Do you believe in God and why

[Peter Denis]

18 minutes ago, covidiot said:

The Exorcist ... ha ha.

 

[mauGR1]

16 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I think that part of the family had treated it as a sort of parlor game to be brought out once every few months .. there was an old lady down the road who would come over  ..we weren't religious at all  - part of the family was into the Theosophical society. 

It wasn't treated too seriously - ghosts and spirits were in fashion in the mid seventies  around the time the Exorcist came out. It did work..that thing moved around the board fast spelling stuff out.. I don't think it was a prank..I think it's probably someone  just subconsciously pushing it.. 

Now I look at that stuff as old wives tales type stuff 

I also had a time,  when i was 15/16, when me and a small group of friends were playing with such things.

Then I heard from a schoolmate, her family had to move house because of ghost infestation. 

Since then, i didn't play those games anymore,  I'm not scared but I know things can go bad quite easily.

Definitely there are more things than we can see.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

 

I think you should be thanking God for making ignorance painless, or you'd be in big trouble. ????

It's interesting how many new posters don't comprehend what the OP is actually about ( it's not about religion per se ) and apparently don't read any pages that are not the last, then think they can troll to their heart's content.

I guess there must be a lot of bored people out there.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

“ that which is proposed with no evidence can be dismissed with no evidence “ C. Hitchens

Gods / Supernatural are easily disproved on Earth by science / no evidence but, because of the sheer size Universe cannot be absolutely disproved, except by asking “what are the odds” ? Has to be Millions to one , about the same perhaps as Narnia or Flying Spaghetti Monster existence....... so clearly Faith in Gods etc. is simply a Faith Over Facts choice to believe and promote ludicrous, dangerous & evil childish fantasy rubbish , which btw opposes all western Freedom/ Democracy- based values.

 

 

 

 

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

faraday: latest count is over four thousand documented “ gods” !

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

joinaman:no difference at all except in level of evil & violence

( e.g. Islam today, Christians before) 

all part of human collective psychosis (group insanity) suspending or defying rationality and freedom for themselves and others

many reasons: culture, safety, business, ego, tradition etc.

[CharlieH]

Numerous trolling posts and responses removed.

 

It has been stated many times in this topic, and needed once again it would seem. People are entitled to believe what they choose, you are free to discuss those beliefs, what you are not allowed to do is mock or ridicule those beliefs, or make comments of a personal nature.

 

Trolls will be dealt with harshly !

 

 

[mauGR1]

Well, my last post which was deleted was not a troll post.

When i was about 4, I was going to a pre-school run by catholic nuns, and quite suddenly i was so bored of the bigotry and excess of indoctrination,  that once at home,  I was swearing and screaming at God loudly and persistently , i  was so full of hate for anything religious that my mum started to worry. 

The problem was solved by the cutest and sweetest nun of the school, who came to visit me at home, and whispered some well chosen words to my ear ????

[Elad]

On 5/19/2021 at 8:29 PM, mauGR1 said:

..but, but, some believe that in a place which did not exist, some spark happened out of nothing to create millions of stars and countless forms of life... sorry, but I'd rather believe in water being turned into wine ????

 

It must be great to fill in all the unknowns of the universe with God and be totally satisfied with that answer.

Isaac Newton did it once and it back fired on him. Isaac Newton discovered the laws of motion (which started the Industrial revolution), the laws of Gravity, he also invented Integral Calculus, and he did all that before he turned 26 years old.

 

Using his own theories of motion and gravity he decided to calculate the forces on all the known celestial bodies in the solar system. He soon came to the conclusion that the Earth could not be in a stable orbit, because of the small perturbations from Jupiter etc.. he did the calculations over and over and in the end he gave up, closed his notebook and declared that god must intervene to keep Earth in its stable orbit. Being a religious man he was totally satisfied with that answer because he knew his theory was very precise (and they are we still use them today to land rovers on Mars etc).

 

Obviously we now know that all those perturbations he calculated all cancel each other out and thats why the Earth and all the other planets are in stable orbits. Had Isaac not been so religious then I think he would've worked it out. Using God to fill the gaps of the unknown universe is just being very, very lazy.  

[mauGR1]

3 hours ago, Elad said:

It must be great to fill in all the unknowns of the universe with God and be totally satisfied with that answer

If you're implying that I'm totally satisfied with that answer, you're totally wrong. 

Yet I see most people being satisfied with the newtonian theory of gravity and other 'scientific ' theories which, despite being laudable efforts to unveil the mysteries of the universe, are still far from being 'the truth'.

[bannork]

It's an interesting thread, partly because it can never end so long as people search for meaning to their lives in human terms. But once we're dead we've lost our human characteristics, nobody as ever come back from the dead to tell us what post death is like. How could 'they', beyond time and space?

Perhaps I need to explore meditation to get beyond the existence of the everyday human mind. Can a universal truth be experienced?

Monday morning musings.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, bannork said:

Can a universal truth be experienced?

I very much doubt that. If there are 8 billion humans on the planet that would be 8 billion versions of universal truth, IMO.

[Surelynot]

3 minutes ago, bannork said:

nobody as ever come back from the dead

Jesus, Lazarus, Tiger Woods.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, Elad said:

 

It must be great to fill in all the unknowns of the universe with God and be totally satisfied with that answer.

Isaac Newton did it once and it back fired on him. Isaac Newton discovered the laws of motion (which started the Industrial revolution), the laws of Gravity, he also invented Integral Calculus, and he did all that before he turned 26 years old.

 

Using his own theories of motion and gravity he decided to calculate the forces on all the known celestial bodies in the solar system. He soon came to the conclusion that the Earth could not be in a stable orbit, because of the small perturbations from Jupiter etc.. he did the calculations over and over and in the end he gave up, closed his notebook and declared that god must intervene to keep Earth in its stable orbit. Being a religious man he was totally satisfied with that answer because he knew his theory was very precise (and they are we still use them today to land rovers on Mars etc).

 

Obviously we now know that all those perturbations he calculated all cancel each other out and thats why the Earth and all the other planets are in stable orbits. Had Isaac not been so religious then I think he would've worked it out. Using God to fill the gaps of the unknown universe is just being very, very lazy.  

All of which IMO mean nothing to do with the existence of God, or not. Just because he gave up does not mean that the Creator didn't factor in planetary orbits when the framework for the universe was created. If God created the universe, God also created all the physical laws by which it operates.

[ravip]

On 5/21/2021 at 10:16 AM, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

faraday: latest count is over four thousand documented “ gods” !

I’ve heard of a figure like 33 million Gods... can't recollect made by whom. 

[mauGR1]

21 minutes ago, bannork said:

It's an interesting thread, partly because it can never end so long as people search for meaning to their lives in human terms. But once we're dead we've lost our human characteristics, nobody as ever come back from the dead to tell us what post death is like. How could 'they', beyond time and space?

Perhaps I need to explore meditation to get beyond the existence of the everyday human mind. Can a universal truth be experienced?

Monday morning musings.

Personally i "like to believe " that the physical body is just a vehicle, which is apt to experience a certain kind of reality.

When a physical body is worn out,  it ends, and, what remains, the soul and the spirit,  stay connected for a while .

Eventually the spirit finds a new body for a new experience. 

Of course one can say that the reality of this physical life is all that counts, and i will not disagree with that...thought is free.

[Surelynot]

2 minutes ago, ravip said:

I’ve heard of a figure like 33 million Gods... can't recollect made by whom. 

I think that is just in Hinduism........!!!!

[VincentRJ]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

If you're implying that I'm totally satisfied with that answer, you're totally wrong. 

Yet I see most people being satisfied with the newtonian theory of gravity and other 'scientific ' theories which, despite being laudable efforts to unveil the mysteries of the universe, are still far from being 'the truth'.

Isaac Newton's theory of gravity appeared, even to him, to have had a major flaw when applied to the universe at large. If all objects and stars in the entire universe are exerting a force of gravitational attraction on each other, then it logically follows that the universe should be in a state of collapse.

 

Newton did not believe the universe was in a state of collapse, but he had no valid scientific explanation to explain why it wasn't. However, he did have a 'religious' explanation.

 

When I was studying Newton's theories in High School, many years ago, I had no idea that Newton was a deeply religious man who believed in a Creator God who intervened in the processes of nature. When I discovered this, through the internet, many years later, I was very surprised, and wondered why this issue was never raised when I was in High School.

 

The following Wikipedia article provides details of Newton's religiosity.

 

"Newton saw God as the masterful creator whose existence could not be denied in the face of the grandeur of all creation.
In addition to stepping in to re-form the solar system, Newton invoked God's active intervention to prevent the stars falling in on each other, and perhaps in preventing the amount of motion in the universe from decaying due to viscosity and friction. In private correspondence Newton sometimes hinted that the force of Gravity was due to an immaterial influence:

 

"Tis inconceivable that inanimate brute matter should (without the mediation of something else which is not material) operate upon & affect other matter without mutual contact."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Isaac_Newton

 

As I understand, this concept of a static universe led to Einstein's greatest blunder. The equations in his first 'Theory of General Relativity' showed that the universe was not static. I can only presume that Einstein had accepted that the universe is static because of his belief in a type of God. Instead of declaring that his equations demonstrated that the universe is not static, but could be expanding, he introduced a 'cosmological constant' to counter those effects which his equations showed.

 

When Edwin Hubble later provided evidence that the universe is in fact expanding, by observing a 'redshift' in the light from distant stars, Einstein removed his 'cosmological constant'. He is claimed to have called that introduction of a 'cosmological constant' his biggest blunder, in conversations with other scientists, although there is some disagreement about this.

[Fex Bluse]

Surely if there was a God, all this death and destruction would not affect innocent people. There is no God, and the sooner we wake up from this ancient cartoonish nonsense, realize most people are inherently evil and selfish and protect ourselves accordingly, we will continue to suffer.

[Surelynot]

5 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

Einstein removed his 'cosmological constant'. He is claimed to have called that introduction of a 'cosmological constant' his biggest blunder, in conversations with other scientists

It was........almost unforgivable considering his previous exploits......introducing a factor to account for what was  thought to be a static universe without evidence.......very poor.

 

It always amazes me that 'intelligent' modern day scientists are religious (or rather should I say....believe in God).

[thaibeachlovers]

8 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

As I understand, this concept of a static universe led to Einstein's greatest blunder. The equations in his first 'Theory of General Relativity' showed that the universe was not static. I can only presume that Einstein had accepted that the universe is static because of his belief in a type of God. Instead of declaring that his equations demonstrated that the universe is not static, but could be expanding, he introduced a 'cosmological constant' to counter those effects which his equations showed.

Which does not prove that God does not exist. It only proves that Einstein allowed his own faith belief to influence him to disregard his own calculations. In other words, he might have tried to confine God to his idea of God, rather than accepting that God can do anything.

 

Any being that can create the universe would have no difficulty in making the universe expand, or contract, or whatever that being chose to make it do. The being that makes the rules dictates the rules.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

Surely if there was a God, all this death and destruction would not affect innocent people. There is no God, and the sooner we wake up from this ancient cartoonish nonsense, realize most people are inherently evil and selfish and protect ourselves accordingly, we will continue to suffer.

Humans have free will, and it would be a bit pointless if God stepped in everytime someone did something that hurt another to stop it.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

It always amazes me that 'intelligent' modern day scientists are religious (or rather should I say....believe in God).

You are free to believe whatever you wish. That is the point of free will.

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You are free to believe whatever you wish. That is the point of free will.

Perfectly true....and I remain free to be amazed........555

[CharlieH]

5 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Perfectly true....and I remain free to be amazed........555

As do I, that this is over 400 pages of pretty much the same merry-go-round ! ????

[bannork]

12 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

As do I, that this is over 400 pages of pretty much the same merry-go-round ! ????

Well Charlie, you'll have to prove the existence or non existence of God one way or another.  Nobody said a mod's job was easy!

[VincentRJ]

22 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Which does not prove that God does not exist.

True. But it does prove that the understanding of God, by two of the most intelligent scientists in history, was deeply flawed, resulting in incorrect assumptions about the state of the universe.

 

If such exceptionally intelligent individuals can be wrong about the activities of God, then how wrong can less intelligent people be? ????
 

[ravip]

55 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Personally i "like to believe " that the physical body is just a vehicle, which is apt to experience a certain kind of reality.

When a physical body is worn out,  it ends, and, what remains, the soul and the spirit,  stay connected for a while .

Eventually the spirit finds a new body for a new experience. 

Of course one can say that the reality of this physical life is all that counts, and i will not disagree with that...thought is free.

But why would an almighty creator make something to wear out?

If the body was eternal, the soul and spirit could have occupied that forever. 

Why weren't we created like Saints? No crime, no war,  no sickness... just eternal paradise?

This might have been argued many times, by millions of humans - but no credible answer has been found - after all, for anyone who created this entire Universe, this would have been peanuts! 

Why all this suffering?  What purpose does it make?

 

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, VincentRJ said:

True. But it does prove that the understanding of God, by two of the most intelligent scientists in history, was deeply flawed, resulting in incorrect assumptions about the state of the universe.

 

If such exceptionally intelligent individuals can be wrong about the activities of God, then how wrong can less intelligent people be? ????
 

 

IMO they made a mistake by assuming they knew what God is. No one on earth KNOWS what God is, given no one has come back from the other side and given us a report. Lazarus may have been resurrected, but I know of no report of what he said about it. The Christ told us, but few follow what he said, preferring to interpret his teachings to satisfy their own wants.

Exceptional intelligence does not always impart common sense, a truth I've discovered after living many years.

 

God is unknowable to humans, and that applies even to the exceptionally intelligent. Perhaps a drawback to being exceptionally intelligent is that one might consider that one might know a lot about things that one can not know much at all about.

It's called faith, because it requires a leap of faith to believe in God, despite lack of scientific evidence.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, ravip said:

But why would an almighty creator make something to wear out?

If the body was eternal, the soul and spirit could have occupied that forever. 

Why weren't we created like Saints? No crime, no war,  no sickness... just eternal paradise?

This might have been argued many times, by millions of humans - but no credible answer has been found - after all, for anyone who created this entire Universe, this would have been peanuts! 

Why all this suffering?  What purpose does it make?

 

IMO the reason we are on this planet ( and possibly we have been or will be on other planets in other lives ) is to learn.

If "we" lived in a perfect paradise we would have no reason to do anything. Suffering brings learning and a desire to end suffering. Humans have always been most inventive during wars.

The Buddha only strove for Nirvana because of the suffering he encountered outside the palace walls. Had he remained inside, he might have been content his entire life.