Transferwise international transfers heads up

[MeowBundit]

1 hour ago, JAS21 said:

 

Please post when it turns up and if it shows as FTT ... have a nice rest of the day ...

 

From what I read it seems several/many are having problems with TW ... hope it is only short term ...

My situation is more funny. I officially working here and also have international income. Also my consulate still make affidavits. BUT as the preemptive step, I build transfers history in case there is any problem with other options. Before I just withdraw cash from my foreign ATM card... Nowadays technologies is not in compliance with what the immigration want to see... I not see the reason why bank can't give cash advice statement that Mr X withdraw X THB using foreign ATM card in his name at bank counter... but I understand appeal to logic will not work...

[MeowBundit]

Finally

TW transfer arrived at my BBL account with proper FTT (phew)... There is always SMS come when INTL transfer arrives, and always around 14-00 - 14-05 Thai time... 

July is "closed" as monthly INTL transfer, have one month to look for other solutions. TW not reliable. Unfortunately my sending bank not allow SWIFT's from mobile or internet banking... use debit card to refill TW account then send to BBL... 

Edited July 12, 2019 by MeowBundit

[Acharn]

On 7/10/2019 at 7:35 PM, racyrick said:

Didn't Immigration require you to give them a bank letter showing all your monthly transfers?

 

No, they did not. As I mentioned in my post, I asked the bank branch manager about it and she said the letter showing the ending balance was all that was needed. The copies I had made of the pages in the bank book were the equivalent of a statement from the bank. Of course the IO did compare the bank book to the copies, but she did not ask for a statement from the bank. She did, however, check to see that I had the letter from the bank with the rest of the copies. That was something I was very concerned about, too. I was anxious, too, about the SMT code on the latest transfer rather than FTT. The officer muttered to herself several times, "What is that? What does that mean?" The officer at the next desk, who may be her superior, told her, "You'll have to ask the bank." Of course this is an atypical situation -- both the officers and the clerk have handled my applications for at least five years and not only recognize me, they act friendly. She made the common sense decision that even if they were using a different code, from the amount of the deposit and the date it arrived it must have been my pension. YMMV.

Edited July 13, 2019 by Acharn

[racyrick]

1 hour ago, Acharn said:

No, they did not. As I mentioned in my post, I asked the bank branch manager about it and she said the letter showing the ending balance was all that was needed. The copies I had made of the pages in the bank book were the equivalent of a statement from the bank. Of course the IO did compare the bank book to the copies, but she did not ask for a statement from the bank. She did, however, check to see that I had the letter from the bank with the rest of the copies. That was something I was very concerned about, too. I was anxious, too, about the SMT code on the latest transfer rather than FTT. The officer muttered to herself several times, "What is that? What does that mean?" The officer at the next desk, who may be her superior, told her, "You'll have to ask the bank." Of course this is an atypical situation -- both the officers and the clerk have handled my applications for at least five years and not only recognize me, they act friendly. She made the common sense decision that even if they were using a different code, from the amount of the deposit and the date it arrived it must have been my pension. YMMV.

Thanks, glad it all went well for you.

Unfortunately, most offices ask for a letter from the bank showing international transfers for those using the income method and obviously the ones coded SMT would not be included and would have to explain like you did.

[bprhodes]

I received this from TW today....I have enough for one more 65,000K transfer this month, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this works...

 

Thank you for contacting us. 

I was able to look into your request, in fact we have had few contacts about this situation. We have a solution for it and I was able to add a special tag on your THB account. This tag will allow your payments to your THB account to be routed with one of partner's whose deposit will show as an international transfer. 

I would like to add that this does not 100% guarantee that all your payments to THB will be sent with that same partner. Due to our automated system, it could happen that we use a different partner to send the funds if there are some issues with the other partner. In case this happens and your transfer shows as domestic then you will be able to request a form from our partner and provide it to the Thai police in order to recognize it as a foreign transfer. 

Should you have any questions, please let us know. We are always here and happy to help!

Best regards, 

Alioune

[pbouvier]

Whew!  I just read all 19 pages of this thread.  And, as one who is in the same boat as many of you, I will share my experiences.  First, my input to some of the questions raised, as well as I can remember them), then to my situation, and finally, to the result of my 'visit with Hua Hin Immigration.  My bank is Bangkok Bank, and I am a US Expat living in Hua Hin going on years now. I learned about TransferWise from this forum in January 2019 and began using it then, and have used it dozens of times since. My Visa renewal month is July.

 

Advice about Bangkok Bank New York, direct ACH from US sources to Bangkok Bank New York:

I believe it was in this forum where I had read that BKKNY was going to change their policy to require transfers to them comply with new International ACH (IACH) imposed by US Securities on April 1, 2019.  Sometime in May I received a letter from them stating they would be moving that date out to June 30, 2019.  

 

On June 24, 2019 I did a test transfer from a US source to BKKNY and it went through.

On July 7, 2019, I did another transfer from the same US source to BKKNY expecting it to fail.  It did not.

On both transfers came in as "International Transfer" on my online statement, 'FTT' in my passbook.  

Conclusion: TiT (This is Thailand).  Though it's good to know the route is there, but I do not depend on it being around long. 

 

My experience this year.

I was doing the affidavit method but now going the monthly income route as it works fine for me; I just had to establish new channels from USA to Thailand, per the issue with BKKNY above, and to establish a schedule.  I learned (again from this Forum) that "Credit Advice" letters were available from the bank and were a necessary accompaniment to the 'official' printout of 12 months of bank statements (I was actually offered 18 months for 200B, so I accepted)-which numbered 15 pages (keep a note of that count). 

 

I too noticed that, since June, some, but not all, of my transfers were marked 'Interbank transfer via SMART' (SMT in my passbook). I too am concerned that they will not be "accepted" by Immigration.  Thus I turned to this forum, which contains the most important information on the subject that can be found.  

 

So, last week I took my 4 pages of "Credit Advice" slips-which only went back to April-and 18 months of statements to Hua Hin Immigration, for my visa renewal.  I was *the only person* in the office behind one person who was nearly finished.  The agent was the 'middle-aged woman notorious among us as seeming hostile to our presence.  But I was confident.  I sat down, handed my 'stack' to her, and she began examining the statement, underlining the deposits.  After about 15 seconds she stopped, looked at the credit slips and told me I had to go back to the bank and retrieve slips dating back to December 2018, and sternly sent me off.  Seems to me her job was to confirm deposits from my statement, but I complied.

 

I went to the my Bangkok Bank Branch in BlúPort and did get slips dating back to December 2018; there were 16 deposits, so 16 pages; 17 including the certificate from the bank.  I returned to the Immigration office, which was busier, but she had told me to go directly to her when I returned, so I did.  I sat down, handed her my stack, which included a 6-page lease agreement, two sheets for visa forms, and 2 copies of my passport-I handed her a stack of 46 sheets of paper.   She arranged the stack, secured it with a large clip, and handed it back to a worker, who put it on a stack of others like it-her 'stack' was a 20cm high, just as high as the stacks of the two other workers. She then started clicking at the computer keyboard and stamping the many, many stamps on my passport, and, within a minute requested 5700 Baht for my one-year multi-entry visa.  

 

She never even glanced at the papers.

 

I sat there relieved, but wondering: did she just 'trust' me, or was she avoiding doing her job, again?  Did she make me get the other papers just to 'mess' with me?  (After all, a couple years ago she refused to accept the standard 90-day, certified bank statement claiming it wasn't 90 days (it clearly was). My spouse chatted her up and, suddenly, she accepted it.) 

 

Might someone verify the stack later and un-issue my visa?  I don't know.  I just left with a renewed visa, a little confused, but, relieved. 

 

End note.  

With each of us now being required to provide a dozen or more sheets of paper to 'prove our income', I wonder how long will it be before Immigration file cabinets burst. What will they do with all those sensitive, private papers? 

 

As per advice elsewhere in this long thread, I sent an email to TW support requesting my deposits be made directly to Bangkok Bank, as did my spouse.  If enough of us do that, perhaps TW will consider our 'special' needs. But not depending on that I will try the SWIFT method and drop to one deposit per month if necessary.  I am hopeful that we get clarity on FTT vs SMT by July 2020.

 

Or maybe next time I'll just use a 'service'.

 

 

 

 

 

[MeePeeMai]

Thanks for your report pbouvier! 

 

 

[pontious]

On 7/13/2019 at 12:29 PM, bprhodes said:

We have a solution for it and I was able to add a special tag on your THB account. This tag will allow your payments to your THB account to be routed with one of partner's whose deposit will show as an international transfer. 

I would like to add that this does not 100% guarantee that all your payments to THB will be sent with that same partner.

 

Then it is not a solution. Until they do, if ever, it is a gamble. Until they can guarantee it I will not use them.  The same old email saying they have found a solution when clearly they have not.

[sumrit]

11 hours ago, pbouvier said:

"Credit Advice" letters were available from the bank............So, last week I took my 4 pages of "Credit Advice" slips

Can I ask, did you get those credit advise slips from your Bangkok bank branch? And exactly what information regarding the origination of the transfer show?

 

My transfer two weeks ago came via Kasikorn, showing SMT in my passbook. When I called the BKK call centre they told me I should go to my local BKK branch to get a credit advise receipt but my local branch say I should go to the Kasikorn. In turn Kasikorn head office say I need the transfer reference number information they use to transfer the money to BKK so cant do anything.

 

I thing these banks are sending us round in circles, probably because they are suddenly being inundated with extra requests to supply (what they think are) unnecessary details. Both BKK and Kasikorn told me they can't understand why Immigration won't simply accept the TW PDF transfer receipts as proof of transfer. 

[Kadilo]

3 minutes ago, sumrit said:

 

 

I thing these banks are sending us round in circles, probably because they are suddenly being inundated with extra requests to supply (what they think are) unnecessary details. Both BKK and Kasikorn told me they can't understand why Immigration won't simply accept the TW PDF transfer receipts as proof of transfer. 

 Be great if they did. I for one wouldnt trust that to happen

[Acharn]

On 7/13/2019 at 12:12 PM, racyrick said:

Thanks, glad it all went well for you.

Unfortunately, most offices ask for a letter from the bank showing international transfers for those using the income method and obviously the ones coded SMT would not be included and would have to explain like you did.

Well, for what it's worth, the branch manager at the main branch of Bangkok Bank in Nakhon Sawan insisted to me that there is no such thing as a letter from the bank listing transfers. The only bank letter they provide shows only the ending balance. I am not a mind reader or a seer, so I cannot divine what high ranking officers in the Immigration Police will do when the banks use different codes. I think they will have to accept the new codes being used by the banks, but that's because for 37 years they have always treated me pleasantly and fairly. Heck, when my first wife died the Immigration Officer who had been handling my extension every year gave me advice on how to do visa runs until I reached the age of 60 and the pension requirement dropped to where I met it. I don't know what other Immigration offices ask for, which is why I asked on another thread if anyone had experience, and no one who replied did. If you know that "most" immigration offices are demanding a letter from the bank that shows transfers will you please explain to me how you got that information? I also would like to know how you know that the SMT code would not be included on such a letter if it did exist. It seems to me you are over-emphasizing possibilities to increase your anxiety, but, of course, I could be wrong.

[Jip99]

12 minutes ago, Acharn said:

Well, for what it's worth, the branch manager at the main branch of Bangkok Bank in Nakhon Sawan insisted to me that there is no such thing as a letter from the bank listing transfers. The only bank letter they provide shows only the ending balance. I am not a mind reader or a seer, so I cannot divine what high ranking officers in the Immigration Police will do when the banks use different codes. I think they will have to accept the new codes being used by the banks, but that's because for 37 years they have always treated me pleasantly and fairly. Heck, when my first wife died the Immigration Officer who had been handling my extension every year gave me advice on how to do visa runs until I reached the age of 60 and the pension requirement dropped to where I met it. I don't know what other Immigration offices ask for, which is why I asked on another thread if anyone had experience, and no one who replied did. If you know that "most" immigration offices are demanding a letter from the bank that shows transfers will you please explain to me how you got that information? I also would like to know how you know that the SMT code would not be included on such a letter if it did exist. It seems to me you are over-emphasizing possibilities to increase your anxiety, but, of course, I could be wrong.

 

There is a letter from BKB, I have seen one, and it was referenced in earlier topics.

 

My own bank, Kasikorn doesn’t do a confirmation letter - but Bangkok bank do.

[pontious]

3 hours ago, Jip99 said:

I don't know what other Immigration offices ask for, which is why I asked on another thread if anyone had experience, and no one who replied did. If you know that "most" immigration offices are demanding a letter from the bank that shows transfers will you please explain to me how you got that information? I also would like to know how you know that the SMT code would not be included on such a letter if it did exist. It seems to me you are over-emphasizing possibilities to increase your anxiety, but, of course, I could be wrong.

I went to Jomtien IO. They want a letter from your bank [ they show you an example that has been posted before on TV. { The letter states Mr Blogs passport number blah, blah, blah, has received the  following international transfers from abroad.

 

1 Jan                150.000 Baht

5 Feb               135,000Baht

etc. etc.

They are not interested in PDF files from TW or anything else.

Your bank will give you a letter stating the things I said in my first paragraph. They will not enter one that has SMT or any other bank coding that is not international. Why should they? It arrived to them as domestic transfer. They are not interested in your TW Pdf printouts. They can only state the international ones they received 

 

 

Sumrit just posted the letter above. !

 

Edited July 17, 2019 by pontious

[sumrit]

11 hours ago, pontious said:

Sumrit just posted the letter above. !

My post has now been removed because some personal information was inadvertently visible. I try and find out if I can re-post.

[oxmermaid]

It appears that my redacted areas were visible to some people some of the time!

 

I feel unable to re-post the data in any format as I have no confidence that redaction will be universal.

 

Sorry folks

[pontious]

23 minutes ago, sumrit said:

My post has now been removed because some personal information was inadvertently visible. I try and find out if I can re-post.

There are 2 examples on TV. Someone far better on computers than me should be able to find and post. There is an example on Pattayaexpat's website. How to post it from  there to here is beyond me.

[Bill97]

Got to love ‘em. Thai bankers say that immigration should accept TransferWise pdf as proof of international transfer but the bank would not provide a letter verifying international transfers based on the TW pdf.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Acharn]

23 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

There is a letter from BKB, I have seen one, and it was referenced in earlier topics.

 

My own bank, Kasikorn doesn’t do a confirmation letter - but Bangkok bank do.

I think we must be miscommunicating somehow. Two branch managers at different branches here in Nakhon Sawan insisted to me that Bangkok Bank does not produce such a letter. Now I've seen other posts saying the Jomtien Immigration office demands one. I believe all the banks used to produce that type of report after 1997 up to about 2002, but since I never had transfers none were shown on my bank letter and the Immigration officers (in Bangkok then) never remarked on it because I was basing the extension on my pension. In this case the Immigration officer in Nakhon Sawan did not ask for one nor seem to expect it. I guess I just have to be grateful I'm dealing with Immigration Officers in a different country than you guys. If Kasikorn doesn't do a confirmation letter how do you get your own extension? I kind of wish I had time to go to Bangkok, the main office of Bangkok Bank on Sala Daeng Road, and ask there.

[sumrit]

4 minutes ago, Acharn said:

If Kasikorn doesn't do a confirmation letter how do you get your own extension? I kind of wish I had time to go to Bangkok, the main office of Bangkok Bank on Sala Daeng Road, and ask there.

Both BKKB and Kasikorn do supply letters so I presume all Thai banks do. 

 

I've actually got copies of letters from BKKB and Kasikorn and posted them yesterday as an example but unfortunately on one of the letters the persons details were still visible so the post was (rightly) deleted. I won't re-post but can confirm that Kasikorn do supply the required letter.

[wgdanson]

7 hours ago, Bill97 said:

Got to love ‘em. Thai bankers say that immigration should accept TransferWise pdf as proof of international transfer but the bank would not provide a letter verifying international transfers based on the TW pdf.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

Been in Bkk Bank P'lok today. My July transfer went via Kasikorn, but the nice man at Bkk says he will do me the required letter which WILL say all transfers were International.

If the IO notices that July TW transfer says SMT, I shall ask him to speak with the bank man.

Edited July 18, 2019 by wgdanson

[sumrit]

6 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Been in Bkk Bank P'lok today. My July transfer went via Kasikorn, but the nice man at Bkk says he will do me the required letter which WILL say all transfers were International.

If the IO notices that July TW transfer says SMT, I shall ask him to speak with the bank man.

When I contacted BKKB call centre over my July transfer they told me to go to my local branch where they'd do the same. Unfortunately at my local branch they said I'd have to get confirmation that the July payment was a foreign transfer from the Kasikorn bank. hopefully, after several days of going round in circles the letter is finally on its way.

 

As far as I can tell, although it's classified as a local transfer, the SMART (SMT) code is only used when a transfer is made using an intermediary bank. 

 

Can anybody confirm (or otherwise) whether this particular code is used for anything else?

[soalbundy]

8 minutes ago, sumrit said:

When I contacted BKKB call centre over my July transfer they told me to go to my local branch where they'd do the same. Unfortunately at my local branch they said I'd have to get confirmation that the July payment was a foreign transfer from the Kasikorn bank. hopefully, after several days of going round in circles the letter is finally on its way.

 

As far as I can tell, although it's classified as a local transfer, the SMART (SMT) code is only used when a transfer is made using an intermediary bank. 

 

Can anybody confirm (or otherwise) whether this particular code is used for anything else?

I have the same problem ie Kasikorn to Bangkok bank is SMT but strictly speaking I suppose it is because the money isn't 'sent' from your home country, it is taken out of a TW account at Kasikorn and transferred to Bangkok bank, the fact that a transfer of funds from your account in Europe whatever to a TW account in your home country is open to interpretation ie it isn't really a foreign transfer.

[sumrit]

1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

ie it isn't really a foreign transfer

No banks physically transfer money these days, they all operate a similar system to TW, moving paperwork through accounts to technically move money around. That's what a foreign transfer consists of.  

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, sumrit said:

No banks physically transfer money these days, they all operate a similar system to TW, moving paperwork through accounts to technically move money around. That's what a foreign transfer consists of.  

Yes I realize that but the paper trail is different. TW isn't a bank.

Edited July 18, 2019 by soalbundy

[jikkee]

This has been an interesting post as i recently started trying to use TW, with not much success. My O-visa has always been by marriage since 2013 and i have used the income method as i have usa social security along with two other pensions. I had set up my social security since the beginning as Direct Deposit into Bangkok Bank New York and haven't had any problems with it and my social security alone is enough to meet income requirements. The only drawback to the BBL account is having to withdraw only in person and not being able to have online access, debit card or to mix any other money into that account. Up until this year's extension, the income affidavit from my embassy and copies of my social security benefit letter+ BBL statement and pension letters and statements from my multi-national retirement pensions were accepted. For my May 2019 extension, immigration wanted letter from BBL stating the source of the income and rejected the other retirement statements because they have no way of verifying the info. They would only accept statements from thai banks. They asked me to get letter from BBL detailing source of the deposits even though i showed them the original application for the BBL account is directly tied to the social security administration, along with 12 months of statements. I went to the silom office, as local branches only provide last 3 months statements, and they flatly informed me the only thing they can provide is a letter showing my account balance and account info and copies of my bank statements. I paid for statements of all my transfers since i opened the account in 2013 to give to immigration, just to show the Nakhon Pathom immigration officers(the same ones i report to every 90 days for the past six years). Fortunately, that was enough to get my extension this year. Next year i am not so sure. They always suggest the 400k retirement option as better, but I won't do it, as my total pension income is multiple times the 40k. I was looking at TW to structure one of my other pensions to my kbank account every month as insurance for next year's income requirement. After reading this thread, I will stick to monthly scheduled SWIFT transfers from my usa credit unions for the kbank account.

[Jip99]

1 hour ago, Acharn said:

I think we must be miscommunicating somehow. Two branch managers at different branches here in Nakhon Sawan insisted to me that Bangkok Bank does not produce such a letter. Now I've seen other posts saying the Jomtien Immigration office demands one. I believe all the banks used to produce that type of report after 1997 up to about 2002, but since I never had transfers none were shown on my bank letter and the Immigration officers (in Bangkok then) never remarked on it because I was basing the extension on my pension. In this case the Immigration officer in Nakhon Sawan did not ask for one nor seem to expect it. I guess I just have to be grateful I'm dealing with Immigration Officers in a different country than you guys. If Kasikorn doesn't do a confirmation letter how do you get your own extension? I kind of wish I had time to go to Bangkok, the main office of Bangkok Bank on Sala Daeng Road, and ask there.

 

See sumrit's post..... and WG Danson.

 

I actually showed a Bangkok Bank letter template (taken off Thai.Visa.com) to my local Kasikorn branch. As helpful as they were, (and Prakhonchai branch of K Bank have always been Farang-friendly) they said that Head Office had not said they could do such letters.

 

My renewal was a little unusual in that I had previously been advised that Buriram immigration would not accept my British embassy letter after 1st March. When I called in May  police captain Noongsangnern took my embassy letter plus the K Bank standard letter (stating that I held an account with a balance of c. 30k), plus the 12 months stamped bank statements plus my TW PDF's that corresponded to the 65k+ p.m. transfers.

 

 

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, wgdanson said:

Been in Bkk Bank P'lok today. My July transfer went via Kasikorn, but the nice man at Bkk says he will do me the required letter which WILL say all transfers were International.

If the IO notices that July TW transfer says SMT, I shall ask him to speak with the bank man.

I will do my extension in December but I spoke to a lady (not at the counter) at my local BBL about the kasikorn SMT after explaining about TW and the problems concerning immigration and she also said she would give me the letter showing it as FTT. I have no idea what the template looks like though.

[sumrit]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

Yes I realize that but the paper trail is different. TW isn't a bank.

ALL paper trails vary with all banks and finance houses, dependent on their day to day requirements. Calling somebody a bank doesn't make them any different.

[wgdanson]

11 hours ago, soalbundy said:

I will do my extension in December but I spoke to a lady (not at the counter) at my local BBL about the kasikorn SMT after explaining about TW and the problems concerning immigration and she also said she would give me the letter showing it as FTT. I have no idea what the template looks like though.

This was posted on this thread a while back. I showed it to my Bkk Bank man and he said he will do the same letter for me in December.

[wgdanson]

2 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

Thanks. I printed off a copy for my records and will show it to the local manager at Kaiskorn (personal friend). I slightly worried that when my SS IDD starts it might show as Baht/Net not FTN. 

This letter does not say FTT, SMT or BHTNET. Just confirms that the stated amounts went into your Bkk Bank on the days shown, as a MONTHLY PENSION TRANSFER. I guess the IO could go through your bank book to confirms each one, but can he be bothered when the bank had done the work for him. Hope not!