Denied non-b visa extension, immigration officer recommends I overstay?

[jojolion]

Hey all, I was just given a big L by Thai immigration today. I came over to Thailand on a non-b visa, and had no problems getting the necessary documents. I was a bit concerned my school waited until the final weekday before my visa expired to take me to immigration but I had received my work permit without any trouble and I didn't think I was missing anything. Turns out the immigration officer wants me to get an affidavit for my degree at the US Embassy, and they refuse to extend my visa until I do so. I taught previously in Thailand for a period of 4 years and I never had any problems about my degree. I had a sealed envelope of my university transcript notarized and stamped by my university just in case, but the immigration officer tossed it aside saying she wants a stamp by the US embassy on my certificate. Only problem is the US embassy doesn't have any available appointments until around August 9 while my visa expires in a few days. The immigration officer said they'd give me some time to fix it, but they didn't put anything on my passport that says they've given me a few extra days, am I being baited into illegally overstaying?

[BritTim]

The immigration official wants a present to make this issue go away. This is most easily arranged if there is a local agent to act as a go between.

[BestB]

I had a similar situation not too long ago extending non b but not teacher.

 

immigration captain gave me signed letter that extension was under consideration.

 

week later I still could not please them so decided just to go get new non b. 

 

Was 9 day overstay . Showed them the letter in the airport and they were fine with it but still made me pay 9 days overstay. 

 

So aak them for some sort of letter or something confirming non b is being worked on.

[jackdd]

1 minute ago, BestB said:

Was 9 day overstay . Showed them the letter in the airport and they were fine with it but still made me pay 9 days overstay. 

They were fine with it but you had to pay for overstay? Haha

Sounds like they were not fine.

 

2 minutes ago, BestB said:

So aak them for some sort of letter or something confirming non b is being worked on. 

So he gets a record for overstay in his history and has to pay a fine like you?

 

@OP:

Either insist that the IO gives you the official "under consideration" stamp in your passport, like they use for other extension applications, or leave the country before your permit to stay expires.

[Maestro]

47 minutes ago, jojolion said:

...I had a sealed envelope of my university transcript notarized and stamped by my university just in case, but the immigration officer tossed it aside saying she wants a stamp by the US embassy on my certificate...

 

Are you sure you can get a US embassy stamp on your notarized university transcript just like that? I have a feeling it is a bit more more complicated than that.

[arithai12]

1 hour ago, jojolion said:

the US embassy doesn't have any available appointments until around August 9

no comment.

[ChouDoufu]

i'm pretty sure the us embassy does not certify degrees or transcripts.  a check of their website will show you what they will or will not notarize.  they do affidavits that may possibly be accepted:

 

https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/notaries-public/certification-true-copies-documents/

 

certifying the diploma means getting it stamped by the school, then notarized in the state where the uni is located, then getting that certified by the state department (?), and then having that authenticated by the thai embassy.

Edited July 26, 2019 by ChouDoufu

[BestB]

2 hours ago, jackdd said:

They were fine with it but you had to pay for overstay? Haha

Sounds like they were not fine.

 

So he gets a record for overstay in his history and has to pay a fine like you?

 

@OP:

Either insist that the IO gives you the official "under consideration" stamp in your passport, like they use for other extension applications, or leave the country before your permit to stay expires.

There is no stamp under consideration . They give 30 days extension initially and then a full year . But without docs they will not do 30 days.

 

best they can do is 7 or 14 days but that automatically cancels non b visa extension.

 

overstay record has a note as to reason why and reason would be due to extension being under consideration .

 

over stay is an overstay so you pay for it. So either do what I did or get out to get a new non b.

 

OP might be able to get docs in order faster than me and possibly ( do not know) will not have an overstay recorded . In my case I just did not want to stretch it any longer and left the country to get a new visa , no idea what procedure would have been if I did not and did provide all the docs they wanted.

[Matzzon]

7 hours ago, jackdd said:

They were fine with it but you had to pay for overstay? Haha

Sounds like they were not fine.

Oh yes! Everything was just a big fine.

[NanLaew]

5 hours ago, ChouDoufu said:

i'm pretty sure the us embassy does not certify degrees or transcripts.  a check of their website will show you what they will or will not notarize.  they do affidavits that may possibly be accepted:

 

https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/notaries-public/certification-true-copies-documents/

 

certifying the diploma means getting it stamped by the school, then notarized in the state where the uni is located, then getting that certified by the state department (?), and then having that authenticated by the thai embassy.

...and certfied by the MFA.

 

And some folk are stlll keen on working here?

[jackdd]

5 hours ago, BestB said:

There is no stamp under consideration

Really?

[ubonjoe]

6 hours ago, ChouDoufu said:

i'm pretty sure the us embassy does not certify degrees or transcripts.  a check of their website will show you what they will or will not notarize.  they do affidavits that may possibly be accepted:

He can do a affidavit to self certify his degree by statin it is true and correct.  Most Thai authorities will accept the self certificatti since they are really only wanting a embassy stamp on something.

 

8 hours ago, jojolion said:

Only problem is the US embassy doesn't have any available appointments until around August 9 while my visa expires in a few days.

Just checked and the first appointment available is the 13th for notarial services.

I suggest you contact them about getting a appointment for next week. They will normally normally give you one if you explain you need something urgently.

I is not unusual for immigration to suggest a few days of overstay when it is matter of getting a missing document to complete the extension. At 500 baht a day it can sometimes be better to pay a few days of overstay than going out for another visa.

 

[BestB]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

Really?

This is non b extension?

[ubonjoe]

27 minutes ago, BestB said:

This is non b extension?

Wrong

It is clearly a under consideration stamp that is done after a extension application is accepted and is awaiting approval.

A extension stamp looks like this.

[BestB]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Wrong

It is clearly a under consideration stamp that is done after a extension application is accepted and is awaiting approval.

A extension stamp looks like this.

That was precisely my point . That there is no “under consideration stamp” when documents are not in order . You get the initial 30 days before getting the full year but to get initial 30 days all docs must be in order. 

[ubonjoe]

39 minutes ago, BestB said:

That was precisely my point . That there is no “under consideration stamp” when documents are not in order . You get the initial 30 days before getting the full year but to get initial 30 days all docs must be in order. 

That is not alway true. Since many extensions based upon working are now being put under consideration they can accept the application and allow you to bring any additional documents needed within a few days before the application is sent for approval.

[BestB]

58 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That is not alway true. Since many extensions based upon working are now being put under consideration they can accept the application and allow you to bring any additional documents needed within a few days before the application is sent for approval.

Was not the case with me about 9 months ago at Chonburi immigration. Non B extension 

[blackcab]

1 hour ago, BestB said:

That was precisely my point . That there is no “under consideration stamp” when documents are not in order . You get the initial 30 days before getting the full year but to get initial 30 days all docs must be in order. 

 

That's not been my experience when applying at Chiang Wattana for an extension of stay based on working for a Thai company.

 

I had already been working for the company for over a year, and I was applying for my second extension of stay. For whatever reason the application was accepted and was under consideration. When I went back to collect the extension stamp I was informed that I now needed to supply additional documents from the Department of Revenue relating to the company's tax payments.

 

My under consideration period was extended for about 3 weeks, as you can see from the attached stamp.

 

The required documents were obtained from the Department of Revenue and submitted to Immigration. My extension was granted.

 

I think immigration did this because it was them asking for additional documents after they had initially accepted my application and granted under consideration status.

 

The point being that an under consideration period can be extended if Immigration so choose.

 

[blackcab]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Since many extensions based upon working are now being put under consideration they can accept the application and allow you to bring any additional documents needed within a few days before the application is sent for approval.

 

I guess this is dependant on the particular office/officer, but at Chiang Wattana the system is that you take all your documents to submit. They are checked and if you need to substantially improve the application you are advised what else to prepare. You then take your documents and leave.

 

If your application is almost complete and you are missing one or two documents/photos, etc. then a note of the missing documents is made on the top of your application, along with the window number of the officer checking. You are advised what else to prepare, you take your documents and leave.

 

When you obtain the necessary documents you have to go back and re-submit. If everything is in order then you get the under consideration stamp.

 

The year above that I obtained the three week additional extension, it took the company staff eight visits to get the under consideration stamp.

[BestB]

42 minutes ago, blackcab said:

 

I guess this is dependant on the particular office/officer, but at Chiang Wattana the system is that you take all your documents to submit. They are checked and if you need to substantially improve the application you are advised what else to prepare. You then take your documents and leave.

 

If your application is almost complete and you are missing one or two documents/photos, etc. then a note of the missing documents is made on the top of your application, along with the window number of the officer checking. You are advised what else to prepare, you take your documents and leave.

 

When you obtain the necessary documents you have to go back and re-submit. If everything is in order then you get the under consideration stamp.

 

The year above that I obtained the three week additional extension, it took the company staff eight visits to get the under consideration stamp.

As you said must depend on the immigration office. I was only missing one paper and best they would do is a letter but that’s Chonburi.

 

chonburi has never given the 30 day stamps without full docs and full approval, they then send it off to Bangkok .

 

perhaps if OP is in Bkk, then he should try to get the stamp 

[blackcab]

10 minutes ago, BestB said:

As you said must depend on the immigration office. I was only missing one paper and best they would do is a letter but that’s Chonburi.

 

chonburi has never given the 30 day stamps without full docs and full approval, they then send it off to Bangkok .

 

perhaps if OP is in Bkk, then he should try to get the stamp 

 

I should clarify my post number 19. At Chiang Wattana, if your documents are not accepted, you do not get an under consideration stamp.

 

Apologies for post 19 being ambiguous.

[Maestro]

Could point 4 or 5 of the preamble in Police Order 327/2557 regarding extensions of stay come into play here?

 

Quote

 

4. In case where an applying alien does not meet the full qualification stipulated by the criteria herein, the alien must be
notified of the non-permission order and must depart from the Kingdom within seven days from the date on which the permitted
period has lapsed.

5. In the case where an alien applicant does not meet the full qualifications stipulated by the criteria herein or in other cases not
specified in this Order but a competent officer equivalent to or higher than inspector is of the opinion that the alien has legitimate
reason for staying in the Kingdom of Thailand, the application shall be forwarded to the Commander of the Royal Thai Police or an
authorized competent officer for further consideration of the alien's application.

 

 

[thesetat2013]

You can't get that notarized at the US Embassy in Thailand. The only way to get degree notarized by the gov now is to send it back to the USA and have someone do it for you. 

The US Embassy website does state they will not notarize these types of documents here

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, thesetat2013 said:

You can't get that notarized at the US Embassy in Thailand. The only way to get degree notarized by the gov now is to send it back to the USA and have someone do it for you. 

Somewhat correct. It is not really a matter of it being notarized. It has to be legalized by an authority in the state where it it was issued and then the state department.

But as I wrote earlier a affidavit can be done as a self certification of it that will be accepted by most Thai government offices.

 

[OffshoreMig]

Ask the embassy/consulate to apostile your degree.

 

[jojolion]

Interestingly, I recall a conversation a few months ago with the Thai embassy in America and asking if I needed to notarize my degree, they replied no, that I shouldn't do it, and sure enough I got my non-b visa without any problems. The headaches only began after dealing with the immigration office in Thailand.

It seems I won't get anymore answers from the embassy or immigration until Tuesday, at which point I will be 2 days overstayed already.

 

The immigration officer in Chonburi did not stamp that my extension was denied on my passport or give me 7 days to leave. The officer also did not write any letter indicating that my application is still pending, I only have their word, so if I'm unlucky, I could easily be deported. To get what they demand, I will have to overstay 11 days before I can go to the embassy. I will be fined at least 5500 baht for overstaying, and there is no guarantee they won't come up with some other demands.

 

It may be cheaper just to do a visa run rather than taking on the risk of overstaying so many days.

[BestB]

3 minutes ago, jojolion said:

Interestingly, I recall a conversation a few months ago with the Thai embassy in America and asking if I needed to notarize my degree, they replied no, that I shouldn't do it, and sure enough I got my non-b visa without any problems. The headaches only began after dealing with the immigration office in Thailand.

It seems I won't get anymore answers from the embassy or immigration until Tuesday, at which point I will be 2 days overstayed already.

 

The immigration officer in Chonburi did not stamp that my extension was denied on my passport or give me 7 days to leave. The officer also did not write any letter indicating that my application is still pending, I only have their word, so if I'm unlucky, I could easily be deported. To get what they demand, I will have to overstay 11 days before I can go to the embassy. I will be fined at least 5500 baht for overstaying, and there is no guarantee they won't come up with some other demands.

 

It may be cheaper just to do a visa run rather than taking on the risk of overstaying so many days.

 

I would suggest yes to do visa run to Penang, would cost about as much as your overstay but at least no headache and you can plan in advance for next extension.

 

Exactly how i was and what i did

 

But keep in mind embassy will also be closed till Tuesday and when reopens most likely would be packed, so head over early morning