no longer qualify for retirement, switching to marriage

[burlap]

I went to Bangkok immigration office to get my ninth retirement extension for my visa.  This was the first year I had to document my income - before I just got a form notarized at the US embassy stating my income.

 

They rejected me because they wanted to see 12 monthly (or 24 bi-weekly) deposits in my checking account.  They also wanted these deposits made on the same date, and for the same amount, in other words, what you would expect to see if you were receiving payments from a government pension program.  I was receiving money from rental property, so the money would arrive on different days (usually on the 3rd - the 7th)  and sometimes the amount would vary, for instance sometimes the tenant would pay for a repair and deduct the payment from the rent.  However, the total for the year was over the required amount.  They said they wouldn't accept this.

 

I told them I had applied for Social Security in January, but it might be September before I start receiving payments.  But the first payment would be retroactive to January.  I'm afraid this first 'balloon' payment will be ignored, and I will have to wait until I get 12 'regular' payments before I can apply again. That will be September 2020.

 

So, I'm going to try to get the marriage extension instead.  I plan on opening a new bank account and depositing 400,000 Baht in it.  Then wait a month leave the country and get a new Non-Imm O and return, and after the money has been in the account 3 months apply for my extension.  I have some questions:

 

1. Does the 400,000 Baht have to come from out of the country? (It did, but I'd have a hard time proving it.)
2. Is any special type of bank account required?
3. Am I allowed to use any of this money? Next year I'd like to use my Social Security income to qualify.
4. Where is the easiest place to get a Non-Imm O visa? Hong Kong OK?
5. Do I have to purchase an entry/exit permit to leave (and return) the country?
6. Am I forgetting something?

[arithai12]

Amazing the number of hurdles you had to face for the retirement extension based on income... so much for "leniency". Makes me glad that I use the 800k method. Anyway, I just wanted to suggest that perhaps, if your current extension is still valid for some days, you could avail yourself of an agent and try again? At least ask if they think they can get it for you.

 

[SEtonal]

CW is showing leniency.  In April, a poster received a retirement extension in Bangkok with "three monthly foreign transfers" using the 65k method.

 

 

[ukrules]

2 hours ago, burlap said:

I was receiving money from rental property, so the money would arrive on different days (usually on the 3rd - the 7th)  and sometimes the amount would vary, for instance sometimes the tenant would pay for a repair and deduct the payment from the rent.  However, the total for the year was over the required amount.  They said they wouldn't accept this. 

This appears to be a new development, I guess they pointed out that you can just put 800k in the bank and would prefer this method?

 

I remember reading that these payments must arrive in a Thai account, are you receiving payments into a Thai account every month and they're still refusing the visa?

 

Link to new rules announcement :

 

[UKresonant]

2 hours ago, burlap said:

 

 

They rejected me because they wanted to see 12 monthly (or 24 bi-weekly) deposits in my checking account.  They also wanted these deposits made on the same date, and for the same amount, in other words, what you would expect to see if you were receiving payments from a government pension program.  I was receiving money from rental property, so the money would arrive on different days (usually on the 3rd - the 7th)  and sometimes the amount would vary, for instance sometimes the tenant would pay for a repair and deduct the payment from the rent.  However, the total for the year was over the required amount.  They said they wouldn't accept this.

Even a gov pension is not the same amount each month, it varies as indexation and tax changes are applied. They are asking for the very improbable situation, no common sense. Perhaps they could explain how you were supposed to know of the bank deposit requirement 6 months before it came out...(or maybe not).

Can you not just ask them for the marriage version, as it says average income of 40kTHB? Based on income.

Edited June 6, 2019 by UKresonant

[Puchaiyank]

Your experience personifies the feeling of helplessness when entering the immigration chamber of horrors...

 

There are no immigration rules that I am aware of that says the amount entering your Thai bank each month must "appear" at about the same time each month to " appear" that it comes from a pension...more immigration BS to wade through...

 

Good Luck!

[gk10002000]

Same date is going to be impossible.  Holidays, weekends, and god forbid some sort of agency or bank mistake.  The monthly thing is really nutty and really should be just done for a year or some sort of average.  Even if you tried to setup the transfer yourself, the calendar won't let you do things on the same day as weekends roll through the period.  I guess they might accept transfers earlier than the previous transfer, as long as it is in the proper month?  Who knows? 

 

   But most Thais don't understand and can't imagine a person having investments that maybe pay quarterly dividends, or yearly annuities, etc.  I will get social security in a year or two and it will exceed the 65K baht monthly requirement.  But I have no desire to be paying every month to have that transferred in, and I definitely will not be doing direct deposit to a Thai bank account.  I keep my banking in the USA.  Heck over the years I have had enough issues with direct deposit, delays etc. here in the USA.  Immigration is really deterring me from extending there.  Now planning on just two SETV tourist visas every year, each with a 30 day extension.   Maybe things will settle out or change.   The income crap, the likely medical insurance crap is really getting out of hand.  

[wisperone]

Its a way force people into 800k in the bank. That is what they are working towards.

[GinBoy2]

6 minutes ago, wisperone said:

Its a way force people into 800k in the bank. That is what they are working towards.

I think this is their goal.

 

Make the alternatives so onerous that it forces you into either ฿800K retirement or ฿400K marriage, and I would suspect the retirement option is their favored. option

 

Least amount of work,!

[Orton Rd]

What is the practical reason for needing to keep 400k in the bank forever?

[jacko45k]

5 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

What is the practical reason for needing to keep 400k in the bank forever?

To pay for medical treatment.

[luckyluke]

7 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

What is the practical reason for needing to keep 400k in the bank forever?

Difficult to answer, as many of us,

 

citizens of the other countries than the "famous" 3,

 

don't have to put, or keep, anything in a Thai bank if we use the Letter of Income/Affidavit, issued by our embassy/consulate, for our extension. 

[GinBoy2]

17 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

To pay for medical treatment.

Use that to pay for medical treatment then you don't have the money to renew your extension.

 

They are going to eventually require medical insurance on top of your ฿400/800K required for extension, regardless of visa status

 

Buckle Up boys!

[Orton Rd]

It's dead money you cannot touch unless you leave or die, they are telling us what to do with our own money.

[jacko45k]

10 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

Use that to pay for medical treatment then you don't have the money to renew your extension.

 

They are going to eventually require medical insurance on top of your ฿400/800K required for extension, regardless of visa status

 

Buckle Up boys!

Well it is presumed you can at least cover or pay towards any medical bill. That is Thailand's problem, next year's extension is yours.

There has been no announcement yet of obligatory medical insurance for Extensions. The next movement of the goalposts, maybe!

[luckyluke]

1 minute ago, Orton Rd said:

they are telling us what to do with our own money.

Not to me, and neither to many others. 

So far. 

 

[ubonjoe]

7 hours ago, burlap said:

So, I'm going to try to get the marriage extension instead.  I plan on opening a new bank account and depositing 400,000 Baht in it.  Then wait a month leave the country and get a new Non-Imm O and return, and after the money has been in the account 3 months apply for my extension.  I have some questions:

 

1. Does the 400,000 Baht have to come from out of the country? (It did, but I'd have a hard time proving it.)
2. Is any special type of bank account required?
3. Am I allowed to use any of this money? Next year I'd like to use my Social Security income to qualify.
4. Where is the easiest place to get a Non-Imm O visa? Hong Kong OK?
5. Do I have to purchase an entry/exit permit to leave (and return) the country?
6. Am I forgetting something?

The 400k baht only has to be in the bank in your name only for 2 months to apply for the extension.

1. You can do whatever you want to with the 400k baht after your extension is stamped in your passport. 

2. No

3. For the extension based upon marriage there is no combination option of money in the bank and income.

4. Vientiane and Savannakhet Laos would be the best place to get a single entry non-o visa.

5. After you get the extension would you would need a re-entry permit to keep it valid if you want to travel. 

[pagallim]

I went the same route, changing from Retirement to Marriage extension, last month.   Financially, I was still able to meet the criteria for Retirement, either by bank deposit or monthly transferred income.   I chose to change because of the requirement that I transfer money to meet Immigrations needs rather than bringing in my annual budget at a time of my own preference and advantageous exchange rates.

 

The Marriage route could not have been easier, with my being free to spend any or all of my money immediately after I had submitted the application and still being 'under consideration' for a month (though for prudence kept the balance the same until I had the actual extension in my passport).   Didn't even get the home visit that we were expecting.

 

Personally, I don't believe that the compulsory insurance requirement will happen to Non O extensions.    This will require verification from Immigration Offices, who are unable to verify income from individuals other than through an Embassy Letter.   Hence it will be restricted to visa applications external to Thailand, as in the O-X, and possibly the O-A (I note that the subject has quietly diminished and I suspect forgotten about).

 

Again, and this is obviously a personal opinion, fairly or unfairly, Retirees are seen as low hanging fruit for change, whereas those on Marriage or Dependent extensions, by inference, financial rule changes could impact directly on Thai nationals which may have some political and media backlash.

[jacko45k]

4 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

It's dead money you cannot touch unless you leave or die, they are telling us what to do with our own money.

Nothing stopping you taking it out after any 3 month check if required.  A person could go home for a Non-Imm OA, get an Elte Visa, or a regular Non-Imm O. 

The conflict is it is supposed to be money to live off, but you aren't allowed to live off it. 

[Denim]

Does the 400,000 have to be in a Thai bank or can it be in your home country bank ?

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, Denim said:

Does the 400,000 have to be in a Thai bank or can it be in your home country bank ?

It has to be in a Thai bank in your name only.

[Denim]

4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It has to be in a Thai bank in your name only.

Thanks Ubonjoe. Not a good time to transfer  A large sum from the UK.

 

I hear you can get a multiple entry non O based on marriage from Penang if you can show 400,000.

Does that also mean only a Thai bank is acceptable ?

[jacko45k]

Just now, Denim said:

Thanks Ubonjoe. Not a good time to transfer  A large sum from the UK.

Some offices are prepared to accept a foreign currency deposit account in your name. That way you hold Sterling until you are ready to convert. The amount must be sufficient to cover a potential drop in Baht/Sterling rate.

[rodknock]

what about the fluctuating baht???

it changes all the time

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, Denim said:

I hear you can get a multiple entry non O based on marriage from Penang if you can show 400,000.

Does that also mean only a Thai bank is acceptable ?

You might only get a single entry for the first time you apply at Penang. The equivalent of 400k baht can be in any bank.

At Savannakhet Laos you can get one with no financial proof. Same at the consulate in Ho Chi Minh City.

[Chou Anou]

2 hours ago, wisperone said:

Its a way force people into 800k in the bank. That is what they are working towards.

I believe that by the time I retire to Thailand (7 years from now), the requirement will be 1 million baht in a Thai bank account, non-negotiable. So that's what I'm preparing for.

[Denim]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

You might only get a single entry for the first time you apply at Penang. The equivalent of 400k baht can be in any bank.

At Savannakhet Laos you can get one with no financial proof. Same at the consulate in Ho Chi Minh City.

Thanks again.

[Date Masamune]

Deposits arriving on the same date, for the same amount would be impossible receiving payments from social security or a pension program. 

There are holidays on both ends, exchange rates, "leap year". This office is effectively demanding the 800k deposit method or find an agent.

 

[baansgr]

16 minutes ago, rodknock said:

what about the fluctuating baht???

it changes all the time

Exactly, also my pension payment although due on the last day of the month, is paid early when its a weekend or bank holiday. Not sure how Jomtien will view that next year but saying it has to be the same amount on the same day is impossible to do.

[Gecko123]

3 hours ago, wisperone said:

Its a way force people into 800k in the bank. That is what they are working towards.

I am increasingly convinced that the name of the game is to nitpick any and all applications made by individuals towards the goal of making things so stressful and inconvenient that individuals will use visa agents instead of applying for visas directly on their own. The incentive for doing this is more bribe income from visa agents for allowing them to ply their corrupt trade.

 

Edited June 7, 2019 by Gecko123