Thai tourism in trouble: And competitor Vietnam is "scary" for Pattaya

[phycokiller]

17 minutes ago, Ron jeremy said:

Stay the <deleted> away, I can actually sit on the beach promenade, and not beside some drunk or hooker. And stare out at a clean ocean, drinking a 50 cent beer. Don't turn this into soi buckow!????????

I didnt realize there was ever a beach promenade on soi buckow

[tideout]

On 7/23/2019 at 6:21 PM, CNXexpat said:

No double pricing in Vietnam (Hanoi) at tourist attractions. 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post and if so, no offense intended. I'm also going a bit off your post to save time. Again, no offense.

One of the most common scams here in the Ben Thanh market area is to give a certain colored shopping bag to tourists who've come through and bought something a specifically colored shopping bag. This bag indicates another shop has marked them as suckers for a big up-sell.

Lying and scamming here in Vietnam, not limited to but particularly any tourist area is as second nature as breathing.

I'll repeat a few things from other posts but it may be worth something to a few.

There is no retirement visa.

The previously easy to get "business visa" which lasted for a year and might otherwise be known as the retirement and beer visa, is becoming much, much harder to get. I personally know people who are being denied that visa who are not only well connected but have been here before on that visa. Illegal, "coffee money" versions of everything from drivers licenses to permits are getting second and third looks and are much more likely to a "no" response. 

Don't like waves of Chinese tourists or Indians in your Thai city? I don't have time to go into it but trust me the increase in Africans, Indians and Chinese related deals here is rapidly on the increase.

I could go on about this but there are too many details that one could go into.......

 

Edited August 28, 2019 by tideout

[chrissables]

On 8/26/2019 at 6:31 PM, sunnyboy2018 said:

Travelling by motor bike is a different form independent travel añd which only a tiny minority of people do. I applaud your adventurous spirit. However, to compare a country to a city, as this article tries to do  is silly. Northern Thailand,  Central Thailand and Issan have places of equal beauty to the places in your photographs. Thailand has a much deeper, richer culture with music  theatre and glorious colour all of which is cheap and accessible. Vietnam has nothing to compare.  I travel solo and independently in Thailand but found in Vietnam it was all about organised tour groups which is something I never felt the need to do in Thailand. I enjoyed Vietnam and shall probably return. I cant say the same for Cambodia or the Philippines.

I was having a friendly dig about Issan. There are nice places all around Thailand, i have ridden maybe 100,000 km, north to south and east to west, there are great views, but Vietnam seems to have them in abundance and not in pay as you go National Parks.
Vietnam by public transport would not be fun and would be restrictive in what you can see. A motorbike is the best way to see the sights. But that's not everybody.

Cambodia i liked for the old temples, the countryside is nice in places, but nothing special, with few exceptions. Bokor mountain, now it's been resurfaced and Preah Vihear on the Thai border, again in the mountains. I have not traveled to the Philippines yet. ???? 

[DrTuner]

About travelling with bike: Do the rural Vietnamese speak any English?

[Leaver]

6 hours ago, chrissables said:

I was having a friendly dig about Issan. There are nice places all around Thailand, i have ridden maybe 100,000 km, north to south and east to west, there are great views, but Vietnam seems to have them in abundance and not in pay as you go National Parks.
Vietnam by public transport would not be fun and would be restrictive in what you can see. A motorbike is the best way to see the sights. But that's not everybody.

Cambodia i liked for the old temples, the countryside is nice in places, but nothing special, with few exceptions. Bokor mountain, now it's been resurfaced and Preah Vihear on the Thai border, again in the mountains. I have not traveled to the Philippines yet. ???? 

Google "Top Gear Vietnam Youtube." 

 

It was rated as one of their best episodes.

 

There is a whole industry now offering motorbike tours of various lengths and directions. 

 

Buying a cheap bike and doing it independently is popular among the backpackers. 

[chrissables]

3 hours ago, Leaver said:

Google "Top Gear Vietnam Youtube." 

 

It was rated as one of their best episodes.

 

There is a whole industry now offering motorbike tours of various lengths and directions. 

 

Buying a cheap bike and doing it independently is popular among the backpackers. 

Seen the Top Gear special

 

Ridden two three month trips around the country, links below. Leaving for another 3 months soon. So hooked i am ????

 

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/963199-motorbike-travel-around-vietnam/

 

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1050350-motorbike-travel-around-vietnamagain/

 

 

[jacko45k]

18 hours ago, Leaver said:

Google "Top Gear Vietnam Youtube." 

 

It was rated as one of their best episodes.

 

There is a whole industry now offering motorbike tours of various lengths and directions. 

 

Buying a cheap bike and doing it independently is popular among the backpackers. 

Probably outdated now but a fantastic episode and a good true introduction to Vietnam. (Although I doubt I would risk my life doing that journey wholly on a small bike.)

[Leaver]

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Probably outdated now but a fantastic episode and a good true introduction to Vietnam. (Although I doubt I would risk my life doing that journey wholly on a small bike.)

I agree.  I found the episode to be a realistic account of doing such a tour in Vietnam. 

 

I've hired scooters in Vietnam and done some exploring outside of some of the major tourist destinations.  More or less independent day trips, but I would always return to the city and my hotel that night.  If you just ride slow and defensively, it's fine. 

 

Another member asked about English in the rural areas.  My experience was there was very little to no English in the rural areas, but the curious locals are eager to please and to try to communicate.   

 

I laugh when many times they have the tiny plastic chairs to sit on, and in walks a big foreigner.  I would point to the little chair and roll my eyes with a smile.  They would quickly run inside and bring out one of their dining table chairs with smiles all around. 

 

You can get by with a few main words of Vietnamese and Google translate. 

[Percy P]

On 8/28/2019 at 11:48 AM, Leaver said:

Oh Oh, but with 50 cent beers it must be a 3rd World slum with no infrastructure.  Right?  ????????

Rubbish talk, I visit Cambodia now and again and I drink beer their at 50 cent a large glass. Infrastructure didn't matter but every thing is ok. I travel down to the capital on the new road no problem,I've also travelled on it as it was left after the Americans bombed it. 

[Leaver]

12 hours ago, Percy P said:

Rubbish talk, I visit Cambodia now and again and I drink beer their at 50 cent a large glass. Infrastructure didn't matter but every thing is ok. I travel down to the capital on the new road no problem,I've also travelled on it as it was left after the Americans bombed it. 

Did you see the two laughing faces at the end of my post?  It's called sarcasm. 

 

When you say "traveled down to the capital" do you mean Ho Chi Minh City?  If so, Ho Chi Minh City is not the capital of Vietnam, Hanoi is.   

[Leaver]

On 8/29/2019 at 10:45 AM, chrissables said:

A motorbike is the best way to see the sights. But that's not everybody.

Some middle aged western couples hire a car and driver for the duration of their trip.  It's really cheap, but most fly to the major cities, and then hire a car and driver for 1 or 2 nights, and then fly to the next major city and do the same again.

 

They ask the driver how much he requires for his own accommodation, not in the same hotel, with the driver finding a cheap mini hotel nearby.  The driver's food and other expenses are in the total price.  It's a good option for many.  The Vietnamese also do this when traveling for a wedding or family function. 

 

 

[Leaver]

On 8/29/2019 at 8:39 PM, chrissables said:

Seen the Top Gear special

 

Ridden two three month trips around the country, links below. Leaving for another 3 months soon. So hooked i am ????

 

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/963199-motorbike-travel-around-vietnam/

 

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1050350-motorbike-travel-around-vietnamagain/

 

 

What do you do for a Vietnam license?

[chrissables]

38 minutes ago, Leaver said:

What do you do for a Vietnam license?

A Thai licence (ASEAN) is accepted.

[Leaver]

On 9/5/2019 at 1:54 PM, chrissables said:

A Thai licence (ASEAN) is accepted.

It may be accepted by police, but I was thinking more along the lines of medical insurance, should you have an accident. 

 

Does your insurance company say riding in Vietnam on a Thai license is riding legally in Vietnam? 

 

Last I heard, Vietnam didn't recognize International Driving Permits either.

[Leaver]

On 8/28/2019 at 12:49 AM, Seeall said:

never give AU banks the chance, they have craprates..... move AU to Thai holding account.. check charts and rates and exchange when it is up... costs AUD 23 and 22 THB this end...

You would have to transfer quite a lot of money to get your $23AUD + 22THB transfer fees back, to make use of a Thai bank's slightly better rates. 

 

Worth doing if you were buying a property here, but probably not worth it if only coming for a 2 week holiday. 

[kinyara]

I'd suggest if your planning a long term retirement move to Vietnam you really find out the current visa situation from those living there as everything I'm reading from expat Vietnam residents is that the government are currently clamping down on the issuance of 1 year visas to anyone but Americans. You'll get 3 months for sure and someone I know was offered his 6 month visa, ( reduced from a 1 year previously ), for $650 which he refused and is now leaving. If you can't get a 1 year you can't open a bank account and I guess obtain a driving licence much like here in Thailand. If you are worried about Thailand it looks currently very much like out of the frying pan into the fire as far as Vietnam is concerned.

[kinyara]

On 8/26/2019 at 8:32 PM, Leaver said:

Do you think your experience is indicative of many? 

 

Check out the activity on the visa forum over the last 6 months. 

 

Actually my experience and those of my circle of retired friends was exactly the same. I went back last month to show my bank book balance staying above the required 90 days after visa issuance and I didn't even need a ticket from the front desk, in and out in a couple of minutes with a pleasant " see you next year " from the IO.

 

If the numbers thin out because of those unwilling or unable to meet current requirement, the weakness of their home currencies relative to the baht, weakness in tourist numbers and the wider economy given the massive drop in Foreign Direct Investment reported I'm more optimistic than pessimistic that it will remain fairly straightforward to stay here.

 

 

 

 

[Leaver]

9 hours ago, kinyara said:

I'd suggest if your planning a long term retirement move to Vietnam you really find out the current visa situation from those living there as everything I'm reading from expat Vietnam residents is that the government are currently clamping down on the issuance of 1 year visas to anyone but Americans. You'll get 3 months for sure and someone I know was offered his 6 month visa, ( reduced from a 1 year previously ), for $650 which he refused and is now leaving. If you can't get a 1 year you can't open a bank account and I guess obtain a driving licence much like here in Thailand. If you are worried about Thailand it looks currently very much like out of the frying pan into the fire as far as Vietnam is concerned.

The only accurate part of your post is Americans get a 1 year multiple entry tourist visa for around $195USD.  No other hoops to jump through.

 

The rest of your post is inaccurate.

 

1 year visas are currently on hold.  There is no crackdown.  I expect them to be available again in the future.

 

You get a 3 month multiple entry visa for around $70USD.  This can be renewed 3 times inside Vietnam.  That totals a 1 year stay. 

 

After that 1 year, you have to leave, but can come straight back again.  There is no "back to back" or "too many tourist visas" BS like in Thailand.  Many expats are living in Vietnam this way.

 

The married expats get a 5 year multiple entry visa for around $50USD. 

 

Bank account and drivers license can be obtained with a 3 month tourist visa, and foreigners can own property in a similar style as foreigners own land in Thailand. 

 

 

[Leaver]

9 hours ago, kinyara said:

 

Actually my experience and those of my circle of retired friends was exactly the same. I went back last month to show my bank book balance staying above the required 90 days after visa issuance and I didn't even need a ticket from the front desk, in and out in a couple of minutes with a pleasant " see you next year " from the IO.

 

If the numbers thin out because of those unwilling or unable to meet current requirement, the weakness of their home currencies relative to the baht, weakness in tourist numbers and the wider economy given the massive drop in Foreign Direct Investment reported I'm more optimistic than pessimistic that it will remain fairly straightforward to stay here.

 

 

 

 

Don't you mean "see you in 90 days?" 

 

There is a big difference between "unwilling" and "unable" to meet current requirements.  I know some snowbirds that are simply unwilling to comply, and now holiday in Vietnam. 

 

You can be as optimistic as you like about being able to remain in Thailand, but Vietnam has a pay as you go visa system.  Pay your money, here's your visa.  That's it.  No other hoops to jump through.  Now that's what I call "straightforward."  ????

[Inn Between]

On 8/28/2019 at 12:01 AM, tideout said:

One of the most common scams here in the Ben Thanh market area is to give a certain colored shopping bag to tourists who've come through and bought something a specifically colored shopping bag. This bag indicates another shop has marked them as suckers for a big up-sell.

This is an urban myth that exists for every SE Asian country. I remember hearing of pink bags in Phuket to let the other merchants know that the tourist is an easy mark. I suspect this type of monkey business has happened, but I really don't think it's a common thing.  

[Ron jeremy]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

The only accurate part of your post is Americans get a 1 year multiple entry tourist visa for around $195USD.  No other hoops to jump through.

 

The rest of your post is inaccurate.

 

1 year visas are currently on hold.  There is no crackdown.  I expect them to be available again in the future.

 

You get a 3 month multiple entry visa for around $70USD.  This can be renewed 3 times inside Vietnam.  That totals a 1 year stay. 

 

After that 1 year, you have to leave, but can come straight back again.  There is no "back to back" or "too many tourist visas" BS like in Thailand.  Many expats are living in Vietnam this way.

 

The married expats get a 5 year multiple entry visa for around $50USD. 

 

Bank account and drivers license can be obtained with a 3 month tourist visa, and foreigners can own property in a similar style as foreigners own land in Thailand. 

 

 

Thanks for the ACCURATE info, far too much BS from people that have no <deleted> idea what they are talking about.

same as the last post about giving customers a coloured bag.

[Max69xl]

On 8/28/2019 at 10:33 AM, Leaver said:

Sure, but one of the many golden rules of Thailand, and South East Asia in general, is pay as you go. 

 

I am not moving 21,000GBP into an unstable country, and lose access to 10,500GBP of it, which only earns around 1.5%, just so I can do my own retirement visa and extensions. 

 

 

I disagree.  I will not let the Thai government lock up my money.  Simple as that. 

 

I will not be forced to inject 800k into the Thai banking system.  I will happily leave Thailand, with no complaints, if that becomes the only option to remain here.

 

Yes, using agents makes it easier, and probably cheaper, when you consider my 21,000GBP is earning way more than 1.5% sitting in a Thai bank, and I keep control of it. 

 

It will be interesting if they allow them to continue to operate, not only this first year, but for next year. 

 

I have spoken to a lot of people who have used agents this year, and at this stage, there's been no problems. 

 

I admit I was lazy with the 65,000 baht method.  I easily meet this criteria, but after reading about it has to be a certain transfer code, you have to bring your bank book every 90 days, and all the other BS, I decided to either use an agent here, or go to Vietnam. If I decide to stay, I will use an agent the first year, and start on the 65,000 baht method. 

 

I know the practice of using an agent for this purpose is illegal, so not too happy about it, but This Is Thailand. 

 

Vietnam does not have any of this money in the bank requirements.  Pay your money, here's your visa. It's a lot easier.  You do have to leave once a year, but that's no problem for me. 

 

 

"you have to bring your bank book every 90 days"

Where do you have to bring your bank book every 90 days? 

There's no such requirement.

[Leaver]

2 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

"you have to bring your bank book every 90 days"

Where do you have to bring your bank book every 90 days? 

There's no such requirement.

There are reports that certain immigration offices require expats to bring their bank book to the office when doing their 90 day report. 

 

This is to see the expats haven't gone under the 800k during the seasoning period, and under the 400k at any point throughout the year.

 

This has been the topic of a few threads recently.

 

[lkv]

24 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Where do you have to bring your bank book every 90 days? 

There's no such requirement.

 

Edited September 7, 2019 by lkv

[jacko45k]

5 hours ago, Leaver said:

This is to see the expats haven't gone under the 800k during the seasoning period, and under the 400k at any point throughout the year.

 

This has been the topic of a few threads recently

I have heard of this happening 3 months after extension renewal in Jomtiem, Chiang Rai and some other place. But not elsewhere, nor beyond the 3 months, checking for the 400k. And I pore over this forum a good bit. 

Also it is not usually associated with the regular 90 day report. Some smaller IOs attempted to realign the 90 day report so that the 800k check could be done at the same time.

At this time, needing your bank book to do 90 day reports is not likely.

[kinyara]

11 hours ago, Leaver said:

The only accurate part of your post is Americans get a 1 year multiple entry tourist visa for around $195USD.  No other hoops to jump through.

 

The rest of your post is inaccurate.

 

1 year visas are currently on hold.  There is no crackdown.  I expect them to be available again in the future.

 

You get a 3 month multiple entry visa for around $70USD.  This can be renewed 3 times inside Vietnam.  That totals a 1 year stay. 

 

 

 

Not at all in fact you have just reiterated what I said, you cannot get a 1 year visa.  " Currently on hold ", ( when is a clampdown not a clampdown ), and I expect them to be available again in the future - well I guess we can sleep easy because you have a feeling it might be available in the future, care to put a timeframe on your expectation, what have those in charge personally told you  ?

 

3 months is what I stated you will get and you agreed. However you point out for the benefit of those who find it inconvenient and a massive hoop to do a 5 minute visit to Thai immigration every 90 days you can have the pleasure of renewing that 3 month visa in Vietnam every 90 days for the cost of a Thai retirement visa each time.  Sounds great.

 

PS Retirement bank balance only required to be shown once 90 days after visa issue in Jomtien, since you're a stickler for accuracy.

 

Anyway I wish you luck in Vietnam, no point remaining in a country where a few photocopies and an hour of your time a year is such a hardship for you. When are your leaving ?

[cerox]

I leave Thailand in 5 weeks, will still come to visit every now and then.

 

Why spend 30k USD on Elite and plan my life ahead for 20 years when I can live in other countries who have developed a lot too. Pay as you go as someone here said before is also my thinking. Pay as you go was possible in some way for younger people with ED visa but now stopped.

 

For many retirees I think you complain on a high level; just deposit the 800k (it is still your money when you decide to leave)  - you have really no reasons to complain. Easy to get a visa.

 

Vietnam and Philippines both have easy visa. Philippines has SRRV visa starting at age 35; either invest in a condo or deposit 20k USD in bank. Second one is similar to retirement visa in TH when you lock some of your money, but I do not need to be 50 years old or buy myself into the Elite program.

[Rimmer]

Off topic posts discussing land ownership have been removed also replies

[Max69xl]

9 hours ago, lkv said:

 

Only 1 time! I have already done mine. It doesn't say every 90 days. It says to show >800k after 90 days. Nothing about the need for showing >400k rest of the year. 

Edited September 8, 2019 by Max69xl

[kinyara]

How is Thailand not "Pay as you go", I pay 1,900 baht a year get my annual visa and go.