we were told TM30 not needed, by Immigration

[DrJack54]

42 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

The police station is only for reporting if there is no IO in the province.

That was appropriate many years ago. Can you name a province currently not having imm office. Perhaps some exit. Doubt it.

[dcnx]

Well done, criminal. Be sure to report again on your next movement. And the one after that. And after that.

[Shuguk]

With all you guys citing different experiences, can you not contact your local Embassies with your experience and ask your Embassy to contact whoever on the Thai side and ask them to sort out all these inconsistences? Or can somebody from Thaivisa make contact with the Embassies. Just a thought.

[Knocker33]

9 hours ago, lust said:

Why isn’t there 1 database to put all their ridiculous requirements and rules on a website with both English and Thai translation? Brain dead country.

If they laid all the numerous rules and regulations out in black and white there would be no way they could interpret the rules to pi$$ us off. Or other things.

[jackdd]

1 hour ago, possum1931 said:

The police station is only for reporting if there is no IO in the province.

The TM28 can be submitted at any police station, this is clearly stated in the law and on the form itself.

The TM30 has to be submitted with immigration police (unless there is no immigration office in the province), also clearly stated in the law

 

But according to the law there is hardly any situation in which a foreigner who entered Thailand legally is supposed to submit a TM28, so this doesn't really matter.

Edited July 6, 2019 by jackdd

[elviajero]

5 minutes ago, Shuguk said:

With all you guys citing different experiences, can you not contact your local Embassies with your experience and ask your Embassy to contact whoever on the Thai side and ask them to sort out all these inconsistences? Or can somebody from Thaivisa make contact with the Embassies. Just a thought.

The Embassies couldn't and wouldn't do anything. We've got off lightly for years and even now they could - in many cases - be far stricter in enforcing the law. If every office was consistent and enforced the law it could be far worse.

[lamyai3]

2 hours ago, AAArdvark said:

OK, it is obvious that we need to replace the TM-28, TM-30 and the TM-47 with one simple TM-105.

Carol Vorderman would be impressed with your numeracy skills ????

[samtam]

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

That's my understanding also of the way BKK CW currently is enforcing the TM30 policy.

Do you suppose they need all the supplementary paperwork with the TM.30 each time, such as passport copies, chanote (unitl I get my Tabien Baan), copy of Blue Book, 2 copies of all in my case as we are a foreign couple, with joint ownership of our condo. Having sent all that off to them at CW in early June by registered mail, and not having yet received the receipt, I wonder whether they are struggling under a mountain of paper, which will only increase if the same paperwork is required each and every time.

 

Anyone had experience of this? I'm about to depart my condo for a couple of months to stay in a serviced apartment, whilst I renovate. The serviced apartment will file TM.30s for us, and I presume we will have to refile when we return to our residence.

 

For anyone who travels in and out of Thailand regularly, they might know. I have not yet mastered the app filing, as I've only heard mixed reports about the success rate, although I will get around to it eventually.

Edited July 6, 2019 by samtam

[ianezy0]

Some do, some didn’t, some don’t, some did, some will, some won’t, some wouldn’t,  some would, 

so...what is this TM30 business anyway, because I haven’t but maybe I should.

Agghhhh... I was relaxed and calm before I logged into TV ????

[zhangxifu]

3 hours ago, elviajero said:

I mean that a second report confirming you have departed is not made.

 

I haven't seen the online TM.30, but the paper one has "expired date of stay" which is referring to the 'admitted until' date stamped in the passport, not the planned departure from that property.

 

It would make sense that the online system for hotels has a departure date, but unless you're reported as arriving at another property the system breaks down.

 

There is no difference and I often use hotels as an example. If someone changed hotel every night immigration should receive a new TM.30 every day. If someone stays at a different private residence every night the same applies.

 

Wouldn't it be easier to say you were wrong? There IS a check out date in the in the TM30 online. So nothing will break down. Now I said it, twice.

[mlmcleod]

BY now, I hope every seasoned expat knows that immigration is just a crapshoot designed to create fines. If you follow one officers rules another will penalize you.  If you ignore the rules you will also be penalized.  There is a term Catch-22 that defines the way Thailand immigration works!  And of course, Murphy's Law always supersedes common sense.

[zhangxifu]

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

No, there are some IOs where TM30s are required when you travel within Thailand, such as staying at a hotel that reports a TM30 for you that's not your home address... After that, to get your status back to your home address, you'd need to file a TM30 for your return home...  Depending, on the local policies of the Immigration office involved.

 

Staying over night in a hotel does not change your home address status in anyway. The TM30 reporting system is same in every province. The difference is just that some offices choose to have a different interpretation of the law, thus the policies of continuous reporting.

[elviajero]

9 minutes ago, zhangxifu said:

Wouldn't it be easier to say you were wrong? There IS a check out date in the in the TM30 online. So nothing will break down. Now I said it, twice.

No because I didn’t say anything wrong. You’re just a selective reader.

 

The hotels may well give a future departure date, but they do not confirm departure AND UNTIL a new TM.30 is submitted — which it often isn’t — the system shows the person at the last hotel. 

 

My point is/was that the system only works if the current place you’re staying at  makes a new TM.30 report, otherwise if you’ve departed the hotel how do they know where you are!

[zhangxifu]

1 minute ago, elviajero said:

No because I didn’t say anything wrong. You’re just a selective reader.

 

The hotels may well give a future departure date, but they do not confirm departure AND UNTIL a new TM.30 is submitted — which it often isn’t — the system shows the person at the last hotel. 

 

My point is/was that the system only works if the current place you’re staying at  makes a new TM.30 report, otherwise if you’ve departed the hotel how do they know where you are!

You certainly have a vivid imagination. You choose to drag these conversations on and on. I will explain it to you one more time.

I have registered my residence where I own or rent. If I stay in a hotel I will return to my residence after. Nothing will break down, it's all very clear. There is no need for me to report again. If there was, the online reporting would be actually brainless. So far, you have not presented any reason for us to believe that the system truly is brainless as you imagine it is. 

[zhangxifu]

3 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

11 hours ago, jacko45k said:

It changes too often and applied and interpreted in varying ways between various offices and even different guys in the same office. They also do not want us to know too mutt.

From my point of view, the "at the discretion of the IO" seems to be the major issue

Should be one consistent application across the country of the regulations, each office the same rules, no confusion then.

 

The section 38 is a law. It is not at discretion of the IO. It says the foreigner must report every time when staying over 24 h. Most immigration offices have realized reporting this would cause quite an insane amount of work plus driving everyone crazy. So most offices choose to implement it per international arrival. This means they will not fine you if you don't report back to your residence after every single hotel stay. They might even advice towards their policies. But they might also give you an answer according the law, even though they will not penalize you every single time. That's why it's sometimes problematic to ask, cos they will just refer the law, not the implementation.

[jackdd]

11 minutes ago, zhangxifu said:

I have registered my residence where I own or rent.

How did you do this?

[rott]

11 hours ago, Pilotman said:

It's not a brain dead country, it's just not your country.  Their gig, their rules.  

The immigration practices are brain dead no two ways about it. Your "see no evil, hear no evil", don't you dare comment attitude does not change that.

And by the way we have all noticed that it is "their" country.

I do not think anybody is trying to change that, just pointing a few anomalies out.

[zhangxifu]

3 hours ago, possum1931 said:

12 hours ago, MRToMRT said:

I think the TM30 is the most confusing thing I have ever come across. 

It's not so much that it's confusing, different IOs and officers are just making up their own rules, and the reason for that is because they can.

When I come back from a holiday in the UK, there is no way I am traveling 55Ks in 24 hours to report to my local Immigration office.

It only takes a few minutes to report online after you have registered username.

[zhangxifu]

1 hour ago, samtam said:

Do you suppose they need all the supplementary paperwork with the TM.30 each time, such as passport copies, chanote (unitl I get my Tabien Baan), copy of Blue Book, 2 copies of all in my case as we are a foreign couple, with joint ownership of our condo. Having sent all that off to them at CW in early June by registered mail, and not having yet received the receipt, I wonder whether they are struggling under a mountain of paper, which will only increase if the same paperwork is required each and every time.

 

Anyone had experience of this? I'm about to depart my condo for a couple of months to stay in a serviced apartment, whilst I renovate. The serviced apartment will file TM.30s for us, and I presume we will have to refile when we return to our residence.

 

For anyone who travels in and out of Thailand regularly, they might know. I have not yet mastered the app filing, as I've only heard mixed reports about the success rate, although I will get around to it eventually.

I have never filed a paperwork TM30 but I hear in Chiang Mai they will simply stamp your receipt for the repeated report. I wouldn't worry much about CW as they are always very professional. Why not to register to online reporting? After registering with ownership papers or rental contract there is zero paperwork for actual TM30 and it can be done in minutes online.

[zhangxifu]

24 minutes ago, jackdd said:

How did you do this?

Are you asking me how did I file the TM30? I have done it once, online. I can do it online after I have registered my condo/house to the system with it's registration number. It's a private residence. A hotel would register to this same system with a hotel license. The online system works great and I have no idea why some people like to imagine it is broken.

[wobalt]

Assume you live in a condo in Nonthaburi but working in Bangkok, where you rent a room, where you stay three days during the working week. Then you do what? Every time you return to one place file a new TM30??


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[jackdd]

5 minutes ago, zhangxifu said:

Are you asking me how did I file the TM30? I have done it once, online. I can do it online after I have registered my condo/house to the system with it's registration number. It's a private residence. A hotel would register to this same system with a hotel license. The online system works great and I have no idea why some people like to imagine it is broken.

So let's say you would visit me and i report you with a TM30 here, in accordance with the law.

Then you go back to your place, but don't submit a new TM30.

If police would be looking for you for whatever reason they would show up at my place first because according to their computer you are still here.

So unless they enforce a new TM30 every time somebody returns to a previous place the TM30 reporting does not make much sense, because they have no idea where you actually are.

 

1 minute ago, wobalt said:

Assume you live in a condo in Nonthaburi but working in Bangkok, where you rent a room, where you stay three days during the working week. Then you do what? Every time you return to one place file a new TM30??

Yes. Does of course depend on the immigration offices if they enforce it or not.

Edited July 6, 2019 by jackdd

[zhangxifu]

2 minutes ago, wobalt said:

Assume you live in a condo in Nonthaburi but working in Bangkok, where you rent a room, where you stay three days during the working week. Then you do what? Every time you return to one place file a new TM30??


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I think you would be safe enough having filed one TM30. Knowing Nonthaburi office's reputation, I would choose Bangkok as my residence if possible.

[zhangxifu]

5 minutes ago, jackdd said:

10 minutes ago, zhangxifu said:

Are you asking me how did I file the TM30? I have done it once, online. I can do it online after I have registered my condo/house to the system with it's registration number. It's a private residence. A hotel would register to this same system with a hotel license. The online system works great and I have no idea why some people like to imagine it is broken.

So let's say you would visit me and i report you with a TM30 here, in accordance with the law.

Then you go back to your place, but don't submit a new TM30.

If police would be looking for you for whatever reason they would show up at my place first because according to their computer you are still here.

So unless they enforce a new TM30 every time somebody returns to a previous place the TM30 reporting does not make much sense, because they have no idea where you actually are.

You should not report me as staying indefinitely at your place but with a leaving date. That's how online system works. Anyhow, it wouldn't require that much effort for the officer to find the correct entry, which is done for my address. That address is in all the other forms as well. And it should also be in the form I am about to use at their office next time, when they might check for my TM30. Of course, I see your point that the list could be long if I stay at a different private residence every week, guess your residence is the one where you spend most of your time. I would say it's easier for me if you did not report my few day visit at all. I after all have TM30 already as I report myself. I would definitely report my tourist guests and not to even worry about my hotel stays.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, zhangxifu said:

Staying over night in a hotel does not change your home address status in anyway. The TM30 reporting system is same in every province. The difference is just that some offices choose to have a different interpretation of the law, thus the policies of continuous reporting.

 

I'm not talking about a change of one's official home address.

 

I'm talking about one's home address as reflected in the TM30 system, which only holds ONE address at a time, the most recent one filed. So, if a hotel files a TM30 for you and you don't change it back yourself to your home address via a new TM30, there's a good chance, depending on the Immigration office, that you'll get grief when you go for your next extension.

 

Some IOs enforce it, such as BKK CW. Others don't or are less rigorous.

 

[wobalt]

Yes. Does of course depend on the immigration offices if they enforce it or not.

Meaning that you would only be able to work 3 days per week, other days you stay at immigration?


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[wobalt]

I think you would be safe enough having filed one TM30. Knowing Nonthaburi office's reputation, I would choose Bangkok as my residence if possible.

This might possibly work, however I own the condo in Nonthaburi


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[zhangxifu]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I'm not talking about a change of one's official home address.

 

I'm talking about one's home address as reflected in the TM30 system, which only holds ONE address at a time, the most recent one filed. So, if a hotel files a TM30 for you and you don't change it back yourself to your home address via a new TM30, there's a good chance, depending on the Immigration office, that you'll get grief when you go for your next extension.

 

Some IOs enforce it, such as BKK CW. Others don't or are less rigorous.

 

What makes you say "only holds ONE address at a time"? Why would you say that?

Hotel is not a residence. These are diffferent categories when you register for username for reporting TM30.

Why wouldn't there be a list, a history, of all the reports? I find it quite ridiculous for someone to imagine that hotel stays are permanent. Do you seriously think that the immigration has difficulties figuring out that you might returning to your home? If you have registered one with them.

BTW, CW has so far always instructed people to redo TM30 after new international arrival, TM6.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

17 minutes ago, zhangxifu said:

What makes you say "only holds ONE address at a time"? Why would you say that?

Hotel is not a residence. These are diffferent categories when you register for username for reporting TM30.

Why wouldn't there be a list, a history, of all the reports? I find it quite ridiculous for someone to imagine that hotel stays are permanent. Do you seriously think that the immigration has difficulties figuring out that you might returning to your home? If you have registered one with them.

BTW, CW has so far always instructed people to redo TM30 after new international arrival, TM6.

 

BKK CW has been fining people who have stayed at hotels in Thailand, had those hotels file a TM30 for them, and then they themselves not having updated the TM30 report back to their home residence when they go for an extension application.

 

Once a TM30 is filed for particular location, as I understand it, it stays at that location in the TM30 system until a new TM30 report comes along to replace it. I don't find anything hard to comprehend about that.

 

[brewsterbudgen]

Chaengwattana are certainly giving out different information to different people. Maybe it depends on the type of Extension. Our teachers have been told that once a TM30 is on file, a new one only needs to be completed if they move to a new permanent address.

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