After Germany hints at compromise, France tells UK: no new Brexit deal

[bristolboy]

2 hours ago, St George said:

 

 

Gratitude is never irrelevant, nor is it time-barred.

 

Lest we forget...

Gratitude to those who earned it. They're mostly gone now. You don't get to inherit their laurels.

[Nigel Garvie]

5 hours ago, bristolboy said:

They revealed an important state secret? Namely, that Boris Johnson is clueless.

As revealed in this interesting article:-

 

The German Chancellor has played a brilliant joke on Boris Johnson by giving him 30 days to buy some elbow grease.

The British Prime Minister is today eagerly scouring the hardware stores of Europe after being tasked with obtaining some elbow grease in order to avoid a no-deal Brexit.

“I wouldn’t normally treat a fellow Head of State with so little respect,” said Ms Merkel. “But I can’t imagine Boris will be in post very long – he’s basically the work experience lad, isn’t he?

 

https://newsthump.com/2019/08/22/angela-merkel-pissing-herself-laughing-after-sending-new-boy-boris-on-errand-to-get-some-elbow-grease/?fbclid=IwAR1gr1yMVJljCA0YfLtZv5sLN6S8fYgmqaljoLS0-n4FTcrLORPR0Si_8Ls

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, david555 said:

Yes on request from a U.K. side individual .I know that you wish once more pointing it to us E.U. , let me tell you that even the E.U. lawyers where not happy with it , even more some demands in favor of E.U.in case where dismissed , that is why it was unilateral .

 

Nice try to " influence " but must look up that in the U.K. camp , in  remain or leave camp (?) , not ours 

Whatever are you talking about?

[puipuitom]

6 hours ago, Mansinthe said:

I feel sorry for the scotch whisky industry and After eight chocolate ????

And cheddar cheese.. i quess prices for that stuff will go up in the EU ????

Form 1 Nov onwards: import duty according WTO = "third country origin": see   https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/taric/taric_consultation.jsp?Lang=en  

0406 30         Processed cheese, not grated or powdered:    Third country duty (01-07-2000 - ) :  139.10 EUR / 100 kg   

1806 90 50   Sugar confectionery and substitutes therefor made from sugar substitution products, containing coco:  Third country duty into the EU: 38-43%

. So, the end of all exports of British produced confectionary to the EU. 

2208 30         Whiskies  "0% import duty, but alcohol excise

 

But.. do not worry: first of all the British pound sunk already a 25% ( that's why Lidl NL sells cheddar for a € 7,45/kg just above local Dutch Gouda chesse) , and with some "luck" it will sink a lot further, with that compensating the EU import duty. 

Second:  https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/dec/10/nestle-close-after-eight-factory .. After Eight for the EU is produced by the Nestle factory in Hamburg already a 30+ years. I audited their York plant around 1980: they still had ONLY leather belts to drive their machinery as in the 20-and 30's on the continent ... not as a museum, but.. all they had... 

[oldhippy]

4 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Could be. But I doubt it. More like Merkel being sensible and pragmatic and looking for the best outcome for everyone. While Napoleon Macron sees this as an opportunity for hypocritical cheating arrogant France to further it's own agenda to be the EU's "top dog". With the UK out of the EU and potentially not on good terms, Germany has lost it's powerful ally against France and French machinations.

 

UK and Germany, by and large, play by the rules. France breaks them, cheats them, bends them, interprets them with amazing creativity but above all, always looks after France. The crunch will come when Merkel, her successor, or the German people in general get fed up with Macron trying to Francophile the EU.

But... but... but... the Germans? the world wars? already forgotten?

And the German police guarding the Irish border as one of your lot predicted?

The traitors are amongst us, as yet anothet of you people posted!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[david555]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Whatever are you talking about?

E.U. had nothing to do with that , it came on a British request...from which side  ever 

 

("In record time too. Strange eh?")

[Sticky Wicket]

1 hour ago, puipuitom said:

I completely agree with you. Why some Brexiteers every time have to stirr up WW2 in this discussion ? Is there any French, who coems with the 100 years of British killing in France ? Or the Napoleontic wars the British started again and again against France ? "Cheese eating surrender monkeys"... Disgusting.

I think you need to re read your history books!

Nelson and Wellington stopped Britain becoming a republic.

After Bastille Day the French were trying to convert all countries into republics

Much as people hate the Royals they have helped shape the country into what it is now.

Some good Kings and Queens, a few rotters.

The story of England's history is a fascinating one, both religious & politically.

You should also do a bit of reading about the 100 year war!!

 

[david555]

4 minutes ago, Sticky Wicket said:

I think you need to re read your history books!

Nelson and Wellington stopped Britain becoming a republic.

After Bastille Day the French were trying to convert all countries into republics

Much as people hate the Royals they have helped shape the country into what it is now.

Some good Kings and Queens, a few rotters.

The story of England's history is a fascinating one, both religious & politically.

You should also do a bit of reading about the 100 year war!!

 

Yeah I liked Robin Hood the most ...????

[Opl]

9 minutes ago, david555 said:

Yeah I liked Robin Hood the most ...????

British officer: “You French fight for money, while we British fight for honor.”

Robert Surcouf: “Sir, a man fights for what he lacks the most.”

[david555]

As Boris didn't knew that before 

 

https://news.sky.com/story/live-macron-meets-johnson-after-warning-no-deal-brexit-will-be-britains-fault-11791091

Breaking

LIVE: No 'substantially new' Brexit deal in next 30 days, Macron tells Johnson

The latest updates as the prime minister holds talks with the French president in his bid to renegotiate the Brexit deal.

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/aug/22/brexit-latest-news-macron-boris-warns-boris-johnson-brexit-could-turn-uk-into-vassal-state-of-us-ahead-of-their-meeting-in-paris-live-news

Andrew Sparrow

Politics

Emmanuel Macron tells Boris Johnson backstop is 'indispensable' – live

Rolling coverage of the day’s political developments as they happen, including Boris Johnson’s meeting with the French president Emmanuel Macron in Paris

Macron/Johnson’s statements and Q&A -

 

Summary

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/aug/22/brexit-latest-news-macron-boris-warns-boris-johnson-brexit-could-turn-uk-into-vassal-state-of-us-ahead-of-their-meeting-in-paris-live-news?page=with:block-5d5e7bc58f081cf11cf1affe#block-5d5e7bc58f081cf11cf1affe

Macron/Johnson Q&A - Snap verdict

[jinjo]

6 hours ago, Sticky Wicket said:

Over 50 percent of deaths in WW2 were Russians, 20 million+

British deaths were comparatively small 

Actually you may have over looked China had according to Wikipedia from 14 to 20 million.  Sometimes we forget it was a truly global crisis.  May it never be repeated.

[DannyCarlton]

7 hours ago, superal said:

I fail to understand the stance of the EU over the Irish border . They have total disregard for the Good Friday agreement , maintaining peace and knowing full well that the UK government cannot renege . It is they that should be looking for a solution but instead are behaving like an ostrich . 

It's because of the ramifications of creating a hard border, the EU proposed the backstop, an acceptable solution which would prevent a hard border. The British negotiating team saw the sense in that and agreed. Problem solved. At the present time there is no other solution to the many problems that the absence of a border and Britain not being in the customs union, would create.

 

So off Boris goes to Europe, puffing his chest out and bouyed by the Tory hardliners and his base (several of whom post on this forum) and declares, "Look you foreign Johnnies, I'm Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson Premier of Britain and ruler of all that I survey, we're leaving on 31st October with a deal but you can stick your ruddy backstop where the sun don't shine!" (grins nervously).

 

Merkel replies calmly, "OK Herr Pfeffel, what do you replace the backstop with?"

 

Boris' "Err ummm err well...I'm sure that we can find a solution in a couple of years"

 

It's completely impractical to have no border arrangements in place for the next 2 years if we leave the customs union. It's just a nonsense.

 

Quick as a flash, Merkel replied, "Pfeffel, you have 30 days", clicking her heels as she spoke.

 

Of course Merkel knew that he had nothing in his locker, far greater minds than his have spent 3 years scratching their heads over the same problem with only the backstop as a viable proposal. Impossible in 30 days, even 2 years was probably a stretch.

 

"OK", Boris replied enthusiastically thinking he had won a great victory, " Yes we can do this in 30 days!"

 

Merkel replied between gritted teeth, "No Pffefel, YOU can do this in 30 days". Stitched him up like a kipper.

 

Today Macron was less diplomatic. When Boris put his master plan to him to get rid of the backstop, Macron replied, "Do you think I'm a fool? Have a word with yourself Boris, you're an idiot, the backstop stays"

 

I wonder how Boris is going to spin this when he gets back to Tory central office.

 

So in answer to your statement, it's Boris who is the ostrich and Boris who needs to come up with a solution....not the EU.

 

 

 

 

[david555]

1 hour ago, DannyCarlton said:

It's because of the ramifications of creating a hard border, the EU proposed the backstop, an acceptable solution which would prevent a hard border. The British negotiating team saw the sense in that and agreed. Problem solved. At the present time there is no other solution to the many problems that the absence of a border and Britain not being in the customs union, would create.

 

So off Boris goes to Europe, puffing his chest out and bouyed by the Tory hardliners and his base (several of whom post on this forum) and declares, "Look you foreign Johnnies, I'm Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson Premier of Britain and ruler of all that I survey, we're leaving on 31st October with a deal but you can stick your ruddy backstop where the sun don't shine!" (grins nervously).

 

Merkel replies calmly, "OK Herr Pfeffel, what do you replace the backstop with?"

 

Boris' "Err ummm err well...I'm sure that we can find a solution in a couple of years"

 

It's completely impractical to have no border arrangements in place for the next 2 years if we leave the customs union. It's just a nonsense.

 

Quick as a flash, Merkel replied, "Pfeffel, you have 30 days", clicking her heels as she spoke.

 

Of course Merkel knew that he had nothing in his locker, far greater minds than his have spent 3 years scratching their heads over the same problem with only the backstop as a viable proposal. Impossible in 30 days, even 2 years was probably a stretch.

 

"OK", Boris replied enthusiastically thinking he had won a great victory, " Yes we can do this in 30 days!"

 

Merkel replied between gritted teeth, "No Pffefel, YOU can do this in 30 days". Stitched him up like a kipper.

 

Today Macron was less diplomatic. When Boris put his master plan to him to get rid of the backstop, Macron replied, "Do you think I'm a fool? Have a word with yourself Boris, you're an idiot, the backstop stays"

 

I wonder how Boris is going to spin this when he gets back to Tory central office.

 

So in answer to your statement, it's Boris who is the ostrich and Boris who needs to come up with a solution....not the EU.

 

 

 

 

It is already sold by the Torygraph as a victory as the E.U. is compromising ….lol they take the 30 days as compromise , while Merkel just meant it as SHOW !  "you can create a miracle solution ?...well you have 30 days to show it ….YOU show it " Just now the E.U. kicked the ball back in Boris Camp , and turned the goalpost around...

 

 Any one like a laugh , well here it is : Brexit latest Thorygraph version news: Major boost for Boris Johnson as Emmanuel Macron says Withdrawal Agreement can be amended  

 

 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/08/22/brexit-latest-news-boris-johnson-no-deal-irish-backstop/

 

The Thorygraph readers comments are even funnier:

 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/08/22/brexit-latest-news-boris-johnson-no-deal-irish-backstop/#comments 

 

[puipuitom]

10 hours ago, Sticky Wicket said:

As you may recall, thanks to the recalcitrance of one province, the EU treaty with Canada was significantly delayed by Belgium.

 

Just shows what a sh1tshow the whole EU is

In the UK one MP from one of the 651 constituencies, elected with at least ONE ( 1 ) vote more as the next candidate, can block or accept a proposal.

[puipuitom]

10 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

So what happened to the fact that the EU, 27 countries make joint decisions as you claimed the other day. As I stated the Germans pull the strings. Guess you were completely wrong.. again

You mean: got the allowance of the 26 others to give this proposal to Boris the Liar.

3 years not even a beginning of a solution the solve the border between the EU and the UK, and now, this Unlimited Lighness will find a solution in one month ? 

[puipuitom]

3 hours ago, Sticky Wicket said:

I think you need to re read your history books!

Nelson and Wellington stopped Britain becoming a republic.

After Bastille Day the French were trying to convert all countries into republics

Much as people hate the Royals they have helped shape the country into what it is now.

Some good Kings and Queens, a few rotters.

The story of England's history is a fascinating one, both religious & politically.

You should also do a bit of reading about the 100 year war!!

Read your own history:

The Napoleonic Wars (1803–1815) were a series of major conflicts pitting the French Empire and its allies, led by Napoleon I, against a fluctuating array of European powers formed into various coalitions, financed and usually led by the United Kingdom.

The wars are often categorised into five conflicts, each termed after the coalition that fought Napoleon: the Third Coalition (1805), the Fourth (1806–07), the Fifth (1809), the Sixth (1813), and the Seventh (1815)

Britain had already been at war with France following the resumption of hostilities resulting from the breakdown of the Peace of Amiens and remained the only country still at war with France after the Treaty of Pressburg. 

The Hundred Years' War was a series of conflicts waged from 1337 to 1453 by the House of Plantagenet, rulers of the Kingdom of England, against the French House of Valois, over the right to rule the Kingdom of France.

 

Behaviour of the English in Scotland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Massacres_in_Scotland and in Ireland....  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Ireland.

I cannot understand why these two nations do not use this situation finally to free themselves from English occupation. 

[david555]

33 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

In the UK one MP from one of the 651 constituencies, elected with at least ONE ( 1 ) vote more as the next candidate, can block or accept a proposal.

More even 1 vote could have decided a referendum like Brexit … 1 person as using simple majority …..unbelievable "democracy ", wile the example with that Canada treaty  was over 1 Belgian parliament ,not a province but a parliament existing out of many MP's this to correct the wording "Province" and was used to put pressure on the Federal government that time...

(this explaining for that poster you are replying too )

 

[david555]

So now Boris has the duty to find in 30 day's a solution of which the whole bunch of U.K negotiators couldn't find a solution for in 2 years+ …. So he is the genius from the U.K.   waw I learned something more today 

[Loiner]

So now Boris has the duty to find in 30 day's a solution of which the whole bunch of U.K negotiators couldn't find a solution for in 2 years+ …. So he is the genius from the U.K.   waw I learned something more today :cheesy:

It was the EU negotiators who didn’t want a solution over the past 2+years. Now their masters will tell them to make a deal. Boris can sit out more than 30 days.

Unless it’s advantageous to the UK and not solely about the red herring back stop, better we leave No Deal.

[tomacht8]

11 hours ago, nauseus said:

In record time too. Strange eh?

The UK got fast track VIP Service from the EU court.

And you complain about that?

The verdict is unilaterally positive for the UK.

 

[tomacht8]

16 hours ago, Mansinthe said:

I feel sorry for the scotch whisky industry and After eight chocolate ????

 

And cheddar cheese.. i quess prices for that stuff will go up in the EU ????

Do not worry about the cheese.

The UK imports a lot cheddar cheese from Ireland. If additional tariffs then come on the UK cheese, the Irish cheese will circulate in the EU tariff-free.

 

But I promise all Scots that I will buy a bottle of scotisch whiskey, but it will be more expensive. 

[Laughing Gravy]

8 hours ago, puipuitom said:

You mean: got the allowance of the 26 others to give this proposal to Boris the Liar.

3 years not even a beginning of a solution the solve the border between the EU and the UK, and now, this Unlimited Lighness will find a solution in one month ? 

I guess it must have touched a nerve. I don't see Boris going to Holland to negotiate anything. No need, Germany followed by France. the rest are just lap dogs who do as they are told. That is reality and the others actually believe they have a voice.

 

[Laughing Gravy]

9 hours ago, david555 said:

It is already sold by the Torygraph as a victory as the E.U. is compromising ….lol they take the 30 days as compromise , while Merkel just meant it as SHOW !  "you can create a miracle solution ?...well you have 30 days to show it ….YOU show it " Just now the E.U. kicked the ball back in Boris Camp , and turned the goalpost around...

 

 Any one like a laugh , well here it is : Brexit latest Thorygraph version news: Major boost for Boris Johnson as Emmanuel Macron says Withdrawal Agreement can be amended  

 

 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/08/22/brexit-latest-news-boris-johnson-no-deal-irish-backstop/

 

The Thorygraph readers comments are even funnier:

 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/08/22/brexit-latest-news-boris-johnson-no-deal-irish-backstop/#comments 

 

Don't worry the UK is leaving the EU, I wish you would start to accept it. Holland and the others who have had a an easy ride can start saving up to fill the huge whole left by the EU.

 

But like most remoaners on here they are not even from the UK. Astounding.

[david555]

4 hours ago, Loiner said:

It was the EU negotiators who didn’t want a solution over the past 2+years. Now their masters will tell them to make a deal. Boris can sit out more than 30 days.

Unless it’s advantageous to the UK and not solely about the red herring back stop, better we leave No Deal.

Correction …. the E.U. did not give in on a leavers demands … that is correct , nor they blinked , and will not do so neither on  31 October , so you could have it at your choice .

 

Unless.....unless your own politician decides different ,it is all up to who ever is in control in the U.K , not a clue who is that ….?

[david555]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Don't worry the UK is leaving the EU, I wish you would start to accept it. Holland and the others who have had a an easy ride can start saving up to fill the huge whole left by the EU.

 

But like most remoaners on here they are not even from the UK. Astounding.

"But like most remoaners on here they are not even from the UK. Astounding." 

 

 

No we are not , but we are from the E.U...…. that other part involved ..you know ? Proved again you think you are the only important one , hilarious such a ……..yes...…. arrogance

 

And don't worry , we accepted already longer your leaving.. but not that nagging trying to push your stubborn demands thru endlessly 

[MRToMRT]

11 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

It's because of the ramifications of creating a hard border, the EU proposed the backstop, an acceptable solution which would prevent a hard border. The British negotiating team saw the sense in that and agreed. Problem solved. At the present time there is no other solution to the many problems that the absence of a border and Britain not being in the customs union, would create.

 

So off Boris goes to Europe, puffing his chest out and bouyed by the Tory hardliners and his base (several of whom post on this forum) and declares, "Look you foreign Johnnies, I'm Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson Premier of Britain and ruler of all that I survey, we're leaving on 31st October with a deal but you can stick your ruddy backstop where the sun don't shine!" (grins nervously).

 

Merkel replies calmly, "OK Herr Pfeffel, what do you replace the backstop with?"

 

Boris' "Err ummm err well...I'm sure that we can find a solution in a couple of years"

 

It's completely impractical to have no border arrangements in place for the next 2 years if we leave the customs union. It's just a nonsense.

 

Quick as a flash, Merkel replied, "Pfeffel, you have 30 days", clicking her heels as she spoke.

 

Of course Merkel knew that he had nothing in his locker, far greater minds than his have spent 3 years scratching their heads over the same problem with only the backstop as a viable proposal. Impossible in 30 days, even 2 years was probably a stretch.

 

"OK", Boris replied enthusiastically thinking he had won a great victory, " Yes we can do this in 30 days!"

 

Merkel replied between gritted teeth, "No Pffefel, YOU can do this in 30 days". Stitched him up like a kipper.

 

Today Macron was less diplomatic. When Boris put his master plan to him to get rid of the backstop, Macron replied, "Do you think I'm a fool? Have a word with yourself Boris, you're an idiot, the backstop stays"

 

I wonder how Boris is going to spin this when he gets back to Tory central office.

 

So in answer to your statement, it's Boris who is the ostrich and Boris who needs to come up with a solution....not the EU.

 

 

 

 

I have to agree that was more or less my read as well. After the Macron joint statement (which was painful to watch) I was left with the impression that there's no way an election can be avoided now. Which brings the UK (they don't let me vote) to the sad choice of who does one hate more, Boris or Trotsky (I don't like him ;+). The next "Gov" will surely be a coalition again which to me means the second vote is coming (whichever of the two major parties get the most votes) . As the coalition would be based on one voting issue (B) the next government will be weak and disjointed and not politically reflective of the country needs (other than B) as a whole.



 

[DannyCarlton]

15 minutes ago, MRToMRT said:

I have to agree that was more or less my read as well. After the Macron joint statement (which was painful to watch) I was left with the impression that there's no way an election can be avoided now. Which brings the UK (they don't let me vote) to the sad choice of who does one hate more, Boris or Trotsky (I don't like him ;+). The next "Gov" will surely to be a coalition again which to me means the second vote is coming. As the coalition would be based on one voting issue (B) the next government will be weak and disjointed and not politically reflective of the country needs (other than B) as a whole.



 

Although a Labour voter all my life, I too have no time for Corbyn and his middle class gang of luvvies a.k.a. Momentum who have stolen the Labour party from the ordinary working man. Who represents us now? No one.

 

I think a degree of tactical voting is required in marginal cvonstituencies to prise the HOC from the alt right Tories.

 

Who willl form the new Government?

 

I can see the SNP making further gains in Scotland, possibly a clean sweep. Plaid Cumru in Wales? Possibly. I think that the party with most to gain is the Lib Dems who could do very well, I would probably vote for them. Who knows even Sinn Fein could make an appearance at Westminster, Jeremy and Gerry are bessie mates!

 

IF not a Lib/Lab coalition maybe a multi party coalition as in Germany, probably not a bad thing. Whatever the coalition, it would be pro remain or at least publically, pro confirmatory vote.

[soalbundy]

16 hours ago, St George said:

 

 

Gratitude is never irrelevant, nor is it time-barred.

 

Lest we forget...

Lest we forget....WW1, the stupidity of of humanity, Lest we forget can be seen on church walls everywhere and underneath "remember our fallen in WW2". The versailles treaty after WW1, the cause of WW2, was written largely by two American lawyers, Norman Davis and John Dulles.

[vogie]

11 hours ago, Victornoir said:

What am I doing here...

 

 

Non, I think Macron is saying 'mon amies, after the 31st of October you will all be paying more tax, and that will give the gilet jaunes something to riot about, and Boris is thinking 'I never thought he'd tell them.????

[BritManToo]

34 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

IF not a Lib/Lab coalition maybe a multi party coalition as in Germany, probably not a bad thing. Whatever the coalition, it would be pro remain or at least publically, pro confirmatory vote.

More likely to be a Con/Brexit coalition IMHO.