BTS adds 27 more trains to serve Bangkok commuters

[Nyezhov]

I think the transit system here is fabulous compared to other places.

[josephbloggs]

3 hours ago, notasmartassknowitallfarag said:

Some of this money SHOULD be pumped back in based on the evidence above. 

Er.....isn't the story about how they've just pumped a ton of money in to increase the number of trains by over 50%?

And the "evidence above" is mostly inaccurate and / or posted by people who don't really use the BTS.  Those that do appreciate it.

[moe666]

I rode the Skytrain in 2000 great ride plenty of room a seat for everyone

[Bangkok Barry]

2 hours ago, lootarzoon said:

Come back from Paris, long trains every 2 or 3 mns.. Too good... 

 

On the subject of Paris, I find it amusing that London is trying to get Crossrail up and running, while Paris has had their version, the RER, for decades ????

[Just Weird]

On 8/29/2019 at 6:41 AM, notasmartassknowitallfarag said:

This must use these and more to increase the frequency of trains coming to stations, 

 

On 8/29/2019 at 9:50 AM, Bangkok Barry said:

I've just come back from Singapore, where the trains...run twice as frequently as the BTS 

The BTS could not be more frequent during the peak hours which is the only time that more frequency is required.  Currently trains arrive within a minute or two of each other, how much more frequent do you think that they could be?

 

Outside peak hours, by definition, more frequency than 5 or 6 minutes maximum is not required.

 

What has the frequency of Singapore trains got to do with Bangkok's BTS?

[Bangkok Barry]

15 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

What has the frequency of Singapore trains got to do with Bangkok's BTS?

 

Because their frequency, along with having longer trains, means that people aren't crushed together as they are on the BTS.  And trains most certainly do not run every minute or two on the BTS at any time.

[bkk6060]

1 hour ago, moe666 said:

I rode the Skytrain in 2000 great ride plenty of room a seat for everyone

Thanks for the update.

Yes sure, a lot of things have changed over the past 20 years...

[josephbloggs]

1 hour ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

Because their frequency, along with having longer trains, means that people aren't crushed together as they are on the BTS.  And trains most certainly do not run every minute or two on the BTS at any time.

Untrue, again.  Make valid criticism if you want, but don't make things up.

At it's very best the MRT in Singapore - on the busiest lines - has a two minute headway and that is as good as it can be.  It's about the same as the BTS.  At other times of the day it is 4-7 minutes depending on the line, again very similar to the BTS.  The trains are longer, but just as busy.

And at rush hour it gets incredibly busy, just like the BTS, and you are crammed in like sardines.  And guess what, in some carriages they took out all the seats!  Have you used it at rush hour?  You obviously haven't, it is absolutely no different to here or any other mass transit system in any other major city.    And look, in an article from a week ago people are moaning about the Singapore MRT after they added some more trains to the North-South and East-West lines.  The complaints sound familiar?  And the official saying when it's appropriate we'll let you know how we can improve. ...

 

"There is a project ongoing to look at the headway between the vehicles. Headway is the one that allows us to shorten waiting time. But for now, it is an ongoing project, and at an appropriate time, we will let you know."

Commuter Lionel Tan is among those looking forward to this. The 28-year-old accountant, who usually takes the East-West Line, said: "The trains seldom break down now, and that is a good thing.

"But they are still very crowded, especially during peak hours. There is no difference in that area. We still have to wait for a few trains to pass before we can board one." He hopes the shorter headways can be put into effect as soon as possible."

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/smrt-adding-12-trains-to-two-most-heavily-used-lines

[Bangkok Barry]

1 hour ago, josephbloggs said:

Untrue, again.  Make valid criticism if you want, but don't make things up.

At it's very best the MRT in Singapore - on the busiest lines - has a two minute headway and that is as good as it can be.  It's about the same as the BTS.  At other times of the day it is 4-7 minutes depending on the line, again very similar to the BTS.  The trains are longer, but just as busy.

And at rush hour it gets incredibly busy, just like the BTS, and you are crammed in like sardines.  And guess what, in some carriages they took out all the seats!  Have you used it at rush hour?  You obviously haven't, it is absolutely no different to here or any other mass transit system in any other major city.    And look, in an article from a week ago people are moaning about the Singapore MRT after they added some more trains to the North-South and East-West lines.  The complaints sound familiar?  And the official saying when it's appropriate we'll let you know how we can improve. ...

 

"There is a project ongoing to look at the headway between the vehicles. Headway is the one that allows us to shorten waiting time. But for now, it is an ongoing project, and at an appropriate time, we will let you know."

Commuter Lionel Tan is among those looking forward to this. The 28-year-old accountant, who usually takes the East-West Line, said: "The trains seldom break down now, and that is a good thing.

"But they are still very crowded, especially during peak hours. There is no difference in that area. We still have to wait for a few trains to pass before we can board one." He hopes the shorter headways can be put into effect as soon as possible."

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/smrt-adding-12-trains-to-two-most-heavily-used-lines

 

I bow to your greater knowledge and experience.

[robblok]

1 hour ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

I bow to your greater knowledge and experience.

That is a good thing because he is right and you are not. In my country the Netherlands I was crammed in trains and trams just like in the BTS in Thailand. Its the norm during rush our in many big cities not a Thai thing.

[gk10002000]

I was just in Bangkok last month for a few days. Man the BTS on the ASOK line was really crowded!  I remember years ago being able to sit down, enjoy a ride around the city, looking out the window.  It was now standing room only and they are literally at the point of needing "people pushers" to stuff people through the train doors just as they do in Tokyo.  Still beats the stand still car traffic down below on the streets, but even with a few more extra cars, I fear the system is going to become completely over loaded.  They may need so many train cars that it will be a continuous loop of carriages, or the next thing would be just a constant moving flat escalator similar to some of the walkways in the airport!

[gk10002000]

5 hours ago, moe666 said:

I rode the Skytrain in 2000 great ride plenty of room a seat for everyone

Yep fond memories of sitting down, looking out the window.  A fine way to spend a few hours traveling around the city on a given day, getting on and getting off as some sights to see looked intriguing.

[Nyezhov]

5 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

Yep fond memories of sitting down, looking out the window.  A fine way to spend a few hours traveling around the city on a given day, getting on and getting off as some sights to see looked intriguing.

I do it all the time. I'm just smart enough not to do that during rush hour.

 

I will tell you what does crowd the cars, especially on the mrt

. <deleted> falangs with giant backpacks strapped to their backs cramming themselves in the car so that you have your nose in their Deuter so that they can save a buck and go to the PetchaBerry station and jump on the ARL. Or vice a versa. Or going to hua lampang. Like dude and dudettes, when you get to the platform, take your freaking pack off. Well maybe spend a buck and take a cab you cheap idiot. And real backpackers don't carry deuters they carry ospreys. and furthermore, what the hell are you carrying and a 70 liter pack going to Thailand for god sakes. I Last six months on a 36 l. Learn to pack. Rant finished

Edited August 30, 2019 by Nyezhov

[Just Weird]

18 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 And trains most certainly do not run every minute or two on the BTS at any time.

Yes, they do, during peak hours.

[josephbloggs]

9 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

I do it all the time. I'm just smart enough not to do that during rush hour.

 

I will tell you what does crowd the cars, especially on the mrt

. <deleted> falangs with giant backpacks strapped to their backs cramming themselves in the car so that you have your nose in their Deuter so that they can save a buck and go to the PetchaBerry station and jump on the ARL. Or vice a versa. Or going to hua lampang. Like dude and dudettes, when you get to the platform, take your freaking pack off. Well maybe spend a buck and take a cab you cheap idiot. And real backpackers don't carry deuters they carry ospreys. and furthermore, what the hell are you carrying and a 70 liter pack going to Thailand for god sakes. I Last six months on a 36 l. Learn to pack. Rant finished

Couldn't agree more with you on that.  Inconsiderate beyond belief and I am embarrassed to be associated with it by virtue of my farangness.

And seriously why do you want to wear your luggage anyway?  Get a suitcase - they are marvellous inventions and they have wheels!

Edited August 31, 2019 by josephbloggs

[Nyezhov]

1 hour ago, josephbloggs said:

Couldn't agree more with you on that.  Inconsiderate beyond belief and I am embarrassed to be associated with it by virtue of my farangness.

And seriously why do you want to wear your luggage anyway?  Get a suitcase - they are marvellous inventions and they have wheels!

Packs are actually better for dudes like me that snowbird and take pics. A 36L osprey and a 24 osprey pack enuf for me for 6 months and are far easier to manage on local trips where I don't have to haul everything except camera stuff and a few days of clothes. 

 

But my mode is simple. When arriving at airport, take cab. When leaving, take cab. If I go to HL,or bus station and I'm not taking a cab, then upon entering platform, it's TOTFP. That means take off the f'in pack. They have carry loops (at least the high grade ones do) so one merely enters the train carrying ones pack in ones hand. Then one places it between ones feet out of people's way. Smaller than a suitcase.

 

If it isn't the falangs with their giant packs, it's Chinese with durian. Some folks ain't raised right.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 8/31/2019 at 2:53 AM, Nyezhov said:

 

 

I will tell you what does crowd the cars, especially on the mrt

. <deleted> falangs with giant backpacks strapped to their backs cramming themselves in the car so that you have your nose in their Deuter so that they can save a buck and go to the PetchaBerry station and jump on the ARL. 

 

I believe lately, at least on the Sukhumvit line, I've been hearing a recorded announcement on the trains advising folks to NOT be wearing their backpacks while onboard.  Never used to hear that before, so I'm thinking it's a relatively recent thing they're advising about.

 

 

[Nyezhov]

4 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I believe lately, at least on the Sukhumvit line, I've been hearing a recorded announcement on the trains advising folks to NOT be wearing their backpacks while onboard.  Never used to hear that before, so I'm thinking it's a relatively recent thing they're advising about.

 

 

You hearing has not failed you.

 

 

[MaxLee]

5 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

You hearing has not failed you.

 

 

Well you just put your backpack down between your legs to create space.

[mok199]

The wife and child and I rode a bus in BKK Saturday with wooden floors...time for an up grade

[ExpatOilWorker]

1 hour ago, mok199 said:

The wife and child and I rode a bus in BKK Saturday with wooden floors...time for an up grade

The 20 years old red buses will soon be the 30 years old white buses in Bangkok.

 

https://www.bangkokpost.com/learning/advanced/1033934/old-bangkok-buses-made-new-again-10-year-life-extension

[Nyezhov]

3 hours ago, mok199 said:

The wife and child and I rode a bus in BKK Saturday with wooden floors...time for an up grade

Meh for 15 baht its worth it for a few blocks.

[Dnyy]

7 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

Meh for 15 baht its worth it for a few blocks.

I think that's not the point.

[josephbloggs]

5 minutes ago, Dnyy said:

I think that's not the point.

I think it is. 

 

You pay 8 baht for a wooden floored bus - what do you really expect for that price? Pay more and you get a non wooden floor and aircon. 

 

Pay a bit more and you can use the Skytrain. 

 

For 8 baht you expect to be riding on modern fleets? 

[Lakegeneve]

On 8/30/2019 at 5:06 PM, Just Weird said:

 

The BTS could not be more frequent during the peak hours which is the only time that more frequency is required.  Currently trains arrive within a minute or two of each other, how much more frequent do you think that they could be?

 

Outside peak hours, by definition, more frequency than 5 or 6 minutes maximum is not required.

The BTSC does not run a frequency lower than 2.45 mins in peak hour, except for a brief period of 2.20 headways on the Suk line during the middle of the peak. No where in the world runs less than a 90 sec frequency and that is only done in Hong Kong and Shanghai. You cannot really run a metro line safely less than 90secs even with high frequency signalling. 

 

The main issued here is that the BTSC should have transitioned to 5 car operations (platforms are built for eventual 6 car operations) with these 2 new orders, but they didn't. They have always been 3-4 years behind the pax growth curve and unfortunately there is no compulsion in their concession agreement for the BMA to make them order new rolling stock ahead of pax growth. Their first order of 12 (4 car) CNR trains which arrived in late 2010 was needed 3 years earlier as overcrowding on the Silom line was dangerous at the time. BTSC then ordered 35 single Siemens cars to make the original 3 car sets , 4 cars. The last of these arrived in March 2013.

 

Ave daily pax in 2010 was 400k, this rose to 600K in 2014 and is currently over 750K going to 800K so one can see the rapid growth. When the full northern extension to Khu Kot opens next year, ave daily pax will be over 1m!

 

Basically, it is a profit vs expense decision that the private operator in making.

[Lakegeneve]

On 8/29/2019 at 8:57 AM, Searat7 said:

The real shame is with the MRT main line which is still operating the same 3 car trains since it opened in August 2004. They should combine an order with BTS as the carriages used are nearly identical. The MRT needs 5 car trains too. 

The MRT order 35 , 3 car Siemens sets in Sept 2017 for the Blue Line extension which was originally scheduled to open by the end of 2016!

 

Currently, 11 of those sets have been delivered and are operational. Another 5-6 should be operational by the end of Sept when the Blue line extension Phase 1 opens to Lak Song. The remaining rolling stock is due to be delivered by March next year when the full extension opens (Tao Poon to Tha Phra section). Likewise, BEM should have ordered 4 car sets but they only order 3 car sets. BEM also has a 4 min frequency in peak hour.

 

It is worth remembering that then BMCL (BEM) was first going to order new rolling stick on 2008 but had to defer an order due to debt restructuring issues. A subsequent order in 2011 was also delayed. Then BMCL (BEM) won the tender to run the MRT Purple line so in Nov 2013 they order 21 3 car sets for that line. And yet still no new order for the Blue line even though daily pax numbers had grown to 270k by 2015 and 360k by 2017 after the Purple line opened. 

 

[Just Weird]

7 hours ago, Lakegeneve said:

The BTSC does not run a frequency lower than 2.45 mins in peak hour, except for a brief period of 2.20 headways on the Suk line during the middle of the peak. No where in the world runs less than a 90 sec frequency and that is only done in Hong Kong and Shanghai. You cannot really run a metro line safely less than 90secs even with high frequency signalling. 

"The BTSC does not run a frequency lower than 2.45 mins in peak hour..."

It does, I've timed them several times, including this afternoon. From Onnut into town at 3.40pm today, exactly one minute after the train I just missed pulled out the next one arrived.

 

"No where in the world runs less than a 90 sec frequency and that is only done in Hong Kong and Shanghai".

What's that supposed to mean?  Nowhere in the world but HK and Singapore does?  Aren't those cities somewhere in the world?

[josephbloggs]

47 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

"The BTSC does not run a frequency lower than 2.45 mins in peak hour..."

It does, I've timed them several times, including this afternoon. From Onnut into town at 3.40pm today, exactly one minute after the train I just missed pulled out the next one arrived.

If there's one guy I wouldn't challenge on train stuff it is LG - he really knows his stuff.  I believe he explained once before that the frequency is not measured by how long after a train leaves that another one comes in, but rather the time between both of them leaving the same station.  In that case I can believe it is 2.20 / 2.45.

 

Quote

"No where in the world runs less than a 90 sec frequency and that is only done in Hong Kong and Shanghai".

What's that supposed to mean?  Nowhere in the world but HK and Singapore does?  Aren't those cities somewhere in the world?

I think he means only HK and Shanghai run a 90 second frequency, no where else does.

 

[Just Weird]

9 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

If there's one guy I wouldn't challenge on train stuff it is LG - he really knows his stuff.  I believe he explained once before that the frequency is not measured by how long after a train leaves that another one comes in, but rather the time between both of them leaving the same station.  In that case I can believe it is 2.20 / 2.45.

I think he means only HK and Shanghai run a 90 second frequency, no where else does.

The context and content of my comment does not need explanation, neither does it have to fit the explanation that he has allegedly explained once before!  

I can express what I see as the time between trains the way I experience it, particularly when, as far as most users are concerned, the time between trains is the time it takes for one to arrive after the next has left.  If you really want to wait until the arriving train leaves the platform just add on 30 seconds.

 

I think I know what he meant about HK and Singapore, I was simply pointing out the nonsense of his emphasis on "nowhere in the world doing that..." and then following it up with two countries that do exactly that!

Thanks.

[Lakegeneve]

4 hours ago, Just Weird said:

 

I think I know what he meant about HK and Singapore, I was simply pointing out the nonsense of his emphasis on "nowhere in the world doing that..." and then following it up with two countries that do exactly that!

Thanks.

Honestly, this is Just Weird!

 

All are welcome to correct, challenge or seek clarification and granted that expression can always be more clear. However, please, please, please at least quote correctly and get your cities correct! Otherwise, it seems just weird to reply?

 

What I wrote: "No where in the world runs less than a 90 sec frequency and that is only done in Hong Kong and Shanghai. You cannot really run a metro line safely less than 90secs even with high frequency signalling." The context of that statement was in reply to, "Currently trains arrive within a minute or two of each other"

 

What you quoted by me was; "nowhere in the world doing that..." then somehow you confused Singapore and Shanghai, "HK and Singapore,"

 

Anyway, the point about frequency or headway that you need to time it from the same objective point and the same event. Eg. stand at the front of the train and once the train comes to a stop time it from when the doors to when the next train train arrives, stops and opens it doors. Or just when the train comes to a stop. Point is, it needs to be the same point on the platform and the same event from one service to the next.

 

Many will rely on a perceived experience rather than an actual, object timing. This is where many make the mistake of thinking trains arrive quicker than they do. Most people use an experiential time from when one leaves the platform to when they see the next train arriving thus mistaking the timing and also missing the dwell time at the platform for unloading & loading. If you did this in Hong Kong in peak hour, the next train would literally seem to arrive 20-30 secs after the previous one has departed!