More TM.30 questions!

[orientfan]

I have an up to date TM.30 and TM.28 and plan to visit Pattaya next month where I know the hotel will complete a TM.30.

When I return to BKK one day later what are my obligations? Do I have to update my TM.30?

Thanks a lot for any useful advice!

[DrJack54]

Some will say do a tm30.

I would only do tm30 prior to going to imm for something like an extension. Personally if I followed the rules, I would be doing 3 a week. Its crazy.

[ubonjoe]

It is not clear yet if Chaeng Wattana immigration is going to want a new TM30 after a trip within the country or even after leaving and re-entering the country.

[Martyp]

A moderator in another forum asked asked that question twice at CW and got opposite answers. Personally, I plan to only do it for international travel when I get a new departure card when I return. The TM30 form asks for the TM6 number but it doesn’t ask for anything related to domestic travel. If I could submit online though then I might consider doing it for all travel. 

[mtls2005]

I got some feedback from a company, after they met with Imm (Sub Div 2/Div 1 Imm - Bangkok) that was told that, yes, every single movement (within the country, and int'l) resulting in a new overnight location requires a TM30 filing. Needless to say, they were caught off-guard and are trying to figure out how many people they need to hire to fulfill this obligation. Quite a few other shockers that I won't go into here. It may be too early to know how it affects our ability to move about without reporting. For now, plan a TM30 filing before your next Imm activity, assuming you've left the country/returned or possibly been reported by a hotel, hospital, etc.

 

"The TM30 form asks for the TM6 number  but it doesn’t ask for anything related to domestic travel."

 

Under the impression that the existing/current TM6 is required in this situation. That is to say, there is not a 1:1 ratio TM6:TM30.

 

Edited June 7, 2019 by mtls2005

[david555]

Never had a Tm30 , never asked , did lately , address certificate , drivers license renewed 5 years , ret. ext.& re-entry ,….. never asked …..My location Pattaya , most by I.O. jomtien .Almost 11 years in Thailand never ever used an agent

 

some guy's might be looking dodgy maybe ...

Edited June 7, 2019 by david555

[JTXR]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

It is not clear yet if Chaeng Wattana immigration is going to want a new TM30 after a trip within the country or even after leaving and re-entering the country.

I respect your opinion, Joe, but it is clear to me at least.  The day before yesterday, the IO doing my permission to stay extension at CW would not do it until I'd filed a TM30 because my last "movement" in their system was from Bangkok to Krabi for a few days a couple of months ago.  At the B desk, filing the TM30, my wife asked the IO there if a TM30 really needed to be filed after every trip within the country.  She was told yes.  There was a very large crowd around the B section desks, indicating to me that a whole lot of people were being tripped up the by the TM30 thing.

It's a silly rule, and I hope TI changes its current policy, but for the moment I have no doubt I will file a TM30 after every trip, both within the country and outside.  Or at least when I think there is a record of it in the Immigration system (airport arrival or stay in a hotel that asks for passport, etc.)

Edited June 7, 2019 by JTXR

[david555]

4 minutes ago, JTXR said:

I respect your opinion, Joe, but it is clear to me at least.  The day before yesterday, the IO doing my permission to stay extension at CW would not do it until I'd filed a TM30 because my last "movement" in their system was from Bangkok to Krabi for a few days a couple of months ago.  At the B desk, filing the TM30, my wife asked the IO there if a TM30 really needed to be filed after every trip within the country.  She was told yes.  There was a very large crowd around the B section desks, indicating to me that a whole lot of people were being tripped up the by the TM30 thing.

It's a silly rule, and I hope TI changes its current policy, but for the moment I have no doubt I will file a TM30 after every trip, both within the country and outside. 

At I.O. in Pattaya /Jomtien, no need if returning from out of Thailand to reporting address as long you keep same address and you are a Retirement extension holder .

 

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, JTXR said:

The day before yesterday, the IO doing my permission to stay extension at CW would not do it until I'd filed a TM30 because my last "movement" in their system was from Bangkok to Krabi for a few days a couple of months ago. 

I have read so many different requirements people have posted is the reason I wrote it is not clear.

Had you ever filed a TM30 report at Chaeng Wattana before? That seems to be what they are looking for.

[warrima]

I was just at CW yesterday getting my non o extension (2 months). When at L desk they give me the TM30 form and a queue number for B (I had to sort that out before i could get my ext). At B I was fined 800 baht for not updating my address. I asked the officer if i need to update my address every time i travel - giving the example if i went to Pattaya for the weekend. She clearly said yes. She said the hotel will update that im in Pattaya and when i return to Bangkok i must notify them that i have returned to that address. Madness if you continually travel for work or pleasure! They say you can do it online though at the immigration website - they have laminated screenshot printouts at the desk. Anyway paid the fine, queued again to get a receipt, then back to L to get my ext completed. Just made it out before the dreaded lunch break with minutes to spare. 

 

 

[Cuchulainn]

My wife registered online 2 weeks ago to get a TM30 ID User Name & password.

 

Still waiting.????

[Bangkok Basha]

Someone I know was at Chang Wattana today. TM 30 is definitely required, and those applying for Extensions were fined 800 bahts for not having reported within 24 hours of their last arrival, as shown on the TM 6. The fine itself was not the problem, it was the time it took for the two agents in Section B (who are also dealing with 90 day reporting) to fill out the identical paperwork in triplicate (no carbon paper here). In the case of my friend, the process took 2 and a half hours, as the vast majority of those applying for Extensions of Stay did not have a TM 30. On any given day, that number could be in the hundreds. If this sound like chaos, it is. Immigration don't have the personnel to deal with this, and there were a lot of dissatisfied "customers" today. Given the number of expats living in Bangkok alone, and the thousands of them who fly in and out on a daily basis, the new policy is completely unworkable. Does that mean that sanity will prevail? You guess.

[RWPhila]

My last retirement extension was March 17 in Khon Kaen using the 800,00 in-the-bank method.  Entire visit was 20 minutes for extension and multi-reentry permit.  No mention of having to leave the money in the bank and no mention of TM30 even though I had 3 trips to the USA during the past year.

 

My question:  If they start to require the TM30, will they fine for each time it wasn't filed or only for the most recent occurrence? 

[jacko45k]

16 minutes ago, RWPhila said:

My question:  If they start to require the TM30, will they fine for each time it wasn't filed or only for the most recent occurrence? 

Not heard of multiple fines, just seemingly varying amounts from 800 baht to 2000 baht. (If you live in a property in your wife's name there may be a multiple fine for her and you). 

If they say nothing, I say do nothing. Until the fateful day. 

[buick]

20 hours ago, warrima said:

Just made it out before the dreaded lunch break with minutes to spare. 

what time did you arrive in order to make it out before the lunch break ?  i like to arrive at 9am and be out by noon (using L desk).  this was a holiday week (monday holiday) and i always make sure i go at least two days before or after the holiday.  sometimes i'll skip the whole week if the next week is holiday free.  just interested to know your experience (arrival time) on day 3 after the holiday ?

[buick]

the TM30 topic at CW is confusing.  i live in bangkok and i go to buriram once a month and stay in a hotel.  i also make a couple trips outside of thailand each year.  when i asked the B desk officer (about 3 weeks ago) if i needed to file a TM30 every time i return to my apartment, she said 'make sure your TM30 on file shows your apartment address before you visit immigration for your next extension'.

 

the TM30 on file was from the buriram hotel and the B desk officer was not able to see any other history of TM30's on her computer (the one previously filed by my apt mgr was not there). it appears immigration can't tell if you've filed all your TM30's for your travels, only the most recent TM30 is shown.  i'm operating on the premise that i make sure my apartment manager files a TM30 using the online system when i return to my main residence from the last trip i've made before i go to CW for the extension.  for all other trips, i will not bother with it.  we'll see how it goes.

[mojaco]

27 minutes ago, buick said:

the TM30 topic at CW is confusing.  i live in bangkok and i go to buriram once a month and stay in a hotel.  i also make a couple trips outside of thailand each year.  when i asked the B desk officer (about 3 weeks ago) if i needed to file a TM30 every time i return to my apartment, she said 'make sure your TM30 on file shows your apartment address before you visit immigration for your next extension'.

 

the TM30 on file was from the buriram hotel and the B desk officer was not able to see any other history of TM30's on her computer (the one previously filed by my apt mgr was not there). it appears immigration can't tell if you've filed all your TM30's for your travels, only the most recent TM30 is shown.  i'm operating on the premise that i make sure my apartment manager files a TM30 using the online system when i return to my main residence from the last trip i've made before i go to CW for the extension.  for all other trips, i will not bother with it.  we'll see how it goes.

I use the TM30 online system.  When I go to check if my report(s) are actually in their system, I have to tell it which week to look at for previous reports.  So you would have to remember the date (or week) of a particular report you are interested in looking for so that that particular week could be chosen.  I would hope the Immigration access is better than this online system we users can use?

Edited June 8, 2019 by mojaco
formatting

[buick]

2 hours ago, mojaco said:

I use the TM30 online system.  When I go to check if my report(s) are actually in their system, I have to tell it which week to look at for previous reports.  So you would have to remember the date (or week) of a particular report you are interested in looking for so that that particular week could be chosen.  I would hope the Immigration access is better than this online system we users can use?

very interesting.  so an IO could verify that a TM30 was filed after an out of country trip by looking at the entry stamps in your passport (and then searching for that week in the system).

 

but they couldn't verify that one was filed on time when you returned from a trip within thailand (assuming the hotel you stayed in filed a TM30) as they don't know how long you stayed away from your primary residence.  i guess they could call the hotel and check your length of stay if they really wanted the info.

 

i thought it was odd that the IO couldn't see the previous TM30's filed by my apt mgr.  one would assume they would just show up in the order in which they were filed, a pretty standard data base feature.

 

thanks for the addtl info on the system.  my apt mgr is going to love filing the TM30's for the foreigners in my bldg (there are alot of us !!). 

[Chaaang]

Wasted time and money with that TM30 on 6th June. Last year did two extensions on NON-I "O" (marriage), no one asked for it, then did 90 days reports - no one asked for it.

This time... they did...

Was in such a good mood, arrived to CW at 6AM, got number 85, then L4, what a wonderful beginning of a day... and then "Where is your TM30?".

Got a queue number for B-counter. Waited for over an hour, since they are sending every second person coming for the extension there. After a quick chat with a "nice" officer been told that I have to pay 1600 THB fine. Went to A9 window, then waited for A10, then back to B, then back to L, left CW at 2PM...

My wife is the owner of the property, I'm her legal husband, we have two kids and she have to register me as "a foreigner living in your property", that's nonsense.

One year tops here and we are out of Thailand.

We lived in China and UK before, everything was very smooth.

China: you have a visa, your wife and children get visa. Arrive to China, in 7 or 10 days (don't remember now) you have to register in the nearest police station. Passport, rental agreement, visa copies, and you received an analogue of Thai's 90 days report but valid for the duration of your visa. Takes 5-10 minutes.

UK: I'm not British but EU citizen. When I got job there we've collected 10cm tall document pack proving our relationship etc. Got visa in Bangkok, then sent the remaining part by post locally, 45 days and... 5 years of PR sticker in the passport, allowing employment.

Moved to Thailand and... one year and half and sick of everything already.

Edited June 8, 2019 by Chaaang

[tgeezer]

This is all very concerning. If the TM 30 is done by the householder, hotel manager &others. I don’t think that it can apply to me because I am not a householder.  What about travelling to a different province where The Immigration Act requires the visitor to report to the local police within twenty four hours, is that now required? 

[lamyai3]

9 hours ago, RWPhila said:

My question:  If they start to require the TM30, will they fine for each time it wasn't filed or only for the most recent occurrence? 

If they were to take into account all previous offences, the total of my 800 baht fines for not reporting since 1998 would probably now add up to around 500,000 baht. I've heard only of them fining for the most recent offence though. 

[lamyai3]

21 hours ago, Bangkok Basha said:

Given the number of expats living in Bangkok alone, and the thousands of them who fly in and out on a daily basis, the new policy is completely unworkable. Does that mean that sanity will prevail? You guess.

Agree, it's completely unworkable in Bangkok, I think they'll soon collapse under the weight of it if they're unable to implement a simple and user-friendly system (though having to report movements within 24 hours or else be fined is very far from user-friendly, in any sense of the word).

 

Will sanity prevail? When the authorities decided to try and enforce laws that were too over the top or draw too much bad publicity in the past, history has shown that they've often tended to give up on them. Two examples:

 

- In 2008 they tried enforcing the old 180 day rule at land borders, but it was so difficult to implement and took officers' so much time counting up days in the passport that they stopped bothering after a while... then a few years later the law was changed completely.

 

- Not directly immigration related, but a few years ago the authorities took the totally unreasonable view that tourists had to carry their original passport on their person at all times, threatening fines and jail time for not complying. This naturally caused some very unflattering high profile coverage in the foreign media, and it wasn't long before they had to retract and issue national police chief level statements that it had all been a misunderstanding. The TM30 issue affects long stayers rather than the average tourist, but otherwise it seems similarly excessive to the passport law, so I'm curious to see how it pans out.

[DrJack54]

23 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

Agree, it's completely unworkable in Bangkok, I think they'll soon collapse under the weight of it if they're unable to implement a simple and user-friendly system (though having to report movements within 24 hours or else be fined is very far from user-friendly, in any sense of the word).

 

Will sanity prevail? When the authorities decided to try and enforce laws that were too over the top or draw too much bad publicity in the past, history has shown that they've often tended to give up on them. Two examples:

 

- In 2008 they tried enforcing the old 180 day rule at land borders, but it was so difficult to implement and took officers' so much time counting up days in the passport that they stopped bothering after a while... then a few years later the law was changed completely.

 

- Not directly immigration related, but a few years ago the authorities took the totally unreasonable view that tourists had to carry their original passport on their person at all times, threatening fines and jail time for not complying. This naturally caused some very unflattering high profile coverage in the foreign media, and it wasn't long before they had to retract and issue national police chief level statements that it had all been a misunderstanding. The TM30 issue affects long stayers rather than the average tourist, but otherwise it seems similarly excessive to the passport law, so I'm curious to see how it pans out.

I agree with you. Some expats living here just stay in los. Often just stay their own home. Its not a competition rather more what suits you. I type this from Saigon. Back Monday and Friday we fly Phitsanulok. After which Pattaya for music festival. Its basically a travel gig. How many tm30 and tm28 can a person living here be expected to do. Why don't they accept my 50-60usd per year and leave us the f alone. Like many others, same residence for 7 yrs. Why not a "give me a break card" after few yrs of "good guy in". By the letter of the law I would need do perhaps 100+ tm30 per yr. 

Hope CW is ready for that. 

 

[Maestro]

5 hours ago, Chaaang said:

After a quick chat with a "nice" officer been told that I have to pay 1600 THB fine.

Did you get an official receipt for the entire THB 1600?

 

Usually, when an immigration official collects THB 1600, it is

800 for the House-master = tenant plus 

800 for the owner 

and he collects both fines from the person sitting in front of him.

 

Personally, I question the legality of fining two persons for the same transgression.

[ThomasThBKK]

13 minutes ago, Maestro said:

Did you get an official receipt for the entire THB 1600?

 

Usually, when an immigration official collects THB 1600, it is

800 for the House-master = tenant plus 

800 for the owner 

and he collects both fines from the person sitting in front of him.

 

Personally, I question the legality of fining two persons for the same transgression.

 

They love to do this, did you know if your landlord isn't a thai tax residence it's you who has to pay the WITHOLDING TAX for every monthly rent to the tax department?

This can be substantially if the owner is a foreign company... If that get's caught you are liable 50/50 with the actuall landlord whos dodging taxes....

 

If they catch you they fine both of you even tho it's the landlord not paying taxes...

[mtls2005]

18 hours ago, buick said:

i'm operating on the premise that i make sure my apartment manager files a TM30 using the online system when i return to my main residence from the last trip i've made before i go to CW for the extension.  for all other trips, i will not bother with it.  we'll see how it goes.

I've adopted this strategy as well, for now, as have others. Seems like a good balance between practicality, ease of subsequent Imm activities and trying to abide by the "law".

 

16 hours ago, buick said:

so an IO could verify that a TM30 was filed after an out of country trip by looking at the entry stamps in your passport (and then searching for that week in the system).

No indication that IOs are looking for anything other than the TM30 box is checked in your record, and that the address aligns with that which you're using for said activity. I wouldn't Columbo this too much, you'll give yourself a headache.

 

[Johnny Rotten]

As I go away once a month to hotels outside BKK, I would like to send in a TM30 by post upon my return to BKK (that is, if the hotel's staff requested a copy of my passport). Normally I try get my wife to do all the registration procedures.

Question: Do I need the owner's blue book reference no. to write on the TM30 - unfortunately we only have the lease contract, copy of his ID and his name. He has refused to give us the copy of the apartment's blue book.

[mtls2005]

14 minutes ago, Johnny Rotten said:

Question: Do I need the owner's blue book reference no. to write on the TM30 - unfortunately we only have the lease contract, copy of his ID and his name. He has refused to give us the copy of the apartment's blue book.

 Seen some reports of TM30 mail-ins going through without the blue book. Go for it.

[warrima]

On 6/8/2019 at 12:25 PM, buick said:

what time did you arrive in order to make it out before the lunch break ?  i like to arrive at 9am and be out by noon (using L desk).  this was a holiday week (monday holiday) and i always make sure i go at least two days before or after the holiday.  sometimes i'll skip the whole week if the next week is holiday free.  just interested to know your experience (arrival time) on day 3 after the holiday ?

Buick i was there at about 7:50 on Thursday. Got queue number 267 outside. When inside i got L27. I was at L desk by about 9.30 - which was very fast. Basically they were rattling through them because no one had the TM30 done and they were sending everyone over to B. By the time i got the forms filled and queued to pay the fine and queued to get the receipt it was about 11:30. Brought the receipt over to L again and got my passport back at about 5 to 12. I see the L queue was up at L80 by then. My saving grace was getting a queue number for B directly from the officer in L as from what i could see they were sending most back to the queue ticket counter. It was bedlam at B. 

 

My Mrs said yesterday that she overheard another thai lady ask the officer at B (on behalf of her husband) if the TM30 is required after every journey. She said the desk officer initially said no - only when you come back to thailand, but then one of the senior officers overheard and interrupted to say that its required after every single journey. He said the immigration police must always have a valid current address on the system at any particular time. So when i later asked in english myself she said clearly yes - after every trip.  

[mtls2005]

5 minutes ago, warrima said:

one of the senior officers overheard and interrupted to say that its required after every single journey.

"Journey"? As in an international arrival? Domestic trip where you might have been TM30ed by a hotel?

 

6 minutes ago, warrima said:

she said clearly yes - after every trip.  

Again, same questions. Not expecting you to divvy the proper answer, but it would be nice if some sort of guideline were published?