desires HD. 

On the other hand Icarus flew too close to the sun ..... Certainly a tough decision. 

 

LOL.  Not sure Icarus flying too close to the sun is an apt analogy.  Peeking behind the veil of illusion is not quite that lethal.  Perhaps one might lose their mind but survival is all but guaranteed.

[Tippaporn]

7 minutes ago, couchpotato said:

463 pages of mostly philosophical ramblings. 

Maybe just a 'yes or no' would suffice, to answer the original question.

You left out the "maybe" option.

[sirineou]

10 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Seminars are only as good as the presenter. I've been to seminars where the supposedly expert, great mind was an absolute charlatan.

Sure and some are absolutely brilliant. as in everything in life  One considers the reputation of the source as an indication of its quality.

 

 

[sirineou]

11 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Furthermore, and please correct me if I'm wrong @sirineou, if the scientific method is NOT able to verify and validate all subjective experiences that make up belief systems, then we are left with 2 choices:

1) subjective experiences don't exist and can therefore not be measured by through the scientific method 

2) subjective experiences do exist, but can not be measured through the scientific method 

 

 

 

Just because something can not be validated through reason because of our limitations at the time it does not make it any more  correct, It simply remains in the realm of unproven theories of which there are many. 

 One need to alway understand that there always two parts of an equation. 

Subjective experiences do exist but their subjectivity exists both on the input  and output part of the equation, and as such until verified by others remains subjective. 

[Sunmaster]

32 minutes ago, couchpotato said:

463 pages of mostly philosophical ramblings. 

Maybe just a 'yes or no' would suffice, to answer the original question.

What? And miss out on all the fun? 5555

[Sunmaster]

Just now, sirineou said:

Just because something can not be validated through reason because of our limitations at the time it does not make it any more  correct, It simply remains in the realm of unproven theories of which there are many. 

 One need to alway understand that there always two parts of an equation. 

Subjective experiences do exist but their subjectivity exists both on the input  and output part of the equation, and as such until verified by others remains subjective. 

Ok, so you're admitting that subjective realities exist, but can not be measured. Exactly what I've been saying all along. Thank you. 
Does it make it more correct? Maybe, maybe not. Certainly it doesn't make it less correct too, don't you think?

What you say about input/output is not very clear. In fact, I find the whole thing smelling of desperation. ????

 

[sirineou]

11 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Erm... I think your mind is showing signs of fatigue. ????

It was YOU who said that the scientific method is the only way you can verify and validate belief systems, not me. But since belief systems are ALSO made up of those messy subjective experiences, I asked you how you would go on about it.

You say "easy peasy....the same method they use for anything else". Hmmm, I'm left to wonder why you or any other brilliant scientist haven't won the Nobel prize yet.

Actually no, I'm not wondering at all. ????

 

But just in case, if you do win the 1 million prize, don't forget the one who inspired you. ????

There might be fatigue involved but it is not on my part. I remain consistent. 

As I said in post #6942 , Subjective experiences until proven objectively remain Theories. 

I did say that the "scientific method is the only way to verify theories which is what belief systems are.   How did anything else I said contradicts that??? 

 

 

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, Sunmaster said:

Ok, so you're admitting that subjective realities exist, but can not be measured. Exactly what I've been saying all along. Thank you. 
Does it make it more correct? Maybe, maybe not. Certainly it doesn't make it less correct too, don't you think?

What you say about input/output is not very clear. In fact, I find the whole thing smelling of desperation. ????

 

Of course they do, This should be obvious so anyone.

It certainly smells as a sign of desperation as you try to defend the undefendable. You seem to think that your subjective  experiences are unique , I assure you they are not.  Everything that occurs in a man's mind  is subjective until verified by objective criteria. 

   

[Sunmaster]

3 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Of course they do, This should be obvious so anyone.

It certainly smells as a sign of desperation as you try to defend the undefendable. You seem to think that your subjective  experiences are unique , I assure you they are not.  Everything that occurs in a man's mind  is subjective until verified by objective criteria. 

   

Not unique at all. On the contrary, my whole point about subjective experiences and meditation, was to show that there are common experiences all meditators go through and there are rules, guidelines and teachings in place to help them progress and overcome the obstacles of their restless minds. 
So, if my subjective experience coincides with that of another meditators, of 100s, of 1000s...of millions of other practitioners, we can speak of repeatable experiences that are verifiable by other peers. Much like the scientific method, but without the graphs and Exel spreadsheets you hold so dear.
 

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Not unique at all. On the contrary, my whole point about subjective experiences and meditation, was to show that there are common experiences all meditators go through and there are rules, guidelines and teachings in place to help them progress and overcome the obstacles of their restless minds. 
So, if my subjective experience coincides with that of another meditators, of 100s, of 1000s...of millions of other practitioners, we can speak of repeatable experiences that are verifiable by other peers. Much like the scientific method, but without the graphs and Exel spreadsheets you hold so dear.
 

We are Going around in circles.

Your theory might be unique, to you or to a group of people. but subjective experiences are not , every personal experience is subject to subjective limitations,  until such time as  it is analysed under under objective criteria. 

 

[Sunmaster]

16 minutes ago, sirineou said:

We are Going around in circles.

Your theory might be unique, to you or to a group of people. but subjective experiences are not , every personal experience is subject to subjective limitations,  until such time as  it is analysed under under objective criteria. 

 

You yourself said it can't be analysed under objective criteria....so what do we do? Do we just ignore everything, hoping that one day science will catch up and finally confirm what the ancient teachings have been saying all along? What if it never will? 
Honestly, that's the most irrational thing I've ever heard. 

If you want to play the violin, you're not going to use a sledgehammer. If you want to break down a wall, you're not going to use a violin bow. 
In the same way, you will not use positive thinking to mend a broken bone and you can't use a scalpel to find consciousness in your brain.

But you're right, we are going in circles and to be honest, I'm tired of it all. I think I will take a break from the thread for a while. 
Have fun in the meantime. ????

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, Sunmaster said:

You yourself said it can't be analysed under objective criteria.

Where did I say it can't be analysed under objective criteria,. I thought I had made myself clear that objective analysis  was the only way to realise a subjective theory. 

[sirineou]

3 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Do we just ignore everything, hoping that one day science will catch up and finally confirm what the ancient teachings have been saying all along? What if it never will? 

Bo you don't you apply objective analysis and then you ignore it until such time as new information comes in

[mauGR1]

7 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

For those worried about their financial status, I would like to recommend a small book called "Happy pocket full of money". It has changed the way I looked at money and wealth by shifting my perception from a "lacking" status to a status of abundance. Change your perception and the outside will follow accordingly. In my case it worked very well. I started my own business while still employed and then became independent after a few years. 

Perhaps i should read that book lol

I have mixed feelings about money. to say it clearly i don't like the arrogance that comes with money.

Not long ago, i read a book about "Huna" teachings, where the author was explaining how to change your mind about money, and improve the flow, with simple and clever techniques.

Yet, all this in the end sounded to me like "adoring" money; i hope i'll never go there.

1 year ago i had a long chat with a lady who is a "guru" in some new age circles, and i asked her what she thinks about money; again, she didn't convince me about the "neutrality" of money.

Unfortunately money has become a god for most,it must have taken some effort in the last few 1000 years, to convince people to depend on money. but in the big picture, the culture of profit is pure poison for the planet and all of us.

Just saying

 

[Tippaporn]

Holiday today?  Where's the cookout?  Gee, I guess I wasn't invited.  

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Perhaps i should read that book lol

I have mixed feelings about money. to say it clearly i don't like the arrogance that comes with money.

Not long ago, i read a book about "Huna" teachings, where the author was explaining how to change your mind about money, and improve the flow, with simple and clever techniques.

Yet, all this in the end sounded to me like "adoring" money; i hope i'll never go there.

1 year ago i had a long chat with a lady who is a "guru" in some new age circles, and i asked her what she thinks about money; again, she didn't convince me about the "neutrality" of money.

Unfortunately money has become a god for most,it must have taken some effort in the last few 1000 years, to convince people to depend on money. but in the big picture, the culture of profit is pure poison for the planet and all of us.

Just saying

 

All my life I never cared about money, as long as I had enough. I worked to live , not lived to work.

Unfortunately, the bad choice of getting married reduced my savings to the point I can no longer do what I spent so many years planning for- live in LOS till I die.

If I could go back 20 years I'd be doing a bit more worshiping of the money god, and definitely not getting married. Us guys really are suckers when it comes to women.

[mauGR1]

10 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

All my life I never cared about money, as long as I had enough. I worked to live , not lived to work.

Unfortunately, the bad choice of getting married reduced my savings to the point I can no longer do what I spent so many years planning for- live in LOS till I die.

If I could go back 20 years I'd be doing a bit more worshiping of the money god, and definitely not getting married. Us guys really are suckers when it comes to women.

We cannot change our past.

I made bad choices too, but i have no regrets, i did what seemed to be right at the time.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

We cannot change our past.

I made bad choices too, but i have no regrets, i did what seemed to be right at the time.

I regret every day I'm not in LOS. I had it all, and I threw it away for a woman's smile and the promise of a happy life together. Of course she was a liar.

[mauGR1]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I regret every day I'm not in LOS. I had it all, and I threw it away for a woman's smile and the promise of a happy life together. Of course she was a liar.

Not everything is rosy in los, one can be as miserable here as in any other place.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, mauGR1 said:

Not everything is rosy in los, one can be as miserable here as in any other place.

 

Oh I'm aware of most of the drawbacks of LOS. I've had everything that could go wrong go wrong except ending up in court/ jail. One learns stuff after decades.

The biggest lesson I ignored was to not get married. I did everything right though, and lived together a year, which was perfect. Only thing I forgot was the family.

Yes, I had bad times before I met her. Have to kiss a lot of frogs to find the princess in Pattaya, but on the whole, I was never really miserable till I got married. When renting just move on if it doesn't work out. Really, my biggest regret of those happy days is that I just didn't have enough time in LOS to spend with all the lovely ladies I met, and had to make do with fewer than I'd have liked. I still dream about the ones that got away.

Anyway, however bad things may have got in LOS, they were better than where I am now. Sunsets are lovely, but one needs more than sunsets to have a happy life. I believe in God, but God doesn't give me cuddles in bed, and waking up alone is a sad thing indeed.

My last year I lived in an hotel in Chiang Mai. I didn't have female company as my marriage turned me off women, but I was content with my life, and that's as good as life gets.

Unfortunately I couldn't pay for insurance at 60,000 a year and increasing, as well as keep the 800,000 in the bank, so I had a holiday in the UK and went home when my visa extension expired. Now I exist and wait for the next stage of life, whenever that may be.

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I believe in God, but God doesn't give me cuddles in bed, and waking up alone is a sad thing indeed.

Obviously you haven't been married long enough.

Waking up alone is better than being under the same roof without any semblance of love, and perhaps pretending that everything is fine.

Try to make the best of what you have, probably there are billions in this world which are less fortunate than you.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Obviously you haven't been married long enough.

Waking up alone is better than being under the same roof without any semblance of love, and perhaps pretending that everything is fine.

Try to make the best of what you have, probably there are billions in this world which are less fortunate than you.

I was married long enough to realise I shouldn't have been. It's a con, IMO to part men from their money.

You obviously haven't been single long enough to know that a warm body is better than no body.

 

Yeah, billions that are worse off than me, but that's doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling.

The biggest killer is loneliness. It doesn't kill the body, but it kills the spirit. I wish I believed in religion, as that gives people comfort in times of adversity.

Anyway, I shouldn't have got so personal as I was about to write things that shouldn't be on a public forum, so I'm going to stop now before I say something I shouldn't.

There wasn't a sunset last evening, as cloudy, but clouds are as lovely as a sunset. When flying, I loved looking out at the clouds. Must be amazing being a fighter pilot, up there in the clouds, just you and a multi million dollar machine the taxpayer gave you. Awesome.