Future Forward determined to end junta’s legacy

[webfact]

Future Forward determined to end junta’s legacy

 

 

The Future Forward party has vowed to press ahead with its intention to do away with, what it deems to be, the legacy of the military junta through legislative means, party secretary-general Piyabutr Saengkanokkul said in his Facebook post Sunday night.

 

He detailed the junta’s legacy as the orders issued by the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO) over the past five years which are deemed to violate human rights, the rule of law or are undemocratic, adding that the party would join forces with iLaw (Internet Law Reform Dialogue), a human rights group specialized in law, in their bid to get rid of these orders.

 

He added that the party would propose, to the House of Representatives, amendments to Section 272 and Section 279 of the Constitution and submit a motion to set up a panel to consider the impacts of the NCPO’s orders.

 

Full story: https://www.thaipbsworld.com/future-forward-determined-to-end-juntas-legacy/

 

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2019-06-24

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[Matzzon]

Good Luck! I wish you all the best. 

[Eric Loh]

Put those coup leaders behind bar, seized their assets and then go after their crony agencies like the NACC and EC for malfeasance. Got make an example of such treasonous act to deter future attempts. 

[ThaiBunny]

Just now, Eric Loh said:

Put those coup leaders behind bar, seized their assets and then go after their crony agencies like the NACC and EC for malfeasance. Got make an example of such treasonous act to deter future attempts. 

How IS life on Fantasy Island?

[geoffbezoz]

1 minute ago, Eric Loh said:

Put those coup leaders behind bar, seized their assets and then go after their crony agencies like the NACC and EC for malfeasance. Got make an example of such treasonous act to deter future attempts. 

But to kill a snake you need to cut its head of first.

[yellowboat]

Too bad the so called "democrats" do not have the integrity of this party.   It never ceases to amaze me how much Thais will undermine each other.  Those with power act shamefully.   We can only hope there are more Thais like these in Thailand.

[Ozman52]

56 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

Too bad the so called "democrats" do not have the integrity of this party.   It never ceases to amaze me how much Thais will undermine each other.  Those with power act shamefully.   We can only hope there are more Thais like these in Thailand.

Your allegation of FFP integrity is founded on nothing. All I see is a lot of slick advertising, even more hot air claims of "we want" and "gunna", a rich boy buying his way into parliament with expectations of becoming PM, excessive political donations by the owner disguised as an illegal loan, and a willingness to cozy up to the criminals of PTP. 

Just which part of that leads to claims of integrity?

[Oziex1]

First of all a certain privileged group need to be relegated to the status of a museum piece, a quaint curio, the source of trivial interest on the covers of women's magazines as they have been in other countries. 

[newatthis]

Their plans maybe good; however a loans debacle [that's still not finalised] will see this party dissolved.

[pornprong]

20 minutes ago, Ozman52 said:

Your allegation of FFP integrity is founded on nothing. All I see is a lot of slick advertising, even more hot air claims of "we want" and "gunna", a rich boy buying his way into parliament with expectations of becoming PM, excessive political donations by the owner disguised as an illegal loan, and a willingness to cozy up to the criminals of PTP. 

Just which part of that leads to claims of integrity?

It is early on, therefore, there is some merit in your doubting of FFP's integrity.

FFP is of course afforded the right of "innocent until proven guilty".

Where there is no need for doubt though, is in judging the junta's integrity - don't you agree?

[Srikcir]

19 hours ago, webfact said:

amendments to Section 272 and Section 279 of the Constitution and submit a motion to set up a panel to consider the impacts of the NCPO’s orders.

The Senate appointments have been accused of violating "conflict of interest" rules and the junta's appointments (vis a vis the junta-appointed Selection Committee) have been argued to be unconstitutional. Some of those appointments are active duty military officers that might owe loyalty to the military chain of command rather than to the Thai people's sovereignty.

 

It would follow therefore, that the tradition (or implicitly mandatory?) appointment of an active duty military officer as Minister of Defense is a further conflict of interest, especially if the government or the NLA is occupied by military opposition parties. When the Cabinet draws the fiscal year budget plan for the military, how can it be said that the military officer who is also the Minister of Defense can be impartial, especially if the ruling government coalition is a military opposition coalition?

 

As such, no constitutional amendment should be required for change. Instead what about legislation that the Minister of Defense must be a civilian? The minister may be a retired military officer after five years of retirement but must demonstrate no current direct commercial or contractual relationship with the military. It would be interesting to see the current pro-military MP coalition in the NLA argue against such legislation. To do so may seem to support the idea that the military is independently sovereign outside of the bounds of the Thai Constitution (as twelve successfully endorsed military coups seem to indicate).

[Ozman52]

36 minutes ago, pornprong said:

It is early on, therefore, there is some merit in your doubting of FFP's integrity.

FFP is of course afforded the right of "innocent until proven guilty".

Where there is no need for doubt though, is in judging the junta's integrity - don't you agree?

He was making a comparison to the the Democrats, but yes, you may assume that an unknown quantity may be better that one far from perfect. You can also compare far from perfect to what went before it which was considerably worse, and note that your unknown quantity is prepared to ignore that past performance in its own quest for power.

 

However early you may think it is, murky party financing, a new boy expecting to be PM, and the willingness to give control back to PTP don't seem like virtues of the innocent.

[Centrum]

2 hours ago, Oziex1 said:

First of all a certain privileged group need to be relegated to the status of a museum piece, a quaint curio, the source of trivial interest on the covers of women's magazines as they have been in other countries. 

I think he's referring to those dear little old ladies with their piled up hairdos and their squat little bodies squeezed into pink silk twin sets.

[sjaak327]

Your allegation of FFP integrity is founded on nothing. All I see is a lot of slick advertising, even more hot air claims of "we want" and "gunna", a rich boy buying his way into parliament with expectations of becoming PM, excessive political donations by the owner disguised as an illegal loan, and a willingness to cozy up to the criminals of PTP. 

Just which part of that leads to claims of integrity?

Hmm shoot the messenger, because you cannot possibly refute the message. Speaking of criminals, look no further than the PM. He would be jailed for a very long time in most sane countries on this planet, that much is absolutely certain.

 

Sent from my SM-J730F using Tapatalk

 

 

 

[yellowboat]

2 hours ago, Ozman52 said:

Your allegation of FFP integrity is founded on nothing. All I see is a lot of slick advertising, even more hot air claims of "we want" and "gunna", a rich boy buying his way into parliament with expectations of becoming PM, excessive political donations by the owner disguised as an illegal loan, and a willingness to cozy up to the criminals of PTP. 

Just which part of that leads to claims of integrity?

Criminals are far easier to deal with than those who believe in their divine right.  When there is a lack civility and justice, sadly people have few choices.  Criminals are the ones who have the intestinal fortitude to stand up to tyrants.  

 

Both parties you denigrate showed they were willing to do anything for a Thailand free of bungling, military rule.  That to me is more than a claim on integrity but action.  Action that the shameful military leaders of Thailand do not understand.  

[300sd]

Yes and unfortunately it is also vise-versa. 

[Mavideol]

wishful thinking, let's see how far they will let him go before a new story (about him or his family) comes out

[pornprong]

2 hours ago, Ozman52 said:

He was making a comparison to the the Democrats, but yes, you may assume that an unknown quantity may be better that one far from perfect. You can also compare far from perfect to what went before it which was considerably worse, and note that your unknown quantity is prepared to ignore that past performance in its own quest for power.

 

However early you may think it is, murky party financing, a new boy expecting to be PM, and the willingness to give control back to PTP don't seem like virtues of the innocent.

You've certainly got your dancing shoes on.

 

1. Unkown quantity......FFP has done nothing to date that brings into question their integrity. Nothing. They may do so in the future, but as of yet, they are as pure as the driven snow. Have you any facts that suggest otherwise?

 

2. To state that an "unknown quantity" maybe worse than a known one, when it is clear that the known quantity is as bad as it gets. Your claim here is akin to opting to play Russian roulette with a revolver in which all 6 chambers contain a live round instead of opting for the gun with just one round in one chamber and that round is very likely a blank. Choosing certain death of almost certain survival, it's a novel approach, not sure it ends well though.

 

3. Far from perfect.....they are indeed, as far from perfect as it is possible to get, meaning every other option, including the historical ones, are better by far. I understand your need to portray Thaksin as the devil in order to justify your political views without shame, but that game just looks farcical when it's Thanathorn your defaming.

 

4. The Junta makes the less than angelic Thaksin appear nothing but angelic. There is not a single metric where the Junta is not by far the greater evildoer than the elected governments that preceded them. Not one. For example, I don't recall soldiers visiting schools to inspect flower arrangements or visiting singing Frenchmen and forcing them to sign pre-written apologies under Thaksin, do you?

 

5. Murky party financing.....nothing murky at all. The Junta, in bid to win an election despite its unpopularity restricted all political activities until very close to the election date, FFP, being a new party was loaned 100 million baht by its founder simply because there was no time to establish an entirely new party under such restrictions - all very clear and not at all murky. The PPRP's Chinese banquet however, murky, murky, murky. 600 million baht raised in a single night - that is 6 times the amount of the FFP loan.

 

One of the legal questions relates to “how Cabinet ministers and civil servants were able to afford seats at an extravagant fundraising dinner run by the pro-junta Phalang Pracharat Party on Wednesday.” Well, maybe not how they could afford tables but where the money came from. In addition, the “law on political parties prohibits state agencies from giving them donations of any kind or participating in their activities.”

The palang pracharat party and the junta needs to “explain” how tables that cost Bt3 million each “were reserved in the names of the Finance Ministry and state agencies including the Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT).” Twenty tables were reserved for the Finance Ministry (60 million baht) and three for TAT (9 million baht), meaning that just these two state agencies poured 69 million baht into the junta’s political party.

 

6. FFP is willing to form a coalition with any party that supports ending military involvement in politics and re-writing the constitution to be democratic - both stipulations score an eleven out of ten on the virtue scale. 

 

My suspicion, upon reading your comments, is that you are somewhat one-eyed and fact averse when it comes to supporting the Junta against the growing parliamentary democracy movement, not sure there is much future in that no matter how things eventuate.

 

Edited June 25, 2019 by pornprong

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, Ozman52 said:

He was making a comparison to the the Democrats, but yes, you may assume that an unknown quantity may be better that one far from perfect. You can also compare far from perfect to what went before it which was considerably worse, and note that your unknown quantity is prepared to ignore that past performance in its own quest for power.

 

However early you may think it is, murky party financing, a new boy expecting to be PM, and the willingness to give control back to PTP don't seem like virtues of the innocent.

 

 

Personally I have no time whatever for PT and their scaly folks.

 

However given the full current real situation I accept FF joining with them to form a bigger opposition (power through numbers).

 

Yes there has been suggestion that Khun Thanatorn is part of the paymasters machine, but I haven't seen anything that proves that  point, in fact if you look at Khun Thanathorn's history profile, which is extensive (he's not rich boy sitting at home), he's been actively involved in civil society groups / activities to get a better quality of life for Thais and much more for many years, he's lived / studied abroad in many countries and from that he clearly has a more worldly approach and attitude. He can use that to help him develop policies which are better for the development of Thailand, policies and actions in regard to fair justice for all etc.

 

But of course time will tell.

 

Given time will PT come to dominate FF, or the reverse?

 

Well that's wait and see. But I'm prepared to put my money on FF at the moment.

 

On the other hand I do wish that Khun Thanathorn, his lawyer buddy and their members would be more careful in regard to 'loans to the party' etc.  

 

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2019 by scorecard

[Eligius]

2 hours ago, pornprong said:

You've certainly got your dancing shoes on.

 

1. Unkown quantity......FFP has done nothing to date that brings into question their integrity. Nothing. They may do so in the future, but as of yet, they are as pure as the driven snow. Have you any facts that suggest otherwise?

 

2. To state that an "unknown quantity" maybe worse than a known one, when it is clear that the known quantity is as bad as it gets. Your claim here is akin to opting to play Russian roulette with a revolver in which all 6 chambers contain a live round instead of opting for the gun with just one round in one chamber and that round is very likely a blank. Choosing certain death of almost certain survival, it's a novel approach, not sure it ends well though.

 

3. Far from perfect.....they are indeed, as far from perfect as it is possible to get, meaning every other option, including the historical ones, are better by far. I understand your need to portray Thaksin as the devil in order to justify your political views without shame, but that game just looks farcical when it's Thanathorn your defaming.

 

4. The Junta makes the less than angelic Thaksin appear nothing but angelic. There is not a single metric where the Junta is not by far the greater evildoer than the elected governments that preceded them. Not one. For example, I don't recall soldiers visiting schools to inspect flower arrangements or visiting singing Frenchmen and forcing them to sign pre-written apologies under Thaksin, do you?

 

5. Murky party financing.....nothing murky at all. The Junta, in bid to win an election despite its unpopularity restricted all political activities until very close to the election date, FFP, being a new party was loaned 100 million baht by its founder simply because there was no time to establish an entirely new party under such restrictions - all very clear and not at all murky. The PPRP's Chinese banquet however, murky, murky, murky. 600 million baht raised in a single night - that is 6 times the amount of the FFP loan.

 

One of the legal questions relates to “how Cabinet ministers and civil servants were able to afford seats at an extravagant fundraising dinner run by the pro-junta Phalang Pracharat Party on Wednesday.” Well, maybe not how they could afford tables but where the money came from. In addition, the “law on political parties prohibits state agencies from giving them donations of any kind or participating in their activities.”

The palang pracharat party and the junta needs to “explain” how tables that cost Bt3 million each “were reserved in the names of the Finance Ministry and state agencies including the Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT).” Twenty tables were reserved for the Finance Ministry (60 million baht) and three for TAT (9 million baht), meaning that just these two state agencies poured 69 million baht into the junta’s political party.

 

6. FFP is willing to form a coalition with any party that supports ending military involvement in politics and re-writing the constitution to be democratic - both stipulations score an eleven out of ten on the virtue scale. 

 

My suspicion, upon reading your comments, is that you are somewhat one-eyed and fact averse when it comes to supporting the Junta against the growing parliamentary democracy movement, not sure there is much future in that no matter how things eventuate.

 

One of the best, most hard-hitting posts (above) I've read here in a long while. Well stated, Pornprong!

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

On the other hand I do wish that Khun Thanathorn, his lawyer buddy and their members would be more careful in regard to 'loans to the party' etc.  

 

The loan is a non starter. The EC has not decided whether there are sufficient legal grounds for the court consideration. The EC based the case on Article 62 of the Party Organic Act which define sources of party revenues. They could not find anything referring to loan. 

 

The share case case has been accepted by the constitutional court. I feel that will not fly either as it has a domino effect on other cases involving many parties including PPRP.

 

Thanathorn is most vulnerable with the Computer Crime Act regarding his media criticism of the NCPO. Also 112 for his alleged association with political activism. These cases can go anyway depending on how desperate the junta are to silence him. 

[DrTuner]

6 hours ago, Ozman52 said:

Your allegation of FFP integrity is founded on nothing. All I see is a lot of slick advertising, even more hot air claims of "we want" and "gunna", a rich boy buying his way into parliament with expectations of becoming PM, excessive political donations by the owner disguised as an illegal loan, and a willingness to cozy up to the criminals of PTP. 

Just which part of that leads to claims of integrity?

So far they haven't at least jumped on the junta train, so it's "on parole until proven guilty" for now. It's Thailand so I'd bet 99.9999% chance of them meekly putting their snouts in the same trough sooner or later.

[Ozman52]

3 hours ago, pornprong said:

You've certainly got your dancing shoes on.

 

1. Unkown quantity......FFP has done nothing to date that brings into question their integrity. Nothing. They may do so in the future, but as of yet, they are as pure as the driven snow. Have you any facts that suggest otherwise?

 

2. To state that an "unknown quantity" maybe worse than a known one, when it is clear that the known quantity is as bad as it gets. Your claim here is akin to opting to play Russian roulette with a revolver in which all 6 chambers contain a live round instead of opting for the gun with just one round in one chamber and that round is very likely a blank. Choosing certain death of almost certain survival, it's a novel approach, not sure it ends well though.

 

3. Far from perfect.....they are indeed, as far from perfect as it is possible to get, meaning every other option, including the historical ones, are better by far. I understand your need to portray Thaksin as the devil in order to justify your political views without shame, but that game just looks farcical when it's Thanathorn your defaming.

 

4. The Junta makes the less than angelic Thaksin appear nothing but angelic. There is not a single metric where the Junta is not by far the greater evildoer than the elected governments that preceded them. Not one. For example, I don't recall soldiers visiting schools to inspect flower arrangements or visiting singing Frenchmen and forcing them to sign pre-written apologies under Thaksin, do you?

 

5. Murky party financing.....nothing murky at all. The Junta, in bid to win an election despite its unpopularity restricted all political activities until very close to the election date, FFP, being a new party was loaned 100 million baht by its founder simply because there was no time to establish an entirely new party under such restrictions - all very clear and not at all murky. The PPRP's Chinese banquet however, murky, murky, murky. 600 million baht raised in a single night - that is 6 times the amount of the FFP loan.

 

One of the legal questions relates to “how Cabinet ministers and civil servants were able to afford seats at an extravagant fundraising dinner run by the pro-junta Phalang Pracharat Party on Wednesday.” Well, maybe not how they could afford tables but where the money came from. In addition, the “law on political parties prohibits state agencies from giving them donations of any kind or participating in their activities.”

The palang pracharat party and the junta needs to “explain” how tables that cost Bt3 million each “were reserved in the names of the Finance Ministry and state agencies including the Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT).” Twenty tables were reserved for the Finance Ministry (60 million baht) and three for TAT (9 million baht), meaning that just these two state agencies poured 69 million baht into the junta’s political party.

 

6. FFP is willing to form a coalition with any party that supports ending military involvement in politics and re-writing the constitution to be democratic - both stipulations score an eleven out of ten on the virtue scale. 

 

My suspicion, upon reading your comments, is that you are somewhat one-eyed and fact averse when it comes to supporting the Junta against the growing parliamentary democracy movement, not sure there is much future in that no matter how things eventuate.

 

1/ You are right, they have done nothing which makes claims of integrity presumptuous. That is what I questioned.

2/ Learn to read. "..... yes, you may assume that an unknown quantity may be better that one far from perfect." is what I wrote.

3/ I defamed no-one. You may not like what I wrote, but seem unable to prove any of it false.

4/ Your views of the relative value of the junta and PTP are at opposite ends of the spectrum. I regard grand scale theft from the public purse as reprehensible, it seems you are willing to condone it, in the name of "democracy". 

5/ Why bring up a strawman? Why not stick to the subject, how FFP was financed? Despite EL's glossover, it is likely to be a problem for Thanatorn, but why shouldn't rich people be able to bypass political donation laws if it suits your agenda?

6/ Other parties, including the Democrats, have better memories. Lie down with dogs, expect fleas.

 

My suspicion is that you support democracy when it suits you, otherwise you might pay more respect to the party that got the most votes and formed a coalition government.

[lipflipper]

The constant stupidity of that Forward Forward party is astounding. They actually think they will make a difference and that the voters will forget that they are nothing more than a mouthpiece for Thaksin. Just because their leader has a family who are mega rich that is going is going to be enough to sway voters? Aligning themselves with the Pheu Thai party had to be one one of the dumbest moves any new political party could have made given the amomosity against anything Thaksin.

Sent from my CMR-AL19 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[sammieuk1]

On ‎6‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 3:32 PM, geoffbezoz said:

But to kill a snake you need to cut its head of first.

Especially general medusa ????

[Eric Loh]

13 minutes ago, Ozman52 said:

Despite EL's glossover, it is likely to be a problem for Thanatorn, but why shouldn't rich people be able to bypass political donation laws if it suits your agenda?

Nice try with some self indulgence. The last time the EC talk about the loan case was on 23rd May. It has now been over a month and they have yet to present to the court. Unless you have some inside information, the case not going anywhere. For goodness sake, the loan was in the accounts of FFP; the party not hiding anything. The junta thru their proxy EC is on a fishing trip and trying to find something to serve the junta's agenda. 

[pornprong]

3 hours ago, Ozman52 said:

1/ You are right, they have done nothing which makes claims of integrity presumptuous. That is what I questioned.

Is it not the default position to assume innocence/integrity until given a reason not to? It is bewildering that you hold it against FFP that they may, at some unspecified time in the future, act without integrity whilst simultaneously ignoring that right now, at this very moment in time, the Junta actually is without integrity. 

 

Quote

2/ Learn to read. "..... yes, you may assume that an unknown quantity may be better that one far from perfect." is what I wrote.

Yet you are still throwing your lot in with the "far from perfect" option.

Beguiling.

 

Quote

3/ I defamed no-one. You may not like what I wrote, but seem unable to prove any of it false.

Is it not the responsibility of the accuser to prove guilt? Innocent until proven guilty is a concept that you really are struggling to comprehend. Regurgitating propaganda convinces no one bar fools and Trump voters.

 

Quote

4/ Your views of the relative value of the junta and PTP are at opposite ends of the spectrum. I regard grand scale theft from the public purse as reprehensible, it seems you are willing to condone it, in the name of "democracy". 

I believe the grand scale theft of the citizens sovereignty supersedes the, by Thai standards, garden variety graft that occurred under previous elected governments.

 

I also call bullshit on your claim to finding corruption of the public purse reprehensible - you clearly support a regime that is easily the most corrupt of the last 20 years and has been using its unchecked power not to reduce corruption, but to further enable it.

 

https://theaseanpost.com/article/corruption-and-after-ncpo-0

 

Quote

5/ Why bring up a strawman? Why not stick to the subject, how FFP was financed? Despite EL's glossover, it is likely to be a problem for Thanatorn, but why shouldn't rich people be able to bypass political donation laws if it suits your agenda?

You have incorrectly referred to facts as "a strawman". It is not a secret how FFP was financed, the money came from Thanathorn, it is on the record, always has been. How was PPRP financed? Nobody knows. Again you condemn FFP for something that you are willing to give the PPRP a free pass for. The double standard is ridiculous. The PPRP has worse form on party financing than FFP, it is a clear fact, the cognitive dissonance required to think otherwise is breathtaking.

 

Due to regulations, Palang Pracharath had to publicly release records within a month of the fundraiser. In late January, the party released records accounting for 90 million baht raised at the dinner. The records revealed that most of the donations were either from recipients of government concessions (such as airport duty-free conglomerate King Power) or government contractors.

 

What poses a greater risk to democracy - the founder of a political party openly self funding the party or unknown entities that profit from government contracts funding a political party behind the scenes?

 

By the way, the Chinese banquet raised 600 million, 510 million of it still remains unexplained.

 

Quote

6/ Other parties, including the Democrats, have better memories. Lie down with dogs, expect fleas.

Democrats are surely suffering now from their past bed partners. It would appear the only Democrat who learned anything from previous experience is Abhisit, their former leader who preferred to quit the party rather than lie down with the dogs again.

 

Quote

My suspicion is that you support democracy when it suits you, otherwise you might pay more respect to the party that got the most votes and formed a coalition government.

You think that PPRP have a mandate from the election to govern Thailand?

 

If so, then it's probably best that before questioning the veracity of my support for democracy, your first port of call should be a quick refresher course on both what democracy is and what exactly took place in Thailand on the 24th of March for they are clearly not the same thing.

Edited June 25, 2019 by pornprong

[chama]

If the Thais are thinking any where close to the way the respondents of this forum are then the "elected" leadership is going to have a hard time keeping a coalition together long enough to show their intent, although I have to agree what the junta has done in the past is not a great cause for optimism. 

[scorecard]

4 hours ago, lipflipper said:

The constant stupidity of that Forward Forward party is astounding. They actually think they will make a difference and that the voters will forget that they are nothing more than a mouthpiece for Thaksin. Just because their leader has a family who are mega rich that is going is going to be enough to sway voters? Aligning themselves with the Pheu Thai party had to be one one of the dumbest moves any new political party could have made given the amomosity against anything Thaksin.

Sent from my CMR-AL19 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 I doubt some of your points:

 

- You say '...they are nothing more than a mouthpiece for Thaksin.' Well you make a firm statement, please give some firm evidence.

 

- You say '...Just because their leader has a family who are mega rich that is going is going to be enough to sway voters?  Talk to some uni students who are starting to some thinking, from the discussions I've had they are NOT thinking he's great because he comes from a rich family, because their key words nowadays are 'REAL CHANGE' and most of them know what real change they want.

 

 - You say '... Aligning themselves with the Pheu Thai party had to be one one of the dumbest moves any new political party could have made given the amomosity against anything Thaksin.' Read post # 19.

[baboon]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

 I doubt some of your points:

 

- You say '...they are nothing more than a mouthpiece for Thaksin.' Well you make a firm statement, please give some firm evidence.

 

- You say '...Just because their leader has a family who are mega rich that is going is going to be enough to sway voters?  Talk to some uni students who are starting to some thinking, from the discussions I've had they are NOT thinking he's great because he comes from a rich family, because their key words nowadays are 'REAL CHANGE' and most of them know what real change they want.

 

 - You say '... Aligning themselves with the Pheu Thai party had to be one one of the dumbest moves any new political party could have made given the amomosity against anything Thaksin.' Read post # 19.

But YOU forget that it is 2019.

Don't like the facts or don't know what they are? Simple, make up your own and scream them from the rooftops. When caught out, double down and double down again if need be. As long as you shout loudly enough, it seems to work...