TM30 or not?

[cnmltd]

Hi all, just a quick question.

My brother is arriving today from the UK

on a visa exempt for 30 days.

He will be staying with me in Pattaya for the duration.

Do I need to go to immigration for a TM30 for him?

I live in my sons townhouse so dont have a rental contract.

What documents do I need?

Thanks in advance for any infos.

[ubonjoe]

No need to do the report unless he will be doing something at immigration while he is here.

[cnmltd]

Thank you very much Ubonjoe for your reply.

A weight off my mind.

[asiamaster]

Perhaps it may be advisable to stay the first night at a hotel of which you can be sure that they will report and fill in that address on the landing card. But as Ubonjoe quite rightfully mentions if he does not have to go in to immigration office  for an extension or so no real need.

[mtls2005]

20 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

No need to do the report unless he will be doing something at immigration while he is here.

 

There has been at least one report of a police/Imm sweep at a large condo complex (Supalai Park Srinakarin) recently checking foreigners (of all shades) for TM-30 details.

 

So, who knows what might be "legal"? Agree it's probably fine until it isn't. And the odds of getting caught in a sweep are probably small, just have 800 baht handy, or maybe 1,600?

[AAArdvark]

21 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

No need to do the report unless he will be doing something at immigration while he is here.

Can we assume that there is no database that connects TM-6s and TM-30s?

[ubonjoe]

42 minutes ago, AAArdvark said:

Can we assume that there is no database that connects TM-6s and TM-30s?

There is no database the links them. There is only a database for TM30 reports done online by hotels and etc.

[thedemon]

45 minutes ago, AAArdvark said:

Can we assume that there is no database that connects TM-6s and TM-30s?

At least the way it used to be is that after collection all the TM6 arrival cards were sorted into batches according to flight number, had a rubber band put around each batch and then put in boxes according to date. Unless there was an issue later and a particular card needed to be retrieved they would never again see the light of day.

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, thedemon said:

At least the way it used to be is that after collection all the TM6 arrival cards were sorted into batches according to flight number, had a rubber band put around each batch and then put in boxes according to date.

Most of what is on the TM6 used for entry is entered in the main database. After that the card is really irrelevant.

TM30 record keeping for those done at local offices is a file of them done and the receipt for it given to the person doing it. There is only a database for the reports done online.

[thedemon]

21 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Most of what is on the TM6 used for entry is entered in the main database. After that the card is really irrelevant.

TM30 record keeping for those done at local offices is a file of them done and the receipt for it given to the person doing it. There is only a database for the reports done online.

I'm fairly sure that the address written on a TM6 is not entered into their database. I don't see how it could be.

[Briggsy]

6 minutes ago, thedemon said:

I'm fairly sure that the address written on a TM6 is not entered into their database. I don't see how it could be.

Could it be that the TM6 is scanned so that the address is not typed in to a database but a copy of the handwritten address would be retrievable electronically?

 

Having said that, I do recall one time at Ban Laem checkpoint when the Immigration Officer insisted I give him the full address, house number, moo, tambon, district,.... and he laboriously typed it in. This was during one of the paranoid pointless crackdown periods that quickly subside when it all becomes too time-consuming and too much effort.

[CH1961]

It's fine until it isn't. 

Due the controls in Pattaya it could end in Soi 9. 

Where do you stay? with my brother, ok show me the TM30 ????

In a Hotel?, ok we go there to check it ????

ubonjoe, your info to the OP is very dangerous and illegal. 

 

[BritManToo]

8 minutes ago, CH1961 said:

It's fine until it isn't. 

Due the controls in Pattaya it could end in Soi 9. 

Where do you stay? with my brother, ok show me the TM30 ????

In a Hotel?, ok we go there to check it ????

ubonjoe, your info to the OP is very dangerous and illegal. 

 

If caught ...........

Previous suggestions were to tell them you were in a hotel in another province until last night.

As they have no way of checking that.

Edited April 27, 2019 by BritManToo

[ubonjoe]

3 hours ago, CH1961 said:

ubonjoe, your info to the OP is very dangerous and illegal. 

Not dangerous at all. Many people arrive in the country and have never had their presence registered at a residence. Many offices do not enforce the requirement.

Immigration knows where I live but I have never done a TM30 form.The use my address from when I have applied for my extensions and my 90 day reports.

How is illegal?

[AAArdvark]

13 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Not dangerous at all. Many people arrive in the country and have never had their presence registered at a residence. Many offices do not enforce the requirement.

Immigration knows where I live but I have never done a TM30 form.The use my address from when I have applied for my extensions and my 90 day reports.

How is illegal?

I know the below quote is not what the OP was asking, but you say you " have never done a TM30" which would indicate that you have never stayed outside of your current address??

 

PHUKET: The Chief of the Phuket Immigration Office, Col Kathathorn Kumthieng, has confirmed that all foreigners registered as living in Phuket must re-report their address to immigration after being registered as staying in a hotel within Thailand, even for just one night.

The confirmation follows complaints from long-term expats that they were fined B2,000 for not re-registering their home addresses after travelling within the country.

“By law, it is a requirement to register your address within 24 hours after being registered elsewhere, such as at a hotel or a guesthouse,” Col Kathathorn told The Phuket News this week.

“This is because the hotel or guest house will have to register you, also by law, as residing somewhere other than your residence. So when you return to your residence, you must inform immigration,” he explained.

The same also applies for foreigners living in Phuket who leave the country and return, say for a weekend trip to Singapore.

Col Kathathorn played down concerns for honest, law-abiding expats.

“Although it is the law, if it’s a short stay, for example a day or two, and nothing happens to prompt officials to check then there usually won’t be a problem,” he said, for stays away from home within the country.

“However, if you become involved in an incident and become a suspect in a case for example, not re-registering your address will be a big problem. So it’s better if you do.”

Regardless, although the overall effect for most foreigners caught not re-registering their address each time on returning home to Phuket might be deemed negligible, foreigners will be liable to a B2,000 fine for each infringement and the incident will remain on their immigration record.

Col Kathathorn explained that the requirement for foreigners to re-register their address in Thailand, even if they have lived at the same address for many years, derives from an archaic immigration law, specifically Section 37 (2) of the Thailand Immigration Act of 1979.

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, AAArdvark said:

I know the below quote is not what the OP was asking, but you say you " have never done a TM30" which would indicate that you have never stayed outside of your current address??

You quoted Phuket rules not my local offices rules. It varies greatly from office to office.

I have stayed in hotels that I am sure did a online report. The only way immigration could know you traveled within the country is if you tell them or they go to the trouble to check the database to find out if a hotel did a online report.

I have never been asked to do one in almost 12 years of being on extensions of stay. That includes changing addresses one time.

[CH1961]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

How is illegal?

It's very simple, it is Thai law ????

http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=alienstay

[jacko45k]

15 hours ago, CH1961 said:

It's fine until it isn't. 

Due the controls in Pattaya it could end in Soi 9. 

Where do you stay? with my brother, ok show me the TM30 ????

In a Hotel?, ok we go there to check it ????

ubonjoe, your info to the OP is very dangerous and illegal. 

 

It was the fear that my 'guest' might get taken there while riding the rental bike that caused me to obtain a TM30 for him. Although after 3 hours of waiting at immigration I was having other thoughts. 

[mtls2005]

12 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The only way immigration could know you traveled within the country is if you tell them or they go to the trouble to check the database to find out if a hotel did a online report.

 

I think that Immigration has entered a new phase of integrated IT systems so assuming that the "old ways" continue to apply may cause issues for some.

 

A data point I only became aware of yesterday is that hospitals are also required to submit TM-30's for foreigners who remain in their care overnight. Do ALL hospitals adhere to this law? Probably not, but some private hospitals in Bangkok do. A neighbor was required to remain overnight at Bumrungrad recently, and this week, when doing his 90-day report in person at CW ( he tried using the online system which he had used successfully before but was REJECTED ) was blocked for not having a TM-30 filed for his movement from the hospital back to his current/primary/registered address. Staff at Bumrungrad had reported his "new address" via a TM-30. His in-person TM-47/90 day report address was different from the one (Bumrungrad) currently on the system.

 

 

He had to pay the 800 baht fine first, then was able to complete his 90-day report. SInce this was done at the newly constructed B (TM-30) counter at CW I can only assume that he essentially filed his own TM-30, which then updated the system and allowed a successful 90-day report.

 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2019 by mtls2005

[Kenchamp]

I always thought that you only needed to submit a TM30 if your stay was for more than 90 days, hence why people with multi enty non o's don't bother.

Edited April 28, 2019 by Kenchamp

[Sophon]

21 minutes ago, Kenchamp said:

I always thought that you only needed to submit a TM30 if your stay was for more than 90 days, hence why people with multi enty non o's don't bother.

You are thinking about 90 day reports (TM47).

 

Sophon

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, mtls2005 said:

I think that Immigration has entered a new phase of integrated IT systems so assuming that the "old ways" continue to apply may cause issues for some.

I don't think they have. 

Not sure why he could not do his 90 day report online. It is standalone system and the approvals are done at the local office.

I think the officer may of noticed he did not have a TM30 receipt and checked the database to see if one had been done.

 

1 hour ago, mtls2005 said:

He had to pay the 800 baht fine first, then was able to complete his 90-day report. SInce this was done at the newly constructed B (TM-30) counter at CW I can only assume that he essentially filed his own TM-30, which then updated the system and allowed a successful 90-day report.

I think that was because a TM30 report had never been done for his registered address.

[mtls2005]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

Not sure why he could not do his 90 day report online.

 

He was told, when he went in person, that his online 90-day report was rejected because his address (primary) used during the online process did not match his "current" TM-30 (Bumrungrad) address.

 

3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I think that was because a TM30 report had never been done for his registered address.

 

Perhaps, but I still think he would have been out of compliance as a "new" TM-30 was not filed (within 24 hours, or in this case, at all) showing his address change from Bumrungrad to his "primary" address.

 

 

5 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I think the officer may of noticed he did not have a TM30 receipt and checked the database to see if one had been done.

 

But he did have a TM-30 filed showing him at Bumrungrad.

 

 

[Kalasin Jo]

19 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Not dangerous at all. Many people arrive in the country and have never had their presence registered at a residence. Many offices do not enforce the requirement.

Immigration knows where I live but I have never done a TM30 form.The use my address from when I have applied for my extensions and my 90 day reports.

How is illegal?

Neither have I. Presumably though done by hotels and guesthouses when I stay away from home.

[AAArdvark]

6 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

He was told, when he went in person, that his online 90-day report was rejected because his address (primary) used during the online process did not match his "current" TM-30 (Bumrungrad) address.

I wonder just how precise the address must match.  With the length of Thai address, it would be easy to get something a bit off.

[Tuvoc]

On 4/27/2019 at 12:44 PM, ubonjoe said:

I have stayed in hotels that I am sure did a online report. 

 

There are hotels that certainly don't, because they don't even ask for my passport. They just ask for my wife's ID card and the room is in her name. Now that is certainly illegal.

[keemapoot]

6 minutes ago, Tuvoc said:

 

There are hotels that certainly don't, because they don't even ask for my passport. They just ask for my wife's ID card and the room is in her name. Now that is certainly illegal.

The hotel prefers that. They are shifting the burden to your wife to report, and by extension to you. In other words, your wife is now legally required to report as you are staying as a guest of hers in the room. In the end, if you have anything you need from immigration, they will nail you for a fine, or if you are with your wife will confront her first, and you will ultimately be responsible for both the hotel and your wife failing to report.

 

It's that absurd.

Edited April 29, 2019 by keemapoot
sp

[Tuvoc]

Absurd indeed, but immigration couldn't possibly nail me for a fine if they don't ever know I was there, which they don't because the hotel didn't report it.

 

At the moment it is academic because I'm still living in the UK, but when we do retire to Thailand soon I'll make sure I am meticulous about all of this stuff !