52 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Source to counter following and claim re elderly?

 

https://www.asylumineurope.org/reports/country/germany/statistics

This is bonkers. On your link, the list of possible countries where these guys are coming from does not even list Libya/Morrocco/Tunisia. It only has Somalia, Eritrea and Nigeria as possible African countries. There is nowhere to input the vast majority of North African economic migrants that pay these people smugglers that this topic is about.

 I have another issue with your link. It states a rejection rate - 27 or 50% I don't understand the layout. But, there is nowhere that says how many of these rejects were actually physically deported.

 Sorry but this link, and the purposeful limitations it seemingly contains, is exactly the sort of thing that irks Europeans when it comes to migration. Honesty is needed. First and foremost.

 

 

6 hours ago, jany123 said:

What do you mean by “it may seem heartless”? It is 100% heartless, no ifs, buts or maybe about it.

 

but that aside ( as your morales are your own) can you provide a link to the claim that it’s illegal for commercial shipping to rescue people in distress at sea.... because I can find no such law, and would counter that it’s illegal not to rescue lives at risk at sea, and to then deliver them to a safe place (for those suggesting they be taken back to Libya etc... a safe place typically means not returning them to their point of origin)

 

things are not perfect, but there are laws in place, which should be adhered too.... and yes, perhaps these laws need to be changed. 

 

look at Israel as a near perfect example of mishandling a refugee crisis. refugees have always been an issue, and it’s common sense that it always will be an issue.... and this issue certainly needs a shed load of thought before the US create another refugee crisis in Iran.

rescuing life at sea was agreed upon with  shipwrecks of other vessels in mind. Not as a premeditated way to put yourself in danger on purpose, so ships have to come to your rescue: most ships now either avoid this part of the MEd, or just sail on, and rightly so: they buttered their own toast.

 

As to Israel: to me is is a perfect example of how to deal properly with a migrant-crisis. It is impossible to take in all migrants that hammer at the gate, and Israel does the same as people in an already full lifeboat: they keep others clinging to the sides from climbing in, so as not to sink.

 

 

41 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

This is bonkers. On your link, the list of possible countries where these guys are coming from does not even list Libya/Morrocco/Tunisia. It only has Somalia, Eritrea and Nigeria as possible African countries. There is nowhere to input the vast majority of North African economic migrants that pay these people smugglers that this topic is about.

 I have another issue with your link. It states a rejection rate - 27 or 50% I don't understand the layout. But, there is nowhere that says how many of these rejects were actually physically deported.

 Sorry but this link, and the purposeful limitations it seemingly contains, is exactly the sort of thing that irks Europeans when it comes to migration. Honesty is needed. First and foremost.

 

 

Again why can't you do some of your own research e.g. number of deportations from Germany can be gained from reports, plus the challenges the German government faces with deportations. Making an assumption I would guess unknown nationalities covers some of your concerns. 

 

Some other stuff gained within a few minutes...

 

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Asylum_statistics

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunisian_diaspora

 

https://www.giz.de/en/worldwide/34167.html

 

https://www.thelocal.de/20181008/germany-steps-up-migrant-deportations-to-north-africa

 

https://www.unhcr.org/en-au/libya.html

 

https://reliefweb.int/report/tunisia/unhcr-tunisia-factsheet-march-2018

 

https://www.unhcr.org/en-au/libya.html

 

So before commenting further do your own research rather than alleging conspiracies which is so - boring.

25 minutes ago, Bullie said:

rescuing life at sea was agreed upon with  shipwrecks of other vessels in mind. Not as a premeditated way to put yourself in danger on purpose, so ships have to come to your rescue: most ships now either avoid this part of the MEd, or just sail on, and rightly so: they buttered their own toast.

 

As to Israel: to me is is a perfect example of how to deal properly with a migrant-crisis. It is impossible to take in all migrants that hammer at the gate, and Israel does the same as people in an already full lifeboat: they keep others clinging to the sides from climbing in, so as not to sink.

 

 

Yes.. well... understanding the origin and intent of rescuing life at sea, does not equate to ignoring people in distress because... what... they are slipping through a loophole.

 

Are you 100% behind closing all loopholes? I’m not sure I am.... lol... and I’m damn certain that the hogs would vomit back into the trough, if someone campaigned on that.

 

And... could you really sail past someone drowning at sea, as you appear to be claiming that it’s the right thing to do? Personally, I’d spit on a ships master who admitted to doing that... well... maybe not spit, but you get my drift.... disrespect... throw a milkshake maybe.

 

Also,  you completely missed my point about Israel. Israel is a state that was set up after WW2, by the allied powers, to resettle displaced Jews by stealing land from another country, which has created a 70 years plus crisis in the Middle East, with the resultant real threat of another world war... I do not call that a perfect example of anything other than what not to do.... (as in don’t steal parts of... say.... Mauritania... to resettle Mexicans or whomever)

7 hours ago, roobaa01 said:

1. italian hero dr.salvini lega nord has received a public mandate to keep illegal social burden out of the country, eurpean election 34 %

 

2. sea captain and crew are criminal human traffickers , who hopefully will be trialed in italy. they violated italian law which prohibits any vessel with illegals to enter italian waters without italian permission. international maritime law requests illegals to be returned to nearest ports marocco or tunisia.

 

wbr

roobaa01

34% is not a mandate.

 

Courts decide guilt, not arresting officers or internet barristers. 

 

11 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

34% is not a mandate.

 

Courts decide guilt, not arresting officers or internet barristers. 

 

Actually, courts decide guilt according to the law. If parliament ( or equivalent ) change the law, some crimes will be crimes no longer. ????

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Actually, courts decide guilt according to the law. If parliament ( or equivalent ) change the law, some crimes will be crimes no longer. ????

And no court has yet decided any guilt here.

 

 

22 hours ago, Pilotman said:

you had better be glad that the USA keeps 'meddling'.  Whenever the US has been in an isolationist mode, the rest of the world suffers, e.g. WW 1 and 2. 

very funny, US are just hypocrites and muck up everything, look at Libya, Iraq they go in with their gung-ho BS then are clueless what to do after they kill everyone - Vietnam?  bay of pigs?  hopeless strutting around like they own our world.

Glad she's been arrested and hope she gets at least 3 years. Impound the boat and sell it/sink it. She thinks she's some sort of Robin Hood?  she's not she's a liberal pc do-gooder who thinks she can blackmail Italy. I wish all these countries would man-up, dont get like weak USA and let all these economic migrants in or your economies will collapse with free health care, schooling etc. 

Tell ya what bob if I see ya out on the water in distress I’ll just pass ya by ok?some of the comments on this thread are just disgusting as a mariner I would never ever leave someone in distress to drown she did the right thing let the authorities sort the migrants out don’t expect mariners to abandon those in destress

Just now, Tug said:

Tell ya what bob if I see ya out on the water in distress I’ll just pass ya by ok?some of the comments on this thread are just disgusting as a mariner I would never ever leave someone in distress to drown she did the right thing let the authorities sort the migrants out don’t expect mariners to abandon those in destress

Tell ya what 'Tug' I would not try and enter a country illegally. That organisation is designed to assist aliens to break the law.

She was ordered not to enter Port and she did so. Would your captain do that 'Tug'?  nah don't think so.

16 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

Tell ya what 'Tug' I would not try and enter a country illegally. That organisation is designed to assist aliens to break the law.

She was ordered not to enter Port and she did so. Would your captain do that 'Tug'?  nah don't think so.

Bs bucko save the people let the authorities sort them out did she pick them up for money?

29 minutes ago, Tug said:

Tell ya what bob if I see ya out on the water in distress I’ll just pass ya by ok?some of the comments on this thread are just disgusting as a mariner I would never ever leave someone in distress to drown she did the right thing let the authorities sort the migrants out don’t expect mariners to abandon those in destress

Except the ship was LOOKING for illegal immigrants to rescue.....

 

Entirely different to another ship/boat on the seas that encountered trouble, and so genuinely needed rescuing for reasons beyond their control.

14 minutes ago, Tug said:

Bs bucko save the people let the authorities sort them out did she pick them up for money?

Yes. The org has been designed to do just that. Go around 'picking up' so they can get more donations from liberal do-gooders. You obviously live in a pc 'bubble' and are not aware of her and her org's role, try doing some research.

https://sea-watch.org/

Sooo looking for people in distress is bad????gotta call the coast guard quick!oh cant the forget the britts or anyone else looking for people in distress!! All search and rescue must stop!!god evil 

Just now, Tug said:

Sooo looking for people in distress is bad????gotta call the coast guard quick!oh cant the forget the britts or anyone else looking for people in distress!! All search and rescue must stop!!god evil 

You twist and turn. Tell ya what why not open your house to a few migrants?

I have saved lives at sea and my beloved Thai wife of 34 yrs is an immigrant we raised our lovely family together I have many Latino friends and own 4 property’s very close to our southern border never had one problem I would certenly be open to fostering some kids if they ever get out of Donald’s kiddie jails hows that bucko

She has taken them onboard a Dutch Flagged vessel that is where they need to go they are on Dutch territory not Italian 

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And no court has yet decided any guilt here.

 

 

very simple the new italian law came only into effect in may 2019.

 

wbr

roobaa01

22 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Except the ship was LOOKING for illegal immigrants to rescue.....

 

Entirely different to another ship/boat on the seas that encountered trouble, and so genuinely needed rescuing for reasons beyond their control.

Yes the vessel was seeking to locate and assist human beings in distress, what's your problem?

 

How many times does it need to be spelt out to you that asylum seekers must first be processed to ascertain their status. Currently for the EU it's somewhere around 37% who are recognised as genuine refugees. Your education process can commence from content provided below.

 

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Asylum_statistics

31 minutes ago, Tug said:

Sooo looking for people in distress is bad????gotta call the coast guard quick!oh cant the forget the britts or anyone else looking for people in distress!! All search and rescue must stop!!god evil 

"The Alarm Phone is not a rescue number, but an alarm number to support rescue operations.

1. Call the coast guard and tell them about your situation of distress.
2. Call the Alarm Phone. We will make sure that your distress call is acted upon.
3. If you are not promptly rescued by the coast guard, call the Alarm Phone again. We will inform humanitarian organisations and public media to put pressure on the rescue services."

included transfer process to Europe

On 6/28/2019 at 6:44 AM, rooster59 said:

Rescue ship's captain accuses European states of abandoning migrants

Obviously the don't want them. Took them some time (30 or so years) before they realized it...

17 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Yes the vessel was seeking to locate and assist human beings in distress, what's your problem?

 

How many times does it need to be spelt out to you that asylum seekers must first be processed to ascertain their status. Currently for the EU it's somewhere around 37% who are recognised as genuine refugees. Your education process can commence from content provided below.

 

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Asylum_statistics

and in the end -  and it's mat matters most -  over 90% of those denied asylum seekers status finally stay .  

46 minutes ago, Tug said:

Sooo looking for people in distress is bad????gotta call the coast guard quick!oh cant the forget the britts or anyone else looking for people in distress!! All search and rescue must stop!!god evil 

"Sooo looking for people in distress is bad????"

 

Yes - when they are actively looking for hopeful, illegal immigrants - and thereby supporting the traffickers in the TRADE.....

19 minutes ago, Opl said:

and in the end -  and it's mat matters most -  over 90% of those denied asylum seekers status finally stay .  

'Cause governments have under funded resourcing as well as not putting in-place sufficient government to government agreements to facilitate deportation. Do you reckon the extreme right wing EU governments will have success with negotiating such agreements? I do not.

8 minutes ago, simple1 said:

'Cause governments have not put in-place sufficient government to government agreements to facilitate deportation.

'cause The cost would be huge if we had to expel everyone: "11.3 billion euros, the cost of illegal migrant expulsions since 2000 by the 28 countries of the European Union as well as Norway, Switzerland, Lichtenstein and Iceland.

Any solution?

 

24 minutes ago, simple1 said:

'Cause governments have under funded resourcing as well as not putting in-place sufficient government to government agreements to facilitate deportation. Do you reckon the extreme right wing EU governments will have success with negotiating such agreements? I do not.

Added to which, some countries (notably Iran) flatly refuse to accept deportation of their citizens. Iranians convicted of drug crimes in Oz are looking at permanent Immigration detention after their prison sentences. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-30/iranian-drug-offender-faces-indefinite-immigration-detention/9711502

 

BTW he is just one of many Iranian nationals granted protection visas, and subsequently caught importing/selling drugs.

9 minutes ago, Opl said:

'cause The cost would be huge if we had to expel everyone: "11.3 billion euros, the cost of illegal migrant expulsions since 2000 by the 28 countries of the European Union as well as Norway, Switzerland, Lichtenstein and Iceland.

Any solution?

 

Believe you referencing the info at the link below which came up when I did a search? If so believe you're quoting the total cost that includes detention and so on.

 

http://www.migreurop.org/IMG/pdf/migrant-detention-eu-en.pdf

 

Solutions? Western government complacency, dramatic under funding, lack of local resources and totally inadequate access to legal processes for asylum seekers in host countries led to the massive influx into the EU in 2015. Accordingly within EU countries invest in more resources and infrastructure to hold and rapidly process asylum applicants, more security (police?) to track down and detain 'illegals', harsher penalties for those employing and exploiting 'illegals', expedite government to government agreements for deportation, heavily focus on diplomatic relations with source countries, reevaluate effectiveness of aid programs then refocus, identify and engage with effective NGOs on the ground etc etc

1. sea-watch entered italian waters and docked in lampedusa violating italian laws.

2. sea watch staff created the emergency situation on board willfully with criminal intention by staying 3 weeks on sea.

 

wbr

roobaa01

7 minutes ago, Ozman52 said:

Added to which, some countries (notably Iran) flatly refuse to accept deportation of their citizens. Iranians convicted of drug crimes in Oz are looking at permanent Immigration detention after their prison sentences. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-30/iranian-drug-offender-faces-indefinite-immigration-detention/9711502

 

BTW he is just one of many Iranian nationals granted protection visas, and subsequently caught importing/selling drugs.

Some will commit crime, same as any nationality. On the other side of the coin...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/oct/21/manus-island-refugee-reportedly-in-a-critical-condition-after-violent-assault