Do you believe in God and why

[Sunmaster]

12 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

 

It's a looooong way to the top, though.  May as well read something to kill the time. 

Is Tipperary a sort of paradise in Tippers' world? It's a long way too...
 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/31/2024 at 3:11 PM, Sunmaster said:

The books don't symbolize reality, but intellectual knowledge. Everything is real in Timmy's world, including the staircase and the stars. The view from up the staircase gives Timmy a much broader perspective and so he can see reality from a wider, more inclusive viewpoint.

I liked the story, but alas, real life isn't so easy. If I could give up my baggage the first thing I'd give up would be this forum ( except for this thread ), as it keeps me head down looking at the dirt. That's the problem with addictions though.

 

The story reminded me of a nice yuri anime I watched a while ago, so two pluses.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/31/2024 at 10:29 PM, Tippaporn said:

My problem is that Fry has fame and I have none.  So, since being famous makes one wiser (don't ask me how that works) then everyone harkens to every word issuing from the mouths of the famous. 

Apparently all you have to do to have the adulation of the masses and to get politicians hanging on every word one utters is to be born blond and pretty with a good singing voice. That's the problem with being born with a penis but without riches- no one gives a toss what we say.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 1/31/2024 at 6:22 PM, Tippaporn said:

 

Now pay attention, Sunmaster.  I'll get him to buy.  Now just sit back and watch a master salesman at work.

 

Well, now Purdey.  You see, the Christian God comes with a lot of bennies.  Onesies, twosies, threesies . . . what's your preference?  If more He's got 'em.  Imagine yourself laying on a cloud with these beauties!  For all of eternity.  One-time payment of your soul, is all.  Along with a sizeable up front cash payment.  Bitcoin accepted.  1Lbcfr7sAHTD9CgdQo3HTMTkV8LK4ZnX71  What other God is gonna give you a better deal?  Go ahead and take your time if you need to meditate on it.  This one-time offer is valid only until Feb. 05, so act now.

 

(I think I hooked him, Sunmaster.  His eyes are all lit up.  )

 

 

 

Dedit

Sorry, but I'm not taking that bait.

The first one looks like a katoey

The blond likewise

The black haired one has tats

The last 3 look so far up themselves that it's a wonder they can see sunshine.

 

I had more than 5 myself ( I'm not posting pictures of real people ), and most of them looked more pleasant than that lot.

Were they heavenly? Not telling.

 

 

 

Edited February 1 by thaibeachlovers

[Red Phoenix]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I liked the story, but alas, real life isn't so easy. If I could give up my baggage the first thing I'd give up would be this forum ( except for this thread ), as it keeps me head down looking at the dirt. That's the problem with addictions though.

 

The story reminded me of a nice yuri anime I watched a while ago, so two pluses.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

While I can agree with that, I've no personal problem living in the gutter along with most of humanity, most of the time.

 

[Sunmaster]

10 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I've no personal problem living in the gutter along with most of humanity

Sorry, but this doesn't make any sense to me.
WHY?!?

[Red Phoenix]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Apparently all you have to do to have the adulation of the masses and to get politicians hanging on every word one utters is to be born blond and pretty with a good singing voice. That's the problem with being born with a penis but without riches- no one gives a toss what we say.

The message and the messenger...

But the empty talks of the blonde pretties are immediately forgotten, as it is only package and no substance. 

And then you have the messengers where it almost doesn't matter what they say, but where their BEING shines through in everything they DO and say.

I recently came across this picture of Timothy LEARY.  What a beautiful and powerful human being he was (just look at his eyes, to feel and touch his soul).  And the message he spread is still resonating almost 30 years after his demise.

Here an excerpt of one of his books, which touches me deeply. 

= = =

Admit it. You aren’t like them. You’re not even close. You may occasionally dress yourself up as one of them, watch the same mindless television shows as they do, maybe even eat the same fast food sometimes. But it seems that the more you try to fit in, the more you feel like an outsider, watching the “normal people” as they go about their automatic existences. For every time you say club passwords like “Have a nice day” and “Weather’s awful today, eh?”, you yearn inside to say forbidden things like “Tell me something that makes you cry” or “What do you think deja vu is for?”
Face it, you even want to talk to that girl in the elevator. But what if that girl in the elevator (and the balding man who walks past your cubicle at work) are thinking the same thing? Who knows what you might learn from taking a chance on conversation with a stranger? Everyone carries a piece of the puzzle. Nobody comes into your life by mere coincidence. Trust your instincts. Do the unexpected. Find the others.
~Timothy Leary

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

9 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Sorry, but this doesn't make any sense to me.
WHY?!?

It's not an actual gutter ( just a figure of speech ), and it's enjoyable. I liked Pattaya, which could be regarded as a gutter city, I liked the bar girls etc. It's too lonely up there in the stratosphere.

[thaibeachlovers]

25 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

The message and the messenger...

But the empty talks of the blonde pretties are immediately forgotten, as it is only package and no substance. 

And then you have the messengers where it almost doesn't matter what they say, but where their BEING shines through in everything they DO and say.

I recently came across this picture of Timothy LEARY.  What a beautiful and powerful human being he was (just look at his eyes, to feel and touch his soul).  And the message he spread is still resonating almost 30 years after his demise.

Here an excerpt of one of his books, which touches me deeply. 

= = =

Admit it. You aren’t like them. You’re not even close. You may occasionally dress yourself up as one of them, watch the same mindless television shows as they do, maybe even eat the same fast food sometimes. But it seems that the more you try to fit in, the more you feel like an outsider, watching the “normal people” as they go about their automatic existences. For every time you say club passwords like “Have a nice day” and “Weather’s awful today, eh?”, you yearn inside to say forbidden things like “Tell me something that makes you cry” or “What do you think deja vu is for?”
Face it, you even want to talk to that girl in the elevator. But what if that girl in the elevator (and the balding man who walks past your cubicle at work) are thinking the same thing? Who knows what you might learn from taking a chance on conversation with a stranger? Everyone carries a piece of the puzzle. Nobody comes into your life by mere coincidence. Trust your instincts. Do the unexpected. Find the others.
~Timothy Leary

 

 

Crikey, I'd almost finished writing a long response to that and it just vanished! Not going to write it again, so sorry about that.

[Sunmaster]

34 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's not an actual gutter ( just a figure of speech ), and it's enjoyable. I liked Pattaya, which could be regarded as a gutter city, I liked the bar girls etc. It's too lonely up there in the stratosphere.

I know what you mean.
In the absence of a deeper connection, we seek human connection in relationships or even just a meaningful friendship, and if that's not available, a casual shag in Pattaya will have to do.
There comes a point in one's life though, where these types of connections don't satisfy us anymore. They are just mirror images of a deeper longing that, no matter how deep the connection to that other person is, still seeks fulfilment. Then, if that longing becomes unbearably strong, you embark on a new journey. This journey requires you to become a hermit, not just physically but spiritually. It requires you to let go of those other worldly endeavors and face the unknown. It is indeed lonely up there in the stratosphere.
So why do it? 
Because you realize that "absence of likeminded people or meaningful relationships" is not the same as loneliness.
Because you reconnect to the source that puts all other forms of fulfilment in the shadow.
And once your feet are firmly rooted in that source, you come back to the world and you notice a big change in you. Those meaningful connections you were seeking in that one special person, you can now find in every person, any stranger you meet for 5 minutes. You recognize that the Source in you is the same Source in them, even if they don't know it/see it. 
You will not feel lonely ever again.

[Red Phoenix]

41 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Crikey, I'd almost finished writing a long response to that and it just vanished! Not going to write it again, so sorry about that.

Hi TBL, sorry to hear that your response to the Timothy Leary post vanished before you were able to post it. 

Note that I have also experienced that annoying phenomenon before (especially when writing longer responses).  But I found out that it's often just a matter of clicking again on the QUOTE button to the post you were responding to, to see the text where you have left off, and you can then either delete the response started or continue writing it.

[Tippaporn]

2 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

The message and the messenger...

But the empty talks of the blonde pretties are immediately forgotten, as it is only package and no substance. 

And then you have the messengers where it almost doesn't matter what they say, but where their BEING shines through in everything they DO and say.

I recently came across this picture of Timothy LEARY.  What a beautiful and powerful human being he was (just look at his eyes, to feel and touch his soul).  And the message he spread is still resonating almost 30 years after his demise.

Here an excerpt of one of his books, which touches me deeply. 

= = =

Admit it. You aren’t like them. You’re not even close. You may occasionally dress yourself up as one of them, watch the same mindless television shows as they do, maybe even eat the same fast food sometimes. But it seems that the more you try to fit in, the more you feel like an outsider, watching the “normal people” as they go about their automatic existences. For every time you say club passwords like “Have a nice day” and “Weather’s awful today, eh?”, you yearn inside to say forbidden things like “Tell me something that makes you cry” or “What do you think deja vu is for?”
Face it, you even want to talk to that girl in the elevator. But what if that girl in the elevator (and the balding man who walks past your cubicle at work) are thinking the same thing? Who knows what you might learn from taking a chance on conversation with a stranger? Everyone carries a piece of the puzzle. Nobody comes into your life by mere coincidence. Trust your instincts. Do the unexpected. Find the others.
~Timothy Leary

 

 

 

I'd feel honoured if one day you quoted me, RP. 

 

Save my photo to your PC to conveniently attach anytime to my quote.  Caption reading:  Just look at his eyes and you can feel the depth of his wisdom touch your soul!" 

 

[Tippaporn]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

I know what you mean.
In the absence of a deeper connection, we seek human connection in relationships or even just a meaningful friendship, and if that's not available, a casual shag in Pattaya will have to do.
There comes a point in one's life though, where these types of connections don't satisfy us anymore. They are just mirror images of a deeper longing that, no matter how deep the connection to that other person is, still seeks fulfilment. Then, if that longing becomes unbearably strong, you embark on a new journey. This journey requires you to become a hermit, not just physically but spiritually. It requires you to let go of those other worldly endeavors and face the unknown. It is indeed lonely up there in the stratosphere.
So why do it? 
Because you realize that "absence of likeminded people or meaningful relationships" is not the same as loneliness.
Because you reconnect to the source that puts all other forms of fulfilment in the shadow.
And once your feet are firmly rooted in that source, you come back to the world and you notice a big change in you. Those meaningful connections you were seeking in that one special person, you can now find in every person, any stranger you meet for 5 minutes. You recognize that the Source in you is the same Source in them, even if they don't know it/see it. 
You will not feel lonely ever again.

 

Now that made me go through a box of Kleenex.   

[Red Phoenix]

13 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

 

I'd feel honoured if one day you quoted me, RP. 

 

Save my photo to your PC to conveniently attach anytime to my quote.  Caption reading:  Just look at his eyes and you can feel the depth of his wisdom touch your soul!" 

 

~ Thanks Tippa,

And I took the liberty to change the caption you provided, to make it more appropriate. 

"Hi Seth, share your wisdom - I am all ears..."  😉

 

Edited February 2 by Red Phoenix

[Tippaporn]

33 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

~ Thanks Tippa,

And I took the liberty to change the caption you provided, to make it more appropriate. 

"Hi Seth, share your wisdom - I am all ears..."  😉

 

 

I just gave your post a 'laugh' reaction and was surprised to see another poster had already given it the same.  Not too many posters on this thread currently so I'm using the deductive reasoning module of my intellect to figure out possible culprits. 

[Sunmaster]

10 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

 

I just gave your post a 'laugh' reaction and was surprised to see another poster had already given it the same.  Not too many posters on this thread currently so I'm using the deductive reasoning module of my intellect to figure out possible culprits. 

It's the Bully Gang!!

[Tippaporn]

On 1/31/2024 at 6:32 AM, Tippaporn said:

Has anyone run across stereograms?  Stereograms are images that seem to be random patterns that don't appear to be anything more.  Until one refocuses their eyes and a picture pops out.  There are also animated stereograms.  There's one of those in the link below of a 2014 music video by a band called Young Rival for their song Black Is Good.  It takes a bit of effort to refocus ones eyes but eventually you'll see the images.

 

What I found interesting about stereograms is that they are akin to refocusing ones consciousness.  Rather than the change in eye focus revealing the image of a picture or video images a change in the focus of ones consciousness reveals different aspects of reality.  Some people have trouble getting the hang of refocusing the eyes to see the actual image of a stereogram.  Ditto for refocusing ones consciousness.

 

https://ironicsans.substack.com/p/24-adventures-in-stereograms

 

Tips and tricks to be able to view a stereogram . . .

 

https://www.math.brown.edu/tbanchof/Yale/project14/stviewing.html

 

The trick of refocusing the eyes . . .

 

 

An example stereogram . . .

 

 

An animated stereogram . . . (not a bad song, either )  At times I can capture some of the images but I can't yet maintain the necessary focus.

 

 

I wanted to bump this post because it hadn't received any comments.  Not that bumping it is guaranteed to get any.    Any thoughts as to the parallel I'm drawing between needing to change the focus of ones eyes  to see the image and refocusing ones consciousness to view other realities?  Not any different, I think, than imbibing in alcohol or smoking weed or ingesting drugs will alter the focus of ones consciousness.  Seth says . . .

[Sunmaster]

2 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

 

I wanted to bump this post because it hadn't received any comments.  Not that bumping it is guaranteed to get any.    Any thoughts as to the parallel I'm drawing between needing to change the focus of ones eyes  to see the image and refocusing ones consciousness to view other realities?  Not any different, I think, than imbibing in alcohol or smoking weed or ingesting drugs will alter the focus of ones consciousness.  Seth says . . .

How do you "refocus" consciousness? 
View what other realities? If we can't even see the whole of this reality...?

Edited February 2 by Sunmaster

[Tippaporn]

19 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

22 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

I wanted to bump this post because it hadn't received any comments.  Not that bumping it is guaranteed to get any.    Any thoughts as to the parallel I'm drawing between needing to change the focus of ones eyes  to see the image and refocusing ones consciousness to view other realities?  Not any different, I think, than imbibing in alcohol or smoking weed or ingesting drugs will alter the focus of ones consciousness.  Seth says . . .

How do you "refocus" consciousness? 
View what other realities? If we can't even see the whole of this reality...?

 

Haven't you gotten the answers to those two questions from reading Seth's first two books?  I'm shocked that you're asking those questions.    Not really, as it does make sense.

 

Refocusing your consciousness might be better understood by replacing consciousness with awareness.  Your awareness changes after a six pack of beer, or smoking a joint, or taking a hit of acid.  But you can achieve the same without the alcohol, weed, or drugs.  You learn to change the focus of your awareness consciously and deliberately.  I had offered you the book of Seth's complete exercises in changing the focus of your consciousness, each such exercise geared towards a different end.  Have you gone through it at all?

 

It appears to me that Advaita Vedanta accounts for only two realities - the illusory physical one and the ultimate reality of Brahman.  I've seen no mention of any other reality.  The fact that this school of Hinduism believes in reincarnation then your reincarnational selves obviously don't exist in your current reality.  So, given that time is simultaneous then where are their existences occurring?  The idea of reincarnation then hints at the existence of other realities.  Granted, it's still dealing with only a single camouflage system.  To consider the idea of the existence of an infinite number of realities, certainly many other than physical, I would think that concept would necessarily throw you for a loop.  Consider that Seth has said that not all entities choose to experience our physical reality.  What about them, then?  Or are all entities engaged in the imprisonment in other realities trying to liberate themselves from their form of suffering, and perhaps their own cycle of existence in those realities, too?

 

I've asked before, what is Sunmaster doing in this world?  Did you come here of your own free will, of your own choice, or were you sent here against you free will?  And if you chose to come here then for what reason?  If you already are a part of God, or Brahman, then what's the point of having to endure suffering via however many reincarnations in order to rediscover your connection?  Is that any different than Christian theology's version in which God puts people on earth to prove themselves loyal to and adoring of God?

 

One of the greatest conflicts I see with the Seth material and Advaita Vedanta is this idea of moksha, which is the liberation from suffering and rebirth.  For one, the truth is that any suffering is self-created - you create your own reality always, here and in any other reality you find yourself in.  For another, liberation from rebirth suggests that a) you did not choose to come here, unless of course you're a masochist, and b) it's a terrible cycle of existence.  For what is the definition of 'liberation'?  You don't liberate yourself from bliss, do you?

 

I do believe you never went further with Seth because too much of it would contradict much of Advaita Vedanta.  Since you settled on Advaita Vedanta as your path then much of the Seth material cannot fit and must, therefore, be ignored.  As you've stated many times, needless intellectualization or superfluous details.  Or, as you yourself have stated, "I often have to re-read entire paragraphs because of the over-convoluted sentences."  What is straightforward to me is convoluted to you.  And perhaps Seth makes little sense if you're trying to squeeze his information into the framework of Advaita Vedanta.  But you credit Advaita Vedanta with, as Christians like to term it, "seeing the light," and granted that was a valid and even life changing experience, and so Advaita Vedanta must be the way forward.

[Tippaporn]

@Sunmaster

 

You are an artist, Sunmaster.  Could Brahman have created your works of art?  Or did Brahman need you to create those works?  Could Brahman have created those works in it's imagination?  Most definitely.  But Brahman could not, however have the experience of it.  You were able to experience the act of creating your artwork.  And so through you Brahman finds fulfillment that it otherwise could not have had.  Which makes your Sunmaster existence vitally important to Brahman.  Is that difficult to understand?  Does that not convey the true purpose of life on earth?

 

Creativity is a derivative of the word creation.  I've asked before, too, where does creativity fit in with Advaita Vedanta?  Is there any discussion of it?  For creativity is an inherent aspect and function of existence.  To create.  I would think that such an elementary aspect of Brahman would be a topic that's covered in detail in Advaita Vedanta.

[Sunmaster]

32 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

 

Haven't you gotten the answers to those two questions from reading Seth's first two books?  I'm shocked that you're asking those questions.    Not really, as it does make sense.

 

Refocusing your consciousness might be better understood by replacing consciousness with awareness.  Your awareness changes after a six pack of beer, or smoking a joint, or taking a hit of acid.  But you can achieve the same without the alcohol, weed, or drugs.  You learn to change the focus of your awareness consciously and deliberately.  I had offered you the book of Seth's complete exercises in changing the focus of your consciousness, each such exercise geared towards a different end.  Have you gone through it at all?

 

It appears to me that Advaita Vedanta accounts for only two realities - the illusory physical one and the ultimate reality of Brahman.  I've seen no mention of any other reality.  The fact that this school of Hinduism believes in reincarnation then your reincarnational selves obviously don't exist in your current reality.  So, given that time is simultaneous then where are their existences occurring?  The idea of reincarnation then hints at the existence of other realities.  Granted, it's still dealing with only a single camouflage system.  To consider the idea of the existence of an infinite number of realities, certainly many other than physical, I would think that concept would necessarily throw you for a loop.  Consider that Seth has said that not all entities choose to experience our physical reality.  What about them, then?  Or are all entities engaged in the imprisonment in other realities trying to liberate themselves from their form of suffering, and perhaps their own cycle of existence in those realities, too?

 

 

I've asked before, what is Sunmaster doing in this world?  Did you come here of your own free will, of your own choice, or were you sent here against you free will?  And if you chose to come here then for what reason?  If you already are a part of God, or Brahman, then what's the point of having to endure suffering via however many reincarnations in order to rediscover your connection?  Is that any different than Christian theology's version in which God puts people on earth to prove themselves loyal to and adoring of God?

 

One of the greatest conflicts I see with the Seth material and Advaita Vedanta is this idea of moksha, which is the liberation from suffering and rebirth.  For one, the truth is that any suffering is self-created - you create your own reality always, here and in any other reality you find yourself in.  For another, liberation from rebirth suggests that a) you did not choose to come here, unless of course you're a masochist, and b) it's a terrible cycle of existence.  For what is the definition of 'liberation'?  You don't liberate yourself from bliss, do you?

 

I do believe you never went further with Seth because too much of it would contradict much of Advaita Vedanta.  Since you settled on Advaita Vedanta as your path then much of the Seth material cannot fit and must, therefore, be ignored.  As you've stated many times, needless intellectualization or superfluous details.  Or, as you yourself have stated, "I often have to re-read entire paragraphs because of the over-convoluted sentences."  What is straightforward to me is convoluted to you.  And perhaps Seth makes little sense if you're trying to squeeze his information into the framework of Advaita Vedanta.  But you credit Advaita Vedanta with, as Christians like to term it, "seeing the light," and granted that was a valid and even life changing experience, and so Advaita Vedanta must be the way forward.

The problem here is, your harking on about Vedanta this and Vedanta that, compare it to Seth said this and Seth said that... I only came to Vedanta because it reflects what I already see by myself and it clears up some points that were not as clear before. Seth did the same at one point. I say it again, I'm not an expert on Vedanta. How could I? I just got into it less than a year. So, if you're eager to compare notes about the subtleties of Vedantic philosophy, I would suggest you find someone that is more versed in it.
If you want to compare notes on spiritual practice however, then I'd be happy to offer you my point of view.

Without going into too much detail, I'd like to clear up some of the distortions I found in your post.
Yes, awareness is the better word here. Consciousness is what IS, awareness of this one consciousness is what changes. There are endless degrees (levels?) in which awareness can focus on and illuminate consciousness. No, I haven't had time to read the book you shared. I'm currently reading Seth's Early Sessions Book 3, but since I started with the art projects I didn't have much time to read. All in good time.

 

Adavaita Vedanta is based on a non-dual spiritual/philosphical idea. That means that Brahman is the non-dual All-That-Is beyond time and space...the Ground from which all else emerges. From that point of view it is logical that everything that happens in Maya (the world), including all incarnations and reincarnations, happen right here, right now.
What happens to the other of your selves that are incarnated? Who cares? What benefit is it to you to know about them? Why bother about something you won't find out in this lifetime, when there is still your own self that needs discovering? I would say, find the root of this self first, then you're more likely to find the answers about those other selves. Your own self should be the starting point before everything else.

If you already are a part of God, or Brahman, then what's the point of having to endure suffering via however many reincarnations in order to rediscover your connection? 
A common misconception. Why bother with anything if your true identity is already Brahman? Are you aware that you are Brahman? My guess is no. So, knowing it on an intellectual level and knowing it because you are that, are 2 very different things. We are here because we forgot who/what we are. Why? I explain it to myself with the analogy of the lonely child creating the finger puppets. Brahman creates Maya as a way to experience itself. You say Vedanta doesn't mention creativity. I'm not sure that's true, because what is there more creative than Maya itself? The cosmic dance of creation and destruction on the background of eternal IS-ness.....is the greatest conceivable act of creativity.

Is that any different than Christian theology's version in which God puts people on earth to prove themselves loyal to and adoring of God?
God, Brahman, Spirit....none of them need or require to be worshipped. The act of worship benefits you alone. It's an attitude towards the Unknown that allows you to tune in with it. Non-dualists don't usually worship a personal God, but they don't dismiss it either. If it helps you to reconnect, then why not.
 

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

One of the greatest conflicts I see with the Seth material and Advaita Vedanta is this idea of moksha, which is the liberation from suffering and rebirth.  For one, the truth is that any suffering is self-created - you create your own reality always, here and in any other reality you find yourself in.  For another, liberation from rebirth suggests that a) you did not choose to come here, unless of course you're a masochist, and b) it's a terrible cycle of existence.  For what is the definition of 'liberation'?  You don't liberate yourself from bliss, do you?

"You create your reality" Which "you" is that? The limited awareness called Tippa? Or the "you" that is the eternal Self? 
What is suffering if not a limited awareness of All-That-Is? Not being one with All-That-Is means being separated. Of course, we are never really separated from it, nor are we never not one with it. The difference lies with the degree of awareness. Absolute reality (Brahman) and relative reality (our condition). Relative reality (RR) emerges from absolute reality (AR), it can not exist without AR. If you take away RR, AR will still exist. In that sense, which is "more real", more fundamental? AR is. 
A) How did you make the jump to this conclusion? You went to school knowing full well that you will have to take courses, difficult tests and tiring evaluations. You still chose to go to school, right? The reward was worth all the hardships, correct? 
B) Liberation....to free yourself from ignorance regarding your true identity. To peel all the onion layers until you come to the center. Once you reach the center, what will you find there? How is that terrible in any way?
You don't liberate yourself from bliss, do you?
Are you in a state of bliss right now? Not just happiness, I mean BLISS. No? What keeps you from it? Ignorance. What is the absence of ignorance? Bliss.

 

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

I do believe you never went further with Seth because too much of it would contradict much of Advaita Vedanta.  Since you settled on Advaita Vedanta as your path then much of the Seth material cannot fit and must, therefore, be ignored.  As you've stated many times, needless intellectualization or superfluous details.  Or, as you yourself have stated, "I often have to re-read entire paragraphs because of the over-convoluted sentences."  What is straightforward to me is convoluted to you.  And perhaps Seth makes little sense if you're trying to squeeze his information into the framework of Advaita Vedanta.  But you credit Advaita Vedanta with, as Christians like to term it, "seeing the light," and granted that was a valid and even life changing experience, and so Advaita Vedanta must be the way forward.

I didn't stop reading the Seth material, but like you said: why reading more and more manuals when you already have the best one? 🙂
I didn't "settle" on any particular teaching, unlike you. Any teaching I follow or study, I do so because it highlights a particular question I have or focuses on a particular aspect of my own experience. Experience comes first, the framework (manual) is built around that. Not the other way around.
Seriously though, what I'm looking for now can not be found in any book, neither the Baghawad Gita, nor Seth not anywhere else. 

And perhaps Seth makes little sense if you're trying to squeeze his information into the framework of Advaita Vedanta. 
lol The same can be said about you, trying to squeeze Vedanta in the Seth material.

 But you credit Advaita Vedanta with, as Christians like to term it, "seeing the light," and granted that was a valid and even life changing experience, and so Advaita Vedanta must be the way forward.
Not quite correct. What I said is that the concept of non-duality as highlighted by Advaita Vedanta, made sense to me in understanding and integrating my own experience. The same way the Seth material did for another aspect of my experience. 
Again, experience comes first. No book or teaching can be a replacement for direct experience.
God can not be understood, God must be experienced.

Did I already mention EXPERIENCE? 😁

[Sunmaster]

To see what intellectual knowledge without direct experience is, just look at Christianity. It started as direct experience (Jesus and Co., allegedly), but has quickly become an empty shell. Great to look at from the outside, but soulless inside. Why? Because the whole religion is built on the idea that we are worthless and full of sin, that we can't reach God on our own and need an intermediator. There is no focus on introspection apart from praying. Those that are supposed to teach us the way to God, have themselves no idea how to get there, so they teach the stories in the bible instead. Those that actually do have direct experiences within this structure are too few and have no real power to change anything. Christianity (but not only) is like a lifeless corpse, a zombie. 

The same can be said about all those lofty, highly elaborate ideas and philosophies that do nothing but perpetuate a self-congratulatory circle of intellectual self-pleasuring. Unless those ideas promote and are substantiated by direct experience, they too are lifeless and worthless.

Harsh but true.

[Tippaporn]

7 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

To see what intellectual knowledge without direct experience is, just look at Christianity. It started as direct experience (Jesus and Co., allegedly), but has quickly become an empty shell. Great to look at from the outside, but soulless inside. Why? Because the whole religion is built on the idea that we are worthless and full of sin, that we can't reach God on our own and need an intermediator. There is no focus on introspection apart from praying. Those that are supposed to teach us the way to God, have themselves no idea how to get there, so they teach the stories in the bible instead. Those that actually do have direct experiences within this structure are too few and have no real power to change anything. Christianity (but not only) is like a lifeless corpse, a zombie. 

The same can be said about all those lofty, highly elaborate ideas and philosophies that do nothing but perpetuate a self-congratulatory circle of intellectual self-pleasuring. Unless those ideas promote and are substantiated by direct experience, they too are lifeless and worthless.

Harsh but true.

 

That first reply wasn't enough?    I'm still on that one.    You're intent on keeping me busy the rest of the day. 

[Sunmaster]

5 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

 

That first reply wasn't enough?    I'm still on that one.    You're intent on keeping me busy the rest of the day. 

Pfff...says the one with the rapid-fire, encyclopedic posts. 

[Tippaporn]

3 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Pfff...says the one with the rapid-fire, encyclopedic posts. 

 

You got me there. 

[Red Phoenix]

10 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

 

You got me there. 

 

~ Yes he sure does!  And here the re(sun)mastered version to really rub it in...

 

 

[Sunmaster]

Sunday. A perfect day to relax, sit back and enjoy a Sunmaster approved video. 
If I'd seen this a couple of years ago, I would have saved myself a lot of typing.
 

 

[Red Phoenix]

17 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Sunday. A perfect day to relax, sit back and enjoy a Sunmaster approved video. 
If I'd seen this a couple of years ago, I would have saved myself a lot of typing.
 

 

 

Thanks @Sunmaster

Indeed a beautiful Sunday morning, and for those preferring not to watch a video but doing something else like meditating, gardening or simply relaxing, here a link to the wonderful Keith Jarrett album "G.I. Gurdjieff - Sacred Hymns"

https://open.spotify.com/track/0bxwbztejleFKUk6RMSi0u?si=56053f522561496d

 

 

Note: You need to subscribe to Spotify in order to listen to the album, but it's free (no cost) so give it a try... 

[Tippaporn]

4 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Sunday. A perfect day to relax, sit back and enjoy a Sunmaster approved video. 
If I'd seen this a couple of years ago, I would have saved myself a lot of typing.
 

 

 

I couldn't give your video a reaction as I can only give one.  So I have to reply to give it two reactions.
 

 

 

I'm starting to see more clearly where you're at with this.  Everything you write is pretty much verbatim of what the Swami talked about and what's talked about in this video.  The benefit of those videos is that the information is more structured than our conversations.  Our conversations are ad hoc in that we jump around from one specific idea to another.  That makes it much more difficult for me to get an overall picture of the idea construct of Advaita Vedanta, or any thought system that is more loosely or more tightly based upon it.

 

As I've said, there will be similarities and differences.  I give a thumbs up for the similarities.  But then there are other ideas expressed which, sorry to say, I find putrid.  I would consider those ideas to be conclusions which are reached from the experience of connecting with, say, your inner self which then become explanations, for example, for what our physical self is.  Those are what I call the distortions of the truth.  And in my most honest and humble opinion I consider some of those distortions to be quite massive and even detrimental.

 

Anyway, I need some time to sift through all of this information and organise my thoughts before I reply to your last posts and to this latest video.  I'll probably watch it a second time.  Maybe even a third.  I might want to watch some more of the Swami's videos.  Advaita Vedanta doesn't seem to be a very complex system of thought.  So far I see there are a number of basic concepts, tied together to make overall sense.  I say it's not very complex because there is a whole lot that's left out.  Hence why I bombard you with endless questions that I think become frustrating for you.