PR for retirees, please!

[Jaray]

A retired farang on yearly extensions of stay is not allowed to work. Therefore they cannot apply for Permanent Residency (I believe). Does anyone understand the Thai government's thinking on this, as PR for retirees would give a wonderful 'peace of mind' feeling to see them through to the end of their days? Maybe not starting off at 50 years old but after living in the country for a few years with no 'blemishes' I think it would be a great idea (from an old retiree's point of view!). Anyone agree/disagree?

[Briggsy]

There are other categories under which to apply. But your basic request that they create a new category for those who have had extensions of stay on the basis of retirement for a few years is never going to happen.

 

What should happen is an end to the capricious rule changes and endless, pointless bureaucracy.

[Swiss1960]

Agree 100% with you... but don't expect any Thai immigration official to listen to what farangs would like to have amended...

Sent from my SM-A730F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[baansgr]

Id be quite happy to pay as many probably would...I suppose the Elite is an option but something rather than 90 day reports and re entry permits. One stamp for a lifetime. 

[from the home of CC]

never happen now, too many were caught out scamming the system..

[cerox]

Thailand is a nice country and I like to stay there.

 

But you have to accept that you are always just a temporary visitor / guest there, no matter if you are retired, married, Elite or any other visa. This is why many people do not want many possessions as a visitor to stay flexible.

 

I think if you keep your life simple you can have a good life. But if you buy property, car, lots of stuff you keep worrying about immigration rules and the future in your "home" which it is not, because we are just a visitor.

[KiChakayan]

OP is dreaming, the last thing the Government wants is retirees to stay. By now it should be clear to everyone that the current policy is to make our stay as unpleasant as possible

[Jingthing]

24 minutes ago, KiChakayan said:

OP is dreaming, the last thing the Government wants is retirees to stay. By now it should be clear to everyone that the current policy is to make our stay as unpleasant as possible

More like don't ever feel too comfortably at "home" except if you're quite wealthy and then you can buy that comfort (here or most anywhere). 

[KiChakayan]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

More like don't ever feel too comfortably at "home" except if you're quite wealthy and then you can buy that comfort (here or most anywhere). 

I'd disagree on that, I have no problem meeting their financial requirements but I am still subject to their most stupid requirements for reporting my location whenever I take a piss.

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, KiChakayan said:

I'd disagree on that, I have no problem meeting their financial requirements but I am still subject to their most stupid requirements for reporting my location whenever I take a piss.

I see your point but there are levels. 

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, Jaray said:

A retired farang on yearly extensions of stay is not allowed to work.

If you’re working you’re not retired. Yes you are allowed to work by changing your visa category/reason to stay to work from retirement.

 

 

[david555]

Stop dreaming guy's , with a government as at present they even don't give Thais the rights they are entitled too .

With a stroke of a pen they can change anything given yesterday ….

[Thaidream]

19 minutes ago, elviajero said:

f you’re working you’re not retired. Yes you are allowed to work by changing your visa category/reason to stay to work from retirement.

Yes-quite true and I might add that P/R  each year is open only to 100 people of each Nationality.  If it was allowed for retirees- we would run into the-problem of the quota as  many hundreds would apply.

[onera1961]

The problem with Thailand is that they don't want to learn anything from others. They can simply adopt the Malaysian model (with less money restriction proportion). Does Malaysia require health insurance?

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

never happen now, too many were caught out scamming the system..

The scams are run by and for Immigration's benefit  - not a reason to penalize honest retirees.  But agree it will never happen - the wind is blowing hard in the other direction, and they appear to want to be able to easily rid themselves of most of us quickly, if desired.

[KiChakayan]

29 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

The problem with Thailand is that they don't want to learn anything from others. They can simply adopt the Malaysian model (with less money restriction proportion). Does Malaysia require health insurance?

Actually, the Philipinnes offer residence for retirees with very low requirements (USD 10000 deposit with USD 1000 pension). And even better for people like me who can qualify for "SRRV Courtesy" with a deposit of USD 1500 only.

But I have no idea what life could be like there.

[Jingthing]

Actually, the Philipinnes offer residence for retirees with very low requirements (USD 10000 deposit with USD 1000 pension). And even better for people like me who can qualify for "SRRV Courtesy" with a deposit of USD 1500 only.

But I have no idea what life could be like there.

You're right. It's kind of a conditional residency. You must continue to meet the rules of the program including an annual fee. Not bad at all. But not as good as entering permanent residency status where such compliance rules are ended.

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

[from the home of CC]

16 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The scams are run by and for Immigration's benefit  - not a reason to penalize honest retirees.  But agree it will never happen - the wind is blowing hard in the other direction, and they appear to want to be able to easily rid themselves of most of us quickly, if desired.

I believe they would rather deal with a tourist than an expat. Tourists tend  to drop their money and leave with minimal drama and little complaining. The expat is tolerated but when the bleating gets too loud Thais will definitely weigh the pros and cons.

[300sd]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I see your point but there are levels. 

Yes you are right. When they get down to his level there will be no one left to support him....

[Nowisee]

 

For a few, these and any future changes to immigration requirements are no problem both intellectually and financially.  They love it here and have no desire or reason to leave.   
For some it's an acceptable option because for now it's still sort of a value, no present clearly established alternative and no rush to blow out.

For some it's the catalyst.  Had enough, final straw.  Much nicer places to live and of better value.  Times up here, thank you very much see ya later.

For some it's a no choice option in either direction, pay and stay or have to leave.

 

These changes are precisely why some don't or never committed to living here.   Not that it was a premonition into the future, more just a wait and see approach that took...time.  

 

 

Edited May 28, 2019 by Nowisee

[Peterw42]

OP, there is one of the criteria for PR that is over 50, thai wife and no Thai job/tax requirements. But the knowledgeable guys (UJ etc) say an application in that category wont go through. (maybe its never been tested)

Its frustrating because you can see it written in the criteria.

[Gecko123]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

The scams are run by and for Immigration's benefit  - not a reason to penalize honest retirees.  But agree it will never happen - the wind is blowing hard in the other direction, and they appear to want to be able to easily rid themselves of most of us quickly, if desired.

I'm still very skeptical that all of the recent immigration changes haven't been made in order to drive more expats into the arms of waiting visa agents who in turn pay money under the table to corrupt immigration officials.

 

A visa agent appears to be the nexus for all of the visa financial requirement abuses. Is it even possible to circumvent the financial requirements without a visa agent? And anecdotal reports suggest that even with the more restrictive deposit requirements it's still entirely possible to circumvent them...for the right price.

 

If Thailand is supposedly so determined to stamp out visa fraud, why have they turned such a blind eye to the obvious role which visa agents play in perpetuating this fraud? The only answer I can come up with is because it's too lucrative.

 

This financial motive may explain why PR is never seriously considered as well. The loss of visa agent revenue and unofficial trickle down payoffs to immigration officials may make a PR visa option quite unattractive from the standpoint of "unofficial" revenue.

Edited May 28, 2019 by Gecko123

[JackThompson]

11 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

I believe they would rather deal with a tourist than an expat. Tourists tend  to drop their money and leave with minimal drama and little complaining. The expat is tolerated but when the bleating gets too loud Thais will definitely weigh the pros and cons.

We don't have any power to change anything - tourist or retiree.  They don't hear our bleating or care.  We are not overloading the infrastructure, requiring significant capital spending on road repair (tour buses are heavy), the airport, etc to handle us. 

 

Any of us who is willing to pay them off under the table, is welcome to stay as long as we want.

 

10 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

I'm still very skeptical that all of the recent immigration changes haven't been made in order to drive more expats into the arms of waiting visa agents who in turn pay money under the table to corrupt immigration officials.

...

This financial motive may explain why PR is never seriously considered as well. The loss of visa agent revenue and unofficial trickle down payoffs to immigration officials may make a PR visa option quite unattractive from the standpoint of "unofficial" revenue.

I have no doubt that they made the changes in such a way as not to interfere with the way the agent-system worked and continues to work - by  skipping money-seasoning.  And, as more capital is now required to survive and hold the funds, this change - plus the loss of embassy-letters (upon immigration's initiative at the May 2018 meeting) - many more will certainly be forced into the waiting arms of agents. 

 

The other motive is wanting to get rid those they see as non-wealthy.  This is being done without any concern or consideration of the Thais that benefit from the spending of larger numbers of retired members of the Western middle-class, vs a much smaller sample from the "wealthy" class.  Getting rid of us, while flooding the country with zero-baht tour-bus people, is not going to "upscale" Thailand as a tourist-destination, resulting in HiSos abandoning their their Greek island retirements for Thailand.  But, for a payoff of course, they will overlook your "Non HiSo" status.

 

I think their primary motivation against easier PR, is not allowing foreigners to have a way to "stick around" beyond their perceived usefulness.  I doubt Immigration's concerns are paramount in this, but they would certainly not be a supportive voice.

Edited May 28, 2019 by JackThompson

[Farang99]

12 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

OP, there is one of the criteria for PR that is over 50, thai wife and no Thai job/tax requirements. But the knowledgeable guys (UJ etc) say an application in that category wont go through. (maybe its never been tested)

Its frustrating because you can see it written in the criteria.

I considered trying this, but was told don't bother and save the non-refundable deposit. It will never be granted.

 

[Neeranam]

12 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

A visa agent appears to be the nexus for all of the visa financial requirement abuses. Is it even possible to circumvent the financial requirements without a visa agent? And anecdotal reports suggest that even with the more restrictive deposit requirements it's still entirely possible to circumvent them...for the right price.

 

Any retiree, with years spent here, all the time in the world to learn Thai, will know exactly how to get around this hurdle. For the last ones, unwilling to learn Thai, or hooked up with a partner who doesn't let them doesn't deserve to stay here. Bring on the Thai language test, like the ones other countries have.

[jacko45k]

3 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

You are not married, not working, living in Pattaya and expect permanent residency, 555, on what basis?

Retirement?

Perhaps based on having stayed in country without issues for a long  period maybe something more than a single year permission. 

[jacko45k]

So apparently learning fluent Thai will open up a whole new world of corruption opportunities only available to those special few. Is carping on and on about it obligatory too?

[ThaiBunny]

5 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Is carping on and on about it obligatory too?

Only if you post on TV

[The Man Who Sold the World]

 

 

Just a few questions concerning “Permanent Residence”.

 

Put yourself into the shoes of a Thai politician. Your task is to protect and to satisfy your constituents. Now, a certain portion of your constituents, primarily those who have family with a foreigner, want you to allow “permanent residence”. Arguably, the majority of your constituents just do not care one way or the other. Now, you have another group of constituents who want No Foreigners at all, in their presence. 

 

Now, on a risk versus rewards basis, just why, or what perceived benefit to your career, would be adequate to prompt you to take the risk of championing “Permanent Residence” for foreigners? 

 

And, if in fact, sufficient votes were cast to allow PR, just what criteria would you put in place to protect Thailand and its citizens?

 

Would it require a documented family connection? What happens if the family connection ends?    

Would it require adequate funds? Just how much is adequate?    

Would it require a “clean” police record, and to what level, everyone has committed some infractions in their life?

 

See, Permanent Residence for foreigners, well, this is a can of worms that has little or no upside for establishment.

 

On a personal note, married about 25 years to a Thai citizen who is 5 years younger than me. Upon our retirement she decided she wanted to go home so here we are. Purchased an expensive house in a secure Moo Baan. We are well cashed up with more money than we’ll ever spend. Have expat health insurance greater than USD $1M coverage for both. We are both healthy, both law abiding. We follow any and all regulations. So, there is absolutely No Chance that we would become a “burden” on Thailand or the Thai people. I am a poster boy for a “desirable foreigner” for permanent residence as I’m no risk and will spend a comparatively large sum of money while we live here.      

 

And, yet, all things considered, Permanent Residence which is highly desirable for myself, has similar chances or occurring as does hitting the big lottery. I ain’t holding my breath. 

 

[1FinickyOne]

15 hours ago, onera1961 said:

The problem with Thailand is that they don't want to learn anything from others.

And you want to teach them? They should learn things that benefit you? 

 

Thailand is a sovereign country and they are entitled to make their own laws regarding immigration... You and I may or may not like them, but it is our position to obey them. Can you imagine Mexican refugees trying to tell the USA how to make policy in regards to Mexican refugees and surely a different example from every country...