Is It Illegal To Go Through An Orange Light ?

[Berkshire]

7 minutes ago, alfieconn said:

Was in CM.

What area?  Hang dong?  Maejo?  San Kamphaeng? 

[55Jay]

OP, you're in the right.  All the way, buddy.  Appeal.  Give 'em hell.  Do a follow up post, tell us how it went. 

[chang1]

6 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Previous thread,

 

The translated law says "prepare to stop", I was prepared to but didn't as I was able to cross the stop line before the red light. Was I actually breaking the law? 

[alfieconn]

1 minute ago, 55Jay said:

OP, you're in the right.  All the way, buddy.  Appeal.  Give 'em hell.  Do a follow up post, tell us how it went. 

Sorry, i like a quiet life nowadays ????

Edited August 16, 2019 by alfieconn

[jastheace]

1 hour ago, KhunBENQ said:

It's a gray zone.

It the light turns yellow (as it is colored elsewhere) you have to break if possible without causing danger.
That's the rule in countries I know (not from Thai law but guess no different).

 

500 Baht is cheap.

I paid 800. A creeping pickup (almost walking speed) before me just made it for the right turn and I followed although the light went yellow before I passed the stopline.

 

Don't appeal!

agree, will cost more in time and stress, 500 B, no demerit points, job done. 

sure most will agree, no face lost here.

[stevenl]

9 minutes ago, chang1 said:

The translated law says "prepare to stop", I was prepared to but didn't as I was able to cross the stop line before the red light. Was I actually breaking the law? 

Yes, you were able to stop but did not do so. So you did break the law.

[blackcab]

Off topic posts have been removed. This topic is about the Road Traffic Act in Thailand, not the laws of any other country.

 

Posts with modified quotes have been removed. From the Forum Rules:

 

Please do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes or wording. Such posts will be deleted and the user warned.

[transam]

Perhaps their camera is set a weee bit early, I mean earlier than say a UK light camera. But for them it is a good earner eh...????

[CharlieH]

Title 2 /Section 22

"Yellow: the driver shall prepare to stop the vehicle behind the stop line. If the driver has passed the stop line when the traffic light turns yellow, he may go through."

 

You cannot pass through a yellow light unless you passed the stop line when it turned yellow.

 

I would think speed and road conditions also play a part.

 

Speed	Reaction distance	Braking distance
40km/h	17m	9m
50km/h	21m	14m
60km/h	25m	20m

 

depending on speed and distance from that stop line.

 

 

 

[chang1]

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Yes, you were able to stop but did not do so. So you did break the law.

There is no mention of able in the law, it says "prepare". What is the definition of prepare? 

I can be prepared to overtake a car by checking for oncoming traffic, checking my mirrors, checking road conditions and that I can see far enough ahead but even though I am prepared I can still decide not to.

[transam]

If you are doing 50kph and 20m before the line the light turns amber you will be stuffed to stop in time with their present rules and getting nicked..

[chang1]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

If you are doing 50kph and 20m before the line the light turns amber you will be stuffed to stop in time with their present rules and getting nicked..

Some lights have countdown timers or like mine flash before changing. I now stop on green if they do this and it is safe to - not that anything is safe on a Thai road.

[CGW]

1 hour ago, alfieconn said:

I don't but neither does anyone looking at the picture !

Twice in the last year I have had a ticket for going through a orange light. First time I was stopped by the Police after the junction and fined 400 Baht, the cop told me it was illegal to go through orange.

The second incident I got a 500 baht ticket through the mail, when my wife went to pay at the Police station they charged here only 108 Baht - figure that one? So - I would say yes, it is illegal in their eyes, pay the ticket and move on, ridiculous though it is....

[stevenl]

28 minutes ago, transam said:

If you are doing 50kph and 20m before the line the light turns amber you will be stuffed to stop in time with their present rules and getting nicked..

No, you won't since you won't get fined.

[brokenbone]

no, it is not illegal, you can argue that it was too late to stop

at orange light. and the traffic law is the same the world over,

the police were in the wrong.

 

ed: to clarify, as long as your front wheel passed the line the moment the red light comes on, -you are good to go

Edited August 16, 2019 by brokenbone

[chang1]

1 hour ago, LennyW said:

Slow down and prepare to stop on amber if safe to do so, by the looks of the picture you should and could have.

When do you slow down - on green or on amber?

What does "prepare to stop" mean?

Who decides if it is "safe"?

At what point does "should" become shouldn't?

When does "could" become couldn't?

Running a red light is unambiguous, running an amber light is a grey area open to interpretation. That is why I have never heard of anyone being done for going through on amber in the UK. Thailand should not be using cameras to fine anyone, for this, if there was no danger to other road users.

Edited August 16, 2019 by chang1

[eisfeld]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

No, you won't since you won't get fined.

Why? When it turns yellow, he is before the stop line. Because of physical laws, he wont be able to stop in front of the stop line. So he has to cross the intersection or stop in the middle of it. It would result in the same situation as the pictures in the OP. Yellow light before stop line, then probably turning red while in the middle of the intersection -> fine.

[eisfeld]

3 minutes ago, brokenbone said:

and the traffic law is the same the world over

Far, far from it. I'm surprised anyone would think that's the case.

[brokenbone]

6 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

Far, far from it. I'm surprised anyone would think that's the case.

if the set of principles was different from country to country,

any idea of international driving license or valid license from another country would not work at all,

the whole idea is that everyone follows the same set of rules,

or the result can only ever be chaos and bloodbath

[chang1]

1 minute ago, brokenbone said:

if the set of principles was different from country to country,

any idea of international driving license or valid license from another country would not work at all,

the whole idea is that everyone follows the same set of rules,

or the result can only ever be chaos and bloodbath

They may be similar but definitely not the same.

[stevenl]

14 minutes ago, brokenbone said:

no, it is not illegal, you can argue that it was too late to stop

at orange light. and the traffic law is the same the world over,

the police were in the wrong.

 

ed: to clarify, as long as your front wheel passed the line the moment the red light comes on, -you are good to go

No, not correct. You're making up the law: if safe to stop on yellow you have to stop.

[eisfeld]

2 minutes ago, brokenbone said:

if the set of principles was different from country to country,

any idea of international driving license or valid license from another country would not work at all,

the whole idea is that everyone follows the same set of rules,

or the result can only ever be chaos and bloodbath

Well there's no world-wide international driving license. The countries that are part of the IDP agreement have sufficiently similar rules but of course the laws are not 100% the same, that would be a huge undertaking to synchronize them. Thailand drives on the left while most other countries on the right is one obvious difference.

[stevenl]

13 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

Why? When it turns yellow, he is before the stop line. Because of physical laws, he wont be able to stop in front of the stop line. So he has to cross the intersection or stop in the middle of it. It would result in the same situation as the pictures in the OP. Yellow light before stop line, then probably turning red while in the middle of the intersection -> fine.

There is timning on these photos, if it takes too long after crossing the photo will be made, within the margin (don't ask me what margin) there will be no photo made.

 

We have now 2x someone crossing the line on yellow and getting fined, in both cases they were easily able to stop.

[chang1]

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

No, not correct. You're making up the law: if safe to stop on yellow you have to stop.

"if safe to stop on yellow you have to stop" you're making that up.

[transam]

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

No, not correct. You're making up the law: if safe to stop on yellow you have to stop.

What if it isn't safe, speed to high and a plum on your bumper...?

[brokenbone]

10 minutes ago, stevenl said:

No, not correct. You're making up the law: if safe to stop on yellow you have to stop.

its up to the driver to make that call,

alas he made the decision it wasnt safe,

and many times its downright impossible,

if the orange light comes on 5 meters before you cross the line, it cant be done,

and that is why the law is what it is,

- a caution that soon the red light will come on, and red light means no crossing.

if the two different lights would mean the same thing, why bother with it at all ?

Edited August 16, 2019 by brokenbone

[chang1]

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

There is timning on these photos, if it takes too long after crossing the photo will be made, within the margin (don't ask me what margin) there will be no photo made.

 

We have now 2x someone crossing the line on yellow and getting fined, in both cases they were easily able to stop.

"don't ask me what margin" so how can you say "were easily able to stop"? 

[eisfeld]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

There is timning on these photos, if it takes too long after crossing the photo will be made, within the margin (don't ask me what margin) there will be no photo made.

 

We have now 2x someone crossing the line on yellow and getting fined, in both cases they were easily able to stop.

We don't know the speed limit on this road. It looks like he was roughly 20m away from the stop line. When the picture with the orange light was taken. At just 50kph it would not be possible for him to stop before the line. And since this is a big highway the speed was probably higher even. Now as you said there is maybe a delay between the light switching and the camera taking a picture but we don't know if that's indeed the case and if so how long.

 

I can't read the timestamps, we could calculate his speed if we knew those times.

 

But I guess the overall conclusion we can come up with is that unless we know the timing of the camera, one can't conclude anything from those pictures. He might have broken the law or not. He could have even crossed the line when it was red already...

[stevenl]

6 minutes ago, chang1 said:

"if safe to stop on yellow you have to stop" you're making that up.

No.

5 minutes ago, transam said:

What if it isn't safe, speed to high and a plum on your bumper...?

If it isn't safe you don't stop. The photo will show that.

1 minute ago, brokenbone said:

its up to the driver to make that call,

alas he made the decision it wasnt safe

No, he went through yellow when he should have stopped, see the photo. Unless he was driving too fast of course and couldn't stop, in which case the excuse is not really strong ????

[chang1]

2 minutes ago, brokenbone said:

its up to the driver to make that call,

alas he made the decision it wasnt safe

In that case it is not up to the driver. It was up-to whoever decided it wasn't safe.