Brexit legislation needs to include public vote - Labour's Starmer

[rooster59]

Brexit legislation needs to include public vote - Labour's Starmer

 

Labour Party's Shadow Secretary of State for Departing the European Union Keir Starmer is seen outside the Cabinet Office, as uncertainty over Brexit continues, in London, Britain, April 9, 2019. REUTERS/Hannah McKay/Files

 

LONDON (Reuters) - The British government's Brexit Withdrawal Agreement Bill needs to include another public vote when it is presented to lawmakers again next month, the opposition Labour Party's Brexit spokesman Keir Starmer said on Saturday.

 

After failing to get parliament's approval three times for Prime Minister Theresa May's Brexit deal, the government will now put the bill, legislation which will enact that deal, before parliament for a vote in early June.

 

The Labour Party and rebels within May's Conservative Party have said they plan to oppose it.

 

"The government ought to seriously consider putting a public vote on the face of the bill to break the impasse," Starmer told BBC radio.

 

"But what we can't do is just keep on buying another week at a time, which is what the prime minister's been doing for months," he said.

 

May has publicly opposed holding a second public vote.

 

Nearly three years after the United Kingdom voted 52% to 48% in a referendum to leave the EU, it remains unclear how, when or even if the country will leave the European club it joined in 1973. The current deadline to leave is Oct. 31.

 

Brexit talks between May's Conservatives and Labour collapsed on Friday hours after May agreed on Thursday to set out in early June a timetable for her departure.

 

A source in Prime Minister Theresa May's office said on Friday the Withdrawal Agreement Bill would "contain new features" to reflect discussions the government has had with lawmakers over their concerns.

 

Starmer was asked if a no-deal departure from the EU was now looking more likely.

 

"I don't accept that - it's five and a half months to go before the deadline. I don't accept that we can't talk to the EU about further changes to the Political Declaration, I accept the Withdrawal Agreement is a different proposition."

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-05-19

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[GeorgeCross]

sure, as long as any future referendum is for any deal agreed or no deal because the public has already dismissed remain.

 

and if you can't agree a deal beforehand then no deal should be the default.

 

anything else would mean you guys get incentivized to table a bad deal & not do your bl@@dy jobs as mandated

 

 

[wombat]

there has already been one public vote.....3 years ago

[BritManToo]

13 minutes ago, wombat said:

there has already been one public vote.....3 years ago

Yeah, but we didn't make the right vote back then.

I would laugh so hard if they did another vote and even more people voted to leave.

(and I'm betting the politicos won't have another vote because they're scared of that happening too)

[arithai12]

I propose that UK lawmakers are paid not a fixed salary, but a cash bonus only each time they manage to pass some law or agree on a policy.

Similarly the UE politicians should have their salary halved each time they take a decision that contraddicts a previous one.

I think this would speed things up a bit.

[rudi49jr]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Yeah, but we didn't make the right vote back then.

I would laugh so hard if they did another vote and even more people voted to leave.

(and I'm betting the politicos won't have another vote because they're scared of that happening too)

I’m thinking the complete opposite: that May and all the brexiteers are all scared sh*tless of another vote because they know they’re going to loose it this time. Will of the people, my arse.

[blazes]

the end is nigh for the Remainers....long live Leaving....

[grumpy 4680]

       Starmer, sounds German to me ????

[sawadee1947]

Splendid idea since all facts are on the table. 

UK people can choose now really and are not forced to believe what May is telling (or Corbyn, Rees-Mogg or Farage or other (fools))

[sawadee1947]

43 minutes ago, grumpy 4680 said:

       Starmer, sounds German to me ????

And????? What does it mean to you? 

[evadgib]

49 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

Splendid idea since all facts are on the table. 

UK people can choose now really and are not forced to believe what May is telling (or Corbyn, Rees-Mogg or Farage or other (fools))

I knew what I wanted from the onset, still do and am fed up with waiting.

@Stomper; why does this warrant a guffaw?

Edited May 19, 2019 by evadgib

[vogie]

55 minutes ago, grumpy 4680 said:

       Starmer, sounds German to me ????

Starmer is actually old Anglo Saxon.

 

My biggest worry though is that he is the shadow Brexit minister who wants to remain, doesn't inspire much confidence in Labours leaving plans.

[evadgib]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

Starmer is actually old Anglo Saxon.

 

My biggest worry though is that he is the shadow Brexit minister who wants to remain, doesn't inspire much confidence in Labours leaving plans.

He's also a lawyer & couldn't be trusted to run a bath.

[evadgib]

27 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

And????? What does it mean to you? 

Agreed, but many on your side ram Farages dual national kids down our throats in much the same manner.

[hotchilli]

It's been know for decades that politicians don't give  a rats arse about what "the people want"

they do what's best for them or their party or ratings.

The promised "referendum vote" was taken, it was close but a result is a result... the result was to opt-out of the EU... Politicians should have put their personal feelings aside & did what was right by the result... close as it was !

[geoffbezoz]

4 hours ago, blazes said:

the end is nigh for the Remainers....long live Leaving....

I think this sums up yourself and all other Brexiteers ????

 

"Psychosis is an abnormal condition of the mind that results in difficulties determining what is real and what is not.^[4] Symptoms may include false beliefs (delusions) and seeing or hearing things that others do not see or hear (hallucinations)."

[puipuitom]

9 hours ago, GeorgeCross said:

sure, as long as any future referendum is for any deal agreed or no deal because the public has already dismissed remain.

and if you can't agree a deal beforehand then no deal should be the default.

anything else would mean you guys get incentivized to table a bad deal & not do your bl@@dy jobs as mandated

Pity, polls show different.   https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/  

If there was another referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU, how would you vote_ – What UK Thinks_ EU.html

[puipuitom]

8 hours ago, arithai12 said:

I propose that UK lawmakers are paid not a fixed salary, but a cash bonus only each time they manage to pass some law or agree on a policy.

Similarly the UE politicians should have their salary halved each time they take a decision that contraddicts a previous one.

I think this would speed things up a bit.

 "decision that contradicts a previous one "  Which one ? ? Or only Brexit fantasy

[Baerboxer]

5 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

Splendid idea since all facts are on the table. 

UK people can choose now really and are not forced to believe what May is telling (or Corbyn, Rees-Mogg or Farage or other (fools))

 

Totally agree. 

 

Three years after an advisory referendum, and a GE, in which the main parties said they'd implement the advice if in government, they have failed to do so.

 

A lot changes in 3 years. Far more real information is now available, and some have been exposed as liars and hypocrites.

 

People would now be able to vote along the line of leave with no deal, leave with May's deal, leave with Corbyn's proposal, or revoke Article 50 and remain with the current deal. 

 

Understandably people are pissed off with the Westminster politicians; some also blaming the EU. So in such a new referendum there is a danger of a protest vote without due consideration. Cutting ones nose off to spite ones face so to speak.

[puipuitom]

Only one solutuion: 

[Monomial]

11 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

Pity, polls show different.   https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/  

If there was another referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU, how would you vote_ – What UK Thinks_ EU.html 511.28 kB · 0 downloads

You have to be very careful interpreting polls like this.  When you have a public source, like the media, pushing hard to make those who support brexit feel embarassed about their choice, people tend to say they are "undecided". That doesn't mean they are equally likely to choose either option though.

 

The key thing I see from that poll is that only 42% are strongly convinced remain is the proper choice, and that is even with all the scare tactics being levelled by the mainstream media. I suspect what this poll really means is that absolutely nothing has changed since the original vote, and if held again, leave would still win by a small margin.  And as for polls, it is likely they would still be embarrased to admit how they were voting, right up until the curtain was closed and the decision was forced upon them.

 

My opinion: everyone would be so much better off if those who wish to remain in the EU would try to understand why half the UK is willing to risk economic destruction in order to get out, and then actually trying to fix the problems, rather than just calling them "stupid".

 

[Monomial]

5 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Totally agree. 

 

Three years after an advisory referendum, and a GE, in which the main parties said they'd implement the advice if in government, they have failed to do so.

 

A lot changes in 3 years. Far more real information is now available, and some have been exposed as liars and hypocrites.

 

People would now be able to vote along the line of leave with no deal, leave with May's deal, leave with Corbyn's proposal, or revoke Article 50 and remain with the current deal. 

 

Understandably people are pissed off with the Westminster politicians; some also blaming the EU. So in such a new referendum there is a danger of a protest vote without due consideration. Cutting ones nose off to spite ones face so to speak.

 

None of those options would get 50% of the vote. So then what do you do?  Whoever decides the voting rules then gets to influence the option chosen.  Anything beyond leave/don't leave gets very messy and arguably unfair.

 

 

[puipuitom]

1 hour ago, Monomial said:

My opinion: everyone would be so much better off if those who wish to remain in the EU would try to understand why half the UK is willing to risk economic destruction in order to get out, and then actually trying to fix the problems, rather than just calling them "stupid".

Maybe, because in 2016 many had a complete different understanding - seen what all poleticians told them - what a "Leave" in reality would have as consequences.

like: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/may/18/uk-based-poles-call-for-revolt-against-having-to-apply-for-settled-status?utm_term=RWRpdG9yaWFsX0d1YXJkaWFuVG9kYXlVS19XZWVrZW5kLTE5MDUxOA%3D%3D&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUK&CMP=GTUK_email 

For instance: good luck to line up for a Schengen visa in case you want to visit the EU (+roaming costs smart phone, medical treatment, car Insurance etc) ...and a lot of problems seen import - export to-from the EU. No member of all work done now together ( EFSA, RASFF, EMA etc) what the UK with 65 mln inhabitants now has to do on their own.

How many were aware of all these ? 

[stevenl]

5 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

Maybe, because in 2016 many had a complete different understanding - seen what all poleticians told them - what a "Leave" in reality would have as consequences.

like: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/may/18/uk-based-poles-call-for-revolt-against-having-to-apply-for-settled-status?utm_term=RWRpdG9yaWFsX0d1YXJkaWFuVG9kYXlVS19XZWVrZW5kLTE5MDUxOA%3D%3D&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUK&CMP=GTUK_email 

For instance: good luck to line up for a Schengen visa in case you want to visit the EU (+roaming costs smart phone, medical treatment, car Insurance etc) ...and a lot of problems seen import - export to-from the EU. No member of all work done now together ( EFSA, RASFF, EMA etc) what the UK with 65 mln inhabitants now has to do on their own.

How many were aware of all these ? 

Agree with your post, but really don't understand this talk about requirement for Schengen visa.

In the past I could go to UK without visa, passport was sufficient, and e.g. also USA citizens can travel to Schengen states without visa.

Why would it be different for Brits?

[Basil B]

Problem is Labour is not speaking with one voice...

 

Starmer says this, Corbyn says something different, then Watson says something else, then add Abbott, McDonnall, Thornbury, uncle Tom Cobley and all to the mix, no two singing from the same hymebook.

 

 

[elliss]

9 hours ago, grumpy 4680 said:

       Starmer, sounds German to me ????

 

 Keir ,   completely wrong , ref Keir Hardie ,  one of the original socialist ...

     Fyi, soon to be the next Labour  Leader , and PM .  asap 

        

 

 

[elliss]

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

Agree with your post, but really don't understand this talk about requirement for Schengen visa.

In the past I could go to UK without visa, passport was sufficient, and e.g. also USA citizens can travel to Schengen states without visa.

Why would it be different for Brits?

 

 May i humbly suggest , you  return to the our beloved UK  as a refugee , with your family .

 

 

[elliss]

2 hours ago, puipuitom said:

 

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

 

 

2 hours ago, puipuitom said:

 

 

 Lets deduct , Con man , spin doctor Farage ,,   salary and pension ,from the EU club .    Red bus really ,  blue bus ,Tory sure ..555

Edited May 19, 2019 by elliss

[stevenl]

7 hours ago, elliss said:

 

 May i humbly suggest , you  return to the our beloved UK  as a refugee , with your family .

 

 

Huh?

[brewsterbudgen]

Another referendum seems to upset Brexiteers, so far better would be to revoke Article 50 and hold a General Election. That would force the main two parties to make their policy on Brexit clear.

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