Non-O extension. Next Year Must Have Health Insurance

[ThaiBunny]

3 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

Hospital and health care is tons cheaper here more than any western country.

Any chance of reporting comparable costs from, say, the G20 countries vs. Thailand? I'm talking costs to the consumer ie. the person who actually pays

Edited July 12, 2019 by ThaiBunny

[Matzzon]

11 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Back home, vacation here and then back to retire in 2005.  I'm reading this thread to gain some knowledge about the requirements for Insurance Retirement Extensions.  Not to listen to lectures on Insurance money management.  I wish you would stop the off topic stuff and discuss the topic which is, "Non-O extension. Next Year Must Have Health Insurance."

Ok, you got it. The requirements as for now, we only know the ones that not even sailed throug for OA visa. They are 400K inpatient and 40K outpatient. Thats the only thing we know yet. Nothing else has been informed of. Looks like pacific cross has the one with best price according to value.

The is no order out for next year must have health insurance for any other visa or any extensions yet. This thread is started out of hear say from one single person talking to one single immigration officer.

[Matzzon]

13 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

If I was in the US I would be covered one way or the other and those high prices are and should be for just that, the USA. 

Hospital and health care is tons cheaper here more than any western country. Probably because if you tried to sue you would never get anywhere and then would be counter sued for lible. So why wouldn't Thailand come up with a system like I stated for basic coverage as they would still tend to make loads of money. In a sense it is still 3rd world but better said a developing nation in many ways. An operation in the states would cost you just say $50k and here 150kbaht. Just  the facts as they are. So again why wouldn't they implement something like the system I mentioned as they have already suggested taking a pittance of a fee from tourists in order to have all of them covered. Almost sounds like you were an insurance salesman in your past life and finding every way to guard and protect why it should be high cost as a golden business and everyone needs to have it or should not be here..

 

So based on the surgery and care cost as example I gave you from US compared to Thailand, yes, why wouldn't they derive a real non gouging system based on just say 10k or even 15k per year having limitations? Don't try to keep putting Thailand in the upper echelon of health care costs when in most ways the midline hospitals besides the way too high priced ones like BGH or Bumrungrad, etc are very good and 75% cheaper than western ones. So, for me I will be ok for now while in my mid - later 50's, but for many of older folk retiree it is a death march order.

 

By saying Holy Cow! you insulted my religion. Just kidding! it is exactly how you said it! : )

i can relate to what you are stating. No problem, and by the way. Never sold an insurance in my life. Just my standing opinion that moving to another country will create the need of sufficient cover. 

[marcusarelus]

4 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Ok, you got it. The requirements as for now, we only know the ones that not even sailed throug for OA visa. They are 400K inpatient and 40K outpatient. Thats the only thing we know yet. Nothing else has been informed of. Looks like pacific cross has the one with best price according to value.

The is no order out for next year must have health insurance for any other visa or any extensions yet. This thread is started out of hear say from one single person talking to one single immigration officer.

Thanks.  We also know the insurance requirements for the O-X visa which one would imagine would be a model for any further insurance regulations.  

[Thaidream]

32 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

I do not see any other countries feeling the need to be kind and fair like you wish to express it. Why in the world would Thailand be that about a thing that everybody automatically should know they need as soon as they set down in a foreign country? Just because you think its the fair and kind way that you want it to be done?

You are completely wrong!

 

Every industrialised country in the World has Government sponsored Health - except the USA.  In America when one gets healthcare they are at the mercy of the insurance companies. There is no National Healthcare except when one reaches age 65- It is called medicare and In patient care is free and I might add financed by 1.45% of one's salary deducted and sent to the Government.  It does not cover out patient care and cannot be used overseas.

 

In Austral;ia; UK; Japan: France and even Mexico- there is Government sponsored healthcare provided through a Government scheme in which the patient incurs NO cost except in Japan they pay  1,00 Japanese Yen(about $10.00)  All  these Governments recognize Healthcare as a human right and  no one goes without it in these countries.  Unlike the Us- where millions have to go to court and  ultimately end up in bankruptcy  over the inability to pay outrageous medical bills.

 

In some countries- a person can purchase their own health insurance and not use the Government scheme if they desire and it's cost is equivalent to what private insurance is in the US.   Expensive

 

The For Profit Insurance industry is interested in one thing-profit.  Their  arrangement with the Pharmaceutical industry and For profit hospitals is incestuous=they take care of each other by keeping the costs high.  Tell me how you plan for the future under such conditions

 

As far as purchasing insurance 20-30 years before retiring in Thailand  to keep costs down is a pipe dream. I speak from experience-  My wife and I had an American medical policy from the Us and started with premium of $200 per month.  She developed cancer and when we moved to Thailand received treatment from the Thai Cancer Institute.  We had to pay first and send receipts for reimbursement. After the first year- the premiums doubled, until eventually after 4 years they came in over $1200 per month.  Reimbursements took 30 days by check (They refused direct deposit)  Then check clearance took another 30 days.  This  insurance company -one of the largest in the US did everything possible to delay payments or work with US to  make premiums affordable.  Their goal was to force us out of the system either by cost or death and they succeeded.

 

Everyone needs and wants medical care- but private insurance and the way the medical industry in America operates is NOT what people need. People need a scheme in which the Government provides care and in Thailand- the Social Security scheme works well- 

 

If I am not mistaken Thais pay around 500 Baht per month .  I would recommend a 1,ooo Baht per month fee (12,000 per year) for full coverage- in and outpatient. The applicant would sign up us required and be given a Health card usable at any Thai Government Hospital and any private hospital that would participate.

 

Instead, those of us long stayers in Thailand pay as we go and many use  Government Hospitals.  It is beyond my comprehension that any hospital gets 'stiffed' for the bill- We report our address every 90 days to Immigration .

 

The medical plan under the O-X Visa is ridiculous- The premium for those over 60 is way too high for the coverage afforded and no one needs the out patient care which drives the cost even higher.  These plans are developed solely on the basis of profit and have no purpose except to make money for an elite group of companies and their directors. The methodology of these companies is based upon the US and UK private insurance system which is to provide as little coverage as possible for as much as possible.

 

The Thai Cabinet has already approved  a medical mandate for the O-X and possibly the O-A Visa.  The devil is in the details and how it  will be managed.  There are very few O-X Visas issued and can remember only 1 that has ever posted that they had it.  

 

If the  Police order mandates insurance coverage for the issuance of the O-A and it must only come from  selected Thai Companies- very few of thee Visas will be issued because there will be no demand.  At the very least-  the fair thing would be to grandfather anyone currently on an O-a and apply it to only new applicants/

 

 

[sweatalot]

15 hours ago, wilailuk said:

it´s hit and miss with that mysterious language, you can bend and twist anything into meaning something totally different than first intended..

That's true. Once I said in Thai:

My wife is coming.

But they understood she is a horse

[userabcd]

1 hour ago, fishtank said:

This thread is about a nonsense rumour with no truth in it.

There is no mandatory health insurance for retirement extensions.

And hopefully there never will be.

Well as expected, the topic has sure got a reaction and seems to ruffle the feathers of many.

[Thaidream]

2 minutes ago, userabcd said:

Well as expected, the topic has sure got a reaction and seems to ruffle the feathers of many.

Ruffles more than my feathers because I have experienced how medical insurance really works.

 

The only way forward for humanity is to start with the concept that  medical care is a human right not a privilege. Every person has the right of life.

 

The solution is to take the profit- the greed- the manipulation and corruption- out of the equation and then the system becomes affordable and available to everyone.

[holy cow cm]

13 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

i can relate to what you are stating. No problem, and by the way. Never sold an insurance in my life. Just my standing opinion that moving to another country will create the need of sufficient cover. 

Thank you. There simply has to be a fair affordable system in place for all. and 10-15k seems to fit perfectly for young and old without gouging and unbelievably ripping people off like US companies are allowed to do.

[expatfromwyoming]

The interpretation of one IO- nothing is set in concrete at this point- even when it is confusion will still reign supreme amongst those enforcing it

[Matzzon]

3 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

Thank you. There simply has to be a fair affordable system in place for all. and 10-15k seems to fit perfectly for young and old without gouging and unbelievably ripping people off like US companies are allowed to do.

Unfortunately, that will never happen. 10-15k per year is far to low. I would say you will be happy to find between 25k-50k for ages between 45-70. Unfortunately, that´s how it looks. That´s why I am pressing so hard on the value of having an insurance already the first year here, because it would be the same low price every year disregarding age. ????

[Saraphee]

6 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

What about when the insurance (or self insurance) you've got doesn't fit their criteria, which are badly thought through by any assessment? 400k inpatient is ridiculously small for a serious medical situation, where 40k outpatient is absurdly high and totally unnecessary. 

I have just spent over 40K on Scans and Tests plus Meds. It's not that hard to do....................

[brewsterbudgen]

Call and ask.  It's the agent that Sheryl recommended.  

Why would anyone want outpatient cover only? Coverage for a cold but no coverage for appendicitis or heart attack. Crazy!!

Sent from my SM-A500F using Tapatalk

[Matzzon]

24 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

You are completely wrong!

 

Every industrialised country in the World has Government sponsored Health - except the USA.  In America when one gets healthcare they are at the mercy of the insurance companies. There is no National Healthcare except when one reaches age 65- It is called medicare and In patient care is free and I might add financed by 1.45% of one's salary deducted and sent to the Government.  It does not cover out patient care and cannot be used overseas.

 

In Austral;ia; UK; Japan: France and even Mexico- there is Government sponsored healthcare provided through a Government scheme in which the patient incurs NO cost except in Japan they pay  1,00 Japanese Yen(about $10.00)  All  these Governments recognize Healthcare as a human right and  no one goes without it in these countries.  Unlike the Us- where millions have to go to court and  ultimately end up in bankruptcy  over the inability to pay outrageous medical bills.

 

In some countries- a person can purchase their own health insurance and not use the Government scheme if they desire and it's cost is equivalent to what private insurance is in the US.   Expensive

 

The For Profit Insurance industry is interested in one thing-profit.  Their  arrangement with the Pharmaceutical industry and For profit hospitals is incestuous=they take care of each other by keeping the costs high.  Tell me how you plan for the future under such conditions

 

As far as purchasing insurance 20-30 years before retiring in Thailand  to keep costs down is a pipe dream. I speak from experience-  My wife and I had an American medical policy from the Us and started with premium of $200 per month.  She developed cancer and when we moved to Thailand received treatment from the Thai Cancer Institute.  We had to pay first and send receipts for reimbursement. After the first year- the premiums doubled, until eventually after 4 years they came in over $1200 per month.  Reimbursements took 30 days by check (They refused direct deposit)  Then check clearance took another 30 days.  This  insurance company -one of the largest in the US did everything possible to delay payments or work with US to  make premiums affordable.  Their goal was to force us out of the system either by cost or death and they succeeded.

 

Everyone needs and wants medical care- but private insurance and the way the medical industry in America operates is NOT what people need. People need a scheme in which the Government provides care and in Thailand- the Social Security scheme works well- 

 

If I am not mistaken Thais pay around 500 Baht per month .  I would recommend a 1,ooo Baht per month fee (12,000 per year) for full coverage- in and outpatient. The applicant would sign up us required and be given a Health card usable at any Thai Government Hospital and any private hospital that would participate.

 

Instead, those of us long stayers in Thailand pay as we go and many use  Government Hospitals.  It is beyond my comprehension that any hospital gets 'stiffed' for the bill- We report our address every 90 days to Immigration .

 

The medical plan under the O-X Visa is ridiculous- The premium for those over 60 is way too high for the coverage afforded and no one needs the out patient care which drives the cost even higher.  These plans are developed solely on the basis of profit and have no purpose except to make money for an elite group of companies and their directors. The methodology of these companies is based upon the US and UK private insurance system which is to provide as little coverage as possible for as much as possible.

 

The Thai Cabinet has already approved  a medical mandate for the O-X and possibly the O-A Visa.  The devil is in the details and how it  will be managed.  There are very few O-X Visas issued and can remember only 1 that has ever posted that they had it.  

 

If the  Police order mandates insurance coverage for the issuance of the O-A and it must only come from  selected Thai Companies- very few of thee Visas will be issued because there will be no demand.  At the very least-  the fair thing would be to grandfather anyone currently on an O-a and apply it to only new applicants/

 

 

A load of bull. You wrote so much so it would take a week to respond to all. I will just take an example. If a Thai citizen settle down as retired in France. Will that one have the health benefits you are saying nobody is without. Answer: No, that person will have to by an insurance.

You are comparing beeing a citizen in a country with living abroad as a non citizen, which is totally misleading. To be eligible for what you are stating you must either be a citizen in the specific country or through unions and agreements be a part of it.

[holy cow cm]

3 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Unfortunately, that will never happen. 10-15k per year is far to low. I would say you will be happy to find between 25k-50k for ages between 45-70. Unfortunately, that´s how it looks. That´s why I am pressing so hard on the value of having an insurance already the first year here, because it would be the same low price every year disregarding age. ????

Unfortunately that is what it looks like. But not out of my reach, but is just is unreasonable. I am actually married to a Thai and have a few kids now almost all grown. So this also ticks me off as immersed as I am here. 

[smedly]

56 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Nope, that the wrong way of thinking. It´s just to understand. Your savings is not a security for you paying your hospital bill in Thailand.

yes it is - and it is a lot more than 400k baht

 

you sound to me like a bitter compulsive complainer that has made choices "you" are not happy with - like paying hefty insurance rip off annual payments and never getting anything from it - you made a choice - nobody is saying you made the wrong choice - it was your choice - other people do things differently - self insurance is one of them - provided of course if you have the funds to do it

 

This so called compulsory 400kbaht insurance proposal is simply a waste and a scam if it is implemented, Immigration want people to maintain 400k balance in their accounts 12 months a year - I have no problem with that

[thasoss]

wimpy, your post will open up a can of worms,sometimes it's better to not say anything until it becomes official.Logic says it will come in at some stage and create so many problems for many people who have lived here a long time and maybe too old to get cover.I did check gold cross for cover for age group 65-70 and the cover(only up to 300,000 baht inpatient) was approx. 100,000 baht per annum.I dont know about anybody else,but do you want to fork out that kind of money for the privilege of staying here?

[lamyai3]

1 minute ago, Saraphee said:

I have just spent over 40K on Scans and Tests plus Meds. It's not that hard to do....................

CT scans are expensive, especially if you use one of the pricier private hospitals. I had an excellent new year promotional package of health tests at one of the hospitals in Bangkok (several do them), covering about ten separate tests including cholesterol and a few other blood tests, urinalysis, EKG, abdominal ultrasound, chest x-ray and a doctor review. The whole thing cost 4300 baht. I'm not complacent about it however and realise bills can accumulate very fast when something serious arises. 

[Mike Teavee]

8 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

A load of bull. You wrote so much so it would take a week to respond to all. I will just take an example. If a Thai citizen settle down as retired in France. Will that one have the health benefits you are saying nobody is without. Answer: No, that person will have to by an insurance.

You are comparing beeing a citizen in a country with living abroad as a non citizen, which is totally misleading. To be eligible for what you are stating you must either be a citizen in the specific country or through unions and agreements be a part of it.

If a Thai person married to a UK guy settles into the UK then there is a surcharge to pay initially but they are entitled to use the NHS, it would be even easier for the same couple if they moved to France or one of the other EU countries as they would have access without paying anything (it's ironic that the spouses of EU citizens living in an EU Country that's not the EU Citizen's "Home" country have more rights than they would if they lived in the EU Citizen's home country)

Edited July 12, 2019 by Mike Teavee

[Thaidream]

13 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Unfortunately, that will never happen. 10-15k per year is far to low. I would say you will be happy to find between 25k-50k for ages between 45-70. Unfortunately, that´s how it looks. That´s why I am pressing so hard on the value of having an insurance already the first year here, because it would be the same low price every year disregarding age.

It is not the same price- it will go up and if you use the coverage it will go up again and again.   For profit medical insurance is interested in only one thing- profit and how much they can squeeze from you.

[Saraphee]

2 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

CT scans are expensive, especially if you use one of the pricier private hospitals. I had an excellent new year promotional package of health tests at one of the hospitals in Bangkok (several do them), covering about ten separate tests including cholesterol and a few other blood tests, urinalysis, EKG, abdominal ultrasound, chest x-ray and a doctor review. The whole thing cost 4300 baht. I'm not complacent about it however and realise bills can accumulate very fast when something serious arises. 

Just what happened - years of tests and minor ailments at reasonable cost and then to diagnose the exception 2 CT scans at Sriphat and the other tests and consultations involved - it soon mounts up!

[wimpy]

9 minutes ago, thasoss said:

wimpy, your post will open up a can of worms,sometimes it's better to not say anything until it becomes official.Logic says it will come in at some stage and create so many problems for many people who have lived here a long time and maybe too old to get cover.I did check gold cross for cover for age group 65-70 and the cover(only up to 300,000 baht inpatient) was approx. 100,000 baht per annum.I dont know about anybody else,but do you want to fork out that kind of money for the privilege of staying here?

I disagree. If this is going to be implemented, the sooner I know, the better. I want enough time to choose my plan of action. I hope others will post any info from government sources, confirmed or otherwise,  when they hear it. Though it is understandable if they don't, considering the bashing they may get on this forum as the bearer of bad news.

[thasoss]

49 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

the  Police order mandates insurance coverage for the issuance of the O-A and it must only come from  selected Thai Companies- very few of thee Visas will be issued because there will be no demand.  At the very least-  the fair thing would be to grandfather anyone currently on an O-a and apply it to only new applicants/

one can live and hope 

[thasoss]

1 minute ago, wimpy said:

disagree. If this is going to be implemented, the sooner I know, the better. I want enough time to choose my plan of action. I hope others will post any info from government sources, confirmed or otherwise,  when they hear it. Though it is understandable if they don't, considering the bashing they may get on this forum as the bearer of bad news.

you dont think people already are thinking "what to do"....but your post is from a minor IO....in an obscure office, a comment with no official recognition.

[wimpy]

2 minutes ago, thasoss said:

you dont think people already are thinking "what to do"....but your post is from a minor IO....in an obscure office, a comment with no official recognition.

The more data points the better.

 

Interestingly, no mention was made of this requirement by this same officer when she was checking my documents about a month ago, and giving me my appointment for yesterday's visit. This makes me suspect something is about to happen.

[Matzzon]

26 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

It is not the same price- it will go up and if you use the coverage it will go up again and again.   For profit medical insurance is interested in only one thing- profit and how much they can squeeze from you.

If you start pay at a certain age, then you have the same price until their regulation states that they can not cover you no more. Otherwise you chose a bad one.

[Matzzon]

32 minutes ago, smedly said:

yes it is - and it is a lot more than 400k baht

 

you sound to me like a bitter compulsive complainer that has made choices "you" are not happy with - like paying hefty insurance rip off annual payments and never getting anything from it - you made a choice - nobody is saying you made the wrong choice - it was your choice - other people do things differently - self insurance is one of them - provided of course if you have the funds to do it

 

This so called compulsory 400kbaht insurance proposal is simply a waste and a scam if it is implemented, Immigration want people to maintain 400k balance in their accounts 12 months a year - I have no problem with that

Where do you get your ideas about that I would be bitter. I am just stating that you should be smart and buy an insurance the first year you settle down in a country, and not complain later. I have all the coverage I need, and so doas my family and my dogs. That´s what happens when you take care of yourself and the ones you love. Even my cat is insured.

If you fell like they are forcing a totally natural protection that you should already have out of common sense on you, don´t blame me for that.

By the way, I don´t make mistakes. I leave that to the rest of the population.

[Matzzon]

42 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

Unfortunately that is what it looks like. But not out of my reach, but is just is unreasonable. I am actually married to a Thai and have a few kids now almost all grown. So this also ticks me off as immersed as I am here. 

Never said the prices are resonable. That´s a single individuals opinion. I am just out of the breed that considers an insurace a natural choice.

[Thaidream]

11 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

f you start pay at a certain age, then you have the same price until their regulation states that they can not cover you no more. Otherwise you chose a bad one.

If you have American insurance and you use it for coverage- it will go up. I ought to know and if you read my post prior- I said I and wife had US Medical coverage and in 4 years the premium went from$200 per month to $1200 per month.  If you never use it the price may remain the same for years until you start to age and then it will go up higher and higher.

 

By the way- while I won't name the Company - it was a top tier US company and now is in Thailand. Don't tell me i chose a bad one- they are all bad and all are thieves.

 

You, like many Americans have been brainwashed by years of slick marketing that makes you think for profit medical care is the only way.  Look around the World-  the majority of the industrrialsed World  has National healthcare coverage-  only the US has  the type of medical care that forces people into bankruptcy.  It doesn't happen in Europe-Australia-Japan-UK-Canada- or even Mexico.   Wake Up!!

 

Edited July 12, 2019 by Thaidream

[holy cow cm]

7 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Never said the prices are resonable. That´s a single individuals opinion. I am just out of the breed that considers an insurace a natural choice.

And that is my whole point. Inflated way too high and will still not use it for fear of being dropped here. And then the pre existing conditions will render it useless anyway.