Is the closure of your favorite bar or restaurant imminent?

[grifbel]

15 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

that people change what they want and owners that need to make money have to change with the times. 

 

Happens in every city in every country

Excellent points.  Hard to believe that some people's lives are so tied to whether their preferred bar is still open.  Change and development is a constant in life, get used to it and adapt!

[grifbel]

On 8/15/2019 at 12:08 PM, bkk6060 said:

going by the waste side. 

Would have been a fantastic pun, had the topic been garbage recycling centers....unfortunately it's not

https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/go+by+the+wayside

 

Teaching moment over

[Leaver]

On 8/17/2019 at 10:38 AM, grifbel said:

Excellent points.  Hard to believe that some people's lives are so tied to whether their preferred bar is still open.  Change and development is a constant in life, get used to it and adapt!

The establishments I refer to are not just "bars." 

 

They offer "comfort food" and beverages from back home, which I occasionally crave.  They offer entertainment by way of sport on the TV, and in house competitions for minor prizes.

 

They arrange tours and trips for tourists, and things like golf for expats.

 

They offer visa services and advice.   

 

They don't offer sex.

 

They are a regular meeting point for friends to catch up. 

 

Many of these places used to be rammed, not so now.  Will the sky fall down if they start closing, no, but I will miss them.

Edited August 19, 2019 by Leaver

[Leaver]

On 8/16/2019 at 8:53 PM, crazykopite said:

the Thai lady who rents it said she could no longer afford the running costs as the landlord had put the rent up considerably ☹️☹️

Due to the hoards of Chinese tourists coming here now, the demand for accommodation has increased, while there has been no corresponding demand for alcohol and sex from this demographic.

 

Not that I care too much for them, but all those tin roof, single story, beer bars, are now just a waste of land.  Many will make way for hotels in the future. 

 

The Thai landlords have no concept of what a business can sustain, so the property can remain rented, and the tenant run a successful business.  If the restaurant was capable of seating, for example, 20 people, the Thai landlords charge rent on 20 people, constantly seated, buying food, every day, the whole time the restaurant is open, which is simply unrealistic.  

 

As some of our favorite places close, we will adjust and move to other places.  This will see the businesses able to survive, get busier.  Then, the Thai landlord raises the rent on those surviving businesses, and they will pass that cost onto us, the customers, because the few places left that survived will know there few options left for farang customers to go to.  

[Rookiescot]

Fully aware that this is Pattaya we are talking about here but I thought I might chip in with what I perceive in Udon.

I have no idea how some of these beer bars are still open. I can only guess there must be a sponsor putting cash in. Some go days with no customers whatsoever. The girls start to find employment elsewhere and the downward spiral continues because the bar cant find girls to replace those that left.

There is an atmosphere of gloom in some of them. As if everyone is resigned to its fate.

 

Yes there are a reasonable number of expats living in and around Udon so there is always some guys going drinking but as for tourists its been pretty quiet for a few years now. Even during peak season.

 

Not all bad news though. I dont think I have ever been so popular or indeed hansum.

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

Fully aware that this is Pattaya we are talking about here but I thought I might chip in with what I perceive in Udon.

I have no idea how some of these beer bars are still open. I can only guess there must be a sponsor putting cash in. Some go days with no customers whatsoever. The girls start to find employment elsewhere and the downward spiral continues because the bar cant find girls to replace those that left.

There is an atmosphere of gloom in some of them. As if everyone is resigned to its fate.

 

Yes there are a reasonable number of expats living in and around Udon so there is always some guys going drinking but as for tourists its been pretty quiet for a few years now. Even during peak season.

 

Not all bad news though. I dont think I have ever been so popular or indeed hansum.

I remember being in Udon Thani, on the way to Vientiane, during the Global Financial Crisis.  The farang establishments in Udon Thani were quite busy at that time, as many of the foreigners had to move back to the village because they could no longer afford to live in the tourist areas in the south.

 

Issan cities, towns and villages may see a similar influx in the near future, as many face affordability issues again.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Leaver

[Rookiescot]

45 minutes ago, Leaver said:

I remember being in Udon Thani, on the way to Vientiane, during the Global Financial Crisis.  The farang establishments in Udon Thani were quite busy at that time, as many of the foreigners had to move back to the village because they could no longer afford to live in the tourist areas in the south.

 

Issan cities, towns and villages may see a similar influx in the near future, as many face affordability issues again.

I hope so.

I like Udon. Its too bad for traffic, has a reasonable mall and some good bars.

[swissie]

Just got back from 3 week holiday. Comments below only apply to the Soi 13/2 (Soi Post Office) and Soi 13/1 (Soi Yamato) and surrounding aerea.
   Yes, some small Bars have closed, having been replaced by Indian Restaurants. Now have 6 of them in a radius of 200 meters. Everything very "slow". There were nights, where there were NO customers in any of the many small Bars on Soi Post Office (around 11 PM). I felt like "the last Mohikan " or "the last Samurai". Many Indians patrolling in the night, in "wolf-packs" only.
Before we went to Beach Road to watch the girls go by. Now we go to Beach Road to watch the Indians go by. And, as other posters have mentioned, hard to find "slim & trim" girls.

    But there are some advantages: Less hustle and bustle, everything more relaxed. More "negotiating-power". A customer is a little bit more appreciated than before. A little bit.
    In case all those establishments live off the profits made in the High-Season, whats the point? Giving back all your profits during Low-Season?
Overall, I liked it just fine the way it was. Didn't miss the High-Season hype.

[Leaver]

18 hours ago, swissie said:

Just got back from 3 week holiday.

That would be called a snap shot, not constant observation by one residing here.

 

18 hours ago, swissie said:

Comments below only apply to the Soi 13/2 (Soi Post Office) and Soi 13/1 (Soi Yamato) and surrounding aerea.

I disagree.  I am seeing across all businesses catering for westerners.  I even recently went to Soi 6.  It wasn't just quiet, it was dead.

 

18 hours ago, swissie said:

Yes, some small Bars have closed, having been replaced by Indian Restaurants.

Which is my point.  We will see establishments that previously catered for westerners, now catering for Chinese and Indians.

18 hours ago, swissie said:

There were nights, where there were NO customers in any of the many small Bars on Soi Post Office

As well as nights where establishments that used to be rammed, now have a handful of customers.

18 hours ago, swissie said:

But there are some advantages: Less hustle and bustle, everything more relaxed

It's a Catch 22.  We all like less crowds, but it's those crowds (western tourists) that our favorite establishments rely upon.  They can not remain open from the custom of retired expats alone. 

 

18 hours ago, swissie said:

Overall, I liked it just fine the way it was. Didn't miss the High-Season hype.

And when your favorite places are turned into Indian restaurants, for example, where to from there?

[Leaver]

On 8/21/2019 at 5:59 PM, Rookiescot said:

I hope so.

I like Udon. Its too bad for traffic, has a reasonable mall and some good bars.

I am quite sure you will see more westerners in Udon over the the next 6 months.  

 

As establishments catering for westerners close in the south, it's possible those in Issan will become busy, as will those in Vietnam and other nearby countries.

[RoadWarrior371]

On 8/21/2019 at 6:26 AM, swissie said:

    But there are some advantages: Less hustle and bustle, everything more relaxed. More "negotiating-power". A customer is a little bit more appreciated than before. A little bit.
    In case all those establishments live off the profits made in the High-Season, whats the point? Giving back all your profits during Low-Season?
Overall, I liked it just fine the way it was. Didn't miss the High-Season hype.

Right on.  There are 1M+ people living in the Chonburi area.  If a few low budget, Ramen eating tourists leave, who the F cares.  I don't need the low budget crowds.  And no, Pattaya is not going away, but I laugh at all the gloom and doom posts.

[swissie]

On 8/22/2019 at 8:13 AM, Leaver said:

That would be called a snap shot, not constant observation by one residing here.

 

I disagree.  I am seeing across all businesses catering for westerners.  I even recently went to Soi 6.  It wasn't just quiet, it was dead.

 

Which is my point.  We will see establishments that previously catered for westerners, now catering for Chinese and Indians.

As well as nights where establishments that used to be rammed, now have a handful of customers.

It's a Catch 22.  We all like less crowds, but it's those crowds (western tourists) that our favorite establishments rely upon.  They can not remain open from the custom of retired expats alone. 

 

And when your favorite places are turned into Indian restaurants, for example, where to from there?

Well Leaver, you confirmed my own observations, extending beyond "my corner of Pattaya". Same same it seems.

But I would like to isolate your last sentence for further discussion:

"And when your favorite places are turned into Indian restaurants, for example, where to from there?"

 

Indian tailors have been present for ages in Pattaya. Now we have an abundance of Indian Restaurants. We also have Indians strolling on Beach Road between 2 AM and 5 AM. Never alone, operating in "wolf-packs" trying to convince a Beach Road Lady that in Calcutta or Mombay the equivalent of 500 Bht will accommodate 3 customers (at least).
Unless in absolute dire straits, Beach Road Ladies usually decline this generous offer. My observation. Or those Indian Customers have not read the book "The Art of the Deal" by a quite famous author.

Predictable: The (present) Indian Scouts will eventually bring in "low cost female flesh" from India.

 

Your Quote: "And when your favorite places are turned into Indian restaurants, for example, where to from there?"

 

Answer: Us Farangs might be visiting Indian Restaurants instead of Bars. Studying the menu-card and ordering something that has nothing to do with food.
My future vision of Pattaya. I might be right, I might be wrong. The future will tell.
Cheers.

[Da Nang]

"Soi Yamato" I think the Yamato is gone too. Today new Sailor Inn from soi 13/2.

 

Not positive!

[Leaver]

13 hours ago, swissie said:

Predictable: The (present) Indian Scouts will eventually bring in "low cost female flesh" from India.

 

The Chinese are already doing it.  Just have a look at one of the phone apps that connects you to nearby people.

 

13 hours ago, swissie said:

Us Farangs might be visiting Indian Restaurants instead of Bars.

This is possible.  Then, it's time to leave.

[Banana7]

One of my favourite bars closed its doors. The foreign owner said he couldn't make enough to sustain his family, because he had to pay 4 external entities special benefits, medical care and good education were too costly also. He returned to his native country because good education and medical care are free, food quality is safe and excellent, no external entity payments.

 

Another one has put his restaurant/bar up for SALE.  He'll be returning to his native country with his Thai wife and children. I'm not sure of all of the reasons but increased external entity payments is one Big reason. 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2019 by Banana7

[smedly]

On 8/21/2019 at 11:48 AM, Leaver said:

Not that I care too much for them, but all those tin roof, single story, beer bars, are now just a waste of land.  Many will make way for hotels in the future. 

top of soi7 is a fine example - I believe that whole area will be leveled within 12 months...…...all of it

[sunnyboy2018]

On 8/13/2019 at 3:23 PM, Leaver said:

Seriously guys, is there no concern for the establishments you frequent?

 

I know I have seen a few of my favorite places really struggling, to the point I would not be surprised to see their doors closed soon.

 

A few of these are well established and nice places, that did have regular, and repeat clientele.

 

Good food.  Pleasant staff.  Nice environment. Cold beer.  All the sport on.  I will miss them, if / when they close. 

Many should close. Mind numbingly <deleted> music and wall to wall sports on TV have ruined most bars, killed conversation, and encouraged the lowest kind of drinkers. Bars don't know if they are sports bars or dance clubs. No need for loud UDM etc and no need for people nursing a pint all night, staring at a screen and then getting angry, depressed, emotional or irrationally joyful because of some commonplace event miles away.

[sunnyboy2018]

44 minutes ago, smedly said:

top of soi7 is a fine example - I believe that whole area will be leveled within 12 months...…...all of it

Good riddance. At least the same establishment on beach rd have a sea view, nice at sunset but soi 7 and 8 are the pits with perhaps the crassest, most puerile music in the world. Any establishment that plays 'hands up' music full of vile swear words deserves to be closed down.

[Leaver]

11 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

wall to wall sports on TV have ruined most bars, killed conversation

It's called, "entertainment." 

[mrblonde]

Jenny Star Bar on Walking Street closed many moons ago already....    ????

[Leaver]

On 8/26/2019 at 5:29 AM, sunnyboy2018 said:

At least the same establishment on beach rd have a sea view, nice at sunset

That is true, but a group of Chinese or Indians, sitting on a can of coke or bottle of water for an hour, to watch the sunset, is hardly profitable. 

 

In the current climate, how long before those bars have to close?

[Chivas]

I just cant see any recovery in Pattaya at all....its clearly not going to completely close down but the real problem is so many traditional vistitors currencies are weak against the USD and by conclusion the Baht as well.

I can see a 60% cull by this time next year for sure

[Leaver]

1 minute ago, Chivas said:

I just cant see any recovery in Pattaya at all....its clearly not going to completely close down but the real problem is so many traditional vistitors currencies are weak against the USD and by conclusion the Baht as well.

I can see a 60% cull by this time next year for sure

The baht is artificially strong, and the Chinese government have, or will, devalue the yuan, in order to engage in the trade war with America.  

 

How long before a lower value yuan sees Chinese bookings contract, then we are talking Pattaya looking like a ghost town, but not that big money came from this demographic anyway.

 

Will Pattaya collapse, of course not.  Will there be a lot of closures, for sure. 

 

I wouldn't say 60%, but I would say significant closures, hence why I started this thread. 

[Chivas]

7 minutes ago, Leaver said:

The baht is artificially strong,

 I wouldn't say 60%, but I would say significant closures, hence why I started this thread. 

Well the Baht may well be too strong against the USD I agree but the other side of the currency pairing that forms half of the "bottom line" has absolutely nothing to do with Thailand

Sterling/Dollar Euro/Dollar AUD/Dollar etc.....until those ratios improve and for Brits obviously Brexit has sunk Sterling than some tough times ahead. I can see Sterling improving but not the Euro and AUD and those currencies form a huge part of traditional visitors

Edited August 27, 2019 by Chivas

[Leaver]

8 minutes ago, Chivas said:

Well the Baht may well be too strong against the USD I agree but the other side of the currency pairing that forms half of the "bottom line" has absolutely nothing to do with Thailand

Sterling/Dollar Euro/Dollar AUD/Dollar etc.....until those ratios improve and for Brits obviously Brexit has sunk Sterling than some tough times ahead. I can see Sterling improving but not the Euro and AUD and those currencies form a huge part of traditional visitors

I agree.

 

Some establishments will survive, and some will close. 

 

It may be establishments catering to people from certain countries will close, due to that country's low currency exchange.

 

Time will tell.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Leaver

[Destiny1990]

Maids in hotels , song teaw drivers, restaurant staff , condo sellers and condo rental agents all of them complained about extreme low revenues. 

[jacko45k]

20 hours ago, Leaver said:

That is true, but a group of Chinese or Indians, sitting on a can of coke or bottle of water for an hour, to watch the sunset, is hardly profitable. 

 

In the current climate, how long before those bars have to close?

You don't really see them in the bars. Although they will stand in large groups between you and the sunset view.

[Leaver]

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

You don't really see them in the bars. Although they will stand in large groups between you and the sunset view.

You do see them in large groups, and they appear to be long term friends. 

 

It's a little like an end of season football team tour.  Maybe it's the end of the cricket season in India.  ????

[Leaver]

On 8/27/2019 at 5:01 PM, Destiny1990 said:

Maids in hotels , song teaw drivers, restaurant staff , condo sellers and condo rental agents all of them complained about extreme low revenues. 

I would be interested to know if advanced bookings for accommodation are down on last year for the high season. 

 

There may even be quite a few cancellations, particularly after Brexit, when people work out they just can't afford the type of holiday they are used to having here.

[Destiny1990]

21 minutes ago, Leaver said:

I would be interested to know if advanced bookings for accommodation are down on last year for the high season. 

 

There may even be quite a few cancellations, particularly after Brexit, when people work out they just can't afford the type of holiday they are used to having here.

Just Look around you to know what’s up.

I don’t foresee a booming high season coming either.