'Many killed' in shooting at Walmart in El Paso; suspect in custody

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, Mel52 said:

Damn it dude that’s my whole point I don’t know and neither does anyone else on this chat room! Including you and me. It’s just a real tragedy and this stuff needs to stop somehow right now the most common sense answer looks like more security especially in crowded places right now in the short term. Long term is going to get very political and very complicated! I’m just being realistic in my thinking I’m not on any side politically I’m really not. Everyone always wants to use these tragedies to further an agenda or make a point and I just think it’s all sick I really honestly do and I’m just as sick of it happening as anyone else.

More security!?!

Dayton was a great example of having just about the best possible security possible. 
The police responded in mere seconds.

Yet still very many dead and injured.

No, "more security" "gaming" "mental health" are mere diversions from getting to the real ROOTS of the problem. 

Also back to politics.

Arming teachers after Parkland. That was proposed. That's very controversial. You can't escape politics in any discussion of any kind regarding possible solutions to the gun violence problem in the U.S. It's necessary. 

[Mel52]

And if the police were there in seconds how did this idiot have 20 minutes to shoot over 40 people? Never mind don’t answer that.

 

 

[Mel52]

Obviously we shouldn’t arm teachers that’s stupid they need police guarding schools and other crowded public places more security. That’s what I meant by more security in the short term because that’s all we can do at the moment. The real tough question is what do we do in the long term? That’s where it gets political and very complicated because of the gun control stuff.

 

 

 

[Mel52]

I know the police can’t be everywhere but we might need to hire more cops good ones though

 

 

[mogandave]

Damn it dude that’s my whole point I don’t know and neither does anyone else on this chat room! Including you and me. It’s just a real tragedy and this stuff needs to stop somehow right now the most common sense answer looks like more security especially in crowded places right now in the short term. Long term is going to get very political and very complicated! I’m just being realistic in my thinking I’m not on any side politically I’m really not. Everyone always wants to use these tragedies to further an agenda or make a point and I just think it’s all sick I really honestly do and I’m just as sick of it happening as anyone else.

You don’t know, because there is probably nothing that can be done legislatively that will treat the root problem.

You can gather up all the guns, and that will likely reduce gun deaths (at least the suicides) but it does not really address the problem.

Semi-automatics have been around for well over 100 years. The percentage of homes with guns has not really gone up, in the last 50 years, and the overall murder rate has gone down in the last 40 years, so while it’s easy to focus on guns, it’s probably not going to help much. Of course if it gets one leftist elected, all the rhetoric and grandstanding will have been worthwhile.

[Chomper Higgot]

26 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

Yeah, but but but Trump right?

Mass shootings tripled during the Obama Administration, the Dayton shooter is a lefty, but it all Trumps fault.

We get it...

 

What is the relevance of the Dayton shooting in this thread, other than an attempt by you to go off topic?

[watcharacters]

6 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I'm guessing the shooter wouldn't have lasted long in this store.

 

 

From the looks of it those women wouldn't make me feel any safer at all.

 

[candide]

31 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

Yeah, but but but Trump right?

Mass shootings tripled during the Obama Administration, the Dayton shooter is a lefty, but it all Trumps fault.

We get it...

 

There is just a small detail: the standards applied to define mass shootings in the study you don't cite have not been consistent over the period studied. So it's fake news again.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mass-shootings-obama/

 

[Mel52]

You don’t know, because there is probably nothing that can be done legislatively that will treat the root problem.

You can gather up all the guns, and that will likely reduce gun deaths (at least the suicides) but it does not really address the problem.

Semi-automatics have been around for well over 100 years. The percentage of homes with guns has not really gone up, in the last 50 years, and the overall murder rate has gone down in the last 40 years, so while it’s easy to focus on guns, it’s probably not going to help much. Of course if it gets one leftist elected, all the rhetoric and grandstanding will have been worthwhile.

I know it’s extremely complicated so in the short term we have no choice but to beef up security heavily as much as we can without creating a police state that will make it worse.

[mogandave]

What is the relevance of the Dayton shooting in this thread, other than an attempt by you to go off topic?

I was referring to Beto’s divisive rhetoric where he blamed Trump and Fox News for this shooting, but didn’t mention that the number of mass shootings tripled under the Obama Administration, nor did he mention the Dayton shootings where the perpetrator was a leftist.

Cherry-picking one event while ignoring the real problem.

I think he is a hypocrite, and he is just exploiting this horrendous event to further his political career.

Didn’t hear him mention any solutions, but in all fairness, I didn’t hear the whole thing.

[Mel52]

 
 
From the looks of it those women wouldn't make me feel any safer at all.
 

Actually I spent most of my career living in a southern state and you’re right they probably wouldn’t lol.

[Jingthing]

25 minutes ago, Mel52 said:

And if the police were there in seconds how did this idiot have 20 minutes to shoot over 40 people? Never mind don’t answer that.

 

 

I was referring to Dayton.

[Mel52]

But I’ve never lived in Texas the southern red necks in the south east United States are worse and without as much education. I’ve driven through Texas before and I know a lot of people from Texas. I’ve spent enough time in Texas to understand the culture.

 

 

[Jingthing]

19 minutes ago, Mel52 said:

Obviously we shouldn’t arm teachers that’s stupid they need police guarding schools and other crowded public places more security. That’s what I meant by more security in the short term because that’s all we can do at the moment. The real tough question is what do we do in the long term? That’s where it gets political and very complicated because of the gun control stuff.

 

 

 

It's ALL political. Short and long term. BTW -- the current occupant of the white house has been in favor of arming teachers. Very controversial. Very political. Impossible to avoid that factor. 

[Mel52]

I grew up in Arizona so I get the gun culture I at least understand it.

 

 

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

Putting measures in place to save the lives of innocents and children is a far call from a wall or no wall argument.

And anyway the "Wall" argument is an off-topic distraction as......

 

"Most undocumented immigrants didn't enter this country through Tijuana, where news cameras have captured images of thousands of immigrants seeking refuge during recent months.

 

When it comes to people in the country without proper documentation, the majority of them didn't cross the Mexican border at all. Most of them came to the United States legally — but then don't leave".

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Mel52 said:

I grew up in Arizona so I get the gun culture I at least understand it.

 

 

My aunt married a Mafioso (true story, diamond pinky ring, pasta fazool, the whole nine yards) so I get it too. That and five dollahs will get you a latte at Starbucks. 

[Mel52]

I also spent 21 years in the military and I’ve been to combat 5 times so I also understand how bad violence is I know how it effects people and how it permanently changes people.

 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Mel52 said:

I also spent 21 years in the military and I’ve been to combat 5 times so I also understand how bad violence is I know how it effects people and how it permanently changes people.

 

Thank you for your service.

About as empty as thoughts and prayers for the shooting victims, yeh?

[Mel52]

But unfortunately this is the reason why we can’t solve gun violence is because we can’t seem to come together as a society and this discussion is a very good example of that. This is why we have violence and why we always will have violence because different people just can’t seem to get along no matter what happens anymore.

 

 

[Jingthing]

44 minutes ago, Mel52 said:

No I want to hear people’s voices just not stupidity is all. It’s stupidity that leads to these things happening in the first place.

So if I get this guy straight, voices in favor of addressing the gun violence crisis in the U.S. with actual policy changes are stupid. Wow. 

[xylophone]

58 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

What measures would you put in place?

 

Greater and more stringent background checks (already buried by the Repubs and also veto threatened by Trump); no-one with any criminal record can own a gun; restrictions on type of guns under a certain age; hunting licence needed for some guns.............

 

BUT as long as the Constitution allows that all Americans have the right to bear arms, then not much will change. IMO a stupid "law" that has it's origins way back when, when times were different.

[meand]

There are only two ways to put a stop to stuff like this as far as I am concerned. 

 

1) is the post 9-11 approach. Invade everyone's privacy so much that potential killers can never get past square one. 

 

2) is to take them alive when possible and <deleted> them up the likes of which nobody can even speak about. We could train people who love this type of shit and send seal type units in when there are shooting reports. There are guys that live for shit like this, let their dreams come true. 

 

We live in a democracy. I am betting if there is a vote #2 is winning by a landslide. 

 

Again, we live in a democracy. I guarantee you if you ask people "would you rather 50-100 innocent people get killed in mass shooting this year, or would you rather subject mass shooters to cruel and unusual punishment", we all know what is winning. 

[Mel52]

There are only two ways to put a stop to stuff like this as far as I am concerned. 
 
1) is the post 9-11 approach. Invade everyone's privacy so much that potential killers can never get past square one. 
 
2) is to take them alive an them up the likes of which nobody can even speak about.
 
We live in a democracy. I am betting if there is a vote #2 is winning by a landslide. 

Yeah option 2 is definitely one thing we can do and probably should do but physical security of crowded places is going to have to happen more excessively in the short term until we can someday all live in peace and sing together or something.

[rabas]

20 minutes ago, candide said:

There is just a small detail: the standards applied to define mass shootings in the study you don't cite have not been consistent over the period studied. So it's fake news again.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mass-shootings-obama/

 

Unfortunately, it's snoops using non-standard data, they discard cases with less than eight killed,  wow. Four is generally accepted and US laws states 3 killed. Who checks snoops?

 

Check out Wiki under 'definitions'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shooting

 

Here is the rise in the number mass shooting deaths under Obama, (from Stanford University)

 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

23 minutes ago, rabas said:

 

Unfortunately, it's snoops using non-standard data, they discard cases with less than eight killed,  wow. Four is generally accepted and US laws states 3 killed. Who checks snoops?

 

Check out Wiki under 'definitions'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shooting

 

Here is the rise in the number mass shooting deaths under Obama, (from Stanford University)

 

 

 

Please provide a link to the source of the graphic you have presented.

[mogandave]

And anyway the "Wall" argument is an off-topic distraction as......
 
"Most undocumented immigrants didn't enter this country through Tijuana, where news cameras have captured images of thousands of immigrants seeking refuge during recent months.
 
When it comes to people in the country without proper documentation, the majority of them didn't cross the Mexican border at all. Most of them came to the United States legally — but then don't leave".

So you blame Trump’s immigration rhetoric for the shooting, but call the wall, which is a big part of his rhetoric off topic.

Typical

[Mel52]

So you blame Trump’s immigration rhetoric for the shooting, but call the wall, which is a big part of his rhetoric off topic.

Typical

This is also why we can’t get anything done to fix the problem because like I said different people just can’t seem to come together and stop arguing about it and put politics aside and seriously figure out what the hell do we do about it? An actual real solution. Right now I only foresee temporary solutions that won’t permanently stop it.

[Mel52]

How about bipartisan solutions we gotta start thinking about it in a bipartisan way or it’s never gonna stop it’s just gonna keep going round in circles as it has been for decades now.

 

[Mel52]

I mean what would really happen if they stopped selling guns right now? What about the guns that are already out there? There’s a huge portion of the population of the United States including from the criminals who will never just peacefully give up their guns. In the long term that would make the violence worse at least for many years to come. So really what do we do about it? I honestly mean that I have no political agenda at all, I don’t care about the gun rights debate or the gun control debate, I’m thinking “no really what do we do”?