Expat group launches online petition calling for TM.30 to be scrapped

[ThaiLawOnline]

On 7/29/2019 at 3:58 AM, Thechook said:

The military won't be impressed with this.  Why poke the bear?  You are only going to make them lose face and make things a lot harder.  Just do as you're told and smile.

 

It appears not. Clause 37 of immigration was changed. I hope you learned a lesson. People can change things in Thailand.

[IvorBiggun2]

1 hour ago, Victornoir said:

Tm 28 has therefore been very watered down and will probably be deleted in its most inquisitive form.

I doubt it will 'be deleted in it's most inquisitive form'. They'll just leave in the law books to use again, as to when it suits them. A bit like riding on the back of a pick-up law. A couple of years ago they brought in the law saying all passengers needed to travel inside the vehicle. They realised how difficult that would make life in Thailand that they decided to turn a blind eye to it. But it still remains law as to when it suits the powers on high.

 

 

1 hour ago, Victornoir said:

 

Victory then, but not necessarily yours and I find you a little rude to seek praise and take credit for it.

I think you a little rude. If it wasn't for the likes of Seb you'd still be paying the fine for failing to report. I don't think Seb is seeking 'praise'. He's just having a dig at all the doom forecasters that thought him wrong to take on the Thai government in the name of farangs. Good on ya Seb. Nice to find a farang with balls that's prepared to stand up against Thailand's bureaucratic <deleted>.

[lamyai3]

2 hours ago, Isaanlawyers said:

It appears not. Clause 37 of immigration was changed. I hope you learned a lesson. People can change things in Thailand.

The whole problem was with the TM30 (under Section 38) - which hasn't been changed at all. This is what the high profile complaints in the media were all about. 

 

Bottom line, the TM30 remains untouched, and foreigners still need to report if more than 24 hours away from their residence.

[Don Mega]

3 minutes ago, Victornoir said:

Let's be precise Lamyai.

Tm30 is the obligation for hoteliers and guest-houses to report your passage. The constraint is therefore for them.

Tm28 is the obligation for all foreigners to report their return after each trip. The constraint was therefore for us.

The removal of tm 28 is therefore the end of this formality for us, expatriates, corporate employees or tourists.

So why does immigration want a copy of my TM.30 instead of a TM.28 ?

[DannyCarlton]

3 hours ago, Isaanlawyers said:

 

It appears not. Clause 37 of immigration was changed. I hope you learned a lesson. People can change things in Thailand.

But not you. There's zero evidence that your petition had any influence whatsoever on the changes to the TM28 (not TM30) rules.

 

Thanks for your efforts but, sadly, no cigar.

[lamyai3]

6 minutes ago, Victornoir said:

Let's be precise Lamyai.

Tm30 is the obligation for hoteliers and guest-houses to report your passage. The constraint is therefore for them.

Tm28 is the obligation for all foreigners to report their return after each trip. The constraint was therefore for us.

The removal of tm 28 is therefore the end of this formality for us, expatriates, corporate employees or tourists.

The entire problem last year was the enforcement of the TM30 laws, where foreigners were being fined by the failure to provide a TM30 report. TM28 was never the issue! 

 

Don't be fooled by the news article. TM28 refers to a change in permanent address, TM30 is a change in residence, and 24 hour reporting requirements pertaining to this are unchanged. 

[Don Mega]

12 minutes ago, Victornoir said:

It was the problem.

To complete the tm28 form you had to present a copy of the tm30.

Its removal completely frees us from all this paperwork.

But Ive never changed my permanent address so why would I need to do a TM.28 ?

 

TM.30 on the other hand ive done as I have been away from my permanent address for more than 24hr.

[DannyCarlton]

15 minutes ago, Victornoir said:

Its removal completely frees us from all this paperwork.

I was already free. Not completed a TM28/TM 30 since I moved house several years ago.

[ThaiLawOnline]

And what happened today?

 

<<<<Link to Bangkok Post has been removed:  

 

26) The Bangkok Post and Phuketwan do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on Thaivisa.com. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to Bangkok Post or Phuketwan publications will be deleted from the forum.

 

These restrictions are put in place by the above publications, not Thaivisa.com
In rare cases, forum Administrators or the news team may use these sources under special permission.>>>>

 

 

 

Starting Tuesday. TM30 largely eased.

 

To all the doubters and <deleted> that thought we could do nothing: ????

 

These people should actually thank me and others to have provoked these changes. And we had almost 10,000 signatures when we closed the site.

 

My next target is double pricing. But not under this government and not with that constitution.

 

 

 

 

 

[JCP108]

I get "access forbidden" when I try to go to the petition.

[metisdead]

Some inflammatory posts and replies have been removed. 

[SkyFax]

Just to note:

 

For months, foreigners working and residing in Thailand have been venting about dramatically increased immigration reporting requirements under a regulation known as TM30.

 

Last week , (AUG 2019)  the Joint Foreign Chambers of Commerce of Thailand issued a statement on the need for a reconsideration of the order and sent a letter of “concerns and recommendations” to Interior Minister of Thailand.

 

The communities stressed that “Ease of doing business is a hallmark of any nation`s attractiveness for trade, investment and tourism and TM30 is undoing those good achievements. Our neighbors do not have such kind of these continuous tracking requirements” This kind of requirements on foreign national living in Thailand has caused many businessmen to rethink their investment in Thailand.

 

https://ratchadalawfirm.com/en/regulation-known-tm30/

[ThaiLawOnline]

17 hours ago, JCP108 said:

I get "access forbidden" when I try to go to the petition.

website was closed a month ago.

[ThaiLawOnline]

13 hours ago, SkyFax said:

Just to note:

 

For months, foreigners working and residing in Thailand have been venting about dramatically increased immigration reporting requirements under a regulation known as TM30.

 

Last week , (AUG 2019)  the Joint Foreign Chambers of Commerce of Thailand issued a statement on the need for a reconsideration of the order and sent a letter of “concerns and recommendations” to Interior Minister of Thailand.

 

The communities stressed that “Ease of doing business is a hallmark of any nation`s attractiveness for trade, investment and tourism and TM30 is undoing those good achievements. Our neighbors do not have such kind of these continuous tracking requirements” This kind of requirements on foreign national living in Thailand has caused many businessmen to rethink their investment in Thailand.

 

https://ratchadalawfirm.com/en/regulation-known-tm30/

 

Part of this article is copied from September 6th from :

 

https://asia.nikkei.com/Economy/Thailand-s-foreign-businesses-balk-at-stricter-immigration-tracking

 

Written by Dominic Faulder who was at conference of FCC of 15th August 2019 available on YouTube.

We were the first. Chambers of commerces joined after few weeks because we advertised. Richard Barrow took the story quickly and Bangkok Post made editorials + caricatures.
 

Website was made in July 2019. Translated in Thai a first time around 27. Several people helped for the text.

 

Bangkok Post had something on 5th August.

 

chanbers of commerce reported in Bangkok Post 31 August. However, they join quickly and were part of the FCC conference.

 

The conference with FCC in Bangkok that I was invited for was 15 August. In the morning, immigration met the chamber of commerce of Australia. I think the day before was India.

 

All August and September was into confusion.

 

When the BBC took the story on 29 August, it went even further.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-49470726

 

The guy appointed to work on it said it would be done in 2 months but it took 10.

 

in September, he said he would scrap arrival cards, tm6. It is still used and made an application that had problems.

 

https://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/business/2019/09/18/govt-to-scrap-arrival-cards-for-foreigners-introduce-tm30-app/

 

if you need more info.... ???? that’s me and Richard Barrow on 15th of August. He can confirm what I say.

[SkyFax]

On 6/26/2020 at 10:38 PM, Isaanlawyers said:

These people should actually thank me and others to have provoked these changes. And we had almost 10,000 signatures when we closed the site.

So 'others' included "The Joint Foreign Chambers of Commerce of Thailand ... who sent a letter of “concerns and recommendations” to Interior Minister of Thailand Anupong Paochinda." 6SEP2019

 

https://asia.nikkei.com/Economy/Thailand-s-foreign-businesses-balk-at-stricter-immigration-tracking

[ThaiLawOnline]

18 hours ago, SkyFax said:

So 'others' included "The Joint Foreign Chambers of Commerce of Thailand ... who sent a letter of “concerns and recommendations” to Interior Minister of Thailand Anupong Paochinda." 6SEP2019

 

https://asia.nikkei.com/Economy/Thailand-s-foreign-businesses-balk-at-stricter-immigration-tracking

Yes, 3-4 months after I got the idea, made a website with a Romania guy, get some funds to advertise it on Facebook, which was seen in a Facebook group that i manage with 5,000 people, later Richard Barrow published it, the Bangkok Post published it, the FCC joined, there was about 8,000 people and hundreds of comments before any chamber of commerce joined. We developed the non-sense of this practice that wasn’t used for years except in Phuket, suddenly used in Bangkok, made long queue, and argued in English and Thai, got the press with us and many bloggers.

 

Kobsak, I wrote to him personally but he never replied. The text was modified 4-5 times by several long timers, lawyers, native English speakers, nobody was satisfied, there was always something that was missing, should be added, but we let it like I thought it should be and the rest is history.

 

chambers of commerces that changed the law? They helped us, didn’t have the idea, support our work like thousands of people. And few months later...

 

But maybe you know the story more than me. I have emails and messages from people who wanted to help in June I think, before everything started. It easily available on Thaivisa and other places.

 

Read also all the doubters, all the people saying who do you think I was taking myself for, that it would never happen, that this was not my country, that a petition is a way to be kick out of Thailand, etc.

See Ben Hart on YouTube talking about the petition in English, of Olivier Polomé against in French, it was all over the news, so the chambers of commerces joined, cause it’s pretty rare that I see that doing activist work for human rights and rights of foreigners.

 

When will the chambers of commerces complain about double pricing and put that in the news?

When will people stand for equality of gay marriage in Thailand? When discrimination is already protected in the last constitution? Embassies and chambers of commerce do not like to get involved in internal matters, in the law of a country, democratic or not. That is a fact. But you need activist to plant a seed, modify things, change the laws so we don’t have slavery anymore, women can votes, workers have rights, death penalty has stopped in western countries except USA and others. People can have different opinions.... just like morality is flexible and change, from a place to another, from a time to another.

 

Chambers of commerces normally helps links between businessman and they are not Amnesty ?International, neither “médecins sans frontières” or the Red Cross. And I been living in Thailand 16 years, worked on hundreds of cases in court, knew it could be seen inflammatory, badly interpreted, but I fight for what I believe is right for people and for Thailand. Thailand is a bureaucracy, I live here and I want to make it better. Not for foreigners. I work with Thai employees, I support many Thai children and I do not frequent Pattaya or Patong often.

 

if you want to read my story, go to www.dear-mr-s.com and you will understand why I try to help people and do not really care about money. This was volunteer work. All the money raised was spent. (A website is cheap but advertising is expensive) and I spend 20-30 hours on the project before it became a website. And many hours after answering The Thaiger, BBC, Bangkok Post and others. I also declined 90% of interviews and the project was started anonymously but at one point, too many people knew and I didn’t care to identify myself. There was nothing bad into this project. And the government realized it. Thanks to them and all others who helped. They know who they are. The owner of Thaivisa even helped by a donation. ????

[SkyFax]

4 hours ago, Isaanlawyers said:

 

Kobsak, I wrote to him personally but he never replied.

Maybe when the jfcct wrote to Interior Minister of Thailand Anupong, he DID reply.

jfcct.org

[ThaiLawOnline]

18 hours ago, SkyFax said:

Maybe when the jfcct wrote to Interior Minister of Thailand Anupong, he DID reply.

jfcct.org

I like your “Maybe”, and also the fact that you don’t say it was about probably 3 months after we started the process. It’s not the jFcct that got the first 8,000 signatures and posts in the newspapers in early August. And it is common sense that make it worked. 1 week after the FCC conference, the top immigration said it was old law and should be changed. Wow. You told him that?
 

Write me an email and inform me of what you did to make a positive change in this country. You will find my email easily.

[SkyFax]

All I did at #767 this topic was to post an article with no editorial comment from me.

[ThaiLawOnline]

21 hours ago, SkyFax said:

All I did at #767 this topic was to post an article with no editorial comment from me.

An article from a law firm, written after August.

 

all I did is telling you that somebody else started to movement, got thousands of signature, move the media’s and the public opinion. 
 

https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/expats/expat-group-petitions-thai-immigration-to-abolish-tm30-form
 

like this article of 29 July, before the one you posted, clearly proves. Enjoy your meeting with cocktails at the chambers of commerces.

[Puccini]

What prize goes to the person or organisation that wins this bickering contest about who started to write to Thai government entities with the suggestion to abolish the TM.30 requirement?

 

Personally, I think this bickering demeans the many people who made these efforts and the hard work they put into it and I suggest that it be stopped.

[metisdead]

Some bickering troll posts and replies have been removed:

 

 25) No public discussion is allowed with regard to other forum members, as well as to advertisements or sponsors, or methods of blocking advertisements.

 

 

[Artisi]

54 minutes ago, Puccini said:

What prize goes to the person or organisation that wins this bickering contest about who started to write to Thai government entities with the suggestion to abolish the TM.30 requirement?

 

Personally, I think this bickering demeans the many people who made these efforts and the hard work they put into it and I suggest that it be stopped.

Actually the whole thread is now dead and useless as it seems the perceived problem has been resolved. 

[Yankeesvsredsox]

May I remind everyone! Its not our country! You and I are guest here!

Obey the rules . 

This country leaders have a very strong opinion 

"for lack of the proper words" pertaining to group thought !

Buyer beware

[ThaiLawOnline]

Stupid reply. I have permanent residency, live and work here for more than 15 years. Have family.

 

Go back to yours, mine is Thailand.

[assayer]

And when I went to the site this is what awaited me:

 

403

Forbidden

Access to this resource on the server is denied!