Brexit brings down May, Johnson stakes leadership claim

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, jesimps said:

The only deal we need with the EU is one that we negotiate after we leave on WTO terms. The result of the EU elections tmw will prove this.

Why would you let one deal run out, then have no deal and lots of headache and then start to make a new deal.

Isn't it much better to make a new deal in time before the old deal expires?

 

It's like living on an island and you have a food supplier who brings your fresh foo every day. And you know that supplier's contract runs out in a couple of months. What do you do? Renew the deal or make another deal before the existing deal runs out? Or wait until the deal is finished and discover the next day: Where is my food? What a surprise, the contact run out. Maybe I should make a new contract. Why didn't I think about that months ago?

[sawadee1947]

56 minutes ago, sotsira said:

May's deal meant we would have left the EU in name only!

That's why people weren't happy about it.

That's why it was rejected 3 times in Parliament.

That's why she has had to finally resign.

May's deal wasn't her deal, it was Juncker's deal dictating

to May what is to be agreed.

 

Only way to leave is on WTO or a free trade deal with no ties 

to the custom union, and no Irish border backstop.

Otherwise it's not what leave means. 

Exactly, a clean cut is impossible. Who believes this believes in Santa Claus and Virgin Maria. 

There will be always a close connection between UK and EU. Trade reasons. EU is the biggest market for UK. 

[sawadee1947]

Just now, sawadee1947 said:

May's deal wasn't her deal, it was Juncker's deal dictating

to May what is to be agreed.

What a nonsense! 

It was a deal between 2 parties. 

[sawadee1947]

2 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

That's why it was rejected 3 times in Parliament.

What a nonsense! 

It was rejected because of the agreed back stop. 

[OneMoreFarang]

40 minutes ago, sotsira said:

Leave without a deal, and then renegotiate on a level platform

How many people live in the UK? How many in the EU?

How exactly do your imagine that level platform?

And you can be pretty sure they EU will be a lot nicer than the USA, China and other BIG trading partners.

[sawadee1947]

4 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Why would you let one deal run out, then have no deal and lots of headache and then start to make a new deal.

Isn't it much better to make a new deal in time before the old deal expires?

 

It's like living on an island and you have a food supplier who brings your fresh foo every day. And you know that supplier's contract runs out in a couple of months. What do you do? Renew the deal or make another deal before the existing deal runs out? Or wait until the deal is finished and discover the next day: Where is my food? What a surprise, the contact run out. Maybe I should make a new contract. Why didn't I think about that months ago?

What a nonsense! 

You cannot (allowed) start for new deals before you have left EU. 

[OneMoreFarang]

4 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

8 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

That's why it was rejected 3 times in Parliament.

What a nonsense! 

It was rejected because of the agreed back stop. 

It was rejected by many people for many different reasons. It would be easy if all would have rejected it for the same reason but that is not what happend. If the deal would be changed a little to the left then the right would complain (more). And if it would be changed to the right then the left would complain (more). Result: No majority for anything.

[OneMoreFarang]

5 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

What a nonsense! 

You cannot (allowed) start for new deals before you have left EU. 

You are allowed to make a new deal with the EU, your biggest trading partner. And May tried to make such a deal and her own party rejected it. 

[sawadee1947]

6 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

You are allowed to make a new deal with the EU, your biggest trading partner. And May tried to make such a deal and her own party rejected it. 

Hahaha, a new deal After having left EU, 

[Nigel Garvie]

53 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Boris is amusing, he's the likeable pub drunk who gives everyone a good laugh now and then.  Leader of the country though?  In these bizarre times, anything is possible.

Well as I heard said recently, we have now had two of the worst PMs in British History, one after the other, and the chances of a hat trick look very high. One of the many problems with Boris is that he is not just a lier, but a casual off the cuff lier. Like Trump, for him the truth is an irritating inconvenience. 

 

That's what we may well get, a watered down Trump with a thin veneer of class, not real class, just all the pathetic trappings of a private school education attached to a buffoon. 

[dunroaming]

35 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

Sure, but it's just a rivalty and game between those guys. Nothing serious. More a sham and shame business 

Nothing serious for them maybe but it outed a British PM not once but now twice and has brought chaos to the country and threatens the economic future of our children.

[cyril sneer]

most worrying part is if the tories and brexit parties are divided

 

imagine corbyn being pm

[Emdog]

Dear all the "leave means leave" friends: you do have a deal, a treaty, the one that ended "the troubles", to have no hard border in Ireland.  Going to leave that as it is? Would be smuggler's paradise possibly. Or cede all of N Ireland to the rest? Or conquer S Ireland?

Not a minor issue, not something to be fixed with WTO rules

And the "mandate" of the vote isn't all that overwhelming. Get 100 folks together and divide 51 -49, mill about and try to guess which is bigger...

I'm not European, no big dog in this fight

[Krataiboy]

2 hours ago, alanrchase said:

May's deal meant we would have left the EU. People didn't seem too happy with that.
Apparently "leave" does not mean the same thing to all people. Even a group of leavers failed to agree on a statement a few months back. "Leave means leave" is meaningless.
 

 

It never was "May's deal". The EU designed the Withdrawl Treaty to keep us tied to their apron strings indefinitely. Remainer-wolf-in-Leave-clothing May's job was to run the clock down and sleepwalk us into accepting it.

 

Mercifully, she failed, in the process wasting three years which could more profitably have been spent as an independent, sovereign, free-trading nation, carving out trade deals with an impatiently waiting world.

 

Better late than never. May's replacement must be committed Brexiteer determined to demand a far better deal than vassalage on offer - or take us out on WTO terms. And the sooner the better.

[Briggsy]

5 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

It never was "May's deal". The EU designed the Withdrawl Treaty to keep us tied to their apron strings indefinitely. Remainer-wolf-in-Leave-clothing May's job was to run the clock down and sleepwalk us into accepting it.

 

Mercifully, she failed, in the process wasting three years which could more profitably have been spent as an independent, sovereign, free-trading nation, carving out trade deals with an impatiently waiting world.

 

Better late than never. May's replacement must be committed Brexiteer determined to demand a far better deal than vassalage on offer - or take us out on WTO terms. And the sooner the better.

Great analysis.

[Thingamabob]

3 hours ago, Basil B said:

And he will still be waiting on November the first... If he is still PM by then, or even an MP.

Rubbish.

[Thingamabob]

2 hours ago, natway09 said:

To put it bluntly, Cameron left May a can of worms which she worked very hard & opened (secured a deal) the can.

The chicken farm (House of Commons) should all be ashamed that they did not leave with this deal & the country will regret it.

The article mentioned a "cleaner deal" " meaning Just Leave?

Why take 2 months to elect a new PM,,,,, typical British procrastination should be one week!!

Why do they still hang on the this "we will make the EU renegotiate" ? Don't they understand that the negotiations are done, the EU are sick of the yak yak

Rubbish. May is a hopeless negotiator, and generally incompetent. Just look at her record.

[Thingamabob]

I would go for Boris Johnson and/or Esther McVey. 

[Thingamabob]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

What exactly did the people vote for? Brexit = Leaving the EU, that's about it. And then?

The EU and UK are neighbors and that won't change. People will travel between the countries. Goods will be sold and bought - at lot of them. All this needs some kind of regulations.

I.e. If a UK citizen wants to make holiday in Spain, what will be the necessary documents? Will that UK citizen be treated exactly like someone from Timbuktu? Or should he have special rights? What will happen if that UK citizen needs hospital treatment in the EU? Who pays? Does the patient have to pay up front?

These are just some minor issues. I am sure there are many thousand small issues like this. With the EU they are regulated. With May's withdrawal agreement they are regulated. And without agreement many issues are not regulated. I guess that means if a UK or a Timbuktu citizen needs medical treatment within the EU then they better pay cash up front.

Above is obviously just an example but you should get the idea: There is no such thing as just leave. It shouldn't be too difficult to understand that it's not that easy.

Just leave, whatever the cost. It will not be easy, but with guts and hard work it will be good for Britain in the long run.

[Thingamabob]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Why would you let one deal run out, then have no deal and lots of headache and then start to make a new deal.

Isn't it much better to make a new deal in time before the old deal expires?

 

It's like living on an island and you have a food supplier who brings your fresh foo every day. And you know that supplier's contract runs out in a couple of months. What do you do? Renew the deal or make another deal before the existing deal runs out? Or wait until the deal is finished and discover the next day: Where is my food? What a surprise, the contact run out. Maybe I should make a new contract. Why didn't I think about that months ago?

Tedious and silly response.

[puipuitom]

3 hours ago, jesimps said:

Compromise? Give the people what they voted for and won. Brexit. No one could've blamed May if she'd acted on the wishes of the people. However, she tried to compromise and look where it got her.

Which Brexit ? In the Hosue of Commons they could not come to an agreement.

"the wishes of the people " Which part: the overwhelming landslide 51,88% for any kind off a Brexit or the total unimportant 48,11% for only one option: "remain" ?

 

Oh wait… British democracy = the one with the most e.g. 20,01 % and 4 others 20% = you get the seat and the 4 others nothing. Get half+1 of these "village seats" together and.. you are the government and can do what you want.

[puipuitom]

3 hours ago, sotsira said:

For whatever their reasons were, they all still voted to leave.

What part of "leave" is so difficult to understand?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/may/18/uk-based-poles-call-for-revolt-against-having-to-apply-for-settled-status?utm_term=RWRpdG9yaWFsX0d1YXJkaWFuVG9kYXlVS19XZWVrZW5kLTE5MDUxOA%3D%3D&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUK&CMP=GTUK_email

[Jane Dough]

Any new leader is doomed. The conservative party is doomed. The only way for the country not to be doomed is for a leader to be elected who reverses the madness that is Brexit. They will still be doomed but the country will at least be saved. 

 

Brexit was the single most ridiculous move chosen by the British people since democracy began. Someone with guts needs to stand up to the idiocy of the people. Well, some of the people. 

 

Rooster

[puipuitom]

3 hours ago, sotsira said:

May's deal meant we would have left the EU in name only!

That's why people weren't happy about it.

That's why it was rejected 3 times in Parliament.

That's why she has had to finally resign.

May's deal wasn't her deal, it was Juncker's deal dictating

to May what is to be agreed.

 

Only way to leave is on WTO or a free trade deal with no ties 

to the custom union, and no Irish border backstop.

Otherwise it's not what leave means. 

Why YOU, British do NOT want to have the inter-Irish border under YOUR control, and INSIST, we, the EU, cannot have our EU outer-borders under our controle ?

[puipuitom]

3 hours ago, sotsira said:

I can only see this going 2 ways, either revoke article 50

and stay as members of the EU.

Or 

Leave without a deal, and then renegotiate on a level platform

with the EU for a trade deal that works both ways.

They are trying that already for 3 years… Remind: it's the UK who leaves the EU, not the EU who leaves the UK  ( "there is a dense fog in the Channel, the continent is isolated") 

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Jane Dough said:

Any new leader is doomed. The conservative party is doomed. The only way for the country not to be doomed is for a leader to be elected who reverses the madness that is Brexit. They will still be doomed but the country will at least be saved. 

 

Brexit was the single most ridiculous move chosen by the British people since democracy began. Someone with guts needs to stand up to the idiocy of the people. Well, some of the people. 

 

Rooster

Quite the opposite I would have thought, the reason the Tories are doing so badly is because they failed to live up to their promise of leaving the EU, conversely, the reason the Brexit party are doing very nicely thank you very much, is because they want to deliver on Brexit.

[Krataiboy]

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Why would you let one deal run out, then have no deal and lots of headache and then start to make a new deal.

Isn't it much better to make a new deal in time before the old deal expires?

 

It's like living on an island and you have a food supplier who brings your fresh foo every day. And you know that supplier's contract runs out in a couple of months. What do you do? Renew the deal or make another deal before the existing deal runs out? Or wait until the deal is finished and discover the next day: Where is my food? What a surprise, the contact run out. Maybe I should make a new contract. Why didn't I think about that months ago?

Good thinking, batman.

 

May ducking out has put no deal firmly back on the table and given her replacement the leverage needed to make a silk purse out of the sow's ear of a Treaty being foisted on us with her disgraceful connivance.

 

The sooner we get a real Brexiteer in the negotiating saddle the better.

[billd766]

40 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

Why YOU, British do NOT want to have the inter-Irish border under YOUR control, and INSIST, we, the EU, cannot have our EU outer-borders under our controle ?

Because the EU are the ones that want the border.

[evadgib]

49 minutes ago, Jane Dough said:

Any new leader is doomed. The conservative party is doomed. The only way for the country not to be doomed is for a leader to be elected who reverses the madness that is Brexit. They will still be doomed but the country will at least be saved. 

 

Brexit was the single most ridiculous move chosen by the British people since democracy began. Someone with guts needs to stand up to the idiocy of the people. Well, some of the people. 

 

Rooster

So the people who voted out and for Farage last week were 'ficker than us' and don't have guts in their own right?

[Jonnapat]

6 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Can't say I'm a boris fan, but I hope that if he is elected by the tory party he delivers on this statement:

 

"We will leave the EU on Oct. 31, deal or no deal."

 

Of course there is always the possibility that he will subvert this in the same way as May...... (i.e. BRINO) ☹️

I very sincerely hope that you are wrong