My kid just got the lowest mark possible for English in his school report

[Number 6]

6 hours ago, Scott said:

It's a very good idea to check with the school and find out specifically what resulted in the low score.   There are a lot of possibilities, and not all of them may relate to his academic performance.   Perhaps he is acting up in class, not doing assigned work and other things.   His teacher may be targeting him for some reason, so as a parent you owe it to your child to make sure he is headed in the right direction.  

 

My thoughts exactly, but I can't see boys troubling themselves to correct a teacher.

 

Not doing his work, very possibly bored.

 

Exams in Thailand are very quirky. Listening Speaking could have written exam. If the teacher is not especially ambitious there will be few assessments. If he's blown these you can get below 80% quickly. Thai teachers love error detection, a niggling futile excercise finding ridiculous little grammar and syntax mistakes in sentences.

 

Most Thai English teacher's writing and grammar is about B1-2 so they're only catching basic writing issues. My impression of the Thai English classroom is it's exceedingly dull. I would fail out myself from boredom.

 

Had a young man in my class few years back, luuk krung. His writing and spelling atrocious. He had learning and psychological issues. Kids would pick on him but from what I understand he had a history of drama.

[Number 6]

1 hour ago, Stevemercer said:

Remember also that the Thai education system teaches American English and spelling. For example, the English use 'colour', but Americans use 'color'.

 

I guess both are correct, but Thai spelling books would only recognise (sorry, recognize) the American spelling.

This is not correct. It's based on the British system. North American English texts are a bit of a new thing. Further, I believe the number of UK and Commonwealth teachers far outweigh N.A.

 

It's a hash honestly. Both accepted by most teachers as it should be. I'd never dream of correcting such issues. American spelling is easier imo, simpler more phonetic.

[HaleySabai]

27 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

If you listen to the news reports, or times when more formal or polite speaking / conversation is needed you will hear that most Thai people can indeed pronounce R's and L's perfectly.

 

A proper qualified Thai teacher will most definitely be able to teach English properly.

When we moved out to Mae Rim last year my daughter started an evening English class to make friends with local kids. The parents were happy to get their children involved as several were attending costly bi-lingual schools in ChiangMai. A few of the parents brought their kids school workbooks for us to look at and I was astonished at the complexity of English language in use,very dry and technical material for an ESL student of 8-10yrs old. Talk about making a language boring,thus introducing a high chance of learning failure.

My daughter,9yrs old and homeschooled, thought that teaching basic phonics to help them with pronunciation and spelling would be fun and useful....it was fun but not easy as their listening/comprehension skills proved to be so distorted that many of the kids became frustrated. Not one of the 8 kids could verbalize an 'R' or "L" properly,thus their spelling of words containing these sounds were always wrong.

To this my wife, who reads,writes and speaks English fluently claims that the "rolling R" is no longer taught in primary,for whatever reason. Not clear why the "L" poses a challenge as well.

 

Thais do have these sounds under their tongues,the examples of which are spoken 'high-Thai' but I do hear it to degree in everyday speak of local 'older' people. But the new generation?

 

As my daughter's effort to teach basic English were met with psychological and physical resistance from both parent and kid the class eventually petered out. It became clear that their was almost zero interest in learning English and after enduring such a brutally long school day these kids were just plain tired when they showed up. However,my daughter succeeded in making friends and life went on in both Thai & English.

 

[gk10002000]

I went to USAF officer training school.  I had my BS in engineering.  Born in the USA, always and only spoke english, honor student, top SAT scores etc.  After college first week at OTS in Texas,  They gave an english exam.  Passive voice?  Barely rang a bell.  Infinitive? hmmm.  Anyway I scored horribly.  My speaking and writing skills are fine and I do not misspell.  But my captain seriously asked if I could read!  Anyway, I obviously was poor in the technical definitions of grammar.  So they gave me this little booklet and then I remembered all those grammar things that most people could not remember.  I have loo ked at some of the english teaching materials they use in Thailand.  And to me they focus on aspects of grammar that are too technical and most people will not remember. So just saying that may be something the child there is not prepared for.  Even though he may speak and read in english he probably is not aware of what he is doing and tenses, and genders, while correctly used are not consciously known

[Pilotman]

2 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

Luk khrueng children are generally discriminated against in Thai schools and frequently abused/bullied.

 

My half-Thai daughter was the best English speaker at her school and won a number of inter-schools speaking contests.

 

Then one day she came home and announced she would not be allowed to compete any more because she had a falang father.

 

She was understandably angry and upset, but soon perked up when I explained she was a victim of racism, jealousy and envy (well, we're all entitled to play the victim card sometimes, in a good cause!) and that in the end the school would be the loser.

 

She's never looked back.

when our Thai/Brit daughter was born in Udon, we vowed that she would not be 'educated' in Thailand.  I was travelling a great deal then, so we re located to the UK  so that she could be schooled in that system.  She is now just completing her final year at a UK University and we have never regretted that decision.  Her contemporaries and relatives of the same age in her Mums old village are either married with kids, working in a dead end job for peanuts, or farm workers.  She fully appreciates what a lucky escape she had from the sub standard education system here.  

[BritManToo]

35 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

when our Thai/Brit daughter was born in Udon, we vowed that she would not be 'educated' in Thailand.  I was travelling a great deal then, so we re located to the UK  so that she could be schooled in that system.  She is now just completing her final year at a UK University and we have never regretted that decision.  Her contemporaries and relatives of the same age in her Mums old village are either married with kids, working in a dead end job for peanuts, or farm workers.  She fully appreciates what a lucky escape she had from the sub standard education system here.  

On the other had, those earning peanuts in Thailand will own their own homes, and your daughter probably won't (unless you buy it for her). My step-daughter (age 20, attends CMRU) went back to her village for Songkran, came back early, said no fun all fer friends had husbands and babies.

 

The rat race in the UK isn't a lot of fun these days, my 4 English kids (aged 20-35) have education debt, and live in rented accommodation, working hard just to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table. 

[Jonnapat]

I once met an English English teacher in Nakhon Sawan quite by accident. One thing I asked him was how he got on with the other Thai English teachers. His reply was ' we don't speak because they're unable to converse in English.

I wonder how many more there are like this? 

[Thingamabob]

Same experience with my son. The low marking by the teacher is a result of a number of factors ie fear of loss of face, ignorance and puerile stupidity. I just hope your son is not too upset by this. Very tough issue for a youngster to have to deal with.

[chilidog]

 The issue I have seen with the teaching system in the school my daughter goes to is they don't teach the kids to read English only remember vocabulary. I have tried to help her many times to read English. We get to a vocabulary word she doesn't know and I ask her to sound out the word. She could not even sound out the word let alone knew the alphabet letter. So I put her home work aside and started going over the alphabet and sounds. The school is not teaching them to read English only memorize vocabulary words. I am guessing the school looks good if the students can memorize a bunch of words, who cares about reading them properly. Extremely frustrating.

[slappy]

40 minutes ago, Jonnapat said:

I once met an English English teacher in Nakhon Sawan quite by accident. One thing I asked him was how he got on with the other Thai English teachers. His reply was ' we don't speak because they're unable to converse in English.

I wonder how many more there are like this? 

I am in the same boat. 90% of thai english teachers i have met and worked with, have no idea on how to have a English conversation. They hate it, when they see students enjoying and learning conversational English with native speaker. It all boils down to two words JEALOUS and FACE. But the biggest problem is the rote learning. The students are treated as robots and not human beings. Also with the Thai teachers being government officers, they think there are the elite of the elite in thai society

[Curt1591]

10 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

Biggest mistake here is the obsession with grammar, puts the kids right off as it's hard and boring. Mrs often asks me obscure questions on English grammar, never even heard of half of it! They need to learn vocabulary and actually speak, work books on grammar seems to be what most classes consist of.

 

 

Here is a post from the president of a metal detecting club. It demonstrates why the spoken word isn't always enough ...

 

Quote

After today's Club hunt a few of us took off to the beach in late afternoon Seal Beach was so crowded there was no parking at the piers one couple headed for home rest of us went down to Bolsa Chica was it crowded to look like a summer day problem is no he's been at the beach lately so there's nothing there very low tide nothing out there I think between Twyla squeak and Steve maybe a dollar found maybe $2 it's just nothing there yet but we had one hell of a good time got home an hour ago have a nice rest wish I had a green beer but all I got the corona I guess it's going to have to do I hope everybody had a great Saint Patrick's Day and no Twila you can't Pinch Me Again see you later

 

[slappy]

11 minutes ago, chilidog said:

 The issue I have seen with the teaching system in the school my daughter goes to is they don't teach the kids to read English only remember vocabulary. I have tried to help her many times to read English. We get to a vocabulary word she doesn't know and I ask her to sound out the word. She could not even sound out the word let alone knew the alphabet letter. So I put her home work aside and started going over the alphabet and sounds. The school is not teaching them to read English only memorize vocabulary words. I am guessing the school looks good if the students can memorize a bunch of words, who cares about reading them properly. Extremely frustrating.

English phonic's in thai schools are not taught. Because the thai teachers dont know the correct sounds. It's the teachers teacher (university) who are at fault. 

[andy6699]

Sorry, maybe off topic. 
I am not an English speaker and I translate every page into German for easy read. Never a problem then to understand.

But TVF is a very bad translation. I often have problems understanding what they mean.  The sentece structure is not the same other page, forum, blogs etc. 
Does anyone have an idea why that is?

[scorecard]

8 hours ago, Pilotman said:

All about 'face'.  The teachers don't want to loose it in front of a student who is clearly more competent in the language than they are.  It's the teachers that hold back Thailand's education,  as much as the system itself. In the villages and smaller towns, they are often incompetent amateurs of the worst kind. 

Another example: My Thai son started learning Thai and English from day of birth, family policy at home only one language all people in the house only speaking English. In Primary and lower HS he went to good English programs in Bkk and he did the last three years of high school in Singapore, all classes only in English.

 

He returned to BKK to go to uni. His class had an English teacher (girl just turned 18 yo, niece of the uni dean, qualified in nothing). She came to class 1 hr late every lesson day (should be a 2 hr class) with a page ripped from an old exercise book with 4 or 5 sentences, handwritten all in uppercase, no punctuation, girl couldn't hold even simple conversation in English, handout example:

    YESTERDAY I WAS WILL GO TO THE SHOPPING YOU GO YESTERDAY WAS

    ALREADY NOW

 

She sent one of the students to the on campus copy shop, all students got a copy, then she read the first sentence 2 times, no explanation of anything, then the whole class in unison had to read the sentence 2 times, straight to sentence 2, then end of lesson, 'teacher' walked out and went home (early), questions not allowed.

 

My son brought 2 or 3 of these handouts home, he knew well they were valueless, and he asked me to guess what she was trying to say and write my version under the teachers version.

 

He indicated he would take it back to uni and privately give the 'corrected' copies to the teacher. I tried to convince him to just leave it alone, but he was adamant he wanted to help his buddies.

 

He did give the corrected handouts back to the teacher, she went into a rage and took him instantly to her uncle the dean who scolded him severely and said things like 'this cannot be correct, farang cannot speak English' and more (the dean also cannot speak English.)

 

The 'teacher' failed him for English for the next 2 semesters. Then suddenly mass complaints and the 'teacher' instantly disappeared. The dean spoke to the class and made my son stand up and accused my son of being responsible for the fact the class had no English teacher.

 

The students booed, the dean fled.

 

Quickly after the dean disappeared, he was convicted of massive corruption to do with school building funds and did 10 years in jail. 

 

 

 

 

[Pilotman]

20 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Another example: My Thai son started learning Thai and English from day of birth, family policy at home only one language all people in the house only speaking English. In Primary and lower HS he went to good English programs in Bkk and he did the last three years of high school in Singapore, all classes only in English.

 

He returned to BKK to go to uni. His class had an English teacher (girl just turned 18 yo, niece of the uni dean, qualified in nothing). She came to class 1 hr late every lesson day (should be a 2 hr class) with a page ripped from an old exercise book with 4 or 5 sentences, handwritten all in uppercase, no punctuation, girl couldn't hold even simple conversation in English, handout example:

    YESTERDAY I WAS WILL GO TO THE SHOPPING YOU GO YESTERDAY WAS

    ALREADY NOW

 

She sent one of the students to the on campus copy shop, all students got a copy, then she read the first sentence 2 times, no explanation of anything, then the whole class in unison had to read the sentence 2 times, straight to sentence 2, then end of lesson, 'teacher' walked out and went home (early), questions not allowed.

 

My son brought 2 or 3 of these handouts home, he knew well they were valueless, and he asked me to guess what she was trying to say and write my version under the teachers version.

 

He indicated he would take it back to uni and privately give the 'corrected' copies to the teacher. I tried to convince him to just leave it alone, but he was adamant he wanted to help his buddies.

 

He did give the corrected handouts back to the teacher, she went into a rage and took him instantly to her uncle the dean who scolded him severely and said things like 'this cannot be correct, farang cannot speak English' and more (the dean also cannot speak English.)

 

The 'teacher' failed him for English for the next 2 semesters. Then suddenly mass complaints and the 'teacher' instantly disappeared. The dean spoke to the class and made my son stand up and accused my son of being responsible for the fact the class had no English teacher.

 

The students booed, the dean fled.

 

Quickly after the dean disappeared, he was convicted of massive corruption to do with school building funds and did 10 years in jail. 

 

 

 

 

and that's why my daughter is at a UK university.   Uni here is not worthy of the title.  I wish your son well in his future. 

[ripstanley]

3 hours ago, slappy said:

English phonic's in thai schools are not taught. Because the thai teachers dont know the correct sounds. It's the teachers teacher (university) who are at fault. 

So very true. 
I had  a conversion with a Thai who spoke limited English. I asked where he worked. He told me he taught English at  Phayao university. I almost choked on my beer 

[stephen tracy]

I'm inclined to agree with fellow posters here, in that I expect the teacher's English is so poor that he/she could not understand anything your son wrote in English so marked him down. (sorry about the underline here, it wont switch off!)

[samsensam]

15 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

 Yeah, that's the problem, with my kids too. They know how to speak English correctly. So they need to learn it wrong for school. Like a third language.

 

yea, have this problem with thai friend's children - i explain the correct english, tell them at school to do what their teacher wants but at all other times use 'correct' english. they are smart and can see the reasoning.

 

 

[samsensam]

4 hours ago, slappy said:

English phonic's in thai schools are not taught. Because the thai teachers dont know the correct sounds. It's the teachers teacher (university) who are at fault. 

 

not only thai english teachers. i have asked many of my friend's children if there is a phonetic chart on the wall on their classroom wall and/or if they are taught the phonetic alphabet - none have ever heard of it - including those taught by native speaker english 'teachers'.  bizarre.

[scorecard]

6 minutes ago, samsensam said:

 

yea, have this problem with thai friend's children - i explain the correct english, tell them at school to do what their teacher wants but at all other times use 'correct' english. they are smart and can see the reasoning.

 

 

A twist, about 4 years back old dragon Thai English teacher at granddaughters school (not cheap) sent a note home to the parents of all students saying that she was about to change the English classes to a new program 'Thai-English', with some examples of well known Tinglish words / phrases.

 

School head was deluged with angry parents who objected strongly saying I paid for my kid to learn proper English etc. Head quickly send another note saying this was not going to happen, there would be no such program, then about 3 days later another note to say that a new fully qualified and experienced male English teacher, 25 years old (note included several photos of the pleasant looking young man) would take over all English classes within 2 weeks and he did and the kids loved him and parents noticed quickly a big jump in the English capabilities of their kids and noted that the kids were regularly using newly learned English and noted the kids were saying situational English and in full sentences.

 

And the new teacher set up several sessions a week on something like Line video chat for the kids to talk to similar age kids in the UK, always monitored off screen by the new teacher to ensure things were corrected as needed and to keep the sessions rolling, all free. 

 

 

[tifino]

kids should be smart enough to realise they should toe the line, and force themselves to speak 'lubbish' 

(but only when at school)

 

 

the marking method really is much like the Handicapping system in Athletics...

the bitzathis bitzathat half falang kid is always placed as BackMarker

 

 

 

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, tifino said:

kids should be smart enough to realise they should toe the line, and force themselves to speak 'lubbish' 

(but only when at school)

 

 

the marking method really is much like the Handicapping system in Athletics...

the bitzathis bitzathat half falang kid is always placed as BackMarker

 

 

 

The marking method is an interesting point. At my granddaughters school (at Primary and now HS) for subjects like English, Maths and Science the kids use a student number and not their name and all test papers are scored and then re-checked by other teachers. 

 

 

[rct99q]

Got that right. Just the other day I was sitting with a group and said hello. Not one of them understood what I said.

 

Asked them what they did for a living and all responded they were University English teachers.

 

Fell off my bar stool and nearly spilt my beer. 

 

Unless this country gets "real" English teachers it ain't going to grow past the third world crap show it is.

 

Was in Worksop at the time, but hey apples and oranges.

 

 

 

 

[shy coconut]

51 minutes ago, rct99q said:

Got that right. Just the other day I was sitting with a group and said hello. Not one of them understood what I said.

 

Asked them what they did for a living and all responded they were University English teachers.

 

Fell off my bar stool and nearly spilt my beer. 

 

Unless this country gets "real" English teachers it ain't going to grow past the third world crap show it is.

 

Was in Worksop at the time, but hey apples and oranges.

 

 

 

 

They didn't understand "hello" yet when you asked them what they do for a living, they

responded with an appropriate answer.

 

I think you may have had one too many , unless you greeted them in some peculiar local way.

[5633572526]

On 5/10/2019 at 12:01 PM, BritManToo said:

He's only 7, I'm not worried, I'm just laughing at the competence of Thai 'English' teachers.

Had the same problems with my Thai daughter at high school, the teachers marked her down for her ability as a native English speaker.

Don’t know if this applies to your situation but there is a difference between the queens English and American English. I got some of my translations from Thai to English marked wrong when I was taking Thai language class for the spelling differences I.e. Labor (USA spelling) Labour (queens English) 

[Number 6]

20 hours ago, andy6699 said:

Sorry, maybe off topic. 
I am not an English speaker and I translate every page into German for easy read. Never a problem then to understand.

But TVF is a very bad translation. I often have problems understanding what they mean.  The sentece structure is not the same other page, forum, blogs etc. 
Does anyone have an idea why that is?

Most likely due to the all the slang and informality of the writing. On top of that you might have 'Thai words' that confuse the hell out of a translation program. Loads of colloquial patterns. People with poor grammar, syntax, writing quickly, shortcutting ideas leaving the reader with large but well known inferences. Cultural references we L1 users understand but even well educated non English users will miss.

 

[richard_smith237]

On 5/11/2019 at 11:20 AM, Pilotman said:

when our Thai/Brit daughter was born in Udon, we vowed that she would not be 'educated' in Thailand.  I was travelling a great deal then, so we re located to the UK  so that she could be schooled in that system.  She is now just completing her final year at a UK University and we have never regretted that decision.  Her contemporaries and relatives of the same age in her Mums old village are either married with kids, working in a dead end job for peanuts, or farm workers.  She fully appreciates what a lucky escape she had from the sub standard education system here.  

 

.....And anyone with any hope for their Children's future should follow suit or ensure they are educated at a quality international school in Thailand, or at least do the best they can. 

 

 

Unfortunately, the offspring of some will fall foul of their parents lack of care for their education when instead of going to a good international school or going back to their home countries they are instead thrown in a local school. Some kids are just unlucky that their parents don't take advantage of the best opportunities afforded to them.

 

 

[Essex Reject]

As long as he can say 2 pints of lager and a packet of crisps please, he will be fine.

[SheungWan]

On 5/10/2019 at 12:10 PM, batata said:

you worry about a Thai teaching English given the lowest mark to your kid... would waste 5 seconds thinking about it

The reason to worry is that it can affect the student's confidence and future performance.

[SheungWan]

On 5/10/2019 at 12:04 PM, DavisH said:

My son is the same. He prefers studying the English subjects (Math/Sci/Engish language) more than the Thai ones. Thai subjects basically involve regurgitating what is in the book and guessing the correct answer. He doesn't like that. I think he doesn't like their teaching style as well - and that includes many other students, not just him. Thai teachers don't like answering questions, for one thing. The downer s that I will probably have to pay through the nose for him to go to an International program in university. Possibly overseas after that. 

Why keep him there now? Are there no alternative school options?