Thinking about using an agent this year

[Jumbo1968]

2 hours ago, wgdanson said:

It is not gone for good, it's yours as soon as you take it out of the bank.

If you plan on living long term in Thailand on an Extension of Stay it’s not yours, it might be in name you can’t take it out under the current rules.

[Orton Rd]

The title of another thread re the government- zero tolerance to corruption, that being the case when are the agents and bent immigration officers going to be arrested?

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

It is if you do not have 800,000.

 

Some of the people I know who use agents are actually wealthy.

They just do not want the hassle as the agents handle everything for them.

Why not.

It is if you haven't got the 20,000 too, which you will never see again. 

An acquaintance of mine pays it because he has an aversion to putting the 800k in the local bank, which he wouldn't miss in the slightest. 

Takes all types. I always felt the 800k was handy emergency money too. Never felt comfortable supporting the bribery, yes I know it is how things get done here, doesn't make it right. About time this place sorted itself out and got to grips with the corruption.

[scubascuba3]

About time this place sorted itself out and got to grips with the corruption.

It's the corruption that keeps this place backwards so maybe it's a good thing

[jacko45k]

Just now, scubascuba3 said:

It's the corruption that keeps this place backwards so maybe it's a good thing

 

Yes, for some aspects it oils the cogs.... just depends on which end of it you are on!

[gamini]

17 hours ago, poohy said:

Yes of course  just put in the required time before

Agent in all probability will use a bank account opened   by her/him specifically for the visa so it wont effect your accounts

The agents are acting illegaly. And thats why the law has changed, i.e. you now have to leave the 800k for 8 months and 400k for the balance 4 months. This is to stop the agents putting up money for you. I dont think the agents are going to be happy keeping all the extra money in your bank account. Getting someone to put up money for you completely contradicts a retirement visa which requires sufficient funds to retire. The retirement extension in your passport could be considered illegial if you yourself dont have the required funds, Sooner or later the goverment will stamp out this practice. but it is so widespread that it will take time and also a lot of immigration officers are corruptly involved. Its people like you who try to circumvent retirement visa requirement who make it difficult for those that dont. If you have not got the money then you dont have the right for a retirement visa

[NoshowJones]

10 hours ago, simon43 said:

I agree.  Using an agent if you don't have the funds is akin to sending your passport out of the country for a visa stamp while you remain in Thailand - remember that scandal a few years ago?

 

Yes the visa stamp itself is real, just as with those stamped in the travelling passports.  But it was obtained under false pretences - no more no less.  Criminal fraud, and perhaps remember what happened to those who took part in the travelling passport scam.

 

Forum rules forbid me from saying what I really think about these discussions - total hypocrisy.

 

Were the people who took part in the traveling passport scam not pardoned? Or was that another one.

[Peterw42]

1 hour ago, gamini said:

The agents are acting illegaly. And thats why the law has changed, i.e. you now have to leave the 800k for 8 months and 400k for the balance 4 months. This is to stop the agents putting up money for you. I dont think the agents are going to be happy keeping all the extra money in your bank account. Getting someone to put up money for you completely contradicts a retirement visa which requires sufficient funds to retire. The retirement extension in your passport could be considered illegial if you yourself dont have the required funds, Sooner or later the goverment will stamp out this practice. but it is so widespread that it will take time and also a lot of immigration officers are corruptly involved. Its people like you who try to circumvent retirement visa requirement who make it difficult for those that dont. If you have not got the money then you dont have the right for a retirement visa

Where do you get 8 months from, its 2 months before and 3 months after, 5 months for the 800k.

 

You appear to be unaware of how agent extensions work, the agents are not doing anything illegal, they are in contact with high ranking immigration officers who can approve an extension without the funds in the bank or seasoning. Most agents put the money in your account for only a couple of days, so you meet the financial requirements just not the seasoning requirements.

 

 

Its a legal extension done by an immigration officer with the discretionary power to do so.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 27, 2019 by Peterw42

[Jumbo1968]

1 minute ago, Peterw42 said:

Where do you get 8 months from, its 2 months before and 3 months after, 5 months for the 800k.

 

You appear to be unaware of how agent extensions work, the agents are not doing anything illegal, they are in contact with high ranking immigration officers who can approve an extension without the funds in the bank or seasoning.

Its a legal extension done by an immigration officer with the discretionary power to do so.

 

 

Exactly and the Agent and Applicant are just offering a gratuity, it’s up to the IO wether he takes it or not.

 

 

[Pilotman]

1 hour ago, gamini said:

The agents are acting illegaly. And thats why the law has changed, i.e. you now have to leave the 800k for 8 months and 400k for the balance 4 months. This is to stop the agents putting up money for you. I dont think the agents are going to be happy keeping all the extra money in your bank account. Getting someone to put up money for you completely contradicts a retirement visa which requires sufficient funds to retire. The retirement extension in your passport could be considered illegial if you yourself dont have the required funds, Sooner or later the goverment will stamp out this practice. but it is so widespread that it will take time and also a lot of immigration officers are corruptly involved. Its people like you who try to circumvent retirement visa requirement who make it difficult for those that dont. If you have not got the money then you dont have the right for a retirement visa

excellent post. Lays it out for all to see, and consider. 

[Jumbo1968]

Just now, Pilotman said:

excellent post. Lays it out for all to see, and consider. 

So why are the Agents still openly advertising on Thai Visa, google retirement visa without funds and see how many Agents come up.

For me if I was using an Agent the first question I would be asking would be how they get round the new rules. Obviously they do as I don’t see many shutting up shop.

[Pilotman]

Just now, Jumbo1968 said:

Live and let live, it was quoted earlier that many people with money use Agents, they don’t want the sometimes hassle and queues at Immigration, if a service is available Bar Girl or otherwise it’s their choice if they want to pay for it, prostitution is illegal as well.

That's usually a different matter.  There is nothing inherently wrong in using an agent,  a few of my  friends do so, to avoid visits to Immigration, the crucial thing is that their seasoned bank account money is their own and the agent does not deal in the funding aspects,  just deals with the office  and paperwork , to avoid visits.  

[Mukdahanman]

If medical insurance ever becomes a compulsory requirement, I can see an awful lot of people switching to agents by necessity- me included.

[Pilotman]

1 minute ago, Jumbo1968 said:

So why are the Agents still openly advertising on Thai Visa, google retirement visa without funds and see how many Agents come up.

For me if I was using an Agent the first question I would be asking would be how they get round the new rules. Obviously they do as I don’t see many shutting up shop.

Looking for business.  As I said in a post above, nothing inherently wrong with using an agent if you want to avoid the paperwork and the visits. It's the ones that insist on doing the funding bit that are bent. 

[Jumbo1968]

2 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

That's usually a different matter.  There is nothing inherently wrong in using an agent,  a few of my  friends do so, to avoid visits to Immigration, the crucial thing is that their seasoned bank account money is their own and the agent does not deal in the funding aspects,  just deals with the office  and paperwork , to avoid visits.  

The thing is at least 400k they will never be in control of.

[Olmate]

5 hours ago, wgdanson said:

It is not gone for good, it's yours as soon as you take it out of the bank.

You know what that means,be honest it’s history till you burn!

[Olmate]

1 hour ago, Jumbo1968 said:

Exactly and the Agent and Applicant are just offering a gratuity, it’s up to the IO wether he takes it or not.

 

 

The applicant is not aware of any gratuity payment, just a fee for the agent to obtain the extension.

[connda]

20 hours ago, poohy said:

Agent in all probability will use a bank account opened   by her/him specifically for the visa so it wont effect your accounts

And it's illegal and perpetuates the continued corruption - but as long as agents can obtain authentic visa extension stamps for their clients who don't have the necessary fund - well, who care, 'eh.  And where do they get "authentic" visa extension stamps?  Must grow on trees, 'eh?

In the meantime, no doubt Immigration Enforcement will be busy sticking it to all the retired expats who are under a microscope for actually complying with the rules.

Expats doing extensions illegally via agent - no problem.
Expats complying with the rules - treat them like criminals and subject them to a bureaucratic nightmare, and threaten them with rules that aren't even in the Immigration Police Orders.  How wonderful!

 

So thanks to all you out there who are choosing to keep the corruption going in this corrupt country.  Good job fellas.

[connda]

3 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

The title of another thread re the government- zero tolerance to corruption, that being the case when are the agents and bent immigration officers going to be arrested?

Never!  Because it's all complete and utter Buffalo paddies. Knee-deep. 

[Peterw42]

Go to the website for one of the major agents in Pattaya and this pops up before you even get a chance to click on something.

Is it any different to paying a mortgage broker to get you a loan when the bank said no, or hiring a lawyer to go to court for you and win a case you would loose ? Like a broker or a lawyer, the agents have contacts, know the system and the rules, and one of those rules is "a high level IO can approve an extension without correct fund/seasoning.

Edited July 27, 2019 by Peterw42

[sameasb4]

if i was allowed to put the 800k in the bank when and however i choose i would not use an agent i travel a lot my legal cash allowances for entering are more than 800k annually and at better rates so the agent process works for me each to there own

Its never being illegal to use an agent to do a visa it issuance is at the discretion of the IO always.

Those who have other views and continue to push self process can express but do not make fake assertions we all get there in the end and like I say tomorrow is another day

Edited July 27, 2019 by sameasb4

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

You appear to be unaware of how agent extensions work, the agents are not doing anything illegal, they are in contact with high ranking immigration officers who can approve an extension without the funds in the bank or seasoning. Most agents put the money in your account for only a couple of days, so you meet the financial requirements just not the seasoning requirements.

Its a legal extension done by an immigration officer with the discretionary power to do so.

This is tongue-in-cheek, right? The whole reason for seasoning a few years ago was to curtail the dancing money ball that went to a new customer every day. Obviously, this defeated the requirement to determine if a retiree had the sustained means to live in Thailand. The "three months before" seasoning requirement has -- for obvious reasons -- come up short. And that is why we are where we are today.

 

"....high ranking immigration officers who can approve an extension without the funds in the bank or seasoning."

You think this is above board? That these IO's aren't getting their palms greased? That this is not blatant corruption?  Yes, sometimes corruption eases matters for the benefit of all involved -- and this may be just such an example. But to say this is all "above board" because the IO has discretionary authority is, well, interesting....

 

Nevertheless, this may all be looked at with a wink and a nod -- all the way to the top -- because: It eases the hurdles being experienced by some retirees, otherwise acceptable to Thailand; and it adds to an IO's paycheck, thus making him happier, and thus rewarding legal extension applicants with smiles and efficiency. Win win. So, yeah -- corruption, like greed, is good.

 

[KiChakayan]

21 hours ago, TeaMonkey said:

Will I be able to do normal extensions again with my own money?

Interesting OP, how "normal" becomes a synonym of "legal"... But T.I.T.

[IvorBiggun2]

14 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

They work with the IO so you know underpaid IO staff are getting a better salary because of you.

You have a link that they are 'underpaid'? Nah I didn't think so.

[connda]

2 hours ago, gamini said:

This is to stop the agents putting up money for you. I dont think the agents are going to be happy keeping all the extra money in your bank account.

What makes you think that agents working with compliant and complicit IOs have to show any money in a bank at all, no less keep the funds available.  If you've been reading previous threads, none of those using agents are being required to show up at immigration with a bank book and bank letter to prove 800K in their account at their first 90 day report.  No - instead that extra suspicion-fuelled scrutiny is reserved for honest expat retirees who are playing by the rules and doing everything right and within the letter of the law. 

Talk about an upside-down world were honest people are penalized and bent people get a free-ride.  A corrupt world.

"Corruption, embezzlement, fraud, these are all characteristics which exist everywhere. It is regrettably the way human nature functions, whether we like it or not. What successful economies do is keep it to a minimum. No one has ever eliminated any of that stuff."
--Alan Greenspan

 

There it is in a nutshell.  It's human nature; it never ends.  And it will never end here as it's built into the fabric of this so-called "moral" Buddhist society.  Moral? 

It's disgusting.  

 

[IvorBiggun2]

15 minutes ago, sameasb4 said:

Its never being illegal to use an agent to do a visa it issuance is at the discretion of the IO always.

And the link is...……..

[JimGant]

Quote

and one of those rules is "a high level IO can approve an extension without correct fund/seasoning.

Source?

[owenm]

Someone I know living in Nonthaburi used a Bangkok Visa agent last year for An Extension of Stay application and was assured that the fee would include 90 day reports and he wouldn't need to front up at his local IO.. 

 

As it turns out, the visa extension was done through Nan and he was then advised that they couldn't do his 90 day reports.. Big problems and questions when he does his 90 day reports at Nonthaburi.. 

 

Some agents may be providing a good service as promised, while others are only in it for the money and false promises.. 

 

If you are using an agent and living in a different province, does that usually create further problems?? 

Or is this case isolated?? 

[bigginhill]

10 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

 

 

Or 800k in a bank for a year.

You could ask yourself, won't immigration notice the following year, yes they probably will but they are all in on it anyway so no big deal

 

I doubt they would notice, they would be looking for the 3 months after the sxtension date and the following 6months and then the last  3 months. All of which you take in. If all tallies up I think they would just approve. I doubt they would look to see what was provided the year before. But this is just my guess. 

[lamyai3]

3 minutes ago, owenm said:

If you are using an agent and living in a different province, does that usually create further problems?? 

Or is this case isolated??

There's been a few recent reports about this happening recently - here's another.