Bangkokians beware! Red light cameras start operation on Sunday

[Airbagwill]

one of the reasons that the road safety figures are so appalling is that those in charge for the last 30 or 40 years have not listens to the R/S scientists - or they are too dumb to understand the situation.

Just because you can drive a car, doesn't mean you are an "expert" (not my term) on road safety, any more tha you are a doctor because you have been in a hospital.

If you want to get an idea of how dumb the Thai authorities ae when it comes to road safety just look at the figures for the last 3 decades - and you know what read some of the "opinions" (not my term) expressed on Thaivisa - they are just as dumb and subscribing to ideas about road safety that nearly outleased the horse and cart.

The Thai authorities need to wake up and smell the coffee and ask them selves why their death rates are at least 10 times that of countries in the EU....maybe they'll put 2 + 2 together  and not make a coffin.

 

[Airbagwill]

4 minutes ago, scorecard said:

True of course but the holistic approach is not on the horizon so every little helps.

Every little DOES NOT help - this has been shown time ands again in Thailand you are ignoring the evidence that is a plain as the nose on your face.

Edited August 27, 2019 by Airbagwill

[Samuel Smith]

"Red light" cameras = yellow light cameras here in Chiang Mai.  Just a money earner.  Going through on yellow is not going to kill anyone, unless they jump the red light before green coming from the other way.  After lights turn red, there is a 3 second gap before the next light turns green.  Plenty of time for those passing through on yellow to clear the junction.  High death rates on roads here is due to cr@p driving.  Needs cops on patrol to catch those drivers, not automatic cameras.

[Airbagwill]

It seems most people are also talking about "cars" - e.g private 4-wheeled vehicles. Well they account for only 12% of ALL road deaths so how many of those are the result of Red light running in BKK....it is going to be minuscule.

[HHTel]

8 hours ago, shady86 said:

What happens if the traffic lights turn to red and the car is stuck at middle of intersection because of traffic?

Do not enter unless your exit is clear.  Just like a 'box junction'.

[Airbagwill]

3 minutes ago, Samuel Smith said:

High death rates on roads here is due to cr@p driving.

Put quite simply not the case. This is the outdated assumption made by most road safety "critics. Look at the "Safe System" to truly understand what is happening.

[Almer]

8 hours ago, Vacuum said:

Should be 5000baht. Red light jumpers are killers.

And i think they forgot to report 2 points, but how i ask do you send the penalty notice if there is no plate especially 2 wheels

[ThePioneer]

5 hours ago, bluesofa said:

The dozen or so I've noticed in Udon have the rear black lettering 'faded' out, but the front ones are perfect.

There was just one with the front plate faded as well.

The plates on my pickup are from 2016, the rear plate has completely faded while the front plate is same as new, and I have not done anything to them.

 

If I recall correctly, when i obtained the plates at the DLT they told me which one should go rear and which one front.

[Percy P]

8 hours ago, Ralf61 said:

and after that...?

Fine,fine fine .hope they have them on pedestrian crossing as well. And on footpaths to catch the M/C who ride on them. M/C are oblivious to  traffic laws they ignore them . 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Percy P

[Almer]

17 minutes ago, HHTel said:

Do not enter unless your exit is clear.  Just like a 'box junction'.

555 you will still be sat at the junction next week if you don't enter the box that is if the bloke behind hasn't got his machete out to you

[Percy P]

4 minutes ago, ThePioneer said:

The plates on my pickup are from 2016, the rear plate has completely faded while the front plate is same as new, and I have not done anything to them.

 

If I recall correctly, when i obtained the plates at the DLT they told me which one should go rear and which one front.

Well repaint it.and make it visable .It won't do it itself

[Almer]

25 minutes ago, Samuel Smith said:

"Red light" cameras = yellow light cameras here in Chiang Mai.  Just a money earner.  Going through on yellow is not going to kill anyone, unless they jump the red light before green coming from the other way.  After lights turn red, there is a 3 second gap before the next light turns green.  Plenty of time for those passing through on yellow to clear the junction.  High death rates on roads here is due to cr@p driving.  Needs cops on patrol to catch those drivers, not automatic cameras.

Automatic cameras do an admiral job as long as they follow up word will soon get around.  Now lets see speed cameras on the approach to check points, EU countries have mastered thus it is self funding and frees the police to deal with more interesting things, whilst travelling thro France earlier this year Mrs back seat driver who sits in the front spotted a policeman perched in a tree above the hard shoulder with 2 motorcycle police tucked away waiting to give chase, cmon  Thailand step up

[worgeordie]

The cameras should pay for themselves in the first  hour,IF drivers pay the fines.

1000 Thb fine for running red light,Vs 1800 Thb fine for not reporting TM 30 ????

as always they have their priorities right,it's more dangerous not knowing where we are.

regards worgeordie

[jaiyen]

8 hours ago, shady86 said:

What happens if the traffic lights turn to red and the car is stuck at middle of intersection because of traffic?

The camera takes 2 photos about a second apart, which proves the vehicle is moving. If you are stuck in the middle on red thats OK as the camera hasn't been activated.

[Almer]

10 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

The cameras should pay for themselves in the first  hour,IF drivers pay the fines.

1000 Thb fine for running red light,Vs 1800 Thb fine for not reporting TM 30 ????

as always they have their priorities right,it's more dangerous not knowing where we are.

regards worgeordie

Well if they want to know where we are, thats easy, if everybody obeys the red lights we will be sat in Bangkok, gridlocked as usual

[faraday]

1 hour ago, possum1931 said:

i am sure there is plenty of policemen on inactive duty that can collect the fines.

Brings warmth to my heart....

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Airbagwill said:

Every little DOES NOT help - this has been shown time ands again in Thailand you are ignoring the evidence that is a plain as the nose on your face.

No I'm not. The evidence of the urgent need for massive holistic reform is evident and is strong, you can trip over it all day, no doubt at all..

 

However I (like many others) know full well that a massive holistic review and massive re-organization of the whole subject is (unfortunately) very unlikely in the near future. And is there anybody visible who will kick and scream and demand a massive urgent overhaul, unfortunately sadly no.

 

So I repeat, every step forward counts. 

Edited August 27, 2019 by scorecard

[Seeall]

11 hours ago, NanLaew said:

You get a ticket.

 

This based on personal experience of entering a junction, going straight ahead as the light went to amber. A pickup coming from the opposite direction doing an illegal u-turn across my path made me brake hard and stop. By the time I exited the junction, the light was red and I was pulled over right there by one of the cops working the morning wallet-lightening scheme.

 

As I walked back to pay the fine, I noticed that the illegally-turning pickup that had made me stop unexpectedly was parked kerbside. It was a police pickup that was delivering the new shift of daylight robbers to the checkpoint.

It brings up an interesting point, you broke the law so you pay the fine....  but when the bus crashes at the end of the hill and ran over a lot of people and smashed property... ohhh it was the brakes fault.....

[Seeall]

4 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Has anyone seen what proportion of deaths injuries (serious and minor) or even collisions occur due to shooting red lights? I very much doubt if comprehensive figures seen exist....they just dreamed up the idea because it looks good.

You think Thais will pay a fine in the mail ha ha.... yearly road tax?   dont pay already... licence?  whats that then?  and whats that sign on the side of the road?  50?   THB 50 for?  must me som tam krub...

[quadperfect]

And they did this in phuket a few years ago. It stoped people for a month or two at the signal. Then i noticed everyone jumping again and its been that way ever since. Seems the camera lasts about a month. Then the batterys die .

 

[ChipButty]

Should earn a fortune in Phuket if they work, only yesterday I was approaching a set of lights that were about to change I had slowed down and stopped but 3 other vehicles then went through on red a potential disaster in the making given how people from the other side jump the lights before they have turned to green

[BobBKK]

It's ok they will be 'under maintenance' if they catch a big wig

[Morty T]

22 hours ago, doctormann said:

Where I am (Pattaya) there has been a rash of car owners spray painting their rear number plates so as to make them unreadable to the speed or red light cameras.  Probably the same in Bangkok.  The front plates are usually left alone for some reason.

 

So, if this catches on and plod does nothing about it, there won't be too many fines getting issued!

Same in Chiangmai, along with the ones that simply remove the rear plate. 

[asiaexpat]

Twenty years behind the world with these unreliable traffic cameras. Most place around the world have stopped using redlight cameras.

[Airbagwill]

4 hours ago, asiaexpat said:

Twenty years behind the world with these unreliable traffic cameras. Most place around the world have stopped using redlight cameras.

Here's an interesting article about Texas.......

"I [Justin Gallagher] co-authored with economist Paul J. Fisher, we examined all police-recorded traffic accidents for three large Texas cities over a 12-year period – hundreds of thousands of accidents. We found no evidence that red light cameras improve public safety. They don’t reduce the total number of vehicle accidents, the total number of individuals injured in accidents or the total number of incapacitating injuries that involve ambulance transport to a hospital." - https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/red-light-cameras-may-not-make-streets-safer/

[Airbagwill]

On 8/27/2019 at 9:21 AM, Vacuum said:

Should be 5000baht. Red light jumpers are killers.

the evidence would suggest that is not the case.

[Airbagwill]

19 hours ago, scorecard said:

No I'm not. The evidence of the urgent need for massive holistic reform is evident and is strong, you can trip over it all day, no doubt at all..

 

However I (like many others) know full well that a massive holistic review and massive re-organization of the whole subject is (unfortunately) very unlikely in the near future. And is there anybody visible who will kick and scream and demand a massive urgent overhaul, unfortunately sadly no.

 

So I repeat, every step forward counts. 

That a HOLISTIC solution is the only way means by definition that "step by step" doesn't work and has been repeatedly shown to fail.....the evidence is clear. It isn't even a matter perculiar to Thailand look at any country that has not adopted the holistic approach and you'll see a country with big road safety problems.

Edited August 28, 2019 by Airbagwill

[Airbagwill]

17 hours ago, Seeall said:

It brings up an interesting point, you broke the law so you pay the fine....  but when the bus crashes at the end of the hill and ran over a lot of people and smashed property... ohhh it was the brakes fault.....

so why do you think that is?

[NanLaew]

On 8/27/2019 at 2:29 PM, Airbagwill said:

Nonsense!

 

Firstly you can tax a car whilst living at any address - and there is no way of finding out where you have moved.

Secondly there is universal link between insurance, driver and road tax in Eu etc.

there is also legislation that compels the "owner" or usual user to inform the authorities who is driving - there is no such enforceable system in Thailand.

 

Anyone who has experience of Thai courts will know how incredibly inconsistent and incompetent they are and how the police carry out many duties (questionably) that should be handled by a court,.. 

you clearly have NO idea of how much admin and automation is involved in handing out and pursuing road fines

 

I don't know whether they photo number place of Driver - I've had one photo several years ago one the front number plate the driver could not be made out. If they photo the rear there is no chance of ID-ing the driver.

to use multiple cameras requires a hell of a lot more software and I very much doubt that even if they have it, it will work.

"Very much so or else there would be no point in taking the picture." precisely! No point whatsoever....

 

"If you pay the fine, it goes to coffers of the jurisdiction where any alleged offense took place. Not the police" - this is just assumption - even in the EU the law on this is varied and of course one needs a checkable system that registers this.

 

calibration - of course there's a system, but my point is it won't work and one needs a truly independent body to oversee this - nothing is set up.....just a casual contract with the suppliers - imagine trying to get that to court.

 

All this you seem so positive about requires several other aspects to be present - trained police, properly registered are, well-designed junctions with clear markings and admin that can cope (NO CHANCE!!)  and  several other aspects of road design and safety. 

 

 

Thailand's nabobs repeatedly try introducing single "cures" for the nation's road safety problems - none will show any significant improvement unless part of a holistic approach throughout the country............ The traffic light cameras will be a farce that falls into disuse or results in some minister losing face. Blame as ever will be put on the drivers just for the sake of kreng jai.

Well cut my legs off and all me shorty airbag!... apart from your misunderstanding of krieng jai, you knew ALL the answers ALL the time didn't you?

 

Thanks for playing anyway.

Edited August 29, 2019 by NanLaew

[Airbagwill]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

Well cut my legs off and all me shorty airbag!... apart from your misunderstanding of krieng jai, you knew ALL the answers ALL the time didn't you?

 

Thanks for playing anyway.

And after 2 decades working in Thai businesses and government offices I fully (as far as that's possible) understand Kreng Jai which is more than most expats.... and I guess this includes you as your comments suggest

however if you ever have a reasoned agumrn t to come back on road safety I would like to hear it ... although I think that too is doubtful as you have resorted to aspersions instead.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Airbagwill