Anger over Brexit sparks new grassroots drive for Scottish independence

[RuamRudy]

Really? No vernacular? Hardly a hint of a 'heelan burr'? I bet you sound just like my Auntie Doris from Edinburgh.
 
The second paragraph suggests that you think a lot like her as well.

Then your Auntie Doris sounds like a grand old girl with a good sense of right and wrong.

I come from the west Highlands so we speak pretty good English with a healthy smattering of the Gaelic here and there, but not enough to make me content. But we tend to have a touch of that islands lilt that you might hear on Machair.

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[aright]

8 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

The Times' yougov poll - support for independence now at 49%. Not a bad result for the first week of campaigning.

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Thanks for that. There was me thinking the SNP had been campaigning for independance since 2007.

[aright]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

There are 15 countries in the EU with a GDP per capita less than Scotland, France being one of them

Obviously you think it is wrong for these countries to be sovereign nations.

Fortunately it is not up to you.

I agree we should let Scotland make their own decisions with reference of course to the Scottish experts.

 

"Scotland would be forced to dump the pound for its own free-floating currency immediately after independence, the country's most eminent macroeconomist has warned as he denounced the "poor" plans produced by both sides of an SNP battle over the issue.

Professor Ronald MacDonald, research professor of macroeconomics and international finance at Glasgow University’s Adam Smith Business School, told the Telegraph a separate currency not linked to sterling would be needed to pay off the country's £16 billion balance of payments deficit.

He said the Scottish Government could not practically keep the pound on a temporary basis after independence, as proposed by Nicola Sturgeon, as it would lack the currency reserves required immediately after separation to keep clearing the balance of payment."

 https://flipboard.com/@TheTelegraph/independent-scotland-'would-be-forced-to-dump-pound-on-day-one-for-its-own-float/a-nS7b819NTrmfaV4XIh7_MA%3Aa%3A9071152-fb3a826294/co.uk

[RuamRudy]

Thanks for that. There was me thinking the SNP had been campaigning for independance since 2007.

2007? They were formed in 1934 so the candle has been burning for a lot longer than that.

But I am not sure of your point? Are you suggesting that they have been somewhat tardy in their progress? While of course I can fully agree, the combined forces of decades of a corrupt Westminster, the BBC and the fourth estate has cowed us all, from John O Groats to Lands End.

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[malagateddy]

Thanks for that. There was me thinking the SNP had been campaigning for independance since 2007.

Troops..maybe put this one on the back burner..unless I'm mistaken..before the end of this calander year there will be a global recession and sadly some regional conflict.
Msybe best to forget imo a small matter and think carefully re the global picture re your nearest n dearest???
Cheers

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[RuamRudy]

I agree we should let Scotland make their own decisions with reference of course to the Scottish experts.
 

"Scotland would be forced to dump the pound for its own free-floating currency immediately after independence, the country's most eminent macroeconomist has warned as he denounced the "poor" plans produced by both sides of an SNP battle over the issue.

Professor Ronald MacDonald, research professor of macroeconomics and international finance at Glasgow University’s Adam Smith Business School, told the Telegraph a separate currency not linked to sterling would be needed to pay off the country's £16 billion balance of payments deficit.

He said the Scottish Government could not practically keep the pound on a temporary basis after independence, as proposed by Nicola Sturgeon, as it would lack the currency reserves required immediately after separation to keep clearing the balance of payment."

 https://flipboard.com/@TheTelegraph/independent-scotland-'would-be-forced-to-dump-pound-on-day-one-for-its-own-float/a-nS7b819NTrmfaV4XIh7_MA%3Aa%3A9071152-fb3a826294/co.uk

While I am in no position to argue economics with an economics professor, even one tied to the right wing Adam Smith Institute, I often wonder why Scotland is deemed incapable of doing what 51 other independent nations have successfully achieved - throwing of the shackles of the UK.

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[aright]

8 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

2007? They were formed in 1934 so the candle has been burning for a lot longer than that.

But I am not sure of your point? Are you suggesting that they have been somewhat tardy in their progress? While of course I can fully agree, the combined forces of decades of a corrupt Westminster, the BBC and the fourth estate has cowed us all, from John O Groats to Lands End.

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I think a combination of 2 things leading up to "why bother?"

The length of campaign time......85 years if what you say is correct.

The latest survey which shows over 50% of Scots either don't want another referendum in the next decade or ever...….. and the stay campaign hasn't got started yet.

However I have no dog in this fight and Scotland must make it's own decisions, I do however have many Scottish friends mainly on the stay side of the argument and do enjoy my 2 weeks in Edinburgh in August every year so would not want anything untoward to happen.

I liked the comment in your last post "I am in no position to argue economics with an economics professor" then do.

 

[nauseus]

15 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

While I am in no position to argue economics with an economics professor, even one tied to the right wing Adam Smith Institute, I often wonder why Scotland is deemed incapable of doing what 51 other independent nations have successfully achieved - throwing of the shackles of the UK.

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Not really a (51) comparison there but who says that Scotland is incapable of shedding "shackles"?

 

But where do these numbers come from?

[RuamRudy]

I think a combination of 2 things leading up to "why bother?"
The length of campaign time......85 years if what you say is correct.
The latest survey which shows over 50% of Scots either don't want another referendum in the next decade or ever...….. and the stay campaign hasn't got started yet.
However I have no dog in this fight and Scotland must make it's own decisions, I do however have many Scottish friends mainly on the stay side of the argument and do enjoy my 2 weeks in Edinburgh in August every year so would not want anything untoward to happen.
I liked the comment in your last post "I am in no position to argue economics with an economics professor" then do.
 

The latest campaign, without a date announced, shows 49% of Scots want independence. I am comfortable with that.

After 300 years of repression and constant cultural whitewashing, is it particularly surprising that there are still so many of our countrymen have been beaten into subservience?

As a child I was taught in school about the Battle of Hastings and the War of the Roses - interesting, no doubt, but not part of my history, which was not taught in school at all. Now we are in a position where people react violently to gaelic signage - scots objecting to their heritage on a road sign. Sad days indeed.

As for your assessment of my comments on Scotland's ability to fund itself - I am honoured that you think they amount to an argument, but they are simply musings about a situation that seems illogical.

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[RuamRudy]

Not really a (51) comparison there but who says that Scotland is incapable of shedding "shackles"?
 
But where do these numbers come from?

Off for a curry at the moment, but I will get back to you with sources in the morning...

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[malagateddy]

While I am in no position to argue economics with an economics professor, even one tied to the right wing Adam Smith Institute, I often wonder why Scotland is deemed incapable of doing what 51 other independent nations have successfully achieved - throwing of the shackles of the UK.

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R/R....

My dear friend...

Think of the benefits and welfare costs...do you know that scottish taxpayers pay more than the rest of the UK taxpayers??
Think bout costs of. Police..NHS..Fire n Rescue..Roads maintainance..setting up small Defence Force..
Local Govt will see their funding slashed..big big protests outside eg Glasgoe City Chambers as locally important council units close..eg..libraries..senior citizens day centres etc etc.
Of course the snp could increase massively income tax..all the various business taxes..end result being massive unemployment and unrest.

R/R..with respect..you do not live and work in scotland..hence with respect..you are maybe too much theory not practise.
Cheers

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[lungbing]

If the Scots want independence then just let the rest of the UK vote too.  The problem would be if the rest of us said  'go' but the Scots said 'stay'.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

Off for a curry at the moment, but I will get back to you with sources in the morning...

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 Better leave it til Monday then.  

[sandyf]

14 hours ago, aright said:

I agree we should let Scotland make their own decisions with reference of course to the Scottish experts.

 

"Scotland would be forced to dump the pound for its own free-floating currency immediately after independence, the country's most eminent macroeconomist has warned as he denounced the "poor" plans produced by both sides of an SNP battle over the issue.

Professor Ronald MacDonald, research professor of macroeconomics and international finance at Glasgow University’s Adam Smith Business School, told the Telegraph a separate currency not linked to sterling would be needed to pay off the country's £16 billion balance of payments deficit.

He said the Scottish Government could not practically keep the pound on a temporary basis after independence, as proposed by Nicola Sturgeon, as it would lack the currency reserves required immediately after separation to keep clearing the balance of payment."

 https://flipboard.com/@TheTelegraph/independent-scotland-'would-be-forced-to-dump-pound-on-day-one-for-its-own-float/a-nS7b819NTrmfaV4XIh7_MA%3Aa%3A9071152-fb3a826294/co.uk

Thats a good one.

Now tell me what the brexiteers had to say about "expert opinion" that went against brexit.

Any so called expert will make a case for their own point of view, all subject to human nature.

 

At the end of the day the Scottish government will have a viable plan, or they won't, and the people will vote on that basis.

Personally I would agree that she should be looking at other options, Westminster will do what it can to make life difficult anyway and in particular with the pound.

 

 

[malagateddy]

Thats a good one.
Now tell me what the brexiteers had to say about "expert opinion" that went against brexit.
Any so called expert will make a case for their own point of view, all subject to human nature.
 
At the end of the day the Scottish government will have a viable plan, or they won't, and the people will vote on that basis.
Personally I would agree that she should be looking at other options, Westminster will do what it can to make life difficult anyway and in particular with the pound.
 
 

The Unionist/Royalist Business Community will rather easily expose any snp economic blueprint re independence for what it is..utter claptrap..full of maybe's if we do this or that etc etc.
One thing is a certainty..massive business and personal tax increases; along with massive council tax increases.
Do you honestly believe that people would vote for something that would take over 65% of their salary or wages..
I do not think so.

Have a lovely day


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[JAG]

It rather seems to me that the Scottish Nationalist's argument for independence has amongst it's central pillars an intention to break from the UK in the hope that they can then hand many of their newly won "sovereign powers" to the EU ( rather pointless?) and an expectation that they will be able to keep Sterling, which will then be essentially an English currency, and over which, and it's fiscal direction, they will have no control (rather silly/naive?).

 

Of course I am an Englishman, who no longer lives in the UK, so I have no dog in this fight. It could of course be argued that all UK citizen ls should have a say in the dismantling of their country, (they won't of course) but could I ask for you at least to get on with it, whatever the outcome! At the moment it rather seems that you are waiting for "Brigadoon" to appear out of the mists, before you take the plunge! It has been going on for a long time, the arguments have been done to death, and frankly, it is becoming tedious.

Edited April 28, 2019 by JAG

[malagateddy]

It rather seems to me that the Scottish Nationalist's argument for independence has amongst it's central pillars an intention to break from the UK in the hope that they can then hand many of their newly won "sovereign powers" to the EU ( rather pointless?) and an expectation that they will be able to keep Sterling, which will then be essentially an English currency, and over which, and it's fiscal direction, they will have no control (rather silly/naive?).
 
Of course I am an Englishman, who no longer lives in the UK, so I have no dog in this fight. It could of course be argued that all UK citizen ls should have a say in the dismantling of their country, (they won't of course) but could I ask for you at least to get on with it, whatever the outcome! At the moment it rather seems that you are waiting for "Brigadoon" to appear out of the mists, before you take the plunge! It has been going on for a long time, the arguements have been done to death, and frankly, it is becoming tedious.

As a Royalist and a Unionist I agree.
I'm a Glasgow man who moved to and now resides in Thailand.
I view the vile and repugnant snp/republican/English and British haters with utter contempt and disdain.
I can only state this...if ever there is an indyref2 ... the Unionist/Royalist Business Community will completely shred the snp economic financial plan re their independence " dream ".
I doubt that many people would vote for independence knowing that well over 65% of their salary/wages are whipped of them in tax.
Sadly imo..only perfect world dreamers..the " broo " workshy people and snp/republican fanatics would fancy independence, imagining that their " taking " of taxpayers hard earned money would go on for ever.
Right now..scottish taxes are higher than the rest of the UK!!!!!
Also..if likes of sturgeon thinks that she can just waltz into the eu without having yet another referendum she's in for one heck of a shock.
Cheers

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[sidgy]

While I am in no position to argue economics with an economics professor, even one tied to the right wing Adam Smith Institute, I often wonder why Scotland is deemed incapable of doing what 51 other independent nations have successfully achieved - throwing of the shackles of the UK.

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So in this picture it shows Scotland earns 58b but spends 73b, 43b by Westminster and 30b by Holyrood making a deficit of 15b if I am not mistaken


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[Kwasaki]

On 4/25/2019 at 4:32 PM, puipuitom said:

The percentage of the people's votes… nobody is interested in according to the British way of democracy

Very true or UK would be out of the EU already and getting on with it.

[david555]

They taking it serious this time it seems...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/27/snp-votes-for-scotland-having-its-own-currency-if-it-leaves-the-uk

SNP votes for Scotland to quickly adopt new currency if it leaves UK

Rebuke to party leadership as cautious timetable for replacing sterling is rejected

The Scottish National party has voted to establish an independent currency “as soon as practicable” if Scotland were to leave the UK, as activists rejected a more cautious timetable put forward by the party leadership.

In a narrow victory for the grassroots, the party conference agreed by 52 votes to amend part of a wide-ranging economic blueprint, created by the party’s sustainable growth commission, to allow for a new currency to be fast-tracked and “ready for introduction as soon as practicable after Independence Day”.

 

more...

Edited April 28, 2019 by david555

[bomber]

2 hours ago, malagateddy said:

As a Royalist and a Unionist I agree.
I'm a Glasgow man who moved to and now resides in Thailand.
I view the vile and repugnant snp/republican/English and British haters with utter contempt and disdain.
I can only state this...if ever there is an indyref2 ... the Unionist/Royalist Business Community will completely shred the snp economic financial plan re their independence " dream ".
I doubt that many people would vote for independence knowing that well over 65% of their salary/wages are whipped of them in tax.
Sadly imo..only perfect world dreamers..the " broo " workshy people and snp/republican fanatics would fancy independence, imagining that their " taking " of taxpayers hard earned money would go on for ever.
Right now..scottish taxes are higher than the rest of the UK!!!!!
Also..if likes of sturgeon thinks that she can just waltz into the eu without having yet another referendum she's in for one heck of a shock.
Cheers

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your a scottish bulldog who probably cheers for england at the world cup,in beter known as a traitor.

[Scutty]

Yeeeesss !!! On you go Wee Nicky , you tell the Sassenach scum where to shove their stinking union . Scotland Freedom Now or a Desert 

[bomber]

4 hours ago, sandyf said:

Thats a good one.

Now tell me what the brexiteers had to say about "expert opinion" that went against brexit.

Any so called expert will make a case for their own point of view, all subject to human nature.

 

At the end of the day the Scottish government will have a viable plan, or they won't, and the people will vote on that basis.

Personally I would agree that she should be looking at other options, Westminster will do what it can to make life difficult anyway and in particular with the pound.

 

 

the jocks wont be wanting the pound,thats one thing we can be sure of

[malagateddy]

your a scottish bulldog who probably cheers for england at the world cup,in beter known as a traitor.

Ah bomber..how are you this morning??
" in beter " .. do you mean " is better "??? or perhaps " and is better "????

Have a lovely day old boy

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[malagateddy]

They taking it serious this time it seems...
 
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/27/snp-votes-for-scotland-having-its-own-currency-if-it-leaves-the-uk
SNP votes for Scotland to quickly adopt new currency if it leaves UK
Rebuke to party leadership as cautious timetable for replacing sterling is rejected

The Scottish National party has voted to establish an independent currency “as soon as practicable” if Scotland were to leave the UK, as activists rejected a more cautious timetable put forward by the party leadership.
In a narrow victory for the grassroots, the party conference agreed by 52 votes to amend part of a wide-ranging economic blueprint, created by the party’s sustainable growth commission, to allow for a new currency to be fast-tracked and “ready for introduction as soon as practicable after Independence Day”.
 
more...

Champions League material..you're having a laugh [emoji2][emoji2][emoji2][emoji2][emoji2]

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[bomber]

3 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Ah bomber..how are you this morning??
" in beter " .. do you mean " is better "??? or perhaps " and is better "????

Have a lovely day old boy

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grammar police out in force again,

[malagateddy]

Yeeeesss !!! On you go Wee Nicky , you tell the Sassenach scum where to shove their stinking union . Scotland Freedom Now or a Desert 

Yip..scotland would certainly be not so much a desert..Greece without the sun is more apt I think

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[david555]

6 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

 

 

Yip..scotland would certainly be not so much a desert..Greece without the sun is more apt I think

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I think more like a very favorable common market or costoms union..., in waiting for full membership if they like …..almost like being and feeling like a E.U. membership  ,I think Barnier & co shall be very creative... 

Edited April 28, 2019 by david555

[Scutty]

19 hours ago, aright said:

Professor Ronald MacDonald, research professor of macroeconomics and international finance at Glasgow University’s Adam Smith Business School, told the Telegraph a separate currency not linked to sterling would be needed to pay off the country's £16 billion balance of payments deficit.

This Mac Donald nob ed is a Tory anyway . What makes you believe anything comes out of his mouth ? Hes only thinking of his funds in the Caymen islands .

[Scutty]

For the above idiot who cannot read a simple sentence i said Scotland Fredom now OR a desert .