Don't believe an immigration officer's words unless it's in writing.

[jojolion]

Hey all, couple of weeks back i made a post about my non-b visa extension being psuedo-denied until I got an affidavit for my degree. I was told by the immigration officer that they would give me some time to fix it, unfortunately the next available appointment at the US embassy wouldn't be open until a week and a half from that day and my visa would expire soon. Again, I was told by immigration that I would have to pay overstay fines, but as long as I got the affidavit and the MFA stamp, they would still extend the visa even if it was expired. I wasn't very sure about taking their word for it and considered doing a visa run or just leaving altogether.

 

Well against my better judgement, I decided to overstay, my school had talked to immigration multiple times since then, and immigration in Pattaya assured them that if I got the affidavit stamped by the US embassy and the MFA, that they would extend my visa.

I got the affidavit easily enough, but it turns out the MFA won't stamp the translated documents, because my visa "expired," they told me immigration would have to extend the visa first before they could stamp the document. So I went back to immigration the next day to explain the situation, the same officer that recommended I overstay, told me that she won't do anything, if there is no stamp then there is no extension, that I have overstayed 2 weeks already and should get out Thailand.

 

So basically, I can't get the MFA stamp until my visa is extended, and my visa won't be extended until I get the MFA stamp.

 

Whether this was done by the officer's incompetence as surely they should have known that the MFA would not stamp my documents, or simply done maliciously to screw me over, I will never know. The officer could have easily denied my visa extension and I would have had 7 days to prepare my things, instead, they sent me on a wild goose chase. Now I will have to pay a large fine at the airport and I don't expect to return to Thailand again.

 

tl:dr read title

[timendres]

With immigration, always "stay inside the lines", or you are risking disappointment or worse.

[Beggar]

"Now I will have to pay a large fine at the airport and I don't expect to return to Thailand again." 

 

Your overstay is not the fault of Thailand. And I bet on it that you will come again. Every year I meet the same guys coming in the main season telling me before they fly back home that they have enough and will never come again. But they come again and again and tell me before leaving... 

 

[jackdd]

If you ask people for advise, are given an advise, but then don't listen and do something stupid... then there is nobody else to blame than you.

I told you in your old thread already, to either get an official "under consideration" stamp, or if they won't give you this, leave the country.

 

You even said it yourself back then, so i assumed you understood it:

On 7/28/2019 at 9:11 PM, jojolion said:

I only have their word, so if I'm unlucky, I could easily be deported. To get what they demand, I will have to overstay 11 days before I can go to the embassy. I will be fined at least 5500 baht for overstaying, and there is no guarantee they won't come up with some other demands.

[KittenKong]

6 minutes ago, Beggar said:

Your overstay is not the fault of Thailand.

Maybe not, but it is the fault of incompetent and unduly complex immigration practices.

 

Any proper system would have a written procedure in place for every eventuality and would stick to the procedure rigidly nationwide. Here it is all done on a whim by individual officers, with no paper trail at all. That is entirely Thailand's fault.

[Beggar]

1 minute ago, KittenKong said:

Maybe not, but it is the fault of incompetent and unduly complex immigration practices.

 

Any proper system would have a written procedure in place for every eventuality and would stick to the procedure rigidly nationwide. Here it is all done on a whim by individual officers, with no paper trail at all. That is entirely Thailand's fault.

What I wanted to say is that this lady at the immigration is not Thailand. Thailand is more. 

[jojolion]

2 minutes ago, jackdd said:

If you ask people for advise, are given an advise, but then don't listen and do something stupid... then there is nobody else to blame than you.

I told you in your old thread already, to either get an official "under consideration" stamp, or if they won't give you this, leave the country.

 

You even said it yourself back then, so i assumed you understood it:

 

Yeah I was going to leave, but the school I worked at convinced me to stay as they said they would talk to immigration and try to get something in writing that I could stay until then. I told them to make sure they ask clearly so I wouldn't be blindsided. It seems they couldn't get anything in writing but they assured me that immigration told them there would be no problems with my overstay. Some good news is, it seems the school will help me with the overstay fine.

[ChouDoufu]

would this work????

 

get your school to send someone other than you to mfa to get that document stamped.  they can say you're out of the country and they need a legalized document to apply for a work permit.

 

you write up an authoritization letter (sorta like a power of attorney), and affix a couple of tax stamps to it (available from the copy dude on the 2nd floor). 

 

they should be able to get the stamp with the letter and your signed passport.

[Myran]

I fail to see how immigration is in the wrong or that they've told you something incorrect. They told you that they would give you an extension if you got the MFA stamp; they didn't guarantee that the MFA would give you that stamp, as that is completely out of their control.

[JohnnyBKK]

You should have checked if it was possible to get that stamp with an expired visa.

[BuckBee]

29 minutes ago, Myran said:

I fail to see how immigration is in the wrong or that they've told you something incorrect. They told you that they would give you an extension if you got the MFA stamp; they didn't guarantee that the MFA would give you that stamp, as that is completely out of their control.

The officer gave bad advise .

The OP was silly listening and overstaying, being on overstay and trying do legalities of paperwork never a good thing as has too many ways turn into a bigger mess and original office you dealing with generally won't be helpful in correcting issues that arise ...

 

[WeekendRaider]

also, don't assume any rules need to make any sense.

and don't ever take the easy route out by allowing an officer to instruct your Thai wife with the details, instead of talking directly to you, and then assume your wife fully understands what is involved, or is any better than you are, at getting a handle of what is needed.... before it is too late or, at the least, leads to a stressful situation.

[Thailand]

As a matter of interest has anybody ever had an immigration officer write down anything that could be used as "evidence" at a later date?

Must be a jobsworth thing so I would doubt it.

[Pilotman]

1 minute ago, Thailand said:

As a matter of interest has anybody ever had an immigration officer write down anything that could be used as "evidence" at a later date?

Must be a jobsworth thing so I would doubt it.

Jomtein Immigration issue new extension applicants with a letter telling them the date to report for a bank book check of their 800K and what is required of them, so to answer your question;  yes. 

[Mavideol]

1 hour ago, jojolion said:

Yeah I was going to leave, but the school I worked at convinced me to stay as they said they would talk to immigration and try to get something in writing that I could stay until then. I told them to make sure they ask clearly so I wouldn't be blindsided. It seems they couldn't get anything in writing but they assured me that immigration told them there would be no problems with my overstay. Some good news is, it seems the school will help me with the overstay fine.

if that's the case and the school was aware of the risks, than ask the school to pay the penalties for the overstay

[Salerno]

Pretty sure that's what the last sentence in the post you quoted says   

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, KittenKong said:

Any proper system would have a written procedure in place for every eventuality and would stick to the procedure rigidly nationwide. Here it is all done on a whim by individual officers, with no paper trail at all. That is entirely Thailand's fault.

But here in a country where nobody takes responsibility for their actions, and chasing money is the primary goal, and integrity is absent, you will get shafted. The OP's tale is a sad one, plans thrown asunder, his time, money and effort wasted, he has to look elsewhere. Thailand spits another out.

[BritTim]

This illustrates, once again, two rules that should always be borne in mind in Thailand:

• Never assume that a Thai official knows anything that does not directly relate to the service they provide themselves. This is true regardless of the confidence with which they express themselves.
• There are no consequences for a Thai official if they screw up, unless they do so in a way that causes their boss to lose face. You, on the other hand, will often need to bear the consequences of their mistakes.

I sympathise and, if this had happened to me, I would not be happy. However, anyone with long experience in Thailand will have found your story unsurprising. Unlucky: think of it as a learning experience.

 

In the future, immigration may use this longish overstay as an excuse to be strict with you in marginal situations.

[Matzzon]

4 hours ago, KittenKong said:

Maybe not, but it is the fault of incompetent and unduly complex immigration practices.

 

Any proper system would have a written procedure in place for every eventuality and would stick to the procedure rigidly nationwide. Here it is all done on a whim by individual officers, with no paper trail at all. That is entirely Thailand's fault.

Nope, it´s always the fault of the person that makes the bad judgement of overstaying. Actually an IO that recommends a person to overstay should be reported. 

[stubuzz]

Why is the MFA asking to see your visa to legalize your degree? They only took a copy of my bio page.

http://www.consular.go.th/main/th/services/1303/24762-Procedure-of-Document-Authentication-by-Mail.html

[wisperone]

Maybe consider it a blessing in disguise.

[Thailand]

11 hours ago, Pilotman said:

Jomtein Immigration issue new extension applicants with a letter telling them the date to report for a bank book check of their 800K and what is required of them, so to answer your question;  yes. 

And that would be to that persons benefit how? That is not related to the OP.

[tifino]

there's always the thought about being careful about forcing an IO to put his opinion down in writing!

- as whatever he writes... will be written into your passport

[BestB]

13 hours ago, jojolion said:

Yeah I was going to leave, but the school I worked at convinced me to stay as they said they would talk to immigration and try to get something in writing that I could stay until then. I told them to make sure they ask clearly so I wouldn't be blindsided. It seems they couldn't get anything in writing but they assured me that immigration told them there would be no problems with my overstay. Some good news is, it seems the school will help me with the overstay fine.

If you recall I told you what happened to me and even with a letter from immigration captain I was still charged for 9 days overstay. And it was the very same immigration office in Pattaya . Even if you had it certified , immigration still would have charged you for overstay ????

[The Man Who Sold the World]

jojolion;

 

Thanks for the report. Chalk it up to lessons learned. In your case, as is the case in most, only you suffer the consequences of the actions. The pro side is your school is "helping" with the fine. The con side is you now have documented an "overstay". Can't undo the past.

 

Thanks again for posting your experience, it will help some folk in the future. "Lessons Learned". 

[Pilotman]

3 hours ago, Thailand said:

And that would be to that persons benefit how? That is not related to the OP.

I answered the question asked by the poster.   I do wish that people would actually read the posts. 

[1FinickyOne]

On 8/10/2019 at 6:14 PM, Thailand said:

As a matter of interest has anybody ever had an immigration officer write down anything that could be used as "evidence" at a later date?

No, but I have had on a few occasions immigration officers work overtime to help unravel some mistakes that I made and assist me in my visa adventures... they have always been polite and helpful.. 

[mngmn]

As with many things in Thailand it was most likely intial incompetence followed by malicious enjoyment at the sight of someone suffering.

 

And to all those who say it is your fault, please explain when you should follow the instructions of a Thai IO and when it is safe to ignore them?

[JulesMad]

You should know by now: immigration is ALWAYS right, because they have the power over ALL foreigners.

[Isaanbiker]

On 8/10/2019 at 9:25 PM, stubuzz said:

Why is the MFA asking to see your visa to legalize your degree? They only took a copy of my bio page.

http://www.consular.go.th/main/th/services/1303/24762-Procedure-of-Document-Authentication-by-Mail.html

Something doesn't add up here.