Thais borrow early and get trapped in a cycle of debt

[jastheace]

7 minutes ago, mania said:

Or maybe it is all Wimpy's fault from Popeye with his

" I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a Hamburger Today"  ????

if anyone could sum up the western worlds fiscal policies for the last 6 decades in 2 sentences, yep, that'll do nicely....

and.... was he the fat one ?.... aaaaahhh makes even more sense now, meow....

PS mania, do you never sleep or is there a time difference to here and where you are ?

Edited August 13, 2019 by jastheace
added comment to mania direct

[Tayaout]

8 hours ago, elliss said:

 

  Not to worry matey , she will have a new credit card soon.

    Farlang can take of thai lady debt , no problem , big money ..

 

She spend about 3K baht a month so very unlikely. She learned from her mother that spend even less that learned from the grand-mother that spend like 500 a month. I usually spend more in a day than all of them combined lol. She only got a credit card to give gold for her family when she got her first "paying" office job. I know what she spend because she ask my permission everytime.

Edited August 13, 2019 by Tayaout

[gunderhill]

21 hours ago, Benmart said:

Nothing like bringing religion into a topic that was not mentioned in the original post.

as  bringing  in "the  rest  of  the  world"

[hellohello123]

For those that insist on all debt is bad and they live or aim to live without any form of credit cards or loans or home loans ever

 

credit cards CAN be a useful tool, you can even make money off it by taking advantage of interest free periods, but its not for everyone, I currently have 7 credit cards

 

also not all debt is bad, there is  good debt and bad debt, google it

 

the rich people in this world, the bransons, the gates, the trumps for example have gazillions in debt, without it, they probably wouldnt be in their current positions

[baboon]

15 hours ago, Ctkong said:

Living debt free but without modern amenities is not living. Think of amenities such as air conditioning, plumbing, roofing , refrigeration, washing machine, oven, dishwasher ,cars, bikes, auto garden watering system, tv electronics... all strive to free up people from doing mundane work day in and out while letting them enjoy their free up time with all that life can offer. However the caveat is that you must have financial freedom to do all that. 

A vicious circle. Work longer and harder in order to afford labour saving devices you wouldn't need if you weren't working longer and harder in order to pay for them. There's irony for you...

[Brickbat]

Debt Bomb , worldwide. Mortgage stress everywhere, worse than 2008. Next gfc will be much worse. Yet greed and stupidity and history makes no difference to losers. The rich get richer when they mop up at bargain prices. I’d say 2020. Ironic as it’s not 2020 vision of what’s to come. This time round, Central Banks have nowhere to go to stimulate when the crisis hits as rates head to zero and borrowers gush .....and blush at their new found borrowed assets

[Isaan sailor]

A friend of my wife ran up debts to finance her high lifestyle—in the gaps between farang boyfriends.  Faced with big debts, she was forced to sell 1/2 of her land in the village.  New landowner cut down old trees and erected a wall within 1 meter of her house.  Very sad.  Should teach money management/budgeting in middle school.

[Kleepanna]

Went through rough patch with my thai GF after i put my foot down and started saying NO and intorducing the word BUDGET when i actually sat her dow and showed her on paper the difference of money coming in vs going out and how long it would take to run through savings she decided to get a job to support the things I hands down said no to.  (2 adult males at home with mom no job (NO) folks asking for loans NO. So she finally moved her mom into a smaller place just enough room for her and her daughter to save money after a few months of of being broke with nothing to show for her efforts.  I made it clear to her spend money like im not in your life because they day can come when I'm not and you will be able to maintian things on your own.

[ExpatOilWorker]

10 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

Congratulations, you didn't manage to comprehend what he talked about at all.

 

He talked about the Pension/Wealth fund sizes compared to debt and GDP: https://www.atlas-mag.net/en/article/pension-funds-in-2017-the-powerful-rise#targetText=Pension%20funds'%20Assets%20%2F%20GDP%20in,43.4%20trillion%20USD%20in%202017.

 

As you can see countries like Denmark have giant pension funds, x times the amount of their debt.

Which makes them look overall very healthy, there are some countries like germany that don't have giant pension funds, they store their assets in different vehicles, that's why.

 

SRC: https://www.bundesbank.de/resource/blob/732996/2a932aa105a9bb491de40b1636e4fc04/mL/2018-04-auslandsvermoegen-data.pdf#targetText=Germany's%20net%20external%20assets%2C%20ie,liabilities%20of%20%E2%82%AC6%2C417%20billion.

 

This means germany is actually quite healthy too - more asset value than it has liabilities. Net assets reaching around 50% of GDP. 

 

Couldn't find numbers for Thailand tho

Thanks for the link and good post.

Thailand is actually listed, but way down at 7.1% of GDP in pensions assets (2017).

[Fred white]

6 hours ago, mania said:

I know that was probably tongue in cheek but......

 

Not at all as I never said live poorly I said live debt free.

 

Perhaps many are too young to remember but that was how it was even decades ago in America.

The only debt folks had was a mortgage & they threw every extra penny against it till it was gone & then had a mortgage burning party.

 

Living debt free is not hard it is just not buy now & pay later easy mentality

 

Instead it is save for what you want/need.

Seriously half the time it saves you from buyers remorse as when you save the money many times you later decide nah...don't need that.

 

When I was young I would watch my mom buy things on what they called "Lay Away"

She would pick what the item was say a washer or appliance...Set it on Lay Away with a deposit then make what ever payments she wanted to or could

As long as something went on the bill monthly no matter how big or small all was fine.

No Interest was charged & when paid off item went home with her 100% paid for.

 

You know Central Bankers started all this nonsense of buy now pay later & all we want is a tiny interest rate (usually payment is smaller than your monthly interest total).

Because truthfully they don't want to be paid back...no they want you to turn that wheel of interest instead & let balance grow!...Free Money for them

 

Or maybe it is all Wimpy's fault from Popeye with his

" I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a Hamburger Today"  ????

Sears credit card was like that high interest low payments if all you did was make the minimum payment it would take almost 20 years to pay off

[HeyHeyHey]

17 hours ago, Yinn said:

I not stupid to pay this....

 

https://www.domain.com.au/news/ten-of-the-most-rundown-sydney-dump-houses-sold-in-2017-20171230-h05aed/

 

great quality!!! 5555555555

wonderful!!!

Yea you are stupid, otherwise you would understand they pay that money for the land.

 

And not ignore 90% of my reply, because you are unable to find arguments.

Edited August 14, 2019 by HeyHeyHey

[StevieAus]

On 8/13/2019 at 4:55 AM, ezzra said:

Inherently, Thais mentality is 'Let's spend now and think how to repay it later' are also bad at money managements, loyalty  and diligence to a workplace not to mention honesty, plus their family commitments to help each other at all time, so no wonder most thais are cashless and wanting, and the never ending chase for luxury items puts them in the hock even further...

I read recently that Australia after the Netherlands,Denmark and Norway has the fourth highest level of household debt.

Based on your contentions the people of those countries must be suffering from a worse mentality problem than the Thais.

[ThomasThBKK]

16 minutes ago, StevieAus said:

I read recently that Australia after the Netherlands,Denmark and Norway has the fourth highest level of household debt.

Based on your contentions the people of those countries must be suffering from a worse mentality problem than the Thais.

 

That's not how it works, debt != debt.

 

Denmark for example 280% debt per household of net disposable income.

On the other hand they have TWICE THAT in Net assets. 

 

It's not a problem to have 1 million USD in debt if you have 2 mio USD in Assets, debt is used to grow and build up your financial assets like pension savings.

They save around 15% of their gross income for their private pensions...

Denmark has unique low cost mortgage system, many danes build their own homes. That's not bad longterm, there's no need to be debt free - you just have to have a net positive balance to be able to pay off your debt if needed. It often doesn't make sense to pay your house in cash, even if you can, mortages make more sense as long as they cost less than what you would earn on other investments like indexfunds. Even if u exclude their pension savings danes are still net positive on asset balance...

 

Imho, Australia is the only unhealthy of these countries, 29% of australians are over indebted - net negative assets....Seems to be common for english native speaking countries, UK and USA have similar issues.

[RobertBoulder]

7 hours ago, Isaan sailor said:

A friend of my wife ran up debts to finance her high lifestyle—in the gaps between farang boyfriends.  Faced with big debts, she was forced to sell 1/2 of her land in the village.  New landowner cut down old trees and erected a wall within 1 meter of her house.  Very sad.  Should teach money management/budgeting in middle school.

Sad to hear.

[Number 6]

18 hours ago, Selatan said:

In Malaysia, there is a popular ethnic Malay saying "Biar papa asal bergaya". Roughly means "It's okay to be penniless, as long as we have style." Do they have a similar saying among the Thais? The ethnic Chinese in Malaysia don't have this saying in their culture. Not sure about the Thai Chinese.

Some decades ago in Myanmar a Burmese lamented to me.

 

The Chinese are good at making money. We Burmese are good at spending it.

 

Benar?

[Melbun]

17 hours ago, Kleepanna said:

Went through rough patch with my thai GF after i put my foot down and started saying NO and intorducing the word BUDGET when i actually sat her dow and showed her on paper the difference of money coming in vs going out and how long it would take to run through savings she decided to get a job to support the things I hands down said no to.  (2 adult males at home with mom no job (NO) folks asking for loans NO. So she finally moved her mom into a smaller place just enough room for her and her daughter to save money after a few months of of being broke with nothing to show for her efforts.  I made it clear to her spend money like im not in your life because they day can come when I'm not and you will be able to maintian things on your own.

Well be careful !! the day when you are not in her life can be easily hastened. Advice: don't stand anywhere near a sheer drop with her standing behind you ????

[mania]

On 8/13/2019 at 12:27 PM, jastheace said:

PS mania, do you never sleep or is there a time difference to here and where you are ?

Sorry missed this........ Yes I sleep & yes time difference as I am currently in the US

 

It is funny but I post on TV mainly when I am not in Thailand ????

Edited August 14, 2019 by mania

[rodknock]

well i will say this, that is the American way!

give you more to take and stay indebted for the rest of your life!!

Thais are just following a good example!!

[Melbun]

23 hours ago, hellohello123 said:

For those that insist on all debt is bad and they live or aim to live without any form of credit cards or loans or home loans ever

 

credit cards CAN be a useful tool, you can even make money off it by taking advantage of interest free periods, but its not for everyone, I currently have 7 credit cards

 

also not all debt is bad, there is  good debt and bad debt, google it

 

the rich people in this world, the bransons, the gates, the trumps for example have gazillions in debt, without it, they probably wouldnt be in their current positions

Granted - but let's not equate the mega rich with average folk. Credit cards are definitely useful - if someone doesn't spend beyond what they earn. And many do. Seven credit cards ??? a recipe for looming disaster. I know a fellow that has many credit cards - he shuffles money from one card to another to service his monthly repayments on each. He is lost to debt. I feel the banks and governments are softening us up to be reliant to the use of plastic. They are control tools and a method of spying on us. Question: how are you going to have a secret bonk by using plastic ?? get the message. You won't even be able to wipe your bottom without someone knowing.

[hellohello123]

2 hours ago, Melbun said:

Granted - but let's not equate the mega rich with average folk. Credit cards are definitely useful - if someone doesn't spend beyond what they earn. And many do. Seven credit cards ??? a recipe for looming disaster. I know a fellow that has many credit cards - he shuffles money from one card to another to service his monthly repayments on each. He is lost to debt. I feel the banks and governments are softening us up to be reliant to the use of plastic. They are control tools and a method of spying on us. Question: how are you going to have a secret bonk by using plastic ?? get the message. You won't even be able to wipe your bottom without someone knowing.

I wont get into the details, but I have 7. as I signed up for those bonuses, 5 of those are unused (which probably means I should cancel them), I am one of those fortunate people that has only paid interest on credit cards a few times when my micro business failed,

 

life throws curveballs at you, and we all go through rough patches,

 

but I have no sympathy those that are always up to their eyeballs in debt through lifestyle choices

 

 

business debt is a different thing

[onera1961]

On 8/13/2019 at 2:03 PM, dallen52 said:

20% is common as a charge. 

More in the US for credit cards and pay-day loan. Not a Thai phenomenon. I bet credit card charges are also high in Europe. Not sure about pay-day-loan.

 

[DrTuner]

9 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

More in the US for credit cards and pay-day loan. Not a Thai phenomenon. I bet credit card charges are also high in Europe. Not sure about pay-day-loan.

I think debit cards are more popular than  credit cards in Europe. I always thought the whole credit card-cheque thing was ancient and only used in US. 

[Fred white]

3 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

I think debit cards are more popular than  credit cards in Europe. I always thought the whole credit card-cheque thing was ancient and only used in US. 

In the US I rairly used cash I would use my debit card for most purchases

[onera1961]

2 hours ago, DrTuner said:

I think debit cards are more popular than  credit cards in Europe. I always thought the whole credit card-cheque thing was ancient and only used in US. 

But debit cards are different. How can you borrow from debit cards?

What is credit card-cheque? In the US, checks from Credit card companies are low interest cash advance. They  typically don't have interest rate for one year and charge 3% as cash advance fee. So basically you can borrow cash up to your limit at 3% for one year. If you borrow $10,000 USD you just pay 300 USD as cash advance and then for one year you don't pay any interest on the borrowed money. After one year, if you still owe money, you resume your typical credit card interest payment that can be 10%-28%. The advantage of having a large number of credit cards is that you can borrow from one credit card to another after one year and just pay 3%. SO basically you can borrow 10K USD and keep paying 3% interest for several years using multiple credit cards.

[dallen52]

3 hours ago, onera1961 said:

More in the US for credit cards and pay-day loan. Not a Thai phenomenon. I bet credit card charges are also high in Europe. Not sure about pay-day-loan.

 

Agree.

But this is not an annual charge. 

Its for the duration. 

Say 20% one week 

10% one month. 

(Gold shops do similar with the value between pure gold and the actual thai baht gold prices as the interest rate.)

There is a intermediary, normally some relative who introduces and obviously takes a slice. 

The repayments are set up like a garnishe from a bank account. 

Quite common to borrow to repay the borrowing. 

 

Oh, not forget the government loans. 

Usually available in the villages. 

Anything from 10,000 to 2 million baht.

Duration normally one year and about 1%.

You have to pay back to be eligible for the next years allocation.

Its how the village people survive. 

[dallen52]

Sums up the thai problem. 

Incoming-v- outgoing  

 

 

[RobertBoulder]

^{I've managed to solve my financial difficulties with the help of online loans. In the past I associated money borrowing with the collection of many documents. Not now. With this service I do everything in the web. The company is focused on quick loans. Which is exactly my case. I wait only one day for approval. My personal data is secured at https://installmentcredits.com/quick-loans.html. There I simply borrow money before payday. This company is one of the most up-to-date in the world, in my opinion.}

Edited August 15, 2019 by RobertBoulder

[Fred white]

2 hours ago, dallen52 said:

Sums up the thai problem. 

Incoming-v- outgoing  

 

 

I'll take the monthly income you can keep the fake bills ????

[MaxYakov]

They're a little slow, but they're learning how to do it.

[Selatan]

On 8/14/2019 at 7:31 PM, Number 6 said:

Some decades ago in Myanmar a Burmese lamented to me.

 

The Chinese are good at making money. We Burmese are good at spending it.

 

Benar?

No idea benar(true) or not because I'm not familiar with Burmese culture, but I have sort of heard of a similar saying before but unsure of the ethnicities. 

 

I have this feeling that the Austronesian people (Filipinos, Indonesians, Malays, Thais, Myanmar) tend to be less careful with money than the Chinese, which probably was one reason why the Chinese dominate the economies of Southeast Asia, the other reason being the Chinese also tend to be more hardworking and have natural business instincts.