Do you believe in God and why

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, ross163103 said:

The clue's in the number of years this thread has been going, and # pages it has, 4 years 575 pages and counting, basically, never ending and going nowhere. 

 

I know, I know, I don't have to read it--and I don't, I just popped in today to see how long it's gone.

Apparently those that just drop in to add a negative comment would not have a clue as to whether the thread has gone somewhere or not.

[save the frogs]

17 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If that's correct I must have been a real bad guy in my last life.

i thought about it a bit more and came to the following conclusion.

negative circumstances / bad luck / setbacks / misfortune are not necessarily bad karma.

they could also be 'soul growth' ie tough lessons to make you grow wiser, stronger ...

the entire jesus myth involves him taking a beating ... then he comes out the other side wiser, more enlightened.

 

and a personal anecdote. i should have died in a car accident. it's literally a miracle i survived.

you never know. maybe you too have been thwarted from a very negative outcome without your knowing.

like the people who cancelled going on the Titanic just before departure.

 

[Red Phoenix]

7 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

i thought about it a bit more and came to the following conclusion.

negative circumstances / bad luck / setbacks / misfortune are not necessarily bad karma.

Reminds me of this Sufi tale:

> There was once a farmer who owned a horse and had a son.

One day, his horse ran away. The neighbors came to express their concern: "Oh, that's too bad. How are you going to work the fields now?" The farmer replied: "Good thing, Bad thing, Who knows?"

In a few days, his horse came back and brought another horse with her. Now, the neighbors were glad: "Oh, how lucky! Now you can do twice as much work as before! "The farmer replied: "Good thing, Bad thing, Who knows?"

The next day, the farmer's son fell off the new horse and broke his leg. The neighbors were concerned again: "Now that he is incapacitated, he can't help you around, that's too bad". The farmer replied: "Good thing, Bad thing, Who knows?"

Soon, the news came that a war broke out, and all the young men were required to join the army. The villagers were sad because they knew that many of the young men will not come back. The farmer's son could not be drafted because of his broken leg. His neighbors were envious: "How lucky! You get to keep you only son". The farmer replied: Good thing, Bad thing, Who knows?".

[mauGR1]

30 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

Reminds me of this Sufi tale:

> There was once a farmer who owned a horse and had a son.

One day, his horse ran away. The neighbors came to express their concern: "Oh, that's too bad. How are you going to work the fields now?" The farmer replied: "Good thing, Bad thing, Who knows?"

In a few days, his horse came back and brought another horse with her. Now, the neighbors were glad: "Oh, how lucky! Now you can do twice as much work as before! "The farmer replied: "Good thing, Bad thing, Who knows?"

The next day, the farmer's son fell off the new horse and broke his leg. The neighbors were concerned again: "Now that he is incapacitated, he can't help you around, that's too bad". The farmer replied: "Good thing, Bad thing, Who knows?"

Soon, the news came that a war broke out, and all the young men were required to join the army. The villagers were sad because they knew that many of the young men will not come back. The farmer's son could not be drafted because of his broken leg. His neighbors were envious: "How lucky! You get to keep you only son". The farmer replied: Good thing, Bad thing, Who knows?".

That's some wisdom !

In fact, we could discuss karma for ages, and the mysterious feeling would remain.

When investigating karma though, one should not forget something called " collective karma", which is as important as the individual karma.

In other words, it's not "by chance" that one is born in some family, in some neighborhood, in some country, and is attracted to a certain kind of people .

 

 

 

[save the frogs]

so now there's a thread about fortune-tellers.

i don't feel like debating with folks there.

some are hucksters, but not all.

ability to glimpse future events shows there are unseen forces manipulating things and fate is at play. 

 

[save the frogs]

this thread made me think of this film.

haven't seen it yet.

it's by a Thai director.

https://mubi.com/films/uncle-boonmee-who-can-recall-his-past-lives

Dying from kidney failure, Uncle Boonmee spends his final days in the countryside, where he has visions of his past lives and is visited by different spirits and loved ones. 

[Red Phoenix]

1 minute ago, save the frogs said:

this thread made me think of this film.

haven't seen it yet.

it's by a Thai director.

https://mubi.com/films/uncle-boonmee-who-can-recall-his-past-lives

Dying from kidney failure, Uncle Boonmee spends his final days in the countryside, where he has visions of his past lives and is visited by different spirits and loved ones. 

Yes, it's a very nice and thought-provoking Thai movie. Recommended.

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, save the frogs said:

and a personal anecdote. i should have died in a car accident. it's literally a miracle i survived.

you never know. maybe you too have been thwarted from a very negative outcome without your knowing.

I've been saved from a likely death many times in my life, and I remember most of them. Also times like when a tree fell on me and should have broken my femur, but didn't.

The main time was when I had my prostatectomy just before it spread, after waiting a few years.

However, I don't recall that I changed my outlook on life because of those incidents, though I did try to avoid having trees fall on me. They didn't bring me to believe in God either- that was something unrelated to near death experiences.

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

That's some wisdom !

In fact, we could discuss karma for ages, and the mysterious feeling would remain.

When investigating karma though, one should not forget something called " collective karma", which is as important as the individual karma.

In other words, it's not "by chance" that one is born in some family, in some neighborhood, in some country, and is attracted to a certain kind of people .

 

 

 

If that is what caused me to be born to the parents I was born to, that would only confirm that I must of been a bad dude in a previous life.

[mauGR1]

19 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If that is what caused me to be born to the parents I was born to, that would only confirm that I must of been a bad dude in a previous life.

I don't think so, but I'm not going to speculate on unproven theories on reincarnation. 

If we accept the theory of the cycle of multiple reincarnations though, it's much better to focus on the positives.

After all, all the wisdom we have, comes from the transformation of our suffering. 

As a personal experience, i used to be very critical of my parents when i was young, but after many years, i realized that being a parent is perhaps the most difficult job on earth. 

[JensenZ]

On 4/21/2023 at 6:26 AM, save the frogs said:

i thought about it a bit more and came to the following conclusion.

negative circumstances / bad luck / setbacks / misfortune are not necessarily bad karma.

they could also be 'soul growth' ie tough lessons to make you grow wiser, stronger ...

the entire jesus myth involves him taking a beating ... then he comes out the other side wiser, more enlightened.

 

and a personal anecdote. i should have died in a car accident. it's literally a miracle i survived.

you never know. maybe you too have been thwarted from a very negative outcome without your knowing.

like the people who cancelled going on the Titanic just before departure.

 

I survived a bad motorcycle crash when I was 23... but it doesn't matter if I survived or not. Had I not survived, I would have been spared the pain of growing old. I don't see life as a gift, but a long struggle, so maybe it was a curse that I survived. The concept of karma is absurd. It's just a way of people trying to feel better when good or bad sh*t happens to them.

[JensenZ]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If that is what caused me to be born to the parents I was born to, that would only confirm that I must of been a bad dude in a previous life.

It's one of the great truths - it is imperative that you choose the right parents. I failed that important task LOL

[save the frogs]

1 hour ago, JensenZ said:

I survived a bad motorcycle crash when I was 23... but it doesn't matter if I survived or not. Had I not survived, I would have been spared the pain of growing old. I don't see life as a gift, but a long struggle, so maybe it was a curse that I survived. The concept of karma is absurd. It's just a way of people trying to feel better when good or bad sh*t happens to them.

so you're miserable?

did you spend most of your waking life making everyone else around you miserable?

i met a lot of people like that.

 

[JensenZ]

27 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

so you're miserable?

did you spend most of your waking life making everyone else around you miserable?

i met a lot of people like that.

 

You need to think a little deeper and not draw conclusions based on little info. I expected an answer something like yours.

 

I don't make other people miserable as I tend to be very reclusive. I keep my feelings to myself and outwardly appear quite content and friendly. I don't affect the lives of other people - ever, as there is no one around me to affect.

 

In reality you're probably as miserable deep down as anyone else - you're just prentending not to be as you don't think much about anything except on a superficial level.

 

I've met a lot of people like you.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 22, 2023 by JensenZ

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

In reality you're probably as miserable deep down as anyone else - you're just prentending not to be as you don't think much about anything except on a superficial level.

After hearing a zillion words trying to define life, the most positive and the most negative, I've come to the conclusion that Buddha is right in suggesting a "middle way".

It's ok to be negative, i guess, as it is being positive when things appear to be going well, but it's not a secret that having a positive attitude helps a lot.

Pls, don't take it as a criticism, as i am talking in general about what i see in myself and others. 

[JensenZ]

4 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

After hearing a zillion words trying to define life, the most positive and the most negative, I've come to the conclusion that Buddha is right in suggesting a "middle way".

It's ok to be negative, i guess, as it is being positive when things appear to be going well, but it's not a secret that having a positive attitude helps a lot.

Pls, don't take it as a criticism, as i am talking in general about what i see in myself and others. 

Not at all. I appreciate the communication of thoughts about life and reality in a respectful way. 

 

I didn't appreciate the last member's susgestion that because I might not be a happy camper, that I would be making other people around me miserable. In actual fact, when I do come into contact with other humans, I'm a very friendly person who goes out of his way to help others. I don't want to upset other people with my nihilistic, existential philosophies on life... so when I do meet other humans, I keep any conversation superficial.

 

 

[Sunmaster]

14 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

Not at all. I appreciate the communication of thoughts about life and reality in a respectful way. 

 

I didn't appreciate the last member's susgestion that because I might not be a happy camper, that I would be making other people around me miserable. In actual fact, when I do come into contact with other humans, I'm a very friendly person who goes out of his way to help others. I don't want to upset other people with my nihilistic, existential philosophies on life... so when I do meet other humans, I keep any conversation superficial.

 

 

Do you think it would be possible to find a way, a state of being, where these 2 extremes can be integrated in one authentic personality? From what you describe, it seems as you are putting on a mask of congeniality for the outside world, while there is a deep discrepancy to how you really feel.

[mauGR1]

14 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

so when I do meet other humans, I keep any conversation superficial.

Lol, i do exactly the opposite, and i can manage to upset almost everyone which i happen to talk to.

Like.. "nice weather today, and what do you think about Jesus Christ?"... i can assure it's a great way to deter any chance of making new friends ????

[JensenZ]

 

9 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Do you think it would be possible to find a way, a state of being, where these 2 extremes can be integrated in one authentic personality? From what you describe, it seems as you are putting on a mask of congeniality for the outside world, while there is a deep discrepancy to how you really feel.

No, it's not a mask of congeniality. I sincerely wish people around me to be happy and content. If I see a person in need - I help if I can. If they need food, I will try to feed them.

 

I really don't want to make other people miserable.

 

Edited April 22, 2023 by JensenZ

[Sunmaster]

12 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Lol, i do exactly the opposite, and i can manage to upset almost everyone which i happen to talk to.

Like.. "nice weather today, and what do you think about Jesus Christ?"... i can assure it's a great way to deter any chance of making new friends ????

I'm almost as bad as you. LOL
Incidentally, I just had another such experience. Farang husband of my wife's friend....we meet for the first time. I drive on the conversation, asking questions about all sorts of things, trying to find common ground, picking up on answers and trying to dig deeper from there. I'm genuinely interested in other people's experiences. But nothing much coming from the other side, not even one question asked. The final straw was when he took out his phone mid conversation and started answering a business email. 
That's when my eyes gloss over and I go into a stupor. Needless to say, we won't become friends anytime soon. 55

 

Edited April 22, 2023 by Sunmaster

[Sunmaster]

2 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

I forgot to mention in my last message

 

No, it's not a mask of congeniality. I sincerely wish people around me to be happy and content. If I see a person in need - I help if I can. If they need food, I will try to feed them.

 

I really don't want to make other people miserable.

 

I don't want other people to suffer through life like I do.

I understand and believe in your good intentions. Nevertheless, it appears there are 2 sides of you at work. Do you feel that the intimate part (the way you think in private) reduces the quality of your life or are you content with the way things are right now?
What would happen if you were to show your true self to others?

[JensenZ]

Just now, Sunmaster said:

I understand and believe in your good intentions. Nevertheless, it appears there are 2 sides of you at work. Do you feel that the intimate part (the way you think in private) reduces the quality of your life or are you content with the way things are right now?
What would happen if you were to show your true self to others?

My true self is content. I'm not depressed about life even though I accept my life as a meaningless existence that will soon end. I wouldn't be showing my true self to other humans as they wouldn't understand me. My mother passed away a few months ago, totally oblivious to how I tick. I didn't want her to stress out, so our conversation was always very superficial. One time I told her how I really feel about something and she ghosted me for 2 years LOL. My other family members wouldn't have a clue. I keep my distance. I'm comfortable being alone. I like to be alone.

 

As for "quality of life"? That's an interesting concept. What does it mean?

 

I exercise 6 days a week, eat healthy, don't drink, don't smoke or take any drugs (no medicine either) so I suppose the quality of my human body is reasonable for my age. I have no health insurance. I'm not afraid of death. I've studied the best ways to end my life when it becomes necessary - to the point of planning it. I'm not at all interested in fading away from cancer or some other disease.

 

Believe it or not, when you conquer the fear of death, life becomes a lot more relaxing.

[Sunmaster]

21 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

My true self is content. I'm not depressed about life even though I accept my life as a meaningless existence that will soon end. I wouldn't be showing my true self to other humans as they wouldn't understand me. My mother passed away a few months ago, totally oblivious to how I tick. I didn't want her to stress out, so our conversation was always very superficial. One time I told her how I really feel about something and she ghosted me for 2 years LOL. My other family members wouldn't have a clue. I keep my distance. I'm comfortable being alone. I like to be alone.

 

As for "quality of life"? That's an interesting concept. What does it mean?

 

I exercise 6 days a week, eat healthy, don't drink, don't smoke or take any drugs (no medicine either) so I suppose the quality of my human body is reasonable for my age. I have no health insurance. I'm not afraid of death. I've studied the best ways to end my life when it becomes necessary - to the point of planning it. I'm not at all interested in fading away from cancer or some other disease.

 

Believe it or not, when you conquer the fear of death, life becomes a lot more relaxing.

With quality of life, I don't necessarily mean the physical aspect, although that is closely connected to it.
I mean, does your way of thinking paint the world in a matte grey color, thus taking away the more vibrant aspects of life? Does it give you discomfort when you're alone with your thoughts? When did you start thinking this way? 

What interests me is the concept of "meaningless existence". Can you elaborate?

I like solitude a lot as well, but I also value being understood by others when I feel the need to share my experiences. Maybe you haven't found someone in the "real world" to share yours, but you're welcome to do so here if you're so inclined.

 

21 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

Believe it or not, when you conquer the fear of death, life becomes a lot more relaxing.

I certainly believe it. In fact, I think about death all the time. Not in a morbid way, but more with an excited anticipation....a bit like when you're a kid and your birthday is coming up soon.

Edited April 22, 2023 by Sunmaster

[JensenZ]

39 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

With quality of life, I don't necessarily mean the physical aspect, although that is closely connected to it.
I mean, does your way of thinking paint the world in a matte grey color, thus taking away the more vibrant aspects of life? Does it give you discomfort when you're alone with your thoughts? When did you start thinking this way?

I like solitude a lot as well, but I also value being understood by others when I feel the need to share my experiences. Maybe you haven't found someone in the "real world" to share yours, but you're welcome to do so here if you're so inclined.

 

I certainly believe it. In fact, I think about death all the time. Not in a morbid way, but more with an excited anticipation....a bit like when you're a kid and your birthday is coming up soon.

No, I don't suffer from mental anguish when I'm alone. I'm really good at avoiding negative thoughts, so I'm not depressed. Sure, I get short bouts of it from time to time, but I'm pretty good at overcoming it. My heavy exercise regime fixes that fast.

 

I'm never going to find anyone in the real world to discus my philosophies with, and it would probably be a depressing conversation at that... for them, not for me. The point is, I don't need company, so why would I look for it? I think the Internet and chat forums have changed the way we communicate.

 

To be honest (and a bit harsh, maybe), most people, if they stripped away their masks, would find a meaningless existence underneath. That's why people make families - search eagerly for friends - study religion and God - all to fill up their empty voids. They are trying to convince themselves that they matter and their lives have meaning.

 

Edited April 22, 2023 by JensenZ

[JensenZ]

Just now, JensenZ said:

When did you start thinking this way?

I forgot to answer this, and it's a good question. Probably around my 60th birthday it became clear that I can't afford to get old. With no family (I'm an anti-natalist too, of course), it's clear that old age (when I need help) is not a possibility. It is one of the negative sides to being reclusive without family.

[Sunmaster]

I don't think that it's wrong or negative to speak of a meaningless existence. There are plenty of "spiritual" people (I know at least one) that came to the same conclusion and came to terms with that. Personally, I'm not quite there yet...not even sure I want to go there.

However, I can see that there can be more than one interpretation of this idea. One of surrender and acceptance (like my friend) and one of hostility towards life which can lead to chronic depression.
I'm not trying to put you in one or the other category. Just trying to understand.

 

[mauGR1]

7 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

To be honest (and a bit harsh, maybe), most people, if they stripped away their masks, would find a meaningless existence underneath. That's why people make families - search eagerly for friends - study religion and God - all to fill up their empty voids. They are trying to convince themselves that they matter and their lives have meaning.

It's a fact that the meaning of life has not yet being officially discovered, yet, searching for a meaning is not necessarily worse than thinking that there's no meaning at all.

The simple fact of learning from my mistakes, has a lot of meaning to me, for example, although i can accept other opinions. 

[JensenZ]

2 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

I don't think that it's wrong or negative to speak of a meaningless existence. There are plenty of "spiritual" people (I know at least one) that came to the same conclusion and came to terms with that. Personally, I'm not quite there yet...not even sure I want to go there.

However, I can see that there can be more than one interpretation of this idea. One of surrender and acceptance (like my friend) and one of hostility towards life which can lead to chronic depression.
I'm not trying to put you in one or the other category. Just trying to understand.

 

I  thought I made it quite clear I'm not suffering from depression. I function well with no medication whatsoever... so "one of surrender and acceptance" is my category. 

 

What's your category? Where are you at?

[JensenZ]

3 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

It's a fact that the meaning of life has not yet being officially discovered, yet, searching for a meaning is not necessarily worse than thinking that there's no meaning at all.

The simple fact of learning from my mistakes, has a lot of meaning to me, for example, although i can accept other opinions. 

Whether you think your life has meaning or not will depend on many factors. If, for example, you had children, then your meaning is clear - to raise your children. You can give your life meaning. Religion gives meaning - that a God loves and cares for you and you will be rewarded with an afterlife. 

 

I grew up as a Christian - studied the Bible from cover to cover.

[scorecard]

No I don't believe in god.

 

Virgin birth?  Not possible.

Magic? No, because magic can be explained rationally.

Rise from the dead after three days? Not possible.

 

After 17 thousand replies still not convinced.