Denied tourist visa at Vientiane - new rule 1x per year

[NoshowJones]

14 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Throwing money away suggests getting absolutely nothing for it. Five years of living here without other requirements, is what you are buying.

 

Somewhat similar to paying an agent.

You are still contributing to the Thai economy. OK not throwing your money away, giving it away.

[FritsSikkink]

2 hours ago, Caldera said:

Where's the false pretense, since the consular officer who decides if the visa is issued can see your visa, entry and exit history in your passport?

This is the reason that these "tourists" change their passport frequently

[lkv]

1 minute ago, jacko45k said:

Actually not. I will do a TM30 when I am required to. Didn't seem to be a problem from 1979 to 2009!

Many things did not seem to be a problem for me from 2011 to 2014, then problems gradually started to pop up.

[FritsSikkink]

2 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

<deleted>.

 

I have a tourist visa, a thai elite visa, which is well - just a tourist visa.

 

I also have a tax id and i pay millions of baht in taxes every year from dividends and other investments. 

 

You are making stuff up, both is totally not connected. and no i dont do any active work in this hole.

Talking about making things up, An elite visa is NOT a tourist visa.

[jacko45k]

6 minutes ago, lkv said:

Also, you risk being fined 5,000 baht every time you exit your house. To put it in perspective.

Cite me one case of a person being fined multiple times, 5000 baht. Most I hear is 800 baht fines, some times an Expat and wife (owner) get fined 2000 each. I have been told NOT required and will go along with that until it changes.

[JamJar]

24 minutes ago, Sujo said:

A little off topic but a question.

 

I live in malaysia but travel every 2 months to Thailand for around a week at a time. Visa exempt on arrival. Im australian.

 

Been doing this for a few years. Just wondering if I may now get some hassles due to the amount of visits I make.

 

No. Your trips fit into the pattern of a holidaymaker for them. 

[jacko45k]

4 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

You are still contributing to the Thai economy.

A selfish way of looking at it. I am paying for food, drinks, transport etc etc as I would in any other country. Doesn't obligate them to give me freedom to reside. 

[jacko45k]

3 minutes ago, lkv said:

Many things did not seem to be a problem for me from 2011 to 2014, then problems gradually started to pop up.

Yes, they have started to turn some screws tighter. But until that particular requirement is imposed at my IO, I have decided not to fret over it.

[lkv]

6 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Cite me one case of a person being fined multiple times, 5000 baht. Most I hear is 800 baht fines, some times an Expat and wife (owner) get fined 2000 each. I have been told NOT required and will go along with that until it changes.

As I said again, the fact that you did not see it in the past does not mean it will not happen in the future. The situation is volatile nowadays, you get surprises every day from Immigration.

 

I can also give you examples of people being told one thing by one IO in an Immigration office, then one month later a totally different thing by another IO in the same Immigration office.

[Briggsy]

4 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Talking about making things up, An elite visa is NOT a tourist visa.

It is a tourist visa according to the legislative basis under which it is issued. Just a very expensive one that gives a year's permission to stay per entry. All the rules about 90-day reporting, overstay and TM30 reporting still apply.

[jacko45k]

Just now, lkv said:

As I said again, the fact that you did not see it in the past does not mean it will not happen in the future. The situation is volatile nowadays, you get surprises every day from Immigration.

 

I can also give you examples of people being told one thing by one IO in an Immigration office, then one month later a totally different thing by another IO in teh same Immigration office.

Nor does it mean it will happen, and I can't worry about maybes and Chinese whispers.  The insurance rumour could be included in that. What has the variation of IO's interpretation to do with my TM30 requirements?

[lkv]

1 minute ago, jacko45k said:

What has the variation of IO's interpretation to do with my TM30 requirements?

Today they tell you "no need", next week they change the story. You tell them "but you told me something else last week", and they will smile.

 

Or they knock at your door asking for TM30.

 

You think I'm joking? They have done exactly that in a condo in Bangkok.

 

 

[Zikomat]

14 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

A selfish way of looking at it. I am paying for food, drinks, transport etc etc as I would in any other country. Doesn't obligate them to give me freedom to reside. 

It is not about obligation. They could make North Korea from Thailand only if they wish. It is about Thai government's rationale. In my opinion - there is no serious difference between short and long time visitors behaviour in Thailand. Both spend their money in Thailand while having ZERO privileges from the country. Both are making Thailand richer. And individually - long stayers are contributing more money than those visiting for a couple of weeks. But why the former are greeted and taken care of while the latter are pressed to leave ?

[NoshowJones]

7 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

A selfish way of looking at it. I am paying for food, drinks, transport etc etc as I would in any other country. Doesn't obligate them to give me freedom to reside. 

If people are law abiding, buy houses and cars etc, and take whole families out of poverty, and bring money into the country regularly, then why shouldn't they be allowed the freedom to reside, without all the unnecessary hassle they are given?

[lamyai3]

23 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Actually not. I will do a TM30 when I am required to. Didn't seem to be a problem from 1979 to 2009!

Actually wasn't a problem in Bangkok from 1979 to 2019, until a couple of months ago. 

[jacko45k]

7 minutes ago, lkv said:

Today they tell you "no need", next week they change the story. You tell them "but you told me something else last week", and they will smile.

 

Or they knock at your door asking for TM30.

 

You think I'm joking? They have done exactly that in a condo in Bangkok.

 

 

If I am told I need one when I apply for my next extension, I will comply. If my online 90 day report is not working, I will go to the office and enquire why.

 

My door isn't in Bangkok, that example was more about illegal renting of condos. .

[jacko45k]

9 minutes ago, Zikomat said:

But why the former are greeted and taken care of while the latter are pressed to leave ?

Because they are illegally residing in Thailand?

[Zikomat]

Just now, jacko45k said:

Because they are illegally residing in Thailand?

I personally did not stay illegally in Thailand for a single day. But if I stay on 4 tourist visas for a year period - does it mean I stay illegally? Does it mean I have criminal or illegal intentions? What is the rationale behind refusing me another tourist visa?

[jacko45k]

9 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

If people are law abiding, buy houses and cars etc, and take whole families out of poverty, and bring money into the country regularly, then why shouldn't they be allowed the freedom to reside, without all the unnecessary hassle they are given?

Thailand decides not and it is their choice, Thailand for Thais. USA doesn't give such recompense or rights, nor most other countries. My hassle is a couple of days a year preparing and submitting extension application, and 2 minutes 4 times/year doing on-line 90 day reporting. Buying and registering a vehicle is more onerous.

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, Zikomat said:

I personally did not stay illegally in Thailand for a single day. But if I stay on 4 tourist visas for a year period - does it mean I stay illegally? Does it mean I have criminal or illegal intentions? What is the rationale behind refusing me another tourist visa?

It is a difficult one but if you are not truly a tourist, then yes. You are using the wrong vehicle to stay in Thailand. You don't present a driving licence when asked for a TV licence.

[Zikomat]

1 minute ago, jacko45k said:

It is a difficult one but if you are not truly a tourist, then yes. You are using the wrong vehicle to stay in Thailand. You don't present a driving licence when asked for a TV licence.

Definition found on google:

 

tour·ist

/ˈto͝orəst/

1. 1.

   a person who is traveling or visiting a place for pleasure.

    

   ----

    

   This describes myself perfectly. Yes, I am here for pleasure.

[jacko45k]

2 minutes ago, Zikomat said:

Definition found on google:

 

tour·ist

/ˈto͝orəst/

1. 1.

   a person who is traveling or visiting a place for pleasure.

    

   ----

    

   This describes myself perfectly. Yes, I am here for pleasure.

Well, if you live in one place in Thailand you have stopped travelling, and are staying not visiting. Visitors, like house guests, should go home sometime. Semantics of course, but if a person is in a place for more than half the year, he is living there, a resident. Ask a tax man!

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, jacko45k said:

Well, if you live in one place in Thailand you have stopped travelling, and are staying not visiting. Visitors, like house guests, should go home sometime. Semantics of course, but if a person is in a place for more than half the year, he is living there, a resident. Ask a tax man!

People on tourist visas  cannot stay for more than 90 days 

[StayinThailand2much]

36 minutes ago, Zikomat said:

Both are making Thailand richer. And individually - long stayers are contributing more money than those visiting for a couple of weeks. But why the former are greeted and taken care of while the latter are pressed to leave ?

Easy: cause Chinese visitors have their government behind them, that pressures Thailand when there are accidents, or Chinese citizens are treated poorly. Western governments/embassies care sh*t about their citizens being mistreated in Thailand. - All foreigners living long-term in Thailand (any nationality) need to organise and build a lobby, otherwise Thais can trample on our human rights and mistreat us whenever they want...

[BritTim]

14 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Well, if you live in one place in Thailand you have stopped travelling, and are staying not visiting. Visitors, like house guests, should go home sometime. Semantics of course, but if a person is in a place for more than half the year, he is living there, a resident. Ask a tax man!

That argument is often advanced, but I do not see why tax rules define who is and is not a tourist. If I am enjoying Thailand for 179 days, I am apparently a genuine tourist, but doing exactly the same for an extra day makes me somehow a threat to Thailand's national security. The definition used up until a few years ago seems to me more sensible: visiting Thailand for the period allowed by the permission to stay without working illegally. If you leave and return, still enjoying Thailand without illegally working, why are you breaking some unwritten rule because your tax liabilities might change?

[GeorgeCross]

4 minutes ago, StayinThailand2much said:

Easy: cause Chinese visitors have their government behind them, that pressures Thailand when there are accidents, or Chinese citizens are treated poorly. Western governments/embassies care sh*t about their citizens being mistreated in Thailand. - All foreigners living long-term in Thailand (any nationality) need to organise and build a lobby, otherwise Thais can trample on our human rights and mistreat us whenever they want...

 

brilliant idea, where do i sign up to your lobby?

 

 

[StayinThailand2much]

16 minutes ago, sanemax said:

People on tourist visas  cannot stay for more than 90 days 

True. Due to current visa regulations I am out of the country a lot. During that time I spend more money in Australia, New Zealand, Vietnam, etc. than I spend the rest of the year in Thailand. - Well done, Thailand!

[StayinThailand2much]

1 minute ago, GeorgeCross said:

 

brilliant idea, where do i sign up to your lobby?

 

 

Any minority in a foreign country has one. Should TV members get together and establish a Society for the Rights of Foreigners in Thailand (or so)? Absolutely!

[Caine]

They don’t want Falangs there, they’re the biggest racist little shits on the planet. And the hoteliers, restaurant and bar owners wonder why they have been deserted. Sooner the country collapses the better reap what you sow.

[Lashay]

Well if Vientiane really is limiting people to one TV a year can see a few things happening.

 

Most immediate will be huge drop of visitors to Vientiane,, so large income loss there (both at embassy and town), would not want to be Thai consul/ambassador there as lot of people are going to be very pissed at them. Can see many hotels and bars going up for sale soon.

 

A non obvious side effect  will be drop in Thai arrivals/tourist numbers as they have been counting visa runners in those stats.

 

The language schools in Thailand will see a boost in enrollments (and prices going up)...until they start cracking down on them again (which they will).

 

Visa run companys will start shutting down and a lot of Filipino hotel staff will have to leave thailand (if been to VT over last few years easy to see they  account for about 40% of people getting TVs)

 

Over next 6 to 12 months will be sharp  drop in under 50s staying in Thailand, even if they can afford the schools many don't want the hassle unless its a pure visa mill.

 

A plus side effect is they really will get rid of all the young people really working low end jobs (there are a lot in places like Phuket and the smaller Islands) or the just surviving DN's up north as they will not be able to afford the ED route.

 

Will be small increase of elite sign ups  but only a small one. Most people who are willing to pay 500000 already did,

 

Many others  can afford it but  feel need to be sure they are staying for 5 years to know getting value for money and people that are that sure are few and far between.

 

 If they really want to boost revenue from elite only way now would be a no frills 1 year version at aprox 100k. (And if you cannot afford 100k a year you really are not bringing much benefit to Thailand anyway).

 

If they don't change elite or remove age restriction on "retirement" visas or come up with some type foreign sourced income visa can foresee a 50 to 80% drop in long stay foriegners under 50 (excluding teachers) over next two years, with bulk of the remaining 20% concentrated around BKK working for multinationals.