Do you believe in God and why

[Tippaporn]

7 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

yeah, we're conspiring behind your back to not let you get too popular.

 

You're not just interested in saving the frogs, Frogs.  You're interested in saving the world, too.  Preventing me from becoming popular and "putting out garbage information to confuse people."  

 

Sorry, Frogs!  You set the shot up for me to take.  I couldn't resist scoring a goal.  <the crowd cheers> 

[Tippaporn]

9 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

16 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

 

All that we do in life is trying to overcome suffering and to attain fulfillment.  Lasting peace, happiness, security.  The way to do that is to realize who you are.  That's the big claim.

 

It's a perspective for sure.  But it's not a complete explanation of what we're doing here in this world and our reason for coming by any means.  No doubt we all try to avoid suffering.  That is true.  And yes, we all try to fulfill ourselves.  That is true as well.

 

But as I've asked before, to which you've yet to answer, who creates the suffering?  Further questions would be:  What is the purpose of suffering?  Why does suffering exist?  How is suffering created?  How is suffering alleviated?  Etc.

 

The same goes for 'seeking fulfillment'.  What is meant by fulfillment?  What avenues exist for fulfillment?  Are there various ways of fulfillment?  Is there only one 'ultimate' fulfillment?  Etc.

 

Sorry to ask all of these questions but they are the questions which naturally beg from Swami Sarvapriyananda's statements.  One can disregard the questions and simply accept Swami Sarvapriyananda's claims but that is not my style.  I question and I question everything.

 

 

Now I wasn't born yesterday, Sunmaster.    The concept of overcoming suffering and attaining fulfillment is a tenet of many Hindu schools of thought which I've been aware of for decades.  Seth discusses this as well.  I didn't come across it for the first time by skimming a few videos.  Rather than chide me for my poor understanding you would do well to explain it in detail and in full.  Answering some of my questions above would be a good start.  But you must admit that the single statement, "All that we do in life is trying to overcome suffering and to attain fulfillment," is not ambiguous.  It's quite clear in it's meaning.  The conclusion drawn that "that's it" is only a logical conclusion that must follow the logic of the statement.  No other explanation for 'why' is given, after all.  Nor is there any mention of anything more to life.

 

 

Two world views colliding is like two worlds colliding.  Lots of explosions.  Perhaps rather than two worlds colliding violently we may come to see two worlds merging. 

I hope you don't expect me to answer all those questions. 😅

 

Why did you write that?  I can think of several possible ideas behind it.  The one that strikes me as most plausible is that you don't have any answers.  And so to not have to admit it then the best response is to protest about the sheer number of questions and use the unreasonable 'burden' of that as the reason for then refusing to answer any of them.  Another possible explanation is that you're tired of my endless questions. 

[Tippaporn]

All that we do in life is trying to overcome suffering and to attain fulfillment.

 

Who creates the suffering?

 

I've got an answer for that one.  You do.  The suffering is a result of adopted poor ideas believed to be true which "just ain't so" and those ideas then manifest as they must in your experience.

 

How is suffering alleviated?

 

I've got an answer for that one, too!  Change the ideas which produce suffering to ideas which produce joy.  No need to hide behind the skirt of "you are that" and have your higher self remove the suffering for you. 

 

[Sunmaster just received a broadside hit in our game of "Battleships."  He's taking on water, folks!]

[Sunmaster]

9 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

 

Why did you write that?  I can think of several possible ideas behind it.  The one that strikes me as most plausible is that you don't have any answers.  And so to not have to admit it then the best response is to protest about the sheer number of questions and use the unreasonable 'burden' of that as the reason for then refusing to answer any of them.  Another possible explanation is that you're tired of my endless questions. 

I believe I answered this in second to last post. 
"You want me to sit around the kitchen table, manuals wide open, and discuss the differences of our manuals. Sorry, but I rather take Basil for a spin and drive into the sunset. "
Like I said, I'm not qualified to be Advaita's advocate, nor would I want to. This is not about the maps we use, but how we use the maps we use. Being so adamant (and a bit pedantic ) about the contents of the maps just shows the degree of attachment to it. 

I used to be just the same, I know the thought processes that go with that behaviour. You can easily scroll back to the beginning of this thread and see how fierce I was in defending my map, listing sources, quotes, trying to make others "see the light" in a number of different ways.

The truth is, none of that matters. 

All that matters is your personal relationship to AllThatIs. 
Not the map, but the territory matters.
Not the engine manual matters, but driving the car.
 

The more time you keep studying your manual, the less time you have driving that nice car that sits in your garage, covered by a 2" layer of dust. 



 

[Sunmaster]

19 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Sunmaster just received a broadside hit in our game of "Battleships."  He's taking on water, folks!]

Meanwhile Sunmaster...

[Tippaporn]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

Meanwhile Sunmaster...

 

A couple of things . . .

 

One is an obvious contradiction to something you said in your earlier post:

 

". . . and drive into the sunset."

 

The sunset is behind you, pal!! 

 

The other is that you are either high or you're a road hog.  You're driving down the center of the road.  In a no passing zone no less. 

 

I opt for being high since a) your going in the wrong direction, b) you're hogging the road, and c) the look on your face only comes from smoking a lot of weed. 

 

I'd keep my eyes on the road if I were you before you get front ended by the Mack truck comin' 'round the curve.  At least you wouldn't know what hit ya. 

 

Edited January 30 by Tippaporn

[Sunmaster]

7 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

 

A couple of things . . .

 

One is an obvious contradiction to something you said in your earlier post:

 

". . . and drive into the sunset."

 

The sunset is behind you, pal!! 

 

The other is that you are either high or you're a road hog.  You're driving down the center of the road.  In a no passing zone no less. 

 

I opt for being high since a) your going in the wrong direction, b) you're hogging the road, and c) the look on your face only comes from smoking a lot of weed. 

 

I'd keep my eyes on the road if I were you before you get front ended by the Mack truck comin' 'round the curve.  At least you wouldn't know what hit ya. 

 

Mate, the contradiction is easily explained. I've already been to the sunset. This was me coming back to tell you about it. 
As for the weed, well....  Just celebrating the gifts of mother nature.

 

[Tippaporn]

Has anyone run across stereograms?  Stereograms are images that seem to be random patterns that don't appear to be anything more.  Until one refocuses their eyes and a picture pops out.  There are also animated stereograms.  There's one of those in the link below of a 2014 music video by a band called Young Rival for their song Black Is Good.  It takes a bit of effort to refocus ones eyes but eventually you'll see the images.

 

What I found interesting about stereograms is that they are akin to refocusing ones consciousness.  Rather than the change in eye focus revealing the image of a picture or video images a change in the focus of ones consciousness reveals different aspects of reality.  Some people have trouble getting the hang of refocusing the eyes to see the actual image of a stereogram.  Ditto for refocusing ones consciousness.

 

https://ironicsans.substack.com/p/24-adventures-in-stereograms

 

Tips and tricks to be able to view a stereogram . . .

 

https://www.math.brown.edu/tbanchof/Yale/project14/stviewing.html

 

The trick of refocusing the eyes . . .

 

 

An example stereogram . . .

 

 

An animated stereogram . . . (not a bad song, either )  At times I can capture some of the images but I can't yet maintain the necessary focus.

 

 

[save the frogs]

21 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

 

You're not just interested in saving the frogs, Frogs.  You're interested in saving the world, too.  Preventing me from becoming popular and "putting out garbage information to confuse people."  

 

Sorry, Frogs!  You set the shot up for me to take.  I couldn't resist scoring a goal.  <the crowd cheers> 

 

I never accused YOU of deliberately putting out garbage information.

Your posts are too long. I don't have time to read them.

And since you're a Jethro Tull and Nick Cave fan, I will refrain from insulting you for 72 hours. 

 

[save the frogs]

44 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

At times I can capture some of the images but I can't yet maintain the necessary focus.

 

My brain must be deficient somehow. I can't capture anything but fuzziness. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/29/2024 at 9:32 PM, Tippaporn said:

One thing we can be certain about is that growth is endless.  A cessation of growth inevitably leads to stagnation.  At that point there can only be an eternity of endless repetition of what is.  It would be impossible for anything new to be created. 

If one believes in God the creator, as I do, God knows everything, ergo no growth once we are reunited with God after earthly death of the body.

BUT, why would we need to grow? I doubt God functions mentally as we do, so IMO the question is pointless.

As to whether our soul continues as an individual in the greater collective or not, I know not, but I expect to be finding out in a few years or less. It'll be a bit embarrassing if we do continue as individuals when everyone I knew here knows everything about me ( and vica versa ).

[thaibeachlovers]

40 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

 

My brain must be deficient somehow. I can't capture anything but fuzziness. 

Hit your head with a brick and you won't be worrying about the fuzziness. Works every time.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

Has anyone run across stereograms?  Stereograms are images that seem to be random patterns that don't appear to be anything more.  Until one refocuses their eyes and a picture pops out.  There are also animated stereograms.  There's one of those in the link below of a 2014 music video by a band called Young Rival for their song Black Is Good.  It takes a bit of effort to refocus ones eyes but eventually you'll see the images.

 

What I found interesting about stereograms is that they are akin to refocusing ones consciousness.  Rather than the change in eye focus revealing the image of a picture or video images a change in the focus of ones consciousness reveals different aspects of reality.  Some people have trouble getting the hang of refocusing the eyes to see the actual image of a stereogram.  Ditto for refocusing ones consciousness.

 

https://ironicsans.substack.com/p/24-adventures-in-stereograms

 

Tips and tricks to be able to view a stereogram . . .

 

https://www.math.brown.edu/tbanchof/Yale/project14/stviewing.html

 

The trick of refocusing the eyes . . .

 

 

An example stereogram . . .

 

 

An animated stereogram . . . (not a bad song, either )  At times I can capture some of the images but I can't yet maintain the necessary focus.

 

 

I love watching the picture emerge. I have seen many before but not the fish one.

[save the frogs]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Hit your head with a brick and you won't be worrying about the fuzziness. Works every time.

 

What are you doing here?

I thought you quit the forum?

 

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

 

Is that a picture of an aged Z Z Top guy remembering the good times?

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, save the frogs said:

 

What are you doing here?

I thought you quit the forum?

 

That was waaaaaaay back. I left and came back.

 

Considering I've been posting on this thread quite a bit recently you must be confusing me with someone else.

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

All that we do in life is trying to overcome suffering and to attain fulfillment.

 

Who creates the suffering?

 

I've got an answer for that one.  You do.  The suffering is a result of adopted poor ideas believed to be true which "just ain't so" and those ideas then manifest as they must in your experience.

 

How is suffering alleviated?

 

I've got an answer for that one, too!  Change the ideas which produce suffering to ideas which produce joy.  No need to hide behind the skirt of "you are that" and have your higher self remove the suffering for you. 

 

[Sunmaster just received a broadside hit in our game of "Battleships."  He's taking on water, folks!]

I call BS on the idea that we make our own existence. If it were true I'd be typing in LOS, not in the <deleted> place I am.

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

 

Looks to be a 12-string guitar.  Music is never spam. 

 

I think it's more like a middle east/ Asian instrument. The bit with the tuning keys is different, the fret board is too wide and his right hand doesn't look like it's playing a guitar.

[Sunmaster]

So, as I was meditating this morning, a story popped up in my mind. It relates to the discussion about manuals. 
I think it would make for another nice children's book.

There was a bright little boy called Timmy. Timmy loved looking at the night sky with all the shiny stars, the moon and constellations. 

 

He vowed to learn more about them, so he started to get a big book about astronomy. He learned all the names of the constellations, he learned about the planets and their trajectories, he learned about the speed of light and a great number of details.

 

 

In the course of many years, he continued studying, collecting more and more books. He couldn't be without them and carried them around wherever he went. After all, they were so important to him and his thirst for knowledge.

 

But as he got older, the weight of those books on his back started to take its toll. His back became curved and he realized he was no longer looking at the stars, but he was now only looking at the ground before him and his own feet. 

 

He realized that in order to see the stars again, he would have to drop the heavy bundle of books from his back. So he did and as soon as he did, his back started to straighten up again, allowing him to gaze at the night sky again. Not only that. He now notices a staircase he never noticed before.

 

 

It's a staircase that leads up to the stars. He starts walking and after a while he turns around and looks down. There on the ground he sees the bundle of books he had been carrying his whole life. "If I had continued carrying those around with me, I would have never discovered this staircase!".

Timmy had to leave them behind to take on this new journey to the stars. He no longer needed them, because now he was among the stars, he was so close that could touch them.

 

 

And so it goes. We bog ourselves down with all this intellectual knowledge, but like everything else, too much of a good thing becomes a bad thing. There comes a time when you realize that you don't need all that anymore, that holding on to it stops you from growing. You realize that you don't own this knowledge, but the knowledge started owning you. 
And so you see a crossroad before you: either hold on to your attachment and become stagnant or let go and grow. Deep down you know which way is the right one. 

 

Edited January 31 by Sunmaster

[Fat is a type of crazy]

Nice story and pictures. But don't give up on the real world Timmy... removing the weight of reality may feel good and the elation of putting reality to one side for a while might make you  see things like a staircase but stay focused Timmy on what's real ..if the staircase is real then it is a fact you can add to the other facts.  Your attitude to reality and facts may be too serious and make you heavy but reality is all we have.

 

On the topic of stereograms that it is a good analogy ..stay focused and sensible and you see what's there .. squint and distort your outlook and you start to see things differently but it's of no use in the real world and makes you tired and confused. 

There.  

 

 

[Sunmaster]

27 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Nice story and pictures. But don't give up on the real world Timmy... removing the weight of reality may feel good and the elation of putting reality to one side for a while might make you  see things like a staircase but stay focused Timmy on what's real ..if the staircase is real then it is a fact you can add to the other facts.  Your attitude to reality and facts may be too serious and make you heavy but reality is all we have.

The books don't symbolize reality, but intellectual knowledge. Everything is real in Timmy's world, including the staircase and the stars. The view from up the staircase gives Timmy a much broader perspective and so he can see reality from a wider, more inclusive viewpoint.

Edited January 31 by Sunmaster

[Tippaporn]

2 hours ago, save the frogs said:

And since you're a Jethro Tull and Nick Cave fan, I will refrain from insulting you for 72 hours.

 

That deserves a compliment for being a good sport. 

[Tippaporn]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Is that a picture of an aged Z Z Top guy remembering the good times?

 

No.  That's Sunmaster's depiction of me. 

[Tippaporn]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I call BS on the idea that we make our own existence. If it were true I'd be typing in LOS, not in the <deleted> place I am.

 

I see.  Creating ones own experience is acceptable only if all we created was only what we wanted in life.  The 'sh!t happens' stuff is only and always someone else's fault.  And that's the only reason why the idea is rejected.  Because people aren't willing to blame themselves for their own miseries.  They eagerly take credit, though, for all of the good they create and proudly beam, "See, I created that!!" 

[Tippaporn]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I think it's more like a middle east/ Asian instrument. The bit with the tuning keys is different, the fret board is too wide and his right hand doesn't look like it's playing a guitar.

 

We never did get a full view of the instrument.  It'll just be another mystery of life for us.  Add it to the long list. 

[Tippaporn]

43 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

So, as I was meditating this morning, a story popped up in my mind. It relates to the discussion about manuals. 
I think it would make for another nice children's book.

There was a bright little boy called Timmy. Timmy loved looking at the night sky with all the shiny stars, the moon and constellations. 

 

He vowed to learn more about them, so he started to get a big book about astronomy. He learned all the names of the constellations, he learned about the planets and their trajectories, he learned about the speed of light and a great number of details.

 

 

In the course of many years, he continued studying, collecting more and more books. He couldn't be without them and carried them around wherever he went. After all, they were so important to him and his thirst for knowledge.

 

But as he got older, the weight of those books on his back started to take its toll. His back became curved and he realized he was no longer looking at the stars, but he was now only looking at the ground before him and his own feet. 

 

He realized that in order to see the stars again, he would have to drop the heavy bundle of books from his back. So he did and as soon as he did, his back started to straighten up again, allowing him to gaze at the night sky again. Not only that. He now notices a staircase he never noticed before.

 

 

It's a staircase that leads up to the stars. He starts walking and after a while he turns around and looks down. There on the ground he sees the bundle of books he had been carrying his whole life. "If I had continued carrying those around with me, I would have never discovered this staircase!".

Timmy had to leave them behind to take on this new journey to the stars. He no longer needed them, because now he was among the stars, he was so close that could touch them.

 

 

And so it goes. We bog ourselves down with all this intellectual knowledge, but like everything else, too much of a good thing becomes a bad thing. There comes a time when you realize that you don't need all that anymore, that holding on to it stops you from growing. You realize that you don't own this knowledge, but the knowledge started owning you. 
And so you see a crossroad before you: either hold on to your attachment and become stagnant or let go and grow. Deep down you know which way is the right one. 

 

 

Since I was the inspiration for your new children's book I expect royalties.  At the least a dedication.  To Tippers.  I prefer the dedication to be done in ornate, flowing script with script line vectors filling the entire dedication page, swirling around my etched profiled image contained in an oval.  That's not asking much, is it?  Much easier, I would think, than answering some of my questions.  

[Sunmaster]

1 minute ago, Tippaporn said:

 

Since I was the inspiration for your new children's book I expect royalties.  At the least a dedication.  To Tippers.  I prefer the dedication to be done in ornate, flowing script with script line vectors filling the entire dedication page, swirling around my etched profiled image contained in an oval.  That's not asking much, is it?  Much easier, I would think, than answering some of my questions.  

No problem. I will also erect a statue in your honor....and name a library after you. "The Grand Tippa Library of Endless Secondhand Knowledge". 😁

 

 

4 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Much easier, I would think, than answering some of my questions.  

I'm very surprised you still have questions. I thought Seth had given you all the answers already....  

-Hit and sink.- 

[Sunmaster]

11 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

 

Since I was the inspiration for your new children's book I expect royalties.  At the least a dedication.  To Tippers.  I prefer the dedication to be done in ornate, flowing script with script line vectors filling the entire dedication page, swirling around my etched profiled image contained in an oval.  That's not asking much, is it?  Much easier, I would think, than answering some of my questions.  

Actually, I will rename the little boy "Tippa" in your honor. 

 

[Tippaporn]

15 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Actually, I will rename the little boy "Tippa" in your honor. 

 

Tippers is preferred.  I blame RP for the Tippa moniker that others have picked up on. 

[Tippaporn]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

So, as I was meditating this morning, a story popped up in my mind. It relates to the discussion about manuals. 
I think it would make for another nice children's book.

There was a bright little boy called Tippers. Tippers loved looking at the night sky with all the shiny stars, the moon and constellations.

 

He vowed to learn more about them, so he started to get a big book about astronomy. He learned all the names of the constellations, he learned about the planets and their trajectories, he learned about the speed of light and a great number of details.

 

In the course of many years, he continued studying, collecting more and more books. He couldn't be without them and carried them around wherever he went. After all, they were so important to him and his thirst for knowledge.

 

But as he got older, the weight of those books on his back started to take its toll. His back became curved and he realized he was no longer looking at the stars, but he was now only looking at the ground before him and his own feet.

He realized that in order to see the stars again, he would have to drop the heavy bundle of books from his back. So he did and as soon as he did, his back started to straighten up again, allowing him to gaze at the night sky again. Not only that. He now notices a staircase he never noticed before.

 

It's a staircase that leads up to the stars. He starts walking and after a while he turns around and looks down. There on the ground he sees the bundle of books he had been carrying his whole life. "If I had continued carrying those around with me, I would have never discovered this staircase!".

Tippers had to leave them behind to take on this new journey to the stars. He no longer needed them, because now he was among the stars, he was so close that could touch them.

 

And so it goes. We bog ourselves down with all this intellectual knowledge, but like everything else, too much of a good thing becomes a bad thing. There comes a time when you realize that you don't need all that anymore, that holding on to it stops you from growing. You realize that you don't own this knowledge, but the knowledge started owning you. 
And so you see a crossroad before you: either hold on to your attachment and become stagnant or let go and grow. And then you realise, too, that there's nothing left to talk about.

 

 

I made the necessary edits to your first rough draft.  Including the moral of the story.  Just a slight edit but I think you'd agree it's an improvement.