Do you believe in God and why

[mauGR1]

14 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I believe that God is outside time, and that when we return to God after our bodies die we will be part of God and also outside time.

I don't know,  but according to many respected masters who have been investigating the issue, several lives are needed to achieve freedom from the cycle of life and death. 

Apparently,  Buddha himself vowed to come back here periodically,  until the last sentient being is freed.

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

You don' think other animal species have a sense of "I" ?

Or plants do not have the same ?

That is so very self centered, and Arrogant

Kinda of like humans be all like "We are the Champions" of the world.

 

Instead of calling me arrogant, why don't you try to look and understand the living beings around you ?

That way, at least you won't have so much time to embarrass yourself with silly remarks ????

[thaibeachlovers]

13 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I don't know,  but according to many respected masters who have been investigating the issue, several lives are needed to achieve freedom from the cycle of life and death. 

Apparently,  Buddha himself vowed to come back here periodically,  until the last sentient being is freed.

No matter their dedication, unless they died and were resurrected with intact memories they don't KNOW what lies beyond death.

[canthai55]

17 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Instead of calling me arrogant, why don't you try to look and understand the living beings around you ?

That way, at least you won't have so much time to embarrass yourself with silly remarks ????

ar·ro·gant

/ˈerəɡənt/

adjective: arrogant

having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities.

 

I did NOT call you arrogant - I said in excluding animals and plants is arrogant..

It is the HEIGHT of Arrogance to not believe that they have both feelings and self awareness. So they know 'I'

 Humans - the only creatures with a sense of 'I' - to quote you - is Absurd

 

ab·surd

/əbˈsərd,əbˈzərd/

adjective: absurd; comparative adjective: absurder; superlative adjective: absurdest

1. wildly unreasonable, illogical, or inappropriate.

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

No matter their dedication, unless they died and were resurrected with intact memories they don't KNOW what lies beyond death.

Well, i tend to believe the different experiences told by some spiritual masters, although those experiences could be subjective. 

Imho, they have no reason to tell lies.

R. Steiner, who is considered a master by accredited Indian yogis, used to call the state of sleep as " little death ", so comparing the waking state to the sleep state is perhaps useful.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Well, i tend to believe the different experiences told by some spiritual masters, although those experiences could be subjective. 

Imho, they have no reason to tell lies.

R. Steiner, who is considered a master by accredited Indian yogis, used to call the state of sleep as " little death ", so comparing the waking state to the sleep state is perhaps useful.

We will have to agree to differ on that.

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

Humans - the only creatures with a sense of 'I' - to quote you - is Absurd

 

Angels have an individual consciousness too, oh, but you don't believe they exist.

Dogs, cats, the most evolved mammals, have a "collective I " and you can easily find out just observing the limited range of their possible behaviors. 

...pls stay assured that i don't want to convince you of anything, I'm just free to state my opinion as much as you ????

 

[canthai55]

3 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Angels have an individual consciousness too, oh, but you don't believe they exist.

Dogs, cats, the most evolved mammals, have a "collective I " and you can easily find out just observing the limited range of their possible behaviors. 

...pls stay assured that i don't want to convince you of anything, I'm just free to state my opinion as much as you ????

 

And octopus can solve problems  requiring abstract thought ...

And groupers recognize individual people even years later ...

And whales communicate around the world, between individuals ...

This is not collective - this is individual

I could go on and on -

 

[mauGR1]

9 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

And octopus can solve problems  requiring abstract thought ...

And groupers recognize individual people even years later ...

And whales communicate around the world, between individuals ...

This is not collective - this is individual

I could go on and on -

 

Perhaps better watching TV eh ????

[Sunmaster]

Maybe we are confusing having awareness with being aware of a separate identity ("I").

 

I think we can all agree that animals as well as plants possess a certain degree of awareness, which is necessary for survival. I also believe there is some sort of hierarchy in regards to the degree of awareness they possess. A worm has less awareness than a chicken, who has less awareness than a cat, who has less awareness than a gorilla. Higher primates, dolphins and whales often display behaviour that is similar to humans, suggesting that there might be something close to a defined self-identity. But can that be called "I"?

I think nobody here is denying that animals are aware and have access to some level of consciousness, but what is debatable is that they would therefore have a sense of "I" like we have. 
Personally, I think that living with the illusion to be a separate entity and identifying with this constructed "I" is unique to humans. 

[mauGR1]

10 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Personally, I think that living with the illusion to be a separate entity and identifying with this constructed "I" is unique to humans. 

I got insulted countless times on this thread, just for inviting folks to think about it, so it must be true.

It's difficult for me to say which mammals are higher on the hierarchy, but i would bet on elephants. 

[Skeptic7]

On 8/13/2021 at 10:37 AM, Sunmaster said:

I didn't mean about this video specifically, but the scientific community in general.

Found this article interesting, especially relating to your query above. It's not going to convince you of anything, nor is it intended to...but may help with the answer. Despite not having a scientific consensus, this is and has been the prevailing view(s) among most scientists. 

 

https://theconversation.com/is-it-time-to-give-up-on-consciousness-as-the-ghost-in-the-machine-160688

[Skeptic7]

@mauGR1 posed some questions to you a page or 2 back and am curiously and genuinely hoping for your answers, if you feel so inclined. 

1. Which now arises a further question. Do you dispute that mind/consciousness is a process of natural brain function? 

 

2. Since you assumed that non-believers have no purpose and proposed that question, I now feel inclined to ask you...do believers all have a purpose? If so...what is it? Is it the same purpose for all? I'm guessing surely not to that last one. 

[Kanada]

Below is the prayer….but in his wisdom he decided to infect millions the world over with Covid and millions more love him for it????

Thy will be done!

Edited August 15, 2021 by Kanada

[mauGR1]

1 hour ago, Skeptic7 said:

Found this article interesting, especially relating to your query above. It's not going to convince you of anything, nor is it intended to...but may help with the answer. Despite not having a scientific consensus, this is and has been the prevailing view(s) among most scientists. 

 

https://theconversation.com/is-it-time-to-give-up-on-consciousness-as-the-ghost-in-the-machine-160688

Of course i  don't agree,  but that's the crux of the matter. 

One can say the sun shines and the earth go round because of the brain, without fearing to debunked. 

If there was no brain to detect reality, reality would not exist. 

That's fair enough,  i think .

Yet, my safe bet is that some sort of reality would exist regardless of humans. 

Some go as far as saying it would be better ????

[Sunmaster]

3 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

Found this article interesting, especially relating to your query above. It's not going to convince you of anything, nor is it intended to...but may help with the answer. Despite not having a scientific consensus, this is and has been the prevailing view(s) among most scientists. 

 

https://theconversation.com/is-it-time-to-give-up-on-consciousness-as-the-ghost-in-the-machine-160688

While I don't agree with their view that consciousness is "epiphenomenal: secondary phenomena based on the machinations of the physical brain itself.", I of course agree that we should explore this side of the problem as well...in conjunction to the research done on states of consciousness I posted earlier.
Ultimately, it doesn't matter who's right. All that matters is the truth itself.

[Sunmaster]

Like him or not, what he says makes a LOT of sense.
 

 

[Skeptic7]

3 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Of course i  don't agree,  but that's the crux of the matter. 

One can say the sun shines and the earth go round because of the brain, without fearing to debunked. 

If there was no brain to detect reality, reality would not exist. 

That's fair enough,  i think .

Yet, my safe bet is that some sort of reality would exist regardless of humans. 

Some go as far as saying it would be better ????

OK you gave your take on this, which was a response to Sunmaster (and certainly open to anyone) and I agree with your post mostly...I think. 555 As mentioned to Sun, the article wasn't intended to persuade or convince, but rather possibly help with his question.

 

So would you now be willing to answer the questions a few posts above, thrice posed now and specifically directed to you? That would be helpful and much appreciated. (Just a few posts up)

[mauGR1]

54 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

So would you now be willing to answer the questions a few posts above, thrice posed now and specifically directed to you? That would be helpful and much appreciated. (Just a few posts up)

Surely I'm willing to answer those questions,  and I'm surprised I've missed them.

Pls, can you redirect me exactly to which post, or which questions i failed to answer  ?

[Skeptic7]

6 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Surely I'm willing to answer those questions,  and I'm surprised I've missed them.

Pls, can you redirect me exactly to which post, or which questions i failed to answer  ?

No prob. Figured you somehow missed them, which was shocking as you don't miss much! There used to be sequential Post Numbers, but they were removed quite some time ago. The questions are repeated just 7 posts before this one. It begins with @mauGR1

 

 

[mauGR1]

On 8/12/2021 at 3:57 PM, Skeptic7 said:

Sure, but just asking that question of purpose doesn't mean there is one...or any. No idea what's meant by 'as a unity'. Regardless, likely most people ponder that at some point. Some see no purpose, some "find" it, some make it, others need it, while still others are continually searching. 

 

I contend there is no inherent purpose and have little doubt. You disagree, though not 100%, but have many doubts. Since you assumed that non-believers have no purpose and proposed that question, I now feel inclined to ask you...do believers all have a purpose? If so...what is it? Is it the same purpose for all? I'm guessing surely not to that last query, which is why I said earlier that my answer of making (or finding) our own applies to non-believers as well as believers. 

Well, perhaps you mean these are the questions which i left unanswered. 

I cannot answer for all believers,  obviously. 

I would say that everyone,  believers,  non believers and doubters have multiple purposes, and priorities, so i guess we are somehow in agreement. 

Again, when i was talking about purpose, my doubt was referring to the purpose of intelligent design,  for those who believe in it.

It's surely of interest to discuss every individual's  purpose, but in this case I was talking about the God's purpose. 

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

No prob. Figured you somehow missed them, which was shocking as you don't miss much! There used to be sequential Post Numbers, but they were removed quite some time ago. The questions are repeated just 7 posts before this one. It begins with @mauGR1

 

 

555 sorry,  perhaps I'm confusing the posts, moreover it happens that, thinking about the highest principles, i confuse myself too ????

[Skeptic7]

8 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

Do you dispute that mind/consciousness is a process of natural brain function?

@mauGR1 still curious about the question inserted above, which remains unanswered directly. Indirectly I think I know what your answer is, but don't want to assume anything.

 

So do you dispute or agree that mind/consciousness originates from natural brain processes? 

[Sunmaster]

Finally finished.

I'm posting it here because it was inspired by the conversation about yoga, meditation and "mind clearing", which is the title of the drawing.

 

[Skeptic7]

35 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Finally finished

Beautiful. Is this your doing? Lovely either way. 

[mauGR1]

52 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

@mauGR1 still curious about the question inserted above, which remains unanswered directly. Indirectly I think I know what your answer is, but don't want to assume anything.

 

So do you dispute or agree that mind/consciousness originates from natural brain processes? 

Sure !

And you should know already. 

Thanks in advance for your umpteenth negative reaction ???? i said a thousand times that spiritual (consciousness) and material ( brain) co-exist, in different states of reality, or realms. 

To state that consciousness originated from the brain is as true as saying that brain originated from consciousness. 

[Skeptic7]

3 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Sure !

And you should know already. 

Thanks in advance for your umpteenth negative reaction ???? i said a thousand times that spiritual (consciousness) and material ( brain) co-exist, in different states of reality, or realms. 

To state that consciousness originated from the brain is as true as saying that brain originated from consciousness. 

Thanks for the answer. Happy to oblige! ????

[Sunmaster]

35 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

Beautiful. Is this your doing? Lovely either way. 

Yes. Sometimes I get a bit creative. Thanks.

[rwill]

On 4/14/2019 at 9:25 PM, ivor bigun said:

Do you really believe in him or any of the other Gods ?

I'm married.

[Skeptic7]

12 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Sure !

And you should know already. 

Thanks in advance for your umpteenth negative reaction ???? i said a thousand times that spiritual (consciousness) and material ( brain) co-exist, in different states of reality, or realms. 

To state that consciousness originated from the brain is as true as saying that brain originated from consciousness. 

I'll try to explain why you almost always get confused face. Starting with the obvious...your last statement (sentence) is preposterous. 

 

Now on to the obscure. Which brings another serious question. How can things "coexist" in different realities or realms? Even adding the words "states of" render coexisting impossible...does it not? Maybe they can, but an example would help. To be clear...looking for an explanation, not an argument.