Details of mandatory health insurance for Non-Imm O-A visas to be announced next week

[mike787]

Just the beginning, more immigration belt tightening coming soon....

[Melbun]

10 minutes ago, mike787 said:

Just the beginning, more immigration belt tightening coming soon....

Mike stop it !! They are all incontinent already :)

[brian2f2f]

16 hours ago, Searat7 said:

They are just getting their feet wet by applying new insurance requirement to those seeking a new O-A visa. Sooner or later I feel this rule will apply to those seeking extensions as well. It would simply be too chaotic to apply this to extensions right away. Time will tell. 

Exactly that's why I'm waiting to see what happens. 

[Kalasin Jo]

One million baht of unpaid bills over 4 years? That's really diddly squat. I bet not much of that is longstayers not paying either.

[Neeranam]

I think this is good as those who don't have insurance will realize the benefits of having it. If they can't afford it, they should not be living here as an extended tourist.

[dick dasterdly]

3 hours ago, Melbun said:

Boo Hoo mate. Not Thailand's fault. So what do these cruddy old expats want if they have pre -existing illnesses ?? to have an exemption and not have to provide guaranteed surety to cover illness OR to have Thailand look after them for free. In your own country private health insurance doesn't cover pre- existing illness nor doesn't a lot of travel insurance.

Ignoring the insults, you're (deliberately, I suspect...) missing the point.

 

More than a few of us have lived here for many years and (for various reasons) found ourselves unable to procure adequate insurance at anything close to an affordable price (if at all..) any longer.

 

The new 'scheme' doesn't help, as it's reasonable to assume that as the insurance demanded will only be obtainable from private companies, it too will be far too expensive and will also exclude any pre-existing conditions - and I know from others' experiences that nearly anything can be put down to a pre-existing condition.....

 

I agree entirely that we expats shouldn't expect to receive free medical cover, but surely it would be better if we were able to buy into the 'govt. scheme' at a reasonable price?

[thasoss]

6 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

agree entirely that we expats shouldn't expect to receive free medical cover, but surely it would be better if we were able to buy into the 'govt. scheme' at a reasonable price

would be good but highly unlikely.

[Thaidream]

First of all- Healthcare is a human right- everyone has the right to life.  This consept is enshrined in most countries constitutions and it is a fact in the Universal Dclaration of

Human Rights.

 

A majority of long stay  extension holders in Thailand want to purchase some type of coverage but  are prohibited by the cost; age; and pre existing conditions.  Why pay a premium of 80,000 Thai Baht for coverage per year  to show a docucment to immigration- obtain an extension- and then when ill- the Insurance Company refuses to pay  That means the  patient/Visa holder- has usesless insurance and still has to pay the bill- .

 

The  Thai insurance companies operating under the long stay visa program are listed on the internet and have so many exclusions that  the coverage is useless and obviates the whole reason for it. It appears to simply a legal scam to enrich Thai Insurance companies and their shareholders.

 

The only way any mandatory coverage will work in Thailand is for the Thai Government to allow anyone holding a one year extension of stay to buy into the Thai Social Secuirty scheme which is approx- 457 Baht per month or aprox 5500 Baht per year.  This provides coverage at a Thai Government Hospital for everyone in the scheme. They could add co-pays on a percentage basis.

 

For those that do not want to use Government hospitals- they could buy expanded coverage from Thai insurance or foreign insurance. 

 

There has to be flexibility in the program but allowing a limited number of Thai companies to provide  limited coverage at high prices serves no one except a few vested interests.

 

[Melbun]

5 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Ignoring the insults, you're (deliberately, I suspect...) missing the point.

 

More than a few of us have lived here for many years and (for various reasons) found ourselves unable to procure adequate insurance at anything close to an affordable price (if at all..) any longer.

 

The new 'scheme' doesn't help, as it's reasonable to assume that as the insurance demanded will only be obtainable from private companies, it too will be far too expensive and will also exclude any pre-existing conditions - and I know from others' experiences that nearly anything can be put down to a pre-existing condition.....

 

I agree entirely that we expats shouldn't expect to receive free medical cover, but surely it would be better if we were able to buy into the 'govt. scheme' at a reasonable price?

I am not insulting anyone. Many of you want special treatment and rebelling about what is going to be the law of the land. For whatever reason, the Thai government want it this way. If you can't be covered  for per-existing illness, and can't get medical insurance coverage, the pertinent issue is - what are you going to do when an illness arises and you are not insured for it? Do you expect a foreign government to finance all pre-existing illnesses ? I think not. Why should they, and it would be costly and a logistical nightmare to implement.

[fforest1]

3 minutes ago, Melbun said:

I am not insulting anyone. Many of you want special treatment and rebelling about what is going to be the law of the land. For whatever reason, the Thai government want it this way. If you can't be covered  for per-existing illness, and can't get medical insurance coverage, the pertinent issue is - what are you going to do when an illness arises and you are not insured for it? Do you expect a foreign government to finance all pre-existing illnesses ? I think not. Why should they, and it would be costly and a logistical nightmare to implement.

Well if expats were not forced to buy expensive worthless health policies...They would then have money to pay for their heath care...

[dick dasterdly]

14 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I think this is good as those who don't have insurance will realize the benefits of having it. If they can't afford it, they should not be living here as an extended tourist.

I'm very happy to hear that you can afford to pay a ridiculous price for a policy that will end up covering virtually nothing (as a result of relatively minor pre-existing conditions)!

 

A few years ago I decided to renew my Bupa Int. policy (long story....) and was told it would cost me more than 1,500 sterling PER MONTH!  This was despite the fact that I had been insured with Bupa since the age of 20 or so - so all my relatively minor pre-existing conditions had occurred during the time I had been paying them!

 

Admittedly, I'm sure other companies would provide cover at a lower cost, but they would still exclude all pre-existing conditions and - as pointed out in an earlier post - nearly everything can be put down to a pre-existing condition....

[dick dasterdly]

11 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

First of all- Healthcare is a human right- everyone has the right to life.  This consept is enshrined in most countries constitutions and it is a fact in the Universal Dclaration of

Human Rights.

 

A majority of long stay  extension holders in Thailand want to purchase some type of coverage but  are prohibited by the cost; age; and pre existing conditions.  Why pay a premium of 80,000 Thai Baht for coverage per year  to show a docucment to immigration- obtain an extension- and then when ill- the Insurance Company refuses to pay  That means the  patient/Visa holder- has usesless insurance and still has to pay the bill- .

 

The  Thai insurance companies operating under the long stay visa program are listed on the internet and have so many exclusions that  the coverage is useless and obviates the whole reason for it. It appears to simply a legal scam to enrich Thai Insurance companies and their shareholders.

 

The only way any mandatory coverage will work in Thailand is for the Thai Government to allow anyone holding a one year extension of stay to buy into the Thai Social Secuirty scheme which is approx- 457 Baht per month or aprox 5500 Baht per year.  This provides coverage at a Thai Government Hospital for everyone in the scheme. They could add co-pays on a percentage basis.

 

For those that do not want to use Government hospitals- they could buy expanded coverage from Thai insurance or foreign insurance. 

 

There has to be flexibility in the program but allowing a limited number of Thai companies to provide  limited coverage at high prices serves no one except a few vested interests.

 

"A majority of long stay  extension holders in Thailand want to purchase some type of coverage but  are prohibited by the cost; age; and pre existing conditions.  Why pay a premium of 80,000 Thai Baht for coverage per year  to show a docucment to immigration- obtain an extension- and then when ill- the Insurance Company refuses to pay  That means the  patient/Visa holder- has usesless insurance and still has to pay the bill- .

The  Thai insurance companies operating under the long stay visa program are listed on the internet and have so many exclusions that  the coverage is useless and obviates the whole reason for it. It appears to simply a legal scam to enrich Thai Insurance companies and their shareholders."

 

Agree entirely.

 

"The only way any mandatory coverage will work in Thailand is for the Thai Government to allow anyone holding a one year extension of stay to buy into the Thai Social Secuirty scheme which is approx- 457 Baht per month or aprox 5500 Baht per year. "

 

The Thai Social Security Scheme is subsidised, and there is no reason for expats to also be subsidised - but it should be possible for expats to be able to pay a reasonable annual premium to obtain treatment in govt. hospitals.

 

I'm pretty sure that the majority of us would still use private health care for most things - so being able to pay an annual premium for govt. hospitals would benefit both private and govt. hospitals.

[Tuvoc]

5 hours ago, wgdanson said:

Who is that with please?

The UK health cover for non British  200 GBP  ( Bht 7,500 approx) is paid directly to the government at the time of your Visa application for certain longer stay (i.e. non-tourist) visas. It is part of the immigration process. I can't see that this actually covers their costs, but who knows. It doesn't cover prescriptions or dental for example, even UK residents we pay for that.

 

https://www.gov.uk/healthcare-immigration-application

 

And there is no loophole:

 

When you can start to use the NHS

You can start using the National Health Service (NHS) when both:

• you’ve paid the healthcare surcharge (or are exempt from paying it)
• your visa or immigration application is granted

Edited August 19, 2019 by Tuvoc

[Katipo]

On 8/18/2019 at 8:55 AM, burner2014 said:

Bt40,000 outpatient coverage???
This would be the worse. This means you need to buy a much more expansive coverage plan than you might need just for this visa. I am not interested in outpatient coverage and still forced to buy it?
This will shake out a lot of foreigners living here. As if the outpatient medical services would be the ones which have outstanding bills. No doctor treats you "outpatient" if you don't show your credit card or health insurance. It's all about emergencies (in terms of "open bills")

It looked a little high to me, so what I think they meant to say was 30k for ER Accidents such as getting smacked off a motorbike. That would make more sense.

[emptypockets]

9 hours ago, yogi100 said:

Those who run the country are quite happy for you or any other ex pat to leave as they personally have no financial interest in your remaining.

 

Like many Thai people they don't want ex pats or long termers in their country. They won't come out and say it but they want you to leave.

Agree to a certain extent.  When you look at the financial changes for extensions of stay it is perfectly clear they do not want retired single men. There were no changes to the marriage extensions. I conclude then that they welcome people married to a Thai who have a genuine reason to be here as opposed to single men who - in their opinion I guess - really add no value to the country and in many cases may be seen as a negative on the culture,  wrt  to mongers and sexpats.  Traditional Thais are quite conservative,  though the bar dwellers are unlikely  to see this in their closed worlds of Pattaya and Phuket where the Thai women they meet there are their yardstick of all Thai women. 

Edited August 19, 2019 by emptypockets

[dcnx]

4 hours ago, Max69xl said:

It still just about Long Stay O-A visas obtained from your home country. So what's the problem? 

That’s phase one. Everyone will have to have this. 
 

One group won’t get forced insurance while another group doesn’t. Use your head.

[Vacuum]

3 minutes ago, dcnx said:

That’s phase one. Everyone will have to have this. 
 

One group won’t get forced insurance while another group doesn’t. Use your head.

Expats who use the 'money in the bank' method are already covered. Why should they be forced to pay for an insurance that don't cover anything?

[john west]

23 hours ago, Tuvoc said:

 

For those of us with Thai wives, leaving Thailand isn't really an option in most cases !

Well put and bringing up the Family as best as one can with frozen state pensions but it is always financial and they never take in to account the homes of course not in our names.

 

[john west]

26 minutes ago, dcnx said:

That’s phase one. Everyone will have to have this. 
 

One group won’t get forced insurance while another group doesn’t. Use your head.

No only those getting visas from the UK and an extension of stay is not an A/O visa.

[rabas]

31 minutes ago, dcnx said:

That’s phase one. Everyone will have to have this. 
 

One group won’t get forced insurance while another group doesn’t. Use your head.

Probably not. They will likely grandfather some older long stays who would experience the most hardship. They did the same with financial qualifications years ago when they raised them. O-As are mostly newer retirees. Before O-A class, retirees used the same non-O as marriage.

[sumrit]

On 8/18/2019 at 8:55 AM, burner2014 said:

Bt40,000 outpatient coverage???
This would be the worse. This means you need to buy a much more expansive coverage plan than you might need just for this visa. I am not interested in outpatient coverage and still forced to buy it?
This will shake out a lot of foreigners living here. As if the outpatient medical services would be the ones which have outstanding bills. No doctor treats you "outpatient" if you don't show your credit card or health insurance. It's all about emergencies (in terms of "open bills")

I live in Chonburi and damaged my hip in a fall a few weeks ago (no, I wasn't drunk????) and went to Burapha University teaching hospital outpatients department in Bang Saen for treatment. I registered using my Pink ID Card and that's all I needed. They never asked for a credit card or insurance details. As it turned out the x-rays, treatment and medication only amounted to 1300 baht but it could have been a lot more expensive. Nobody asked me for 'proof of funds' when I went in or when I saw the doctors, etc.

[Straight8]

On 8/18/2019 at 10:52 AM, Time Traveller said:

Well yes, it would cover it. But this is all about Thai insurance companies making big profits. Why charge the foreigners 100 baht per person, when you can charge 10,000 baht per person. Knowing that they will pay! 

10,000 ????  You think tourist will pay that? I doubt it.

[Tuvoc]

2 hours ago, emptypockets said:

Agree to a certain extent.  When you look at the financial changes for extensions of stay it is perfectly clear they do not want retired single men. There were no changes to the marriage extensions. I conclude then that they welcome people married to a Thai who have a genuine reason to be here as opposed to single men who - in their opinion I guess - really add no value to the country 

 

Yes I came to similar conclusions, but again a married old retiree will have the same health risks as a single old retiree so you could also say it is inconsistent.

 

I'm retiring to Thailand late next year with my Thai wife. I had planned to get extensions based on retirement, as it is approved on the spot and documentation is easier, no witnesses etc, and the extra cash isn't an issue, but now I'm thinking I should go the marriage extension route as it could be more "future-proof" and they don't seem to like you switching from comments on here. Of course, in a year's time it could all be totally different.

 

Edited August 19, 2019 by Tuvoc

[Mango Bob]

30 pages of rants and rage here is not going to change anything the Thai government wants to do.  They will do it there way.  But for now it only apply to those who want to apply for an O/A visa in there home country and the rules will come out this week.  But the funny part is why is this information being given to Thai vsa from an Insurance company and not the government.  I do hope that someone can find out who owns these Thai companies that will be allowed to offer insurance to us.  I am sure that those connected to the government or families will be listed.  But for now it does not effect us here for extension of stay.   So save your rants if that happens.  30 pages is enough.

[Johnthplumb]

Yes, you are correct in all you say, lets wait until Thursday, when we have the correct wording of the insurance requirements. then let the rants begin again.

[lkv]

4 hours ago, rabas said:

Probably not. They will likely grandfather some older long stays who would experience the most hardship. They did the same with financial qualifications years ago when they raised them. O-As are mostly newer retirees. Before O-A class, retirees used the same non-O as marriage.

Wishful thinking, but the way i see it is like this:

 

A. Why would anyone "grandfather" an insurance non requirement? It was something long term visitors should have had, to begin with. It was an error, that people were accepted without insurance, and now this mistake is being corrected. This will be the official rhetoric/logic.

 

B. On the same logic with the affidavit, no Embassy will bother to certify foreign insurance, not that Immigration would accept it - they will keep blaming one another etc, in typical Thai fashion, as they have before - so bottom line is, local preferred insurance will very likely be required (yes, scam, but "this is the law" - not open to debate).

 

C. Nobody is retired here. The word "Retirement" on stamps is misleading. People over the age of 50 receive longer permissions of stay /extensions, for their visits. If regulations change, you simply do would not meet the requirements for an extension of stay, and you would terminate your visit.

 

D. They will probably accept a cash deposit on top of the 800K in lieu of insurance. That 800K is "living expenses", even though it stays blocked nowadays many months of the year (or part of).

Edited August 19, 2019 by lkv

[Rob3016]

The assertion that expats have unpaid hospital bills is somewhat difficult to believe. About 3 years ago I was in the hospital for a broken shoulder. I had superb travel health insurance and the hospital had a full 100% guarantee of payment. For all intensive purposes the hospital was keeping me in the hospital unnecessarily long because I had superb insurance. Yet the truth was the hospital provided terrible care. I rarely saw a nurse, they never changed my bandages.

 

Only when I decided I would go outside the hospital to get a second opinion regarding my care, wow at least 20 nurses appeared from nowhere demanding I pay my bill in full before I leave despite the fact the hospital had been provided a guarantee of payment from my insurance company. 

[mommysboy]

8 hours ago, <deleted> dasterdly said:

"A majority of long stay  extension holders in Thailand want to purchase some type of coverage but  are prohibited by the cost; age; and pre existing conditions.  Why pay a premium of 80,000 Thai Baht for coverage per year  to show a docucment to immigration- obtain an extension- and then when ill- the Insurance Company refuses to pay  That means the  patient/Visa holder- has usesless insurance and still has to pay the bill- .

The  Thai insurance companies operating under the long stay visa program are listed on the internet and have so many exclusions that  the coverage is useless and obviates the whole reason for it. It appears to simply a legal scam to enrich Thai Insurance companies and their shareholders."

 

Agree entirely.

 

"The only way any mandatory coverage will work in Thailand is for the Thai Government to allow anyone holding a one year extension of stay to buy into the Thai Social Secuirty scheme which is approx- 457 Baht per month or aprox 5500 Baht per year. "

 

The Thai Social Security Scheme is subsidised, and there is no reason for expats to also be subsidised - but it should be possible for expats to be able to pay a reasonable annual premium to obtain treatment in govt. hospitals.

 

I'm pretty sure that the majority of us would still use private health care for most things - so being able to pay an annual premium for govt. hospitals would benefit both private and govt. hospitals.

'

but it should be possible for expats to be able to pay a reasonable annual premium to obtain treatment in govt. hospitals.'

 

How much though?  Expats tend to be in the age group that gets increasingly more expensive.  I'd say it would need to be 50,000 per year at a guess.

[djayz]

11 hours ago, Max69xl said:

It still just about Long Stay O-A visas obtained from your home country. So what's the problem? 

You're absolutely right. My sincerest apologies for having expressed an opinion. 

[Tuvoc]

2 hours ago, mommysboy said:

'

but it should be possible for expats to be able to pay a reasonable annual premium to obtain treatment in govt. hospitals.'

 

How much though?  Expats tend to be in the age group that gets increasingly more expensive.  I'd say it would need to be 50,000 per year at a guess.

 

Maybe a bit more if it is to cover pre-existing conditions, and ongoing management of conditions that will pop up. Maybe as much as 100,000 per year. I'd be happy enough to pay that sort of figure if it is comprehansive.

Edited August 19, 2019 by Tuvoc